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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
 Posted - 18 May 2013 : 20:28:59
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How the heck is it that the goddess opposing the great Shar is simply just supposed to be the goddess of a smaller lunar object orbiting a single planet within realmspace?? Oh wait, she's also the stars and all the celestial objects in space that reflect the light of the sun back to Toril. So, she's in effect, the bringer of light into darkness.... which fits, since she brought the sun into being. This in turn kindled life. So, she's a lifebringer goddess. She also favors women, and women grow and nurture new life. Shouldn't we expand her portfolio in the new editions to being the goddess of "life creation" or something. Has she diminished her own powers over time by giving up her own portfolios to other beings in order to have new allies to stave off her sister (i.e. creating the Sun gods, Chauntea, handing over birth to Lathander, magic to Mystra, etc....)
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 20:37:36
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She is the bringer of life...
Silver Fire...
She illuminates that which is hidden, exposes that which is secret. She is the light.
I had always wondered myself why her role was always so downplayed in Realmslore, when she is obviously at least as important as Shar and Mystra. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 May 2013 20:38:38 |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 20:41:36
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| shar and selune honestly, are sort of the super powers that never was. They are a sort of cold war of faerun, every god as heros,but you know who the villains are every book it seems. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 21:01:21
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And at the same time, they can't exist without each other. How can you have light without darknerss? Darkness without light? One becomes meaningless without the other.
They are two sides of a single coin.
Strangely, I think Mystra should have been 'shadow', not Shar. She is supposed to be some sort of Amalagam of the two, and that should be shadow - halfway between the light and the dark. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 22:28:01
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Hmm, maybe I don't understand the cosmology (or dont remember the facts) but as I recall...Mystra was born of Selune (where did Shar come into that?). Selune, in effect, turned over 'life' of a sorts to Mystra since in Ed's writing the Weave=Life. I don't see how shadow can be a part of that. *shrugs*
I agree though that Selune has been rather downplayed in the lore. She is far more significant than she is portrayed (or at least should be). I do think that she has turned much of her power over to others to give them the collective edge they need to fight Shar.
It is said that her power waxes and wanes similar to the way the moon does. So, as I see it, her current personal power is weaker than in the past. But this would only be temporary. At some point she should gain strength again. But this could be thousands of years away.
Selune, by the way, is one of my favorite deities. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 23:11:45
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
shar and selune honestly, are sort of the super powers that never was. They are a sort of cold war of faerun, every god as heros,but you know who the villains are every book it seems.
Well, that was the case until 3E, when suddenly Mystra became Shar's most hated enemy... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 23:13:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Hmm, maybe I don't understand the cosmology (or dont remember the facts) but as I recall...Mystra was born of Selune (where did Shar come into that?).
Mystryl was born of both Selūne and Shar. Selūne ripped a piece of her self off and chucked it at Shar. It tore thru Shar, taking some of her with it. And those combined chunks became Mystryl. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2013 : 00:03:06
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| hmmm, so in essence... Selune gave of herself to form another divinity. Much as she probably gave of herself to form the Sun and then the planets. As I see it, she was also maybe giving of herself to let Eilistraee and Sehanine Moonbow claim the moon (maybe she was going to divest herself of that to them until the spellplague and become maybe a goddess of nurturing and protection). Maybe her waxing and waning is in fact her building up a lot of power, then divesting that to form a deity, etc... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2013 : 01:03:23
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| In the Dragon magazine article where Shar and Selune were first described it said that Selune is killed over and over again by Shar then ressurected (hence the phases of the moon) |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2013 : 01:27:13
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According to the Netherese myth during the height of the battle between Shar and Selune known as the War of Light and Darkness...
"Selune reached beyond the universe to a plane of fire, using pure flame to ignite one of the heavenly bodies so that Chauntea would be warmed. Shar became enraged and began to snuff out all light and warmth in the universe. Desperate and greatly weakened, Selune tore the divine essence of magic from her body and hurled it at her sister, tearing through Shar's form and pulling with it similar energy from the dark twin. This energy formed Mystryl, the goddess of magic. Composed of light and dark magic but favoring her first mother, Mystryl balanced the battle and established an uneasy truce between the two sisters." -- 3E FRCS, pg 260
Unfortunately, Mystra eclipsed Selune in importance in the Realms, mostly because she was the goddess of the Weave rather than just magic. Selune is at best a second tier deity in terms of influence and importance on major Realms events.
So the answer to the question is because Mystra became Shar's primary enemy and Selune took a backseat to that conflict.
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I play Selune and Shar differently in my Realms. Both faiths have a large clandestine element to them. Selune has major influence over the Harpers, for example. They both lack a central organizing hierarchy for the faith, their cults tend to be locally run, and though there is some consistency among them there can also be a large degree of variance.
Culturally speaking, throughout the Realms Selune is viewed as the Goddess of the moon, stars, prophecy, motherhood, and dreams. This is how she is most commonly viewed. A priest of Selune is most likely going to be a female in a local village, whose primary role is that of a midwife. She blesses children as they're born and tells a prophecy about their potential future. She also interprets dreams, and through them gives people guidance - as everyone knows the gods most frequently speak through dreams, and thus it helps to have someone who can interpret them for you.
Outside of this context she is also frequently viewed as the goddess of wanderers, journeys, quests, and navigation. Most of the people who worship her in this context are either adventurers, mercenaries, explorers, and sailors. They turn to Selune for guidance and protection; sailors in particular depend on her as they navigate using the stars. Priests of Selune in this context bless those who are traveling away from home, and it is hoped that she will guide them to where they're going or will protect them so that they can return home safely. Thus, a D&D PC would most likely worship her in this context.
Much less commonly she is viewed as a deity of lycans. However, this is mostly among lycans themselves and really isn't embraced by the other cults. The lycans who worship her are often less violent, and often use their powers to protect innocent people - particularly travelers. They also actively hunt those who serve Shar, and secretly aid other cults of Selune without their knowledge (even if they don't accept or recognize them). This form of worship of Selune has a tendency to be focused in the North and the Silver Marches in particular.
Finally, she's viewed as the patron deity of Silverymoon. She is seen as a deity of tolerance, urging her faithful to be open-minded when dealing with others. She is also viewed as the deity of travelers and explorers, in addition to the deity of dreams, prophecy, and motherhood.
According to popular legend in Silverymoon, the location where the city now stands was once a holy grove to the faithful of Mielikki and Lurue, and pilgrims would frequent the location. Selune saw this and sent one of her priests to the location to guide and protect travelers. The Moonsilver Inn was built, and the ford where the River Rauvin was shallow enough to be crossed in summer, and easily bridged became known as Silverymoon Ford. Since then Selune has guided and protected travelers to the location, and over time a village grew around the Moonsilver Inn, and that village became the city known as Silverymoon.
In addition to Selune's influence over the area Mielikki and Lurue have also had a large sway, especially over the construction of the city. As a result of Selune's influence in the area she became known as "Our Lady of Silver" or simply as "Our Lady" in Silverymoon.
After generations of living side by side, a heresy developed within the church of Sehanine Moonbow that Selune was really just Sehanine masquerading in human form. This caused conflict with the church of Selune, and created a division between the two faiths.
Post-Spellplague the two faiths got together to try and sort out their differences. After about a decade of carefully parsing visions, dreams, prophecies and the like - and intense theological debate - the faithful in the church of Sehanine became divided themselves. A sizable faction saw Selune as a primordial deity pre-dating all others, and basically accepting the myth of the War of Light and Darkness as fact. They came to believe that Sehanine was the elven interpretation of this primordial deity, and thus a heresy and schism formed.
The faithful of Selune embraced the heresy, further dividing the church of Sehanine, which denounced the heretics. This was followed by a coupe supported by the church of Selune, which led to the ouster of the clergy of Sehanine from Silverymoon. This is where the post-Spellplague "Selune is really Sehanine" belief came from; it is denounced by the overwhelming number of faithful of Sehanine as well as traditionalist elves. It did, however, become popular and spread to communities where both Elves and Humans live in very close proximity.
At the same time, as the schism formed, it also started a "your elven deity is really this Faerunian deity" revolution in Silverymoon. They ended with similar results.
As one might expect, this has created a great deal of conflict between Elves and humans. Elven traditionalists see this move as humans actively attempting to destroy elven culture and perverting the elven way of life. The heretical revolution spread to other racial pantheons as well, once again with similar results.
Basically, this is what happens when you have different pantheons of deities intermingling in the Realms. This type of conflict is inevitable. It was foreshadowed to happen with the Mulhorandi pantheon, and it took place among the numerous human pantheons which eventually merged into the Faerunian Pantheon.
So, basically in my Realms I have pockets of those who worship an "expanded" Faerunian Pantheon, and those that are "traditionalists" who worship only within their racial pantheon. It's a rather chaotic time for religion and the various faiths in the Realms. Multiculturalism and racial pantheons simply, sadly, don't mix very well. On the bright side, some racial pantheon deities make the jump to the Faerunian to fill niches of their own.
Anyway, that's how I dealt with the "Selune is really Sehanine" and other such BS tossed at us by 4E. I made it work in the context of previously established lore. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2013 : 02:11:46
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something interestingly enough, in the neverwinter mmo, I think may have something to with selune
"They would seize from the moon,the way to ruins and riches. " |
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Just some thoughts on Selune
