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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe

178 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2012 :  20:15:15  Show Profile Send Thrasymachus a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster’s Forgotten Realms.
Thrasy gives it...

It’s great! It’s a Guide. And if I had to choose a title for it I would use the overly lengthy “Volo’s Introductory Guide to the Realms Culture - Circa Year of the Prince”. If you are familiar with those guides it has that kind of flavor. Not really a setting like the “Old Gray Box” (there are no city maps… ect), and it seems the Time of Troubles didn’t happen, which is a good thing.

The only criticism (it’s huge stretch and more of a compliment) is that they didn't use the term “Volume 1”. Because I would buy more of the same.

Side note to the Wizards people: Again Ed references this cache of pages upon pages of already typed lore. A small team deployed to the task of scanning all that in would make you rich. IMHO this product could be a foundation for a reboot. SO if you are testing the waters, the answer is “Yes, this what I meant by a reboot. Yes, I want to buy much more of this” Scan it. Sell it to me. Take my money.
And
My Barnes and Noble only had two of these, and mine came straight from the box. So they’re down to one.

Edit:
Gah, Cyric is in it. I saw the dead three, did some premature dancing.
Thrasy was wrong. I am sorry.

Revised score to


Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon".

Edited by - Thrasymachus on 17 Oct 2012 15:02:59

Eilserus
Senior Scribe

USA
983 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2012 :  21:00:02  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just got mine. Ed's hand drawn map of the Dales, Moonsea, Cormyr and part of the Sea of Fallen stars should be released in jpeg format. It'd make a great player's map for characters to have. OK, back to reading! :)
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Razz
Senior Scribe

USA
671 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2012 :  01:50:57  Show Profile  Visit Razz's Homepage  Send Razz an AOL message Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No Time of Troubles because it didn't happen yet. That happened in 1358 D.R. and Year of the Prince is 1357
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
558 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2012 :  02:31:10  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Really no Time of Troubles? Because there's a section in the Gods about Cyric (boo) and...most awful of all, a reference to the Shade princes under Shar's section.

I haven't read enough of the book, but I REALLY REALLY REALLY didn't want to see anything from the 3rd edition in this. I wanted Ed's version of the realms from Pre-ToT (or no time of troubles) not the stuff that he didn't invent or probably even want (like the Time of Troubles and Cyric).

I was pleased that there was at least no Kelemvor god and we had Myrkull and Bhaal and Bane descriptions.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3277 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2012 :  03:35:31  Show Profile  Visit Dalor Darden's Homepage Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just remember the power of the Editor here folks...Ed's Realms might not have something...but an Editor looking forward to a line of products may add in...
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Razz
Senior Scribe

USA
671 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2012 :  04:58:05  Show Profile  Visit Razz's Homepage  Send Razz an AOL message Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
3e stuff I had no problem with. I think Bane's return, and the Shadovar were just perfect, but they should've left it at that
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe

178 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2012 :  15:05:12  Show Profile Send Thrasymachus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

Really no Time of Troubles? Because there's a section in the Gods about Cyric (boo) and...most awful of all, a reference to the Shade princes under Shar's section.

I haven't read enough of the book, but I REALLY REALLY REALLY didn't want to see anything from the 3rd edition in this. I wanted Ed's version of the realms from Pre-ToT (or no time of troubles) not the stuff that he didn't invent or probably even want (like the Time of Troubles and Cyric).

I was pleased that there was at least no Kelemvor god and we had Myrkull and Bhaal and Bane descriptions.


Seravin is right
Gah, Cyric is in it. I saw the dead three, did some premature dancing.
Thrasy was wrong. I am sorry.

Revised score to


Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon".
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe

Canada
891 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2012 :  15:07:44  Show Profile Send Kilvan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Anything in it about the Harper Schism or the Mansoon War? I just got copy via Amazon, I expect the delivery by the end of the week, can't wait! My first Realm sourcebook since Waterdeep: City of Splendor!

Oblivion loomed on every side, the offspring lived, basking in the realization that each moment could be the last moment.
--This was the beauty of chaos
--This was the beauty of Lolth
--This was the doom for all, but one

Quote from "Extinction"
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Razz
Senior Scribe

USA
671 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2012 :  15:18:59  Show Profile  Visit Razz's Homepage  Send Razz an AOL message Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Alright can someone share something from this book that covers something not covered before? Or was covered in very little detail? Like Sossal or the unknown continents or Lantan, etc. Something not rehashed all over again pretty much.

Edited by - Razz on 17 Oct 2012 15:19:48
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2596 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2012 :  15:36:15  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It also talks about how the Manshoon wars lasted into the 1400's...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
864 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2012 :  17:41:56  Show Profile  Visit Matt James's Homepage Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Completely weird that they list Cyric as a god in a book that predates his acsension.

-Matt James
http://www.penandpapergames.com
Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/matt_james_rpg
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1273 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2012 :  18:15:50  Show Profile Send Skeptic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

Completely weird that they list Cyric as a god in a book that predates his acsension.



Possible explanation : Troy Denning is writing a Cyric-related novel in the upcoming Sundering marketing gimmick.

Edited by - Skeptic on 17 Oct 2012 18:18:05
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

5504 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2012 :  18:28:00  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage  Click to see Alaundo's MSN Messenger address Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well met

Aye, i've been looking forward to such a tome, since...ooh as long as I can remember. I'm sure it will be fantastic; I echo Thrasymachus in that my only wish is that it were multi-volume

Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
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Hoondatha
Great Reader

USA
2222 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2012 :  18:40:58  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As requested, a quick listing of things that are new (or at least new to me):

* Uniforms and salutes of Waterdeep's Watch and Guard
* A concise (!) history of the Zhents that finally explains what exactly Manshoon had them up to. Still no Hesperdan, though.
* Listing of popular academies throughout the Realms (more than a page)
* How to properly cook cockatrices and stirges
* Lots on books: popular literature, the trouble with maps, religious writings, broadsheets, literacy in Cormyr
* Dwarven Klingon-like addiction to live worms while drinking
* How to make a common drow wine

And that's just some stuff at random. The gods section, despite Cyric, is really, really good. And yes, there are some mentions of the 1400's sprinkled throughout, but they are always used to show what's changed. The 1350's are always the "base" time.

Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well.
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Eilserus
Senior Scribe

USA
983 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2012 :  19:22:42  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's a great primer I think on Realms culture and how you can bring the world alive. Lots of great details. If there is a follow up to this tome, I'd love to see it start detailing places across the Realms, maybe similar to how the Volo guides approached it: a nice little map, details on a town area to bring it to life, and a crap-ton of adventure hooks and lore ideas for what adventure can be found in the area. :)
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
11622 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2012 :  20:12:58  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

Completely weird that they list Cyric as a god in a book that predates his acsension.
Mad gods ignore time constraints.


The World of Ark - Roleplay in the Age of Legends!
Mark's Maps


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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4552 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2012 :  21:07:39  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I will say this is pretty much what I want in a sourcebook. Going forward, this is how they should be.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4552 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2012 :  00:00:48  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To echo my post in the other thread: As I understand it, the book is meant to be era-neutral, so yeah, some of the things they talk about wont apply to all eras. It's more about how to run the Realms than a snapshot of the Realms at any given point in history.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3493 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2012 :  00:22:07  Show Profile  Visit The Red Walker's Homepage  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

Completely weird that they list Cyric as a god in a book that predates his acsension.



Maybe someone read the cyrinishad to Ed whilst he was sleeping?

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963

Edited by - The Red Walker on 18 Oct 2012 00:23:46
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1025 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2012 :  00:53:27  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As described to me a year back, the book was supposed to be the Forgotten Realms as it exists in Ed's original home campaign. Clearly, that changed at some point to reflect an edition-neutral stance.

Not that the book is bad. It's fantastic.

I was just hoping to see obscure old school Realmslore like Ed's original Moonshae Isles or Tyche being the goddess of luck (instead of Tymora/Beshaba). That sort of thing.

Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames, and please be sure to check out the RED AEGIS Roleplaying Game
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe

Canada
256 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2012 :  03:04:06  Show Profile  Click to see Sylrae's MSN Messenger address Send Sylrae a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmm.

I have yet to see it, and one thing I'm quite apprehensive about. Does it include the 4e deity compression, or eladrin and dragonborn, or 4e Tieflings?

Any spellplague references?

Edited by - Sylrae on 18 Oct 2012 03:06:05
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Hoondatha
Great Reader

USA
2222 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2012 :  03:11:11  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No to all of those. There is one illustration of a 4e tiefling that I saw, but it isn't referencing anything in the surrounding text (or if it is, only very tangentially and not referenced by name).

Most of the 4e stuff is along the lines of: "By the 1400's DR, thus and so that was previously described had shifted to such and such." For instance, in the section on bounty hunters, there's a note that in the 1400's one city made it legal for private citizens to hire bounty hunters to redress private wrongs, and that the practice soon spread. Most of the others are similar.

edit: About the spellplague: someone else in a different thread said it was mentioned once. If true, I haven't found the reference. However, I haven't been reading it cover to cover; I've been jumping around and while I've read most of it by now, I might have missed something. But it's very small, if it's there.

Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well.

Edited by - Hoondatha on 18 Oct 2012 03:12:51
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2596 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2012 :  03:37:25  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

Completely weird that they list Cyric as a god in a book that predates his acsension.



Maybe someone read the cyrinishad to Ed whilst he was sleeping?



"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3493 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2012 :  04:16:18  Show Profile  Visit The Red Walker's Homepage  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James

As described to me a year back, the book was supposed to be the Forgotten Realms as it exists in Ed's original home campaign. Clearly, that changed at some point to reflect an edition-neutral stance.

Not that the book is bad. It's fantastic.

I was just hoping to see obscure old school Realmslore like Ed's original Moonshae Isles or Tyche being the goddess of luck (instead of Tymora/Beshaba). That sort of thing.


That's what I had heard and was expecting as well. Makes me scratch my head in wonder that Ed was filtered or re-interpreted....or had things he had to include.....def not the product we we promised if that's the case......crap now it makes me rethink expectations for future stuff.....double crap!

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963

Edited by - The Red Walker on 18 Oct 2012 04:16:53
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Hoondatha
Great Reader

USA
2222 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2012 :  04:58:42  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's definitely deceptive marketing, and a bad thing on WotC's part.

The good news is that even if it isn't the book we were waiting for, it is a very good book. Better than the vast majority of stuff published in 3e (that it's better than what little came out in 4e goes without saying). If we get more books along this line, with lore based in the 1350's but with brief notes on how things change over time, and if it's new and not rehashing 1e/2e stuff that's already out there, well, then I might just start buying again.

However, they promised us a book of Ed's original Realms as it was when he first turned it over to TSR. They should deliver on that promise.

Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well.
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Master of Realmslore

USA
1962 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2012 :  05:32:55  Show Profile  Visit Jeremy Grenemyer's Homepage Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha

* A concise (!) history of the Zhents that finally explains what exactly Manshoon had them up to.
That's awesome news, given I've just put the Zhentarim on my player's radar (and my players on Manshoon's radar).

Thanks for mentioning that, Hoondatha.

Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
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