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 SPOILER!Are you tired of Errtu Getting Banished
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Berkthgar
Learned Scribe

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  13:38:10  Show Profile Send Berkthgar a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Okay so errtu was twice banished by drizzt and once by tiago. Wouldn't be a nice change if maybe errtu captured drizzt like wulfgar. Then ingenious drizzt, and somehow guen comes outta no where with the blessing of meiliki to help drizzt escape.

Or what if drizzt really is favored by lloth? and lloth saves drizzt?

What say you all?

“Change is not always growth, but growth is often rooted in change.
Drizzt Do'Urden”

hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1114 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  13:56:47  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage  Click to see hashimashadoo's MSN Messenger address Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As I was reading The Last Threshold I had exactly this thought. Errtu seems to get pwned far too often for a supposedly powerful balor with his own realm in the Abyss.

Considering Drizzt nearly died at the hands of a Malebranche in Neverwinter, how come Drizzt finds a Balor so easy? It can't be just the magic of Icingdeath, can it?

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

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Edited by - hashimashadoo on 10 Dec 2013 13:59:03
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  14:04:07  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think in 5e, traveling carnivals (in Faerûn) should have a game called 'Banish Errtu'. EVERYONE can play!

You summon Errtu and have him sitting in a pentagram. Then people get to shoot arrows at a target (or throw things, whatever) and if they get a bullseye, it sets off the banishment spell and they win a plushy Cthulhu (or some-such).

Can you imagine Errtu getting summoned for the umpteenth time, and be like, "OH! Come on!"

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Berkthgar
Learned Scribe

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  14:05:01  Show Profile Send Berkthgar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wonder what errtu's status is in the abyss, after getting banished so many times. He doesn't live up to his reputation.

Who are the tanari's greater that him?
Glaberzoo? (the one with the pincers, forgot how t spell

“Change is not always growth, but growth is often rooted in change.
Drizzt Do'Urden”
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1114 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  14:12:24  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage  Click to see hashimashadoo's MSN Messenger address Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Glabrezus are supposed to be lesser in rank to balors. Errtu attacked Bryn Shander with a couple of them so he still has command over them.

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

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http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com
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Tetra_koiwai
Seeker

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  18:23:46  Show Profile  Visit Tetra_koiwai's Homepage Send Tetra_koiwai a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah I don't like it either, I mean maybe he just is rolling ones or actually he's making terrible mistakes when trying to find drizzt. If he actually planed something out rather than just showing up everytime trying to kill everyone and everything he might actually be pretty hard to kill.
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe

Portugal
488 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  18:35:19  Show Profile Send Tanthalas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
His last banishment by Tiago was simply silly.

At the end of Charon's Claw we got that awesome cliffhanger with Errtu saying his banishment was at an end and then in The Last Threshold he didn't even met Drizzt and confused Tiago with him? /sigh

Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage".
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Tetra_koiwai
Seeker

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  18:42:21  Show Profile  Visit Tetra_koiwai's Homepage Send Tetra_koiwai a Private Message  Reply with Quote
well in all honesty Errtu is kinda lame for a balor. I mean wouldn't a balor be far more crafty and think about things more? Sure he wants to drag you into the abyss and violate you till the end of time but of course he's going to do it in a safe way with a few failsafes so he doesn't end up waiting another hundred years thinking about what he did wrong.

I think lolth favors Jarlaxle. He's my favorite drow.
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore

1221 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  18:47:00  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Asmodeus's Homepage Send Chosen of Asmodeus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just have to imagine Errtu is the laughing stock of the abyss at this point, assuming he was ever anything but. He was an incompetent, nonthreatening villain in The Crystal Shard, and ended up the same way in The Last Threshold.

In regards to the abyssal hierarchy, balors are generally the most powerful demons short of demon lords, though as the abyss is a place of chaos, any individual demon can attain greater levels of power(generally represented by a dm giving a demon class levels and/or templates). Out of the box, though, I believe klurichirs are the only standard demon that's more powerful than a balor, though on the meta level, they didn't exist at the time Errtu was introduced.


"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress

Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.

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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1384 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  18:50:39  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Errtu has been used too much. We don't really need to hear from him for a few more centuries. ;)
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Tetra_koiwai
Seeker

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  19:13:00  Show Profile  Visit Tetra_koiwai's Homepage Send Tetra_koiwai a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would like to see more Graz'zt. The Abyss has the means of showing up on the prime via abyss cist (I think their called that) Shar looked as if she lost her mind during the Godborn book, so It's possible Rhylaxli would try to seize the Shadowfell for herself and thus take over the "shadows" area of Shars divinity, It would seem far more natural to me. As for Grazz't I mean you have a perfectly good and interesting Demon lord and he just isn't being used, and he's been around since 1st ED, It's a perfect time to go ahead and bring back some old baddies from greyhawk, Give the world a real turn for evil and see what happens when the abyss decides it wants something. The red wizards have been toying with forces they shouldn't have been.
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Berkthgar
Learned Scribe

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  19:23:12  Show Profile Send Berkthgar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tetra_koiwai

I would like to see more Graz'zt. The Abyss has the means of showing up on the prime via abyss cist (I think their called that) Shar looked as if she lost her mind during the Godborn book, so It's possible Rhylaxli would try to seize the Shadowfell for herself and thus take over the "shadows" area of Shars divinity, It would seem far more natural to me. As for Grazz't I mean you have a perfectly good and interesting Demon lord and he just isn't being used, and he's been around since 1st ED, It's a perfect time to go ahead and bring back some old baddies from greyhawk, Give the world a real turn for evil and see what happens when the abyss decides it wants something. The red wizards have been toying with forces they shouldn't have been.




What about Orcus?

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Orcus

“Change is not always growth, but growth is often rooted in change.
Drizzt Do'Urden”
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore

1221 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  19:33:15  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Asmodeus's Homepage Send Chosen of Asmodeus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Orcus is one of the more commonly used demon lords for D&D lore and adventures. He's one of the more invested in the mortal world, and can pull double duty with threats, as he brings both undead and demons to the forefront.

Personally I prefer Pazuzu to Orcus and Graz'zt, but that's just me.

"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress

Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.

The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe

USA
492 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  19:46:23  Show Profile  Visit Shemmy's Homepage  Send Shemmy an AOL message  Send Shemmy an ICQ Message Send Shemmy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by
In regards to the abyssal hierarchy, balors are generally the most powerful demons short of demon lords, though as the abyss is a place of chaos, any individual demon can attain greater levels of power(generally represented by a dm giving a demon class levels and/or templates). Out of the box, though, I believe klurichirs are the only standard demon that's more powerful than a balor, though on the meta level, they didn't exist at the time Errtu was introduced.




The molydeus are greater in rank. Blood war proxies for the collective abyssal lords.

Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Tetra_koiwai
Seeker

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  20:02:22  Show Profile  Visit Tetra_koiwai's Homepage Send Tetra_koiwai a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Look at graz'zt layers... tell me who is the best demon lord to worship.

Obviously a man of taste, quality, commitment and knowledge. Orcus is just some howling demon who is nothing more than chaotic evil personafied. He lusts for power and control simply because he wants it, he has no greater ends, no desire to set himself above others... I think he simply does what he does because he feels the desire to be better, rather than the desire to be the best. Graz'zt is my man.
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Tetra_koiwai
Seeker

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  20:09:53  Show Profile  Visit Tetra_koiwai's Homepage Send Tetra_koiwai a Private Message  Reply with Quote
also, If someone happened to try and obtain the shard of utter evil, what type of campaign would that be?

>Taking the shard and placing it in the realm of positive energy

for example.

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Berkthgar
Learned Scribe

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  20:58:40  Show Profile Send Berkthgar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That awkward moment when your DM has a abyssal lord waiting for you. DND is a good time lol. Sorry off topic

“Change is not always growth, but growth is often rooted in change.
Drizzt Do'Urden”
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore

1221 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  21:00:24  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Asmodeus's Homepage Send Chosen of Asmodeus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy

quote:
[i]Originally posted by
In regards to the abyssal hierarchy, balors are generally the most powerful demons short of demon lords, though as the abyss is a place of chaos, any individual demon can attain greater levels of power(generally represented by a dm giving a demon class levels and/or templates). Out of the box, though, I believe klurichirs are the only standard demon that's more powerful than a balor, though on the meta level, they didn't exist at the time Errtu was introduced.




The molydeus are greater in rank. Blood war proxies for the collective abyssal lords.



I admit I'm not very familiar with the molydeus. I don't have any information on their stats or ecology for AD&D/2e, though looking at their stats and lore for 3.5 and 4e are interesting and somewhat contradictory.

In 3.5, they're introduced in the Fendish Codex vol. 1, where they're given a CR of 19(compared to a CR20 Balor); upon examination of their stats, the Balor is over all more powerful, though not by a great amount.

Ecology wise, they're stated to be the enforcers of the demon lords and act as bounty hunters for their enemies, especially Blood War deserters(which opens up a few questions for a later date). They also act as generals and sometimes lord over areas of the abyss itself. Aside from the bounty hunting, they're much like Balors themselves.

4e is where it gets interesting. They're certainly more powerful than balors here, being level 29 elites(compared to Balor's level 27 elite), with stats significantly higher than the balor's.

But their ecology specifies that there are only seven of them, and that they originated as seven angels charged by Tharizdun to guard the shard of pure evil he used to create the abyss, and that it was their proximity to the shard that warped them into what they are now. It doesn't go into their role in the demonic hierarchy, other than to say that when encountered they are usually with a group of lesser demons, citing maraliths as their favored companions, though they're also willing to work with balors and klurichirs(who are specifically weaker than them in 4e).

"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress

Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.

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Berkthgar
Learned Scribe

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  21:01:42  Show Profile Send Berkthgar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And really what was the point of errtu in the never winter series? Heck tiago was more formidable than that balor"

“Change is not always growth, but growth is often rooted in change.
Drizzt Do'Urden”
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1602 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  21:16:50  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kinda stopped Drizzy books some time ago (although I will read the next few after reading The Companions). As for Errtu, ya it would be nice to see him permanently slain.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe

USA
492 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  21:22:32  Show Profile  Visit Shemmy's Homepage  Send Shemmy an AOL message  Send Shemmy an ICQ Message Send Shemmy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus



But their ecology specifies that there are only seven of them, and that they originated as seven angels charged by Tharizdun to guard the shard of pure evil he used to create the abyss, and that it was their proximity to the shard that warped them into what they are now. It doesn't go into their role in the demonic hierarchy, other than to say that when encountered they are usually with a group of lesser demons, citing maraliths as their favored companions, though they're also willing to work with balors and klurichirs(who are specifically weaker than them in 4e).



The 4e lore on them is specific to the 4e core world only and doesn't work with the lore from 2e/3e both on the ecology and the history/cosmology level.

Not my thing, but of course use it if it works for your own game. God knows I break continuity in my own home game [PF game currently delving happily into the history of the Peacock Spirit and set in Galisemni (aka Not-Sigil)]

Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore

1221 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  21:43:49  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Asmodeus's Homepage Send Chosen of Asmodeus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I actually rather like the 4e lore for them, now that I've read it. That being said, the pathfinder system's won me over, so were I to use them I'd use the 3.5 stats. Of course, I'm quite fond of lore bending/breaking myself, with my world being a bit of a hodgepodge.

As for the point of Errtu's appearance in the Last Threshold, I'm not sure. I'd like to think it was a sort of metaphor for not being caught up in the past, letting go of old grudges, and how the world leaves those who can't move beyond their obsessions behind.

Of course, given as how the Companions went in the complete opposite direction of that message, I'm not so sure. Could be that Bob just wrote himself into a corner and what we got was the best resolution we could hope for. RAS admitted in interviews that he didn't have the series planned from the start- didn't know where Gauntlgrym would end when he started writing it, didn't know where Neverwinter Wood would go before he started writing it. Didn't know the Last Threshold would even happen until after Neverwinter Wood was finished, I believe.

I suppose the 4e change and time jump taught him not to plan too far ahead.

"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress

Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.

The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31231 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  21:59:58  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy


Not my thing, but of course use it if it works for your own game. God knows I break continuity in my own home game [PF game currently delving happily into the history of the Peacock Spirit and set in Galisemni (aka Not-Sigil)]




The King of the Crosstrade isn't using Sigil? Isn't that a form of sacrilege?

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 10 Dec 2013 22:00:47
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Tetra_koiwai
Seeker

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  22:15:24  Show Profile  Visit Tetra_koiwai's Homepage Send Tetra_koiwai a Private Message  Reply with Quote
maybe what happens is that errtu is thinking the same thing, all these constant failures will lead to him deeply questioning his goals in existence, why he seems to bothered with drizzt in the first place and what he can do to finally move on. If anything errtu should just focus more on what he can control or try to hurt drizzt in the worst way possible, by killing his god.
And then you found out that errtu is the chosen of lolth and he's on the prime again.
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe

USA
492 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  23:00:50  Show Profile  Visit Shemmy's Homepage  Send Shemmy an AOL message  Send Shemmy an ICQ Message Send Shemmy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy


Not my thing, but of course use it if it works for your own game. God knows I break continuity in my own home game [PF game currently delving happily into the history of the Peacock Spirit and set in Galisemni (aka Not-Sigil)]




The King of the Crosstrade isn't using Sigil? Isn't that a form of sacrilege?



Galisemni is a gigantic love-letter to Sigil*.

*At least the version in my home game - the canonical version hasn't been fully written up beyond being named in a half dozen passing references to it, and appearing on a map of the Maelstrom.

Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31231 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  23:48:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy


Not my thing, but of course use it if it works for your own game. God knows I break continuity in my own home game [PF game currently delving happily into the history of the Peacock Spirit and set in Galisemni (aka Not-Sigil)]




The King of the Crosstrade isn't using Sigil? Isn't that a form of sacrilege?



Galisemni is a gigantic love-letter to Sigil*.

*At least the version in my home game - the canonical version hasn't been fully written up beyond being named in a half dozen passing references to it, and appearing on a map of the Maelstrom.



Okay, that restores my faith in you.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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