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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2014 :  10:39:29  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well those restrictions would certainly stop all but the most determined from performing a ritual to cast the avatar spell.
Although from the sound of it velsharoon persisted and succeeded eventually (with a bit of help from talos)

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2014 :  10:59:35  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well i settled on the name of Morvault for Aumvor's floating bone castle (it contains the letter of Aumvor but in a different order so its just another way of saying Aumvor's Vault).

Put in some brief blurbs about the Ashwind Assassins, The Thespian's Guild, and The Farwalkers.

Also added in Phylornel and Buoyance as a kind of Jekyl and Hyde being that is possibly separated during The Fall when magic goes nuts.


I'm pretty much done now, unless anyone has any other ideas. The information in the Netheril Sourcebook wasnt all that bad, yes the numbers of orcs were way off and some of the dates were junk but with the latest information we have on the Sarrukh in the area and other developments it isnt wholly incompatible(just not very detailed about what Netheril itself was).


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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2014 :  12:32:12  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Well those restrictions would certainly stop all but the most determined from performing a ritual to cast the avatar spell.
Although from the sound of it velsharoon persisted and succeeded eventually (with a bit of help from talos)



Bear in mind, Velsharoon and Malyk (an ascended drow wild mage who was killed/absorbed by Talos after ascension with the portfolios of wild and destructive magic) both ascended not by taking over another active deity or its portfolio(s) in canon. Granted my own theories for Velsharoon involve him using the "Phylactery of Mellifleur" which he acquired after the ToT (and my belief that Mellifleur fell during the ToT and Ao didn't resurrect him nor redistribute his portfolio). Its my belief that his use of this extra "insurance" is why Talos wasn't able to pretty much immediately absorb him (unlike Malyk).

Its also my homebrew belief that Velsharoon was a triple classed wizard (no specialty), dread necromancer, binder (with levels in ultimate magi and anima mage) and that prior to his ascension he spent much time binding with the vestige of Karsus for no other reason than discussion (not only of the Karsus' Avatar spell, but also the discussion of what Karsus had researched of Mellifleur since its my homebrew belief that Mellifleur beat Karsus to the punch purely on accident... and possibly encouraged Karsus as a result).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2014 :  13:06:28  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well your version is much more interesting than canon so that is the one i use.

Just a typical deity sponsored ascension doesnt really make sense given the different areas of expertise for Velsharoon and Talos and doesnt explain why it took Talos so long to elevate someone to godhood or why he chose Velsharoon.

Yes Talos drains his sponsors and kills them in the end but any egocentric maniac is likely to want to be a god and would think they can find some way to beat Talos.

It makes it much better if Talos had enough of Malyk, but rather than use his own power to elevate Velsharoon he merely pointed him in the right direction to successfully cast a variant of the Avatar spell and maybe helped him pick which god to drain.


And just saying they ascension without any details as to how doesnt mean this isnt the way it happened anyway, and since i'm writing my own history then i can change the details to whatever i want so long as the end is the same (until the history gets daft after the 1370's when large chunks need throwing out)

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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1150 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2014 :  15:06:16  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As to your list of enclaves, I believe it's spelled Negarath rather than Negrath and Quesseer was located near the Sword Mountains (it's mythallar is most likely gone - taken when the enclave was abandoned).

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

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Edited by - hashimashadoo on 03 Feb 2014 15:07:19
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2014 :  15:15:48  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There we go Negarath, Quesseer, Lhaoda, Tith Tilendrothael, and the underwater enclaves all updated.

Is anyone able or willing to reveal anything about Negarath now. I know it is detailed in a novel which i dont have.

All i can gather from it is that Barze fled the enclave before the fall so it may have fallen sometime before -339 DR and i believe its fate was left open so there may be something interesting about it but i have no idea what is actually known about the place.

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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1150 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2014 :  17:19:40  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's in Depths of Madness by Erik Scott de Bie so I guess he'd be the one to ask. I know he calls it the 'upside down city' but I don't own the book.

The Sage put all the lore Erik gave him on the place in his FAQ but gods know if we'll ever see the thing

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

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Edited by - hashimashadoo on 04 Feb 2014 18:50:31
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2014 :  19:11:48  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well looks I will have to wait for the sage endless to do list to get round to releasing his FAQ.

It would be nice to get as complete a list of enclaves and archwizards as possible. At the moment I am combing all the sources for random mentions of netherese archwizards in random lore snippets from my expanding archive.

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Asharak
Learned Scribe

France
267 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2014 :  20:16:18  Show Profile Send Asharak a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I believe there's also an Enclave crashed in the dephts of Korinn Archipelago, but I don't remember from which source it come from...

"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"

Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue.
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1150 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2014 :  20:41:48  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lost Empires did say that there may be an enclave there but it's not named, neither is it confirmed.

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

Head admin of the FR wiki:

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/

Edited by - hashimashadoo on 04 Feb 2014 20:45:11
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1150 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  08:39:36  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just looked at your updated enclaves list dazzler. Quesseer was not the same place as Old Owl Well, they were just located in close proximity.

Also, I forgot to mention the enclave of Kolthunral, which is detailed on p218 of the Neverwinter Campaign Setting (it currently (1480 DR) flies about in the Shadowfell).

There's also Hlaungadath from the novel Condemnation but I can't recall whether it was an actual enclave or not. It's ruins were located in Northwest Anauroch about 40 or 50 miles from either the Nether Mountains or the Graypeaks.

And finally there's Undrentide from the Neverwinter Nights games. Its canonicity is of course debatable but it was included on the map of enclaves on p32 of the Grand History.

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

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Edited by - hashimashadoo on 05 Feb 2014 09:15:57
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  09:29:48  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm pretty sure Quesseer is in the same spot that would become old owl well.

The blurb states Quesseer was Netheril's attempt at building a spy outpost but unbeknownst to them it was built atop a sarrukh ruin that contained a chardalyn cache guarded by a deepspawn that was responsible for the owlbears in the region.

Then in the various blurbs on old owl well it states that many centuries ago a netherese outpost was stationed here.

Settlements are usually built atop the ruins of old so i would imagine they are in pretty much identical spots.



As for this 4th edition enclave (already i'm finding myself not liking the enclave but i cant quite put my finger on it as to why). Do we know any history about Kolthunral. Is it new or old. If it is old how did they manage to get it flying again, and how did it get into the plane of shadow?


You are indeed right about Hlaungadath. Its blurb states it was once an independent human city and remains largely intact which implies that it was ground based, but in a 3rd edition blurb about the frozen sea it has "Hlaungadath (a crashed Netherese floating city).

So it looks like there are a few more to add to the list. Although i cant say im taken with yet another enclave fleeing to the plane of shadow, that just doesnt tie in with the history or lore of Netheril at all (quite normal for 4e then)

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  09:40:54  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I also found a very early mention of the Bedine, just a throw away reference to a Bedine tribe in 570 DR.

So somewhere between 329 DR (fall of Hlondath) and 570 DR, the Bedine arrive from xxxx (i cant remember if its Zakhara, Al Qadim, Kara Tur, or somewhere else) and establish themselves in the Sword region of Anauroch.

Although it is conceivable that the Bedine arrive before the Survivor States fall and have been living in the desert of the Sword for quite some time. After all the survivor states only last so long because they lived in that sheltered area between the Scimitar Spire and the Desertsmouth Mountains which would have slowed the spread of Anauroch for many centuries (6 centuries in fact).

The Hidden Forest and the Shoal of Thirst/Shadow Sea was probably dried up by 0 DR so the Bedine could have arrived anytime after -339 DR without being noticed.

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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1150 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  10:31:09  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, I wasn't looking at Lost Empires in regard to Old Owl Well. That does indeed make certain that it and Quesseer are one and the same. However, looking over all the sources Quesseer seems to be invariably described as less an enclave and more an outpost.

As for the Bedine, they came from Zakhara.

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  10:43:18  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Given that enclave was originally only applied to flying outposts that would be a sensible decription of it.

However later we had water based enclaves and then land based enclaves.

Given how i think Netheril actually worked (with the archwizards and their enclaves entirely independent; from a ruling perspective, of the nation of Seventon), the term enclave actually applies to any settlement created and funded by one or more archwizards.

This means the settlement is not part of Seventon, it does not pay taxes to them, it does not derive support from them, and is not considered part of that nation by the democratic council of Seventon (although nearby nations may disagree).

So that way we can have land based, sea based, subterranean based, and flying based enclaves. As long as it serves an archwizard and not Seventon then it's an enclave.

And of course each archwizard was independent of the others (although most followed Ioulaum's and later Karsus' lead for very different reasons).

But thats just my take on it and the only way i can see Netheril functioning given the lore we have on it.

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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
955 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2016 :  18:25:09  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, about Mystra, Mystryl, and her starting out as an arcanist.
Ed said that in his Realms, Lurue is the goddess of magic, and most powerfull entity, combining more or less the roles of Mystra and Ao.

Ed said TSR asked him to create a more "human" goddess, as Lurue was to bizarre being non-humanoid.

Curiously, Ed said Lurue was the goddess of MAGIC not the Weave. That's why some scribes here suggested Lurue might have been the goddess of Magic before the creation of the Weave.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2016 :  19:56:25  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You forgot to cast thread necromancy.

Well given that Netheril is way back in the past we have a different pantheonic structure then than exists in modern it is more than likely that mystryl was the netherese deity of the magic/weave while lurue was probably just a beast cult of magic for either the ulou or the talfir and possibly a mixture of both. Not that it matters. Only as the pantheons merged did a single deity of magic come into being but the weave was probably always there and I'm going with the line that it gained sentience only around the dawn of the mythallar age.

Not only that but there is no reason why you cannot have a separate deity of magic to the deity of the weave. They are two different but linked concepts and just as there is a deity of knowledge and a deity of learning.


However all of this is moot to me. I have moved away from dealing with deities at all. All those rules that apply to deities and all that mythology associated with them can instead be applied to the religions and turned into a story later for the masses.

So you can only have a demigod deity with the same portfolio as another god in the same pantheon not because of some overgod rule but because the stronger religion inside the area it controls is not going to allow a rival religion to appear inside its sphere of influence and steal its worshippers. While the smaller upstart religion is too small to be noticed (a single temple and a few shrines) then it survives. Once it gets too big then the larger religion destroys or absorbs it.

Lurue, Mystra, Corellon, Ishtar, etc. All exist in the same planet not because of pantheonic boundaries but because their religions are separated by race or geography. Humans and other humanoid races are unlikely to worship one another's deities because of the racial/cultural boundary so they leave each other alone for now (as elves and humans cooperate more then it is likely they will understand one another more and conflict becomes more likely as converts increase on both sides). Ishtar and Isis and Mystra are separated by geography and cultural differences not by pantheonic divides. Finally Lurue's religion survives because it is localised in the high forest (and because Lurue is an actual physical being) and possibly because one religion has sworn allegiance to the other or has a historic pact of non-interference.

There are other aspects of the deific soap opera I could rationalise into religious intrigue but basically I no longer refer to deities anymore because they are so far removed from the material plane that there is little point in involving them.

Just my take though.

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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
955 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2016 :  13:52:55  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I taken aparently a level in thread necromancer XD

Interesting ideas, but about Lurue seeing how elves had a specific name for her(Yathaghera), her being an Archfey, and statements elves worshipped the "Faerie Gods" Before Seldarine, Lurue might have been a goddessarchfey of magic worshipped by green elves first then by humans. Or by both humans and green elves, or by LeShay. She even had her temple on Evermeet.

Edited by - Baltas on 18 Mar 2016 13:56:41
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe

Czech Republic
605 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2016 :  16:48:20  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

You forgot to cast thread necromancy.

Well given that Netheril is way back in the past we have a different pantheonic structure then than exists in modern it is more than likely that mystryl was the netherese deity of the magic/weave while lurue was probably just a beast cult of magic for either the ulou or the talfir and possibly a mixture of both. Not that it matters. Only as the pantheons merged did a single deity of magic come into being but the weave was probably always there and I'm going with the line that it gained sentience only around the dawn of the mythallar age.

Not only that but there is no reason why you cannot have a separate deity of magic to the deity of the weave. They are two different but linked concepts and just as there is a deity of knowledge and a deity of learning.


However all of this is moot to me. I have moved away from dealing with deities at all. All those rules that apply to deities and all that mythology associated with them can instead be applied to the religions and turned into a story later for the masses.

So you can only have a demigod deity with the same portfolio as another god in the same pantheon not because of some overgod rule but because the stronger religion inside the area it controls is not going to allow a rival religion to appear inside its sphere of influence and steal its worshippers. While the smaller upstart religion is too small to be noticed (a single temple and a few shrines) then it survives. Once it gets too big then the larger religion destroys or absorbs it.

Lurue, Mystra, Corellon, Ishtar, etc. All exist in the same planet not because of pantheonic boundaries but because their religions are separated by race or geography. Humans and other humanoid races are unlikely to worship one another's deities because of the racial/cultural boundary so they leave each other alone for now (as elves and humans cooperate more then it is likely they will understand one another more and conflict becomes more likely as converts increase on both sides). Ishtar and Isis and Mystra are separated by geography and cultural differences not by pantheonic divides. Finally Lurue's religion survives because it is localised in the high forest (and because Lurue is an actual physical being) and possibly because one religion has sworn allegiance to the other or has a historic pact of non-interference.

There are other aspects of the deific soap opera I could rationalise into religious intrigue but basically I no longer refer to deities anymore because they are so far removed from the material plane that there is little point in involving them.

Just my take though.



For me this next level of intrigue (diefic soap opera) is fascinating and also represents to me the only force that think globaly instead of localy. Also if you do not wish to remove gods as active minds completely you are just ridding yourself of their avatars that for me is solved by saying that most of the time they have better things to spend their power on. I am also against direct intervention of gods in common problems of people - like it is so often used in adventures "god xy has pointed you in that direction with his mighty finger..." and moved them into the realms of dreams and visions by priests (so the priest will hire you based on his vision and tell you where he thinks you should go).
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe

Czech Republic
605 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2016 :  17:02:26  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And to add some thoughts for you - I have concluded that phaerim are actualy very old weapon of Batrachi against elves on west coast. Their name was told to Netheries by their elven allies and is originaly elven Fae'rim - bane of fey. They have been hybernating in their underground complex since their defeat by Sarrukh. When Netheries explorers broke into the caverns and awaken them they were enslaved by phaerim and they told them everything about Netheril. As their purpose was to destroy physicaly weak magicaly active beings this was their new goal as they haven't received any from their old masters.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2016 :  17:22:29  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can't deny that at one point the gods and their intrigues were of interest to me as well. Then things started to get a bit silly with Cyric and his destruction of Zhentil keep, then the whole shar nonsense of 3e, then finally the infantile godly manoeuvrings that kicked off 4e. The more godly stuff they put into the realms the more I found I disliked the realms.

The priests of the realms became little more than puppets and pale imitations of their gods with no minds or control over their own lives. All Cyric priests were chaotic zealots and as mindlessly destructive as their god. The priests of mask were no longer allowed the fight against one another because mask lost that portfolio. The mindless loonies of lolth that behaved like infantile emotionally stunted homicidal maniacs just to please their like minded goddess.

Then it got even worse with mielikki demanding all orcs be slaughtered because they are all evil. Chosen running around like an ants nest full of them had just landed on faerun.

I decided I could rerationalise faerun to be exactly the same but without any gods. It works better for me as a dm and for my own logic. If it doesn't work for you then stick with what is out there, I'm working on an alternate version where things are the same and yet different at the same time.

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Wrigley
Senior Scribe

Czech Republic
605 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2016 :  20:15:20  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I can't deny that at one point the gods and their intrigues were of interest to me as well. Then things started to get a bit silly with Cyric and his destruction of Zhentil keep, then the whole shar nonsense of 3e, then finally the infantile godly manoeuvrings that kicked off 4e. The more godly stuff they put into the realms the more I found I disliked the realms.

The priests of the realms became little more than puppets and pale imitations of their gods with no minds or control over their own lives. All Cyric priests were chaotic zealots and as mindlessly destructive as their god. The priests of mask were no longer allowed the fight against one another because mask lost that portfolio. The mindless loonies of lolth that behaved like infantile emotionally stunted homicidal maniacs just to please their like minded goddess.

Then it got even worse with mielikki demanding all orcs be slaughtered because they are all evil. Chosen running around like an ants nest full of them had just landed on faerun.

I decided I could rerationalise faerun to be exactly the same but without any gods. It works better for me as a dm and for my own logic. If it doesn't work for you then stick with what is out there, I'm working on an alternate version where things are the same and yet different at the same time.



I have been watching your perspective here at Candlekeep for some time and I think we have very similar reasoning. That is why I am trying to explain my thoughts here as I believe it is sad that you removed big part of the realms due to new development. I too have stopped my Realms before Spellplague and I am creating my version from that time. ToT was not very nice to Realms and their gods especialy but I have found a reason for it in deep history with a little touch it make sense.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2016 :  21:39:58  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Excellent news then, I'm always open to a deep discussion on any aspect of the realms especially one as troublesome as religion. If you are persuasive enough I might even amend my ideas. Although a new thread might be more appropriate than muddling this one.
And don't get me wrong I have no intention of completely removing the gods. Lathanders avatar did appear and fight sammaster (the only accurate depiction of deific interaction I have read in realms fiction I can think of. Sammaster through every ancient magic he knew at that avatar and succeeded only in drawing a few drops of blood).
I have boiled down the gods to their most basic substance (belief) and created a whole rule system justifying their existence and interaction (none of this portfolio stuff that's just mistaken human interpretation). A god is pure belief, sustained and powered by belief. That is why mortals are so important and why they cannot be controlled by the gods (contrary to the recent depictions) because without free will there can be no belief.

But like I say start a new thread and let's get a big discussion going (probably one that will get derailed I don't doubt but worth a try anyway).

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TBeholder
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2378 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2016 :  11:21:18  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

And to add some thoughts for you - I have concluded that phaerim are actualy very old weapon of Batrachi against elves on west coast.

Didn't the Sarrukh fight against the Phaerimm somewhere at the Northern side of what became Anauroch by adding water (which gave them ideas), which they overdid, swamping the whole place enough that they were unable to stay there themselves?

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Then things started to get a bit silly with Cyric and his destruction of Zhentil keep, then the whole shar nonsense of 3e, then finally the infantile godly manoeuvrings that kicked off 4e. The more godly stuff they put into the realms the more I found I disliked the realms.
The priests of the realms became little more than puppets and pale imitations of their gods with no minds or control over their own lives. All Cyric priests were chaotic zealots and as mindlessly destructive as their god. The priests of mask were no longer allowed the fight against one another because mask lost that portfolio. The mindless loonies of lolth that behaved like infantile emotionally stunted homicidal maniacs just to please their like minded goddess.
Then it got even worse with mielikki demanding all orcs be slaughtered because they are all evil. Chosen running around like an ants nest full of them had just landed on faerun.

In other words, in 3e times the quality of writing rolled downhill and then into the swamp. The most obvious symptom of which being "everyone acting like idiots".

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Wrigley
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Czech Republic
605 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2016 :  18:19:44  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder


quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

And to add some thoughts for you - I have concluded that phaerim are actualy very old weapon of Batrachi against elves on west coast.

Didn't the Sarrukh fight against the Phaerimm somewhere at the Northern side of what became Anauroch by adding water (which gave them ideas), which they overdid, swamping the whole place enough that they were unable to stay there themselves?


Yes they were fighting with Sarrukh. It is said that Sarrukh have routed the narrow sea onto phaerim and that resulting change of climate did end their rule. Also there is said that remaining Sarrukh lords hid themselves under protective barrier similar to sharnwall that phaerim cannot penetrate.
As phaerim in this theory are batrachi origin (water) they could not be drowned by narrow sea but I believe they had a base underwater which was opened to attacks this way and phaerims had to retreat underground. They were quite happy with later result and went hybernating as their task was done.
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2016 :  19:40:37  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I went a different tac with the phaerimm. I left them as an end stage in magical evolution that were "constructed" by the imaskari and the sarrukh (and batrachi if you like) in the same way that humans are constructed from apes.

I did this for several reasons. First because I have great respect for the work of Eric Boyd and George krashos and many other greats that first proposed that origin for the Sharon and phaerimm (and them being two sides of the same coin).

The second reason for doing so is that the phaerimm are voracious in their hunger for magic (probably because it was required for them to live, the netherese abuse of it seemed to starve them and threaten their existence which led to war). When the fought the sarrukh for control of the nether scrolls it led to the near destruction of one or both empires. When they fought the netherese it devastated an area as large as Africa, and they were only stopped by the intervention of an equal magic power that imprisoned them inside anauroch (although my version differs as to who imprisoned them). Finally when they did escape they immediately ran amok draining mythals and enslaving people.

These are not the actions of a race content to enter voluntary isolation, therefore the reason they were confined to the anauroch basin when istosseffifil fell is because the couldn't escape. For me that is because they are extraplanar creatures and those phaerimm not drowned by an underground tsunami were trapped in their extra dimensional home with the portal leading to faerun being blocked (filled with water) so they couldn't return.

The actions of the netherese reopened the portal and allowed them to return. The magic excess of the netherese then made the phaerimm sick and started a war.

But that's just my take

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Wrigley
Senior Scribe

Czech Republic
605 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2016 :  06:36:06  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Well I went a different tac with the phaerimm. I left them as an end stage in magical evolution that were "constructed" by the imaskari and the sarrukh (and batrachi if you like) in the same way that humans are constructed from apes.

I did this for several reasons. First because I have great respect for the work of Eric Boyd and George krashos and many other greats that first proposed that origin for the Sharon and phaerimm (and them being two sides of the same coin).



Could you explain the relation of phaerim and sharn? I haven't found any origin for phaerim so I made one up but sharn are mierytar mages fused together by their own ritual, formerly dark elves.
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2016 :  09:27:58  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well if I understand other writings correctly those that truly seek ultimate power inevitably end up altering their own frail form in an effort to achieve that goal.
The mages of house orogoth sought to become dragons. Many mages try to achieve lichdom. Ioulaum became an elder brain. There are many possibilities.

The Sharn are one such route and are in essence the end stage of that route. When you have become Sharn there is no further transformation or improvement possible. You are at the pinnacle. My own thoughts is that Sharn are a fusion of multiple beings into multiple beings to create a node like network capable of channeling, sustaining and even creating it's own weave like magic.

The phaerimm are another of these end routes. Once you reach phaerimm form you can go no further. I like to think the phaerimm are the end point of augmenting your body physically to remove its frailties (either by incorporating parts of better creatures or by magically enhancing existing parts) until the end result is a being that parasitises the weave, magic, and other life forms for its own power.

Of course this means both the phaerimm and Sharn could and have been created multiple times in isolation throughout history and each time those results would be independent and slightly different (that's why I created a new Sharn race in netheril separate from the miyeritari Sharn, one that fought and contained the phaerimm).

There is a passage in one of the volo guides about an ancient homeland of the Sharn and phaerimm now gone (and they were at war). We have rumours of netherese turning into phaerimm and Sharn. We know the phaerimm were products of the sarrukh and the imaskari.

In short they are unrelated from a racial standpoint but they are part of the same process.

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Wrigley
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Czech Republic
605 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2016 :  19:42:20  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Do you have a resource for creation of phaerim by imaskari and sarrukh?
About this evolution theory - you sound like a Bene Geserit witch but that is from another world...
For me phaerim were created as a living weapon against mages not a race content to enter voluntary isolation. Hybernation might be just their reaction to a bad situation. It might also be a control mechanism by their creators. I imagine their original form to be some big leech that has been given sentience and magical abilities.
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2016 :  20:10:10  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure what a bene gesserit is or if that's a compliment but life has been good to me lately so I will assume it is.

I believe the creation by sarrukh and imaskari is spread across numerous sources. Grand History of the Realms probably has a reference to the imaskari or sarrukh creating them. Lost Empires of Faerun likely has another reference. The article by George Krashos (Lord of the End of Everything) is my definitive guide to all things phaerimm. The beauty of the phaerimm (and many magically created races) is that they can be created multiple times by multiple races and not conflict with history.

The batrachi came after the sarrukh and so its entirely likely that through the baet'ith they learned of how to make the phaerimm and recreated their own version (maybe with gills or a few extra tentacles) of the phaerimm that infested the Inner Seas before the Tearfall annihilated them (except for a rare few trapped deep at the bottom of the Sea of Fallen Stars).


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