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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 17:32:58
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Having just gotten back from the bookstore with my copy, I just have to ask: so, do you have yours yet?
Of course, I haven't been able to do much reading yet, but I intend to rectify that as soon as possible.
And yes, I know this should technically be in the RPG section, but I think this will be a wide ranging discussion, so I put it in this scroll instead.
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Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 17:36:31
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| UPS tracking lists mine as "out for delivery." Definitely stoked for its arrival today. :) |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 20:26:06
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Got it 
Read it 
Loved it 
Wrote a brief review in the "Forgotten Realms RPG Products" hallway. |
Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 21:13:47
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| just got mine a bit ago. 17 pages in. it is frakking awesomesauce! |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 00:52:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Sylrae
quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus
Wrote a brief review in the "Forgotten Realms RPG Products" hallway.
Link?
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17114
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Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
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Euranna
Learned Scribe
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 01:46:22
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| I now have mine. My husband brought it home for me (he has a game shop around the corner from his work). I shall be reading it shortly. I have been flipping through it as I make dinner. :D |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 01:46:31
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I freaking hate UPS right now. It came into the city THIS MORNING and said it was in transit. It's now close to 8pm and nothing! Well, let's say I called and made a very disgruntled complaint. I wish they would've called me and said it would be delayed, because I would've came and picked it up myself at the UPS warehouse like I did when I ordered a 3E book a long time back and I wasn't home to sign for it.
I'll read the review as the questions I have will most likely be answered there.
So GRRRR!!! right now |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 02:13:31
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| Double fail. Neither the book store nor the FLGS got a copy of it. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 02:32:39
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I had a few minutes after work, so I went to Barnes & Noble to check it out. They have a small but usually up-to-date section for D&D books. Couldn't find it, and they told me they had no plan to order any.
Didn't have time to go to another store, but if I have time tomorrow I'll try Hastings or one of our gaming stores (longer drive).
Getting rather more curious with all the positive reports I've been seeing here.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1266 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 02:39:38
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This board is killing me with how bad it works. Fails half the time I post.
ANYWAY. The lore in the book is GREAT, no doubt, and I want more of the series BUT...a huge BUT...there is a section on Cyric and a reference (at least one) to the Princes of Shade.
I can't say enough how dissapointing that is to me, as I wanted Ed's version of the realms and I wanted something ESPECIALLY without any "Return of the Archwizard" Shade crap in it. I feel very betrayed, as I was lead to believe this is a pre-ToT Ed's version of how the realm is for his players. And I got Volo's Guide to Everything in the realms by the way the 3rd edition has happened let's slip in Cyric and the Shade Princes.
Did I read the marketing wrong? |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 02:59:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
I had a few minutes after work, so I went to Barnes & Noble to check it out. They have a small but usually up-to-date section for D&D books. Couldn't find it, and they told me they had no plan to order any.
Didn't have time to go to another store, but if I have time tomorrow I'll try Hastings or one of our gaming stores (longer drive).
Getting rather more curious with all the positive reports I've been seeing here.
I hear ya. Unfortunately, the D&D section in our local Barnes and Noble has steadily been shrinking throughout the years. It used to be a huge section of gaming supplies, now its down to one small rack with a handful of books. They didn't even order the Menzoberranzan book recently released.
I called our local gaming store and was told they only special order 4E stuff now. Though the Pathfinder section in the local game store is quite a nice selection. ;)
Needless to say, I just order from Amazon now. |
Edited by - Eilserus on 17 Oct 2012 03:01:01 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 03:05:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
I had a few minutes after work, so I went to Barnes & Noble to check it out. They have a small but usually up-to-date section for D&D books. Couldn't find it, and they told me they had no plan to order any.
Didn't have time to go to another store, but if I have time tomorrow I'll try Hastings or one of our gaming stores (longer drive).
Getting rather more curious with all the positive reports I've been seeing here.
I hear ya. Unfortunately, the D&D section in our local Barnes and Noble has steadily been shrinking throughout the years. It used to be a huge section of gaming supplies, now its down to one small rack with a handful of books. They didn't even order the Menzoberranzan book recently released.
I called our local gaming store and was told they only special order 4E stuff now. Though the Pathfinder section in the local game store is quite a nice selection. ;)
Needless to say, I just order from Amazon now.
Interesting. I did see a copy of the new Menzoberranzan at the B&N that I went to today, plus a couple of other recent things (the dungeon survival guide, that's fairly new also, right?).
I may just skip Hastings tomorrow and drive over to the nearest gaming store so I can at least peruse it (hopefully they'll have it).
But yeah, I've just been so let down with WotC that I really need to see this and at least skim it before buying. My trust level with WotC is incredibly low, sadly.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 03:14:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
I had a few minutes after work, so I went to Barnes & Noble to check it out. They have a small but usually up-to-date section for D&D books. Couldn't find it, and they told me they had no plan to order any.
Didn't have time to go to another store, but if I have time tomorrow I'll try Hastings or one of our gaming stores (longer drive).
Getting rather more curious with all the positive reports I've been seeing here.
I hear ya. Unfortunately, the D&D section in our local Barnes and Noble has steadily been shrinking throughout the years. It used to be a huge section of gaming supplies, now its down to one small rack with a handful of books. They didn't even order the Menzoberranzan book recently released.
I called our local gaming store and was told they only special order 4E stuff now. Though the Pathfinder section in the local game store is quite a nice selection. ;)
Needless to say, I just order from Amazon now.
same problem here, manager was nice and seemed to know his stuff about RPGs, he said they are getting out of WotC because for the past couple years they can't even sell the stuff on the bargain rack, but that their Pathfinder sales are doing well
Amazon it is for me too |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 03:16:14
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Reposting my review from “Forgotten Realms RPG Products”
Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster’s Forgotten Realms.
Thrasy gives it...
It’s great! It’s a Guide. And if I had to choose a title for it I would use the overly lengthy “Volo’s Introductory Guide to the Realms Culture - Circa Year of the Prince”. If you are familiar with those guides it has that kind of flavor. Not really a setting like the “Old Gray Box” (there are no city maps… ect), and it seems the Time of Troubles didn’t happen, which is a good thing.
The only criticism (it’s huge stretch and more of a compliment) is that they didn't use the term “Volume 1”. Because I would buy more of the same.
Side note to the Wizards people: Again Ed references this cache of pages upon pages of already typed lore. A small team deployed to the task of scanning all that in would make you rich. IMHO this product could be a foundation for a reboot. SO if you are testing the waters, the answer is “Yes, this what I meant by a reboot. Yes, I want to buy much more of this” Scan it. Sell it to me. Take my money.
And
My Barnes and Noble only had two of these, and mine came straight from the box. So they’re down to one.
@Therise – It’s okay. Really, the water is fine. |
Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 03:31:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
This board is killing me with how bad it works. Fails half the time I post.
ANYWAY. The lore in the book is GREAT, no doubt, and I want more of the series BUT...a huge BUT...there is a section on Cyric and a reference (at least one) to the Princes of Shade.
I can't say enough how dissapointing that is to me, as I wanted Ed's version of the realms and I wanted something ESPECIALLY without any "Return of the Archwizard" Shade crap in it. I feel very betrayed, as I was lead to believe this is a pre-ToT Ed's version of how the realm is for his players. And I got Volo's Guide to Everything in the realms by the way the 3rd edition has happened let's slip in Cyric and the Shade Princes.
Did I read the marketing wrong?
All I can say is that there is this position called "Editor" at WotC.
Notice how very small the information on Cyric is compared to the other gods? 
As for the Princes of Shade...I've always liked that hook (perhaps without the gods-awful power level!) as I was playing a Shade in the Old Grey Box days myself.  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 03:53:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
...BUT...there is a section on Cyric and a reference (at least one) to the Princes of Shade.
I can't say enough how dissapointing that is to me, as I wanted Ed's version of the realms and I wanted something ESPECIALLY without any "Return of the Archwizard" Shade crap in it. I feel very betrayed, as I was lead to believe this is a pre-ToT Ed's version of how the realm is for his players. And I got Volo's Guide to Everything in the realms by the way the 3rd edition has happened let's slip in Cyric and the Shade Princes.
Did I read the marketing wrong?
Wow, I missed this the first time around. Cyric and the Princes of Shade are in it? Maybe I was wrong in reading the marketing blurbs also, but I always thought that Ed's home campaign didn't have these. Then again, I could also be wrong about what I thought was and wasn't in Ed's home campaign.
My earnest hope, ever since we were told the plans for the canon Realms with retaining 4E and the Sundering, was that THIS book was literally Ed's version of the Realms. And by that, I was hoping for an alternate reality Realms that never had a Time of Troubles, never had Spellplague or time jump.
Perhaps I set myself up for disappointment also. 
Ugh. I'll still go see if I can find a copy, but I'm not nearly as motivated as before.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 04:17:43
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There is nearly a full page on Myrkul, Malar, Siamorphe, and Tyr, as well as a page and a half on Helm, Tymora, and Bane. Cyric has not even a quarter of one page. No god/goddess gets less page space than Cyric, whose contribution is a total of 14 lines, 117 words. Finder Wyvernspur gets a longer section than Cyric. And a good chunk of the words about Cyric seem to be about how Bane is strictly stronger and should inevitably win out in the contest with Cyric. I'm not good enough at reading written words to be sure, by Cyric's section doesn't read like the others. The other faiths are set up with a Creed and Secular Aims sections, Cyric gets none of this. Children's toys get 37 lines, nearly triple Cyric's, and one single type of perfume equals his lines(there are 5 other specific scents/perfumes described), and there are many more fascinating things that get their due.
I can't tell you that you will love everything in the book, or that you shouldn't be disheartened by having something you don't want included, you are free to feel the way you want about anything. I will tell you that if you can overlook less than one quarter of one page in a 191 page book where Cyric is(or, if you don't want a collectable copy, paste something on top of it!) you will be glad you did. The rest of the book is excellent even from a single skimming, I can't wait to delve into it in depth. I've already found one thing to add to my campaign(Tethyrian Cuisine, for my Kingmaker campaign set just southeast of Tethyr and Elven Cuisine for some visiting Elven dignitaries, while at least 2 of my PCs will slaver over the poisons and/or drugs) and I am sure to find many more. |
Edited by - idilippy on 17 Oct 2012 04:18:58 |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1266 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 04:32:22
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To be fair, there's no Kelemvor (yay) and the references to post-ToT events (including Spellplague and Shade return) are extremely minimal!
And the lore is great! I LOVE LOVE LOVE the hand drawn map of the Dragonreach/Dales/Moonsea/Cormyr. There's tons to love.
It looks like Ed grudgingly threw in a few references to established 2nd/3rd/4th edition things throughout in very terse and sporadic points to make the book as "D&DNext" FR should be--suitable for all editions. I am very disappointed they are included at all, but the book is still amazing and very well done.
And we should ask for more like it, just please WotC, leave Ed alone and let him talk about *his* Realms. |
Edited by - Seravin on 17 Oct 2012 04:34:17 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 04:47:43
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| I'm really digging the Gods section where it talks about their creed, secular aims, and in some cases garb of the clergy. :) Especially some of these hooks where I can take a cleric of say Chauntea or Deneir and make them into an actual shady character or villain type. |
Edited by - Eilserus on 17 Oct 2012 04:50:36 |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 04:54:08
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| Hey now, I happen to like Cyric and Kelemvor. The former feels so much like a more wild, Joker-like, Loki-type, super villain of the Realms and I think he is awesome. Bane is fun for a tyrannical, simplistic, direct method of evil but Cyric is downright fun and creative. As for the latter, Kelemvor is a much more interesting take on a god of the dead than the stereotypical death gods like Myrkul. Not that I don't enjoy Myrkul's type of death god, I think they both ha e their place as it should be. |
Edited by - Razz on 17 Oct 2012 04:54:52 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 05:52:47
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I wonder if this is a hint of Shade soon being humbled. On page 162 we see: "So, if she uses Shade and its princes as her tools now, there will come a day when she destroys them utterly, in favor of someone much weaker and very different. For that is the way of Shar."
Interesting and possibly a hint of things to come? |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 06:55:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus
Reposting my review from “Forgotten Realms RPG Products”
Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster’s Forgotten Realms.
Thrasy gives it...
It’s great! It’s a Guide. And if I had to choose a title for it I would use the overly lengthy “Volo’s Introductory Guide to the Realms Culture - Circa Year of the Prince”. If you are familiar with those guides it has that kind of flavor. Not really a setting like the “Old Gray Box” (there are no city maps… ect), and it seems the Time of Troubles didn’t happen, which is a good thing.
The only criticism (it’s huge stretch and more of a compliment) is that they didn't use the term “Volume 1”. Because I would buy more of the same.
Side note to the Wizards people: Again Ed references this cache of pages upon pages of already typed lore. A small team deployed to the task of scanning all that in would make you rich. IMHO this product could be a foundation for a reboot. SO if you are testing the waters, the answer is “Yes, this what I meant by a reboot. Yes, I want to buy much more of this” Scan it. Sell it to me. Take my money.
And
My Barnes and Noble only had two of these, and mine came straight from the box. So they’re down to one.
@Therise – It’s okay. Really, the water is fine.
Totally agree, great book! I'd love to see this type of life-like detail in a regional format for say The North, the Dales, Cormyr etc. Though I do like how we get samples of various different places across the Realms in this and maybe that would be a better approach. I hope this book does well, because I definitely want more. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 13:42:08
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There's a lot of great gods and clergy info in here. For instance the page and a half or two pages all on why clerics of evil gods are tolerated, focusing specifically on the priesthoods of Malar and Loviatar and their relationships with Cormyr.
That seems to be the format for a lot of the book: focus on one area specifically for the details of one section, then move to another in the next. Cormyr and Waterdeep are the two most frequently occuring, but there are others as well, and sometimes it discusses entire regions.
Oh, and I think the Phrases of the Realms thread is going to need some major updating. There are Realms phrases all over this book.
And yes, it's already given me an evil adventure hook to inflict on the players in my most recent game. No, I'm not going to mention what section it's in. Muahahahaha! |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 13:51:42
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Got mine yesterday. Made the guys at B&N look all over the store to find it. Found it in the back. I wasn't leaving without a copy. I adore this book.
WotC should print one every year on certain locations. Elminster's Amn. Elminster's Shadowdale. Elminster's Cormyr. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 14:54:04
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| Skimmed the book last night. So far, so good. It is quite apparent that WOTC forced some additions with the few lines on Cyric, the Shade phrase, and the few references to the 1400s. Other than those easily overlooked flaws, the book is great and really takes us back to the Year of the Prince. |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 15:14:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Apex
Skimmed the book last night. So far, so good. It is quite apparent that WOTC forced some additions with the few lines on Cyric, the Shade phrase, and the few references to the 1400s. Other than those easily overlooked flaws, the book is great and really takes us back to the Year of the Prince.
Gah, Cyric is in it. I saw the dead three, did some premature dancing.
Thrasy was wrong. I am sorry.
Revised Thrasy score to |
Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 17:37:35
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| Yeah, it's easy to get the impression that Ed didn't include Cyric in his turn over. I'm near-positive it wasn't included by his pen. |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 17:50:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Hey now, I happen to like Cyric and Kelemvor. The former feels so much like a more wild, Joker-like, Loki-type, super villain of the Realms and I think he is awesome. Bane is fun for a tyrannical, simplistic, direct method of evil but Cyric is downright fun and creative.
Your not using the potential that Bane offers then. Reducing him to be "simplistic" is strongly underestimating the usefullness of Bane as the most prominent villain and i dare to say Bane is by far more creative than Cyric who is only an imposter and lucked out with the Time of Troubles. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 18:01:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
Yeah, it's easy to get the impression that Ed didn't include Cyric in his turn over. I'm near-positive it wasn't included by his pen.
If they can edit, add, and subtract whatever they want, then he's not really in charge at all, is he? 
*Edited because another poster managed to get under my skin recently, and I should know better then to allow that to 'taint' my responses with vitriol. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Oct 2012 18:31:40 |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1266 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 18:16:16
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^Markustay, I share your distaste at WotC editing Ed's version of the Realms as I was really under the impression we were getting Ed's Homebrew Realms (and the lore / happenings in his world in the Year of the Prince).
I surmise that WotC determined in their infinite wisdom that this may have proven too confusing to those who purchased it, and it was tweaked to allow for the 2nd/3rd/4th edition content and made "suitable for all editions". Which is hideous in my opinion, BUT...the book still contains so much greatness of lore and is really high quality because I think Ed originally wrote it to be what we thought it was going to be.
I would love to see more books on various regions (with "current clack" from the Year of the Prince!). Ed Greenwood's Moonsea would be my favourite book ever.
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Elminster's Forgotten Realms
