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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Mar 2016 : 04:20:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
For me phaerim were created as a living weapon against mages not a race content to enter voluntary isolation.
If so, they were created before the dragons' era. Elves weren't worth this much effort until later, it was the time of elder Creator Races. Since they fought with the Sarrukh, maybe that was the whole point, though not necessarily.
But if they are artificial, who made them?
Batrachi? The Phaerimm dont like water much... but then, could have designed this as a safeguard.
Or maybe... the Aearee? While the Phaerimm look like worms, they speak via wind control, move by flying when possible, even on short distance... |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2016 : 13:41:38
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
No reason why a lone elf couldn't have accidentally ended up on toril before the others and the batrachi saw a threat in this type of life form that others didn't thus they recreated phaerimm to hunt these humanoids and that's where the injecting stinger comes from
Oh and the batrachi lived on land (their ancestors were aquatic) so the liking or disliking water of phaerimm doesn't matter.
You're suggesting they saw a lone individual as such a threat that they created an entire race to hunt down the one guy and his absent kin, against the possibility of more of them showing up? |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2016 : 17:35:41
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
For me phaerim were created as a living weapon against mages not a race content to enter voluntary isolation.
If so, they were created before the dragons' era. Elves weren't worth this much effort until later, it was the time of elder Creator Races. Since they fought with the Sarrukh, maybe that was the whole point, though not necessarily.
But if they are artificial, who made them?
Batrachi? The Phaerimm dont like water much... but then, could have designed this as a safeguard.
Or maybe... the Aearee? While the Phaerimm look like worms, they speak via wind control, move by flying when possible, even on short distance...
In my version phaerim (Fae'rim) were created by Batrachi to battle fey creatures mainly eldarin, elves, gnomes, ... later they were also used against northern Sarrukh of Isstossefil who specialized in magic. Their movement can be described as swimming through air - a very handy ability to hunt down fey in the forest. I am not aware that it is stated somewhere that phaerim do not like water but it might be a safeguard as you said. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2016 : 10:52:28
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| I do not see the need for such far fetched story as this make sense to me without it. There is no clear information about creation of Phaerim. We could presume they are pretty old. Batrachi were one of the creator races as were Fey. They could be enemies very easily. Fey are magic heavy and physicaly frail. Phaerim uses dominated cannon foddder and their own magical abilities to defeat such foes that suggest a reason behind this tactics. They are not mammal, reptile or birds so Batrachi origin is feasible. They look like mutated large leeches that actualy supports this theory. Their known targets were Sarrukh studying magic and later Netheries - human magocracy. Both seems like similar targets. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2016 : 15:52:46
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| Both empire ended simultaneously due to appearance of Tearfall. Sarrukh empire was dwindling sooner but still existant and as Batrachi are water based I believe that they only came later to land and existed simultaneously with sarrukh in seas. GHotR only states rise of empire not creation of the race. End of Isstossefil might be the opening that won batrachi their ticket to land occupation as other empires of sarrukh already dwindled. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2016 : 14:21:08
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| as phaerims had been clearly present even before that there is no problem with inventing another appearance during rengarth migration. What have you in mind? |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2016 : 23:40:36
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Anyone care to speculate as to the arrival of the rengarth in the netheril basin?
Im wondering how many times is too many for the phaerimm to appear in history. I think i might have a history involving the rengarth
As to the arrival of rengarth: there were clear signs that even before netheril there were humans in those lands (-4300 realm of Thaeravel was founded). Depending on given origin story this migh be very near as population in Seventon seems to by only few villages. In my take they are the remnant of great migration from Endless wastes (later Tuigian territory) that got them through Unaproachable East lands (Narfell,Vaasa) and Moonsea into Netheril basin and most of them continued West to the North region. This could have easily taken century to cross as they had to move slowly and fight through a lot of enemies on the way. Given unhospitability of those crossed lands it could be understood why lot of those migrants continued further (I have also added their leader Urthgard who lead them in this exodus and who later ascended to godhood).
Therefore I would guess that those barbarians settling in Netheril basin arrived around year -4000 DR as around -3900 Nether the Elder was born. Timing nicely fits with Imaskari expansion following their abduction of Mulan slaves in -4300 DR (BTW I have just noticed that Imaskari were forced to this by terrible plague that decimated their own population). |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2016 : 00:01:18
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| I have also found mention in GHotR about settlement of the first wave of this exodus in Rashemen in -5000 DR naming this land and its people Rashemi after their chieftain Shemen and that they arrived from the East. This would however put start of this a thousand years back and it seems to me too long for this trip (those people will have no real memory about even a half of this trip) so for me this will be only a smaller precursor of the later migration or possibly a different tribe. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2016 : 22:00:51
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I have read some discussions here at candlekeep about different races and their migrations but it seemed too complicated to me. In my book almost all human civilisations started at first around middle of Faerun/Kara-Tur/Zakhara (same as dwarves) and spread to different directions. Planar settlers came at different spots and build from there (notably elves). Another exception were Calim and Memnon who lead colonists from Zakhara to later Calimshan and Imaskari who abducted Zakharan slaves for their Empire. Further down in history I have humans displaced by will of Sarrukh,Batrachi and dragons who used them as slaves for their empires also. So there should be some stock of humans around Istosseffifil left after its fall (Talfiric?) who could be a source for Thaeravel. All northern barbarians are of the same stock as I wrote above (there are too many striking similarities for me between western and eastern barbarians of the north to be only coincidence). They should migrate under the line of Great glacier at that time as there was minimal opposition to their movement. They are originaly all nomadic hunters with horses venerating nature gods and spirits.
Famous citadel is too great feat for those nomads and in my book it was created by giant empire there (same as Ironfang keep) to protect its people against dragons (it fits the time period and we know they had been able to build such things). |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2016 : 16:19:54
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I haven't noticed that you have asked about dwarves also... they could have settled nearby mountains even further in the past but Sarphil was located on the East of Anauroch. You mentioned that first contact with dwarves should be from Ascore's Western side of Netheril.
Oghrann was to the South where you mentioned your netheries haven't ventured for some time.
I am not sure if it is intentional but I like the similarity between house of Anarok and later name of Anauroch for this basin.
If I understand it right you are placing the origin of those barbarians on the West (Illefarn) side so you are using different version than mine. Than there will be also a different timing than I suggested.
As you have mentioned in Western heartlands were many elven and dwarven kingdoms that did not cooperated or used humans so there is hardly a place for them to live in easily (most of the area is forested=elven land). That is also a reason I used Eastern origin - there is much more space for other races to exist, multiply and migrate from. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2016 : 20:21:37
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So heres a question or two that im pondering.
How big is the basin that netheril occupied. I had a quick glance at the map in the arcane age boxed set and it looked like the narrow sea was 300 miles wide (ish), which i think is as wide as britain is long.
Do people consider that large for a lake, i think an area about the size of france is big enough for netheril. Im just trying to get an idea of scale for travel etc.
Can people check on other maps and let me know how big anauroch is pretty please (digital copies are poor for checking distances when they are split over many pages).
The next question is about horses. Do people think netheril had horses and why.
I can find a handful of mentions about horses in the netheril boxed set but that work lacked imagination. I think one of the reasons for flying enclaves could have been a transport issue and lack of horses might be the cause.
Horses are famed in the shaar, the hordelands, narfell. These are old breeds and well established. There are newer breeds in the dalelands etc but these lands have only been settled after the fall of netheril.
I have a quote of horse nomads from the vilhon reach settling in the sunset vale and that has me thinking whether the horse was introduced into the north after the fall of jhaamdath.
Elves and dwarves have little need for horses and they dominated the north until after netherils fall.
So working theory is horses came from imaskar lands. They were spread to the hordelanda and kara tur. Maybe imaskari or unther brought them to the shaar. Unther brought them to the vilhon reach. Jhaamdaths fall spread them north.
Of course they may have been multiple spreadings from small pockets (like humans) and so they could also have come from calimshan to jhaamdath and then north after its fall.
Thus the horse spread across faerun with human migrations but the north was one of the last areas.
Any thoughts. Any horsey themed quotes from history in the north? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2016 : 21:21:36
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I think one of the reasons for flying enclaves could have been a transport issue and lack of horses might be the cause.
I should think it would be easier to get a few horses than to lop off a mountain top and make it fly. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2016 : 21:48:33
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Yes but if you have no horses and no idea that they even exist then being able to fly is easier and faster than walking or sailing.
Even if you somehow have no idea that horses exist, there are still far more efficient means of transport than floating mountaintops. Gates, teleports, conjured/created flying critters, captured/modified existing flying critters, enchanted conveyances such as carts or wagons, etc... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2016 : 00:35:54
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Those barbarian tribes should at least know about horses as they came from eastern planes. It is interesting to note that as that migration continued west there are fewer and fewer horses used. It may be connected to colder climate but also to hunger :-)
As Netheril basin was green I do not see how they have not used some domesticated transport and work animals. There should be a decline as magic supported new areas of life even for commoners (especialy after Mythallars were invented) and at the hight of Netheril empire there are probably only very scant mentions of any non-magic activity.
Closest horse using nations are the Ride and orcs of Thar (I am not sure about West but there were elves mostly).
As Seventon was all around Narrow sea there was not much need for riding horses so possibly they used them only for work. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2016 : 11:38:19
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Do not forget that main advantage of Mythallar was a field powering quasi-magical items in vincinity. As it really cut the cost of those items almost everybody in Netheril could have had a magic wand, ring or trousers. Not only for combat but also Greater mage hand spell, levitation, (invisibility), those summoning spells, ... so their only problem is long range transport and there are far fewer who need that (merchant, clerics, entertainers).
BTW how would a teleport spell work if cast by quasi-magic item within one Mathallar with destination in another? Power for the spell is there so you should be able to cast it and on the other side there is another field so you can cast it back the same way... so even that should be dealt with by permanent communal teleporting circles within city proper.
So horses would be obsolete very soon and there is no need to restrict them from older eras of Netheril. There were places around from where wild horses could came from (even through elven lands) and I agree that rothe could be easily used as beasts of burden. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2016 : 23:43:55
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for me Weave is a power of creation made available to everybody. Current use is just a misunderstanding of original purpose it was made for. Mythallar is just a focus that intensify power in local level so it is possible to make stronger effects. I do not see why each Mythallar should be separate but it is your take of it.
As there were almost no rules regarding magic in that time I do not see how Mythallar could have made a change in that...
Horse migration make sense when it only declined over space of human (renghath) migration but it makes less change to delete them at all from certain areas. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2016 : 03:11:01
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
From the sounds of it people are none to thrilled with the idea of horse migrations mirroring people migrations and would rather they exist all across faerun
No, it's the idea that a lack of horses makes floating mountains the only viable alternative. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Topic |
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Reimagining Netheril
