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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 20:15:15
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Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster’s Forgotten Realms.
Thrasy gives it... 
It’s great! It’s a Guide. And if I had to choose a title for it I would use the overly lengthy “Volo’s Introductory Guide to the Realms Culture - Circa Year of the Prince”. If you are familiar with those guides it has that kind of flavor. Not really a setting like the “Old Gray Box” (there are no city maps… ect), and it seems the Time of Troubles didn’t happen, which is a good thing.
The only criticism (it’s huge stretch and more of a compliment) is that they didn't use the term “Volume 1”. Because I would buy more of the same.
Side note to the Wizards people: Again Ed references this cache of pages upon pages of already typed lore. A small team deployed to the task of scanning all that in would make you rich. IMHO this product could be a foundation for a reboot. SO if you are testing the waters, the answer is “Yes, this what I meant by a reboot. Yes, I want to buy much more of this” Scan it. Sell it to me. Take my money.
And
My Barnes and Noble only had two of these, and mine came straight from the box. So they’re down to one.
Edit:
Gah, Cyric is in it. I saw the dead three, did some premature dancing.
Thrasy was wrong. I am sorry.
Revised score to 
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Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
Edited by - Thrasymachus on 17 Oct 2012 15:02:59
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 21:00:02
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| Just got mine. Ed's hand drawn map of the Dales, Moonsea, Cormyr and part of the Sea of Fallen stars should be released in jpeg format. It'd make a great player's map for characters to have. OK, back to reading! :) |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 01:50:57
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| No Time of Troubles because it didn't happen yet. That happened in 1358 D.R. and Year of the Prince is 1357 |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1265 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 02:31:10
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Really no Time of Troubles? Because there's a section in the Gods about Cyric (boo) and...most awful of all, a reference to the Shade princes under Shar's section.
I haven't read enough of the book, but I REALLY REALLY REALLY didn't want to see anything from the 3rd edition in this. I wanted Ed's version of the realms from Pre-ToT (or no time of troubles) not the stuff that he didn't invent or probably even want (like the Time of Troubles and Cyric).
I was pleased that there was at least no Kelemvor god and we had Myrkull and Bhaal and Bane descriptions. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 03:35:31
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| Just remember the power of the Editor here folks...Ed's Realms might not have something...but an Editor looking forward to a line of products may add in... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 04:58:05
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| 3e stuff I had no problem with. I think Bane's return, and the Shadovar were just perfect, but they should've left it at that |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 15:05:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Really no Time of Troubles? Because there's a section in the Gods about Cyric (boo) and...most awful of all, a reference to the Shade princes under Shar's section.
I haven't read enough of the book, but I REALLY REALLY REALLY didn't want to see anything from the 3rd edition in this. I wanted Ed's version of the realms from Pre-ToT (or no time of troubles) not the stuff that he didn't invent or probably even want (like the Time of Troubles and Cyric).
I was pleased that there was at least no Kelemvor god and we had Myrkull and Bhaal and Bane descriptions.
Seravin is right
Gah, Cyric is in it. I saw the dead three, did some premature dancing.
Thrasy was wrong. I am sorry.
Revised score to |
Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 15:07:44
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| Anything in it about the Harper Schism or the Mansoon War? I just got copy via Amazon, I expect the delivery by the end of the week, can't wait! My first Realm sourcebook since Waterdeep: City of Splendor! |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 15:18:59
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| Alright can someone share something from this book that covers something not covered before? Or was covered in very little detail? Like Sossal or the unknown continents or Lantan, etc. Something not rehashed all over again pretty much. |
Edited by - Razz on 17 Oct 2012 15:19:48 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 15:36:15
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It also talks about how the Manshoon wars lasted into the 1400's... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 17:41:56
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| Completely weird that they list Cyric as a god in a book that predates his acsension. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 18:15:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
Completely weird that they list Cyric as a god in a book that predates his acsension.
Possible explanation : Troy Denning is writing a Cyric-related novel in the upcoming Sundering marketing gimmick. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 17 Oct 2012 18:18:05 |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 18:40:58
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As requested, a quick listing of things that are new (or at least new to me):
* Uniforms and salutes of Waterdeep's Watch and Guard
* A concise (!) history of the Zhents that finally explains what exactly Manshoon had them up to. Still no Hesperdan, though.
* Listing of popular academies throughout the Realms (more than a page)
* How to properly cook cockatrices and stirges
* Lots on books: popular literature, the trouble with maps, religious writings, broadsheets, literacy in Cormyr
* Dwarven Klingon-like addiction to live worms while drinking
* How to make a common drow wine
And that's just some stuff at random. The gods section, despite Cyric, is really, really good. And yes, there are some mentions of the 1400's sprinkled throughout, but they are always used to show what's changed. The 1350's are always the "base" time. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 19:22:42
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| It's a great primer I think on Realms culture and how you can bring the world alive. Lots of great details. If there is a follow up to this tome, I'd love to see it start detailing places across the Realms, maybe similar to how the Volo guides approached it: a nice little map, details on a town area to bring it to life, and a crap-ton of adventure hooks and lore ideas for what adventure can be found in the area. :) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 20:12:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
Completely weird that they list Cyric as a god in a book that predates his acsension.
Mad gods ignore time constraints.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 21:07:39
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I will say this is pretty much what I want in a sourcebook. Going forward, this is how they should be.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 00:00:48
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To echo my post in the other thread: As I understand it, the book is meant to be era-neutral, so yeah, some of the things they talk about wont apply to all eras. It's more about how to run the Realms than a snapshot of the Realms at any given point in history.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 00:22:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
Completely weird that they list Cyric as a god in a book that predates his acsension.
Maybe someone read the cyrinishad to Ed whilst he was sleeping? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 18 Oct 2012 00:23:46 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 00:53:27
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As described to me a year back, the book was supposed to be the Forgotten Realms as it exists in Ed's original home campaign. Clearly, that changed at some point to reflect an edition-neutral stance.
Not that the book is bad. It's fantastic.
I was just hoping to see obscure old school Realmslore like Ed's original Moonshae Isles or Tyche being the goddess of luck (instead of Tymora/Beshaba). That sort of thing. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 03:11:11
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No to all of those. There is one illustration of a 4e tiefling that I saw, but it isn't referencing anything in the surrounding text (or if it is, only very tangentially and not referenced by name).
Most of the 4e stuff is along the lines of: "By the 1400's DR, thus and so that was previously described had shifted to such and such." For instance, in the section on bounty hunters, there's a note that in the 1400's one city made it legal for private citizens to hire bounty hunters to redress private wrongs, and that the practice soon spread. Most of the others are similar.
edit: About the spellplague: someone else in a different thread said it was mentioned once. If true, I haven't found the reference. However, I haven't been reading it cover to cover; I've been jumping around and while I've read most of it by now, I might have missed something. But it's very small, if it's there. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
Edited by - Hoondatha on 18 Oct 2012 03:12:51 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 03:37:25
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
Completely weird that they list Cyric as a god in a book that predates his acsension.
Maybe someone read the cyrinishad to Ed whilst he was sleeping?
 |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 04:16:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
As described to me a year back, the book was supposed to be the Forgotten Realms as it exists in Ed's original home campaign. Clearly, that changed at some point to reflect an edition-neutral stance.
Not that the book is bad. It's fantastic.
I was just hoping to see obscure old school Realmslore like Ed's original Moonshae Isles or Tyche being the goddess of luck (instead of Tymora/Beshaba). That sort of thing.
That's what I had heard and was expecting as well. Makes me scratch my head in wonder that Ed was filtered or re-interpreted....or had things he had to include.....def not the product we we promised if that's the case......crap now it makes me rethink expectations for future stuff.....double crap! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 18 Oct 2012 04:16:53 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 04:58:42
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It's definitely deceptive marketing, and a bad thing on WotC's part.
The good news is that even if it isn't the book we were waiting for, it is a very good book. Better than the vast majority of stuff published in 3e (that it's better than what little came out in 4e goes without saying). If we get more books along this line, with lore based in the 1350's but with brief notes on how things change over time, and if it's new and not rehashing 1e/2e stuff that's already out there, well, then I might just start buying again.
However, they promised us a book of Ed's original Realms as it was when he first turned it over to TSR. They should deliver on that promise. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 05:32:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
* A concise (!) history of the Zhents that finally explains what exactly Manshoon had them up to.
That's awesome news, given I've just put the Zhentarim on my player's radar (and my players on Manshoon's radar).
Thanks for mentioning that, Hoondatha. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Sonny
Acolyte
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 09:34:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
It's definitely deceptive marketing, and a bad thing on WotC's part.
The good news is that even if it isn't the book we were waiting for, it is a very good book. Better than the vast majority of stuff published in 3e (that it's better than what little came out in 4e goes without saying). If we get more books along this line, with lore based in the 1350's but with brief notes on how things change over time, and if it's new and not rehashing 1e/2e stuff that's already out there, well, then I might just start buying again.
However, they promised us a book of Ed's original Realms as it was when he first turned it over to TSR. They should deliver on that promise.
Eh? What was promised was a look at the Forgotten Realms as it exists in Ed's home campaign. Not the Forgotten Realms as it was before TSR got it's hands on it.
It's very possible Ed has added people, gods, and events from the published version to his home campaign as it's progressed over the years.
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 12:47:08
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| Ed's home campaign hasn't even gotten to the Time of Troubles yet, let alone the 1400's. (Not that I mind the ToT, since I came to the Realms in 2e) So just from those references alone it's not "Ed's home Realms." It's something very nice, but it isn't what was promised. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 15:46:41
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| I am still trying to wrap my mind around Mages merging with the Weave to make it stronger... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 17:41:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Ed's home campaign hasn't even gotten to the Time of Troubles yet, let alone the 1400's. (Not that I mind the ToT, since I came to the Realms in 2e) So just from those references alone it's not "Ed's home Realms." It's something very nice, but it isn't what was promised.
Not to be argumentative (because you make a good point), but what sort of product would have fulfilled that expectation? I don't think it's possible Ed could fit his Dalelands or Cormyr into this book, much less the entirety of his Realms. This book is a very general overview--a "glimpse" as promised.
What this book is, IMO, is a guide to running the realms the way Ed does it, which is without definite sourcebooks or pre-scripted adventures. It's a small look at an infinitely vast setting. So in that respect, it's exactly what WotC promised. To get a FULL view of Ed's Realms (which seems to have been the expectation of several scribes), we'd need at least 10-20+ more of these.
I hope the book does well and WotC gets the message that this is the sort of sourcebook we want and need, so we can start getting those 10-20 more. I think the next one should be ELMINSTER'S HEARTLANDS, by Ed Greenwood with Brian and Matt James (and whoever else Ed hand-picks for his support team), then DALELANDS, MOONSEA, SWORD COAST, DRAGON COAST, CORMYR, etc.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 17:46:21
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Also a note about the tiefling picture: I saw that and thought "ah, 4e!" but honestly, a pre-4e tiefling could have looked like that, if she manifested those specific traits. What I'd really like to see is tieflings that look different as well, though I can understand only one tiefling pic in the book. I get the sense tieflings are very rare (if they exist at all) in Ed's campaign.
What about that pic of all the nobles with the bloody weapons? A little over the top, but hey, I get the point.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster’s Forgotten Realms
