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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 01:07:45
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Ugly beings can't be good because writers like to take the easy way out and play to people's prejudices. Drow are, for all practical purpose, worse than orcs could ever be, and yet they're constantly getting redeemed(and constantly getting more material about them) because the player base gets all tingly in the pants whenever they see them. This is the kind of hypocrisy that makes me sick and we need to move past it already.
I'm not saying "make all orcs good". I'm not even saying make most orcs good. What I am saying is give orcs the same potential to be good as any other race- they're just people, for good or ill. That makes a much more interesting story. And allowing them to display a level of intelligence and coordination lets them pose an actual threat- I cannot, physically, tell you how sick I am of every farm boy with a sword managing to guy a 6'6", 300lb raging berserker with years of fighting experience. It doesn't make the heroes look strong, it makes the orcs look weak and pathetic, and it makes the heroes look like sadistic, self righteous monsters for effectively throwing helpless puppies into a blender and having no moral qualms about it because "they're orcs, they're ugly, they're evil". That attitude make me vomit.
Moving on.
quote:
Remember The Orc King, in which King Obould initially was perfectly willing to let Chieftain Grguch launch further violence against the other peoples of the North, breaking the stalemate and effective truce at the end of The Two Swords, and only intervened when he learned that Grguch had plans to overthrow him? This "peaceful" kingdom has only seen a tenuous peace, at best, since it's very beginning. Many orcs would have that peace undone. The Third Orc War, whatever that refers to, would seem to bear that out in a dramatic fashion. And then throw in the mounting calls for renewed violence by the radical conquest-monger shamans, mentioned in the Prologue ca. 1472 DR, and it seems highly likely to me that the orcs went sour on the deal.
It's been a while since I've read the Orc King(and most of what I remember is blurred as every page that didn't have Obould on it was terrible), but if I recall correctly, the 'truce' was never official, simply a break due to winter making full scale warfare impossible, as well as both sides wanting a breather to further entrench themselves and sure up their defenses. It was my impression that Obould had always intended to resume the conflict at least for a while to increase his holdings before forcing the truce, Grguch just forced his hand.
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At any rate, Many-Arrows is said to be an enemy of Luruar in 1479 DR (FRCG), alongside the Netherese and Menzoberranyr.
And the Many-Arrows article mentions that while war may break out at any moment, the two remain in a tense peace and engage in open trade with one another. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 02:12:49
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Actually after just reading the section on it out of the Orc king,
Remember The Orc King, in which King Obould initially was perfectly willing to let Chieftain Grguch launch further violence against the other peoples of the North, breaking the stalemate and effective truce at the end of The Two Swords, and only intervened when he learned that Grguch had plans to overthrow him? This "peaceful" kingdom has only seen a tenuous peace, at best, since it's very beginning. Many orcs would have that peace undone. The Third Orc War, whatever that refers to, would seem to bear that out in a dramatic fashion. And then throw in the mounting calls for renewed violence by the radical conquest-monger shamans, mentioned in the Prologue ca. 1472 DR, and it seems highly likely to me that the orcs went sour on the deal.
Let’s take a look at the orc king for a moment, and a few quotes about it. The story interestingly opens with a group of night riders having a jolly good time with some orcs heads on spikes nearby. Let’s look at these bunch for just a moment, the organization is described as
“Given the reputation of Casin Cu Calas, whose favorite tactic was to storm orc homesteads in the dark of night and decapitate any males found inside, Drizzt found the name more than a little ironic, and more than a little distasteful.”
We have one of Bob’s classic very descriptive fight scenes, during which we have the king showup at the send off for an orc women marrying a human male, what he says at the end of this is significant,
“This is good for our people,” said Taska Toill, Obould’s court advisor. “Each of these extra-racial joinings reinforces the message that is Obould. And that this union is to be sanctified in the former Moonwood is no small thing.”
“The steps are slow,” the king lamented.
“Not so many years ago, we were hunted and killed,” Taska reminded. “Unending war. Conquest and defeat. It has been a century of progress.”
Obould nodded, though he did remark, “We are still hunted,” under his breath. Worse, he thought but did not say, were the quiet barbs, where even those who befriended the people of Many-Arrows did so with a sense of superiority, a deep-set inner voice that told them of their magnanimity in befriending, even championing the cause of such lesser creatures. The surrounding folk of the Silver Marches would often forgive an orc for behavior they would not accept among their own, and that wounded Obould as greatly as those elves, dwarves, and humans who outwardly and openly sneered at his people.”
Let’s be clear about two things, one that a similar statement has been said about the Uthgar barbarians, in siege of darkness. In both cases were dealing with a people that are considered barbaric by civilized folk. So manners and proper behavior to both groups are going to be very, very, different than what is typical for humans and elves, they can pat themselves on the back and say look how much more civilized we are than these savages. We shall raise them up with our better ways, it’s the great civilized burden. Does this sound familiar.
Then we have the elf show up and thid ensues:
“Well met and well done, my friend,” said the elf who ruled the ancient expanse of the Glimmerwood that the elves still called the Moon-wood. He looked around, nodding with approval. “The Night Riders have been dealt yet one more serious blow,” he said, using another of the names for the orc-killing vigilantes, as did all the elves, refusing to assign a title as honorable as Casin Cu Calas to a band they so abhorred.
“One of many we’ll need, I fear, for their numbers do not seem diminished,” said Drizzt.
“They are more visible of late,” Hralien agreed, and dismounted to stand before his old friend. “The Night Riders are trying to take advantage of the unrest in Many-Arrows. They know that King Obould VI is in a tenuous position.” The elf gave a sigh. “As he always seems to be, as his predecessors always seemed to be.”
The language clearly indicates that the “Nightriders”, have been engaging in a persistent effort to remove orcs from the land. However small, and given the party mentioned earlier appear to be relatively well coordinated, would naturally cause some level of unrest. If a group of semi-organized individuals were carrying out nighttime raids against Silvermoon, there’d be unrest too. If the group was well known, or if a group of individuals were suspected in engaging in said actions, then the Silvermoon folk would be crying out for blood. But, look at the response,
“Mithral Hall trade caravan was turned back from Five Tusks,” Hralien said, changing his tone as he shifted the subject. “A similar report comes to us from Silverymoon, where one of their caravans was refused entry to Many-Arrows at Ungoor’s Gate north of Nesmé.”
Any reports of anyone being hurt, any reports of goods taken, or anything other than, you can’t gain entry here? No.
Now, let’s take a look at how the group is described again, their set up, Drizzt Do’Urden crouched in a crevice between a pair of boulders on the side of a mountain, looking down at a curious gathering. A human, an elf, and a trio of dwarves—at least a trio—stood and sat around three flat-bedded wagons that were parked in a triangle around a small campfire. Sacks and kegs dotted the perimeter of the camp, along with a cluster of tents, reminding Drizzt that there was more to the company than the five in his view. He looked past the wagons to a small, grassy meadow, where several draft horses grazed. Just to the side of them, he saw again that which had brought him to the edge of the camp: a pair of stakes capped with the severed heads of orcs.
The band and their missing fellows, then, were indeed members of Casin Cu Calas, the “Triple C,” an organization of vigilantes who took their name from the Elvish saying that meant “honor in battle.”
What does that sound like to you, sounds like a group that could easily disguise itself as a small merchant group. That way they could move about in many arrow territory and attack at will. It’s small wonder then that orcs might not want more merchants that could have killers among their ranks.
Now, I’ll jump forward to Karuck. A group that the three sent for, the discussion between the three indicates that they strongly believed that Obould wasn’t going forward with any further attacks. Indeed, the events with the General indicate as much, long before Karuck starts making waves. I could go on, and name other specific points, but I wont, because I feel that this would just turn into a point by point war over what Obould did or didn’t do, and what he should have done, as if he is an actual being, not a character subject to the whims of people beyond that of the author writing it.
I shall close with this thought, originally I thought the triple C was a KKK rip off, but then on re-reading this work something leaped out at me, “NightRiders.” Anyone might confuse this for another term for the Klan that often did things at night, but there was another group that were given this name. They were a group of bounty hunters, and I mean the kind of people that hunt for money, without necessarily any connection to the law. The Nightriders would hit Indian villages in central and south Texas and then take the scalps down to Mexico, where they’d clamed they were Apache and get paid for it.
Obould VIs comentray is very similar to what a chief made from the Blackfeet tribe in the eighteen eightess, when the “Civilizing” was in full swing.
In fact the line printed in the Texas Sunrise, a widely read paper, almost follows Obould’s statement word for word. Maybe we don’t want to make real world comparisons between fantasy groups, but maybe we should, it’s easy to stereotype a group once you’ve dehumanized them. Orcs with their tusks, and broad flatish noses, and corse manners can easily be described as something less than human. Just something to think about.
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We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 03:19:06
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I would like to see regional stories about how the effects of the spellplaugued places and how people adapted, especially around the genasi and dragonborne land areas. Also anything on Cormyr, the Dale lands, Waterdeep, etc.
I am more interested stories in how societies large and small, survived and adapted |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 05:08:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Ugly beings can't be good because writers like to take the easy way out and play to people's prejudices. Drow are, for all practical purpose, worse than orcs could ever be, and yet they're constantly getting redeemed(and constantly getting more material about them) because the player base gets all tingly in the pants whenever they see them. This is the kind of hypocrisy that makes me sick and we need to move past it already.
No one is arguing for that position, here.
I hate orcs for what they have done.
For what they have done, quite recently.
King Bruenor didn't take Clan Battlehammer into the Ice Mountains and kill orcs. King Obould took his orcs and killed humans, and dwarves. And he didn't do this out of any noble, high-minded ideals of peace and cooperation.
And he didn't do it because he was ugly.
He did it because of the lust for power, and the utter lack of respect for other living beings. He did it because he was evil.
What makes me sick is for apologists to deflect guilt and blame by citing some alleged token mark of victimhood. "What--it's 'cause I'm Black, ain't it?!" BEAST hates orcs; it must be because they're ugly sumbitches, right?
No. It's because of what he did.
And because he got away with it. Apologists helped him to do so.
quote:
I'm not saying "make all orcs good". I'm not even saying make most orcs good. What I am saying is give orcs the same potential to be good as any other race- they're just people, for good or ill. That makes a much more interesting story.
If King Obould had admitted his wrongs, and then surrendered himself to the authorities of the Silver Marches to pay for his transgressions, as an example to the rest of his orcs, then that would've spoken volumes to me. That would've shown me that Obould actually got it--that strength and power and recognition from others are not all that matter, but rather, submission to law and order is a sign of honor and morality. Instead, he showed them that conquest can work, if done correctly, and one can even get his victims to capitulate: might makes right.
The orcs flocked to his call because of that message. And they remained in his kingdom because of that same message. That is the example that he set for them. And so, that's what the orcs show me: they're still, ultimately, about successful conquest, and getting away with it.
As Obould "VI"[/XVI] laments in the Prologue, many orcs revel in the fact that they have continued to get away with thuggish behavior right through the 1470s DR. The stupid human and elven leaders look the other way!
Goodness is not in the orcs' nature, evidently. Maybe it is in some isolated exceptional individuals'. But we still haven't seen many such persons, yet, from the Kingdom of Many-Arrows.
To me, the goodly peoples' indulgence of the orcs in the League of the Silver Marches smacked a lot of a gardener watering and fertilizing a field indiscriminately, nurturing the food crops, flowering plants, and weeds, all alike. In the hopes that the weeds might some day evolve into a crop or a flower, the gardeners have committed themselves to a campaign of rewarding the weeds, just as much as the more desirable plants. And it could just as well turn out that the weeds, having been so dutifully watered and fed, might eventually compete for sustenance with the more desirable plants, and even choke them out. Nurturing them, while they are still just weeds, after all, only encourages them to remain weeds--not to actually evolve into anything. It's aiding and abetting the enemies of the more desirable plants.
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And allowing them to display a level of intelligence and coordination lets them pose an actual threat- I cannot, physically, tell you how sick I am of every farm boy with a sword managing to guy a 6'6", 300lb raging berserker with years of fighting experience. It doesn't make the heroes look strong, it makes the orcs look weak and pathetic, and it makes the heroes look like sadistic, self righteous monsters for effectively throwing helpless puppies into a blender and having no moral qualms about it because "they're orcs, they're ugly, they're evil". That attitude make me vomit.
I'll agree with you, here. There is too much of writers making villainous races out to be empty, mass fodder for the goodly heroes, and not enough substantive depictions of the villains as real threats. I wanna be made to fear my villains--not just go along with the heroes for the slaughter.
I think that my mind fills in a lot of the blanks left by writers, and I imagine additional horrors and crimes perpetrated by those villains, so I more or less feel all right about the slaughter. But I'd rather feel great about it, because the villains proved themselves worthy of being terminated, instead of me simply going along with the writer.
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It's been a while since I've read the Orc King(and most of what I remember is blurred as every page that didn't have Obould on it was terrible), but if I recall correctly, the 'truce' was never official, simply a break due to winter making full scale warfare impossible, as well as both sides wanting a breather to further entrench themselves and sure up their defenses. It was my impression that Obould had always intended to resume the conflict at least for a while to increase his holdings before forcing the truce, Grguch just forced his hand.
That's actually exactly my point. Obould was no good, from the beginning. All of this propaganda about WOTC/RAS making up a tale of goodly orcs is based on nothing--it's hype, on top of empty air. Obould was all about conquest. He wanted that conquest to last, and he was smart enough to figure out a better way than wanton, crazed, chaotic attacks. But he was still all about the typical, traditional orc goal.
It was the apologists, like Alustriel and Drizzt, who interpreted the effective truce after The Two Swords as a sign of potential peace, and maybe even goodness, on Obould's part. They read into the ceasefire what they wanted to see.
But The Orc King shows us that Obould was perfectly willing to go along with Grguch and his campaign of even more violence. Thus, the apologists' interpretation was proven completely wrong (to us, as readers).
Throw in the fact that Gruumsh promoted Obould to exarch status, while maintaining largely the same portfolio and principles as he has always had, and you've got a pretty good body of evidence that Obould was just rotten, to the core.
All of this talk of a goodly orc kingdom is nothing but lipstick on a pig.
So the orcs' tiring of playing allies to the rest of the goodly peoples of the North was inevitable, IMO. They were bound to turn, eventually. And I'd like to see that played out.
quote:
And the Many-Arrows article mentions that while war may break out at any moment, the two remain in a tense peace and engage in open trade with one another.
The Luruar article, however, does not label the humans and the elves as the bitter enemies of the orcs. The Many-Arrows article does, however, paint orcs in that light, regarding the other races. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 05:44:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Euranna
I would like a novel about Cormyr that is post Alusair. :D We waited for so long to see little Azoun take the throne...and poof. :(
I would also like to know what happened to Myth Drannor after the Return.
I would love to read about the time around the Spellpague like they are going to do with The Sundering. How did mages survive if they did, or Mystra's clerics? (Or any of the other gods that died/went poof/were shown to being some other god's aspect)
What happened to the dark elves that were released from the curse? How did the drow take/deal with it? What about other races (specifically the other elves)?
That is all I can think of at the moment. I am sure I will come up with more stuff.
Richard Baker wrote Blades of the Moonsea trilogy, in which one of the settings is Myth Drannor. It takes place in 1479, so around when most of the post-Spellplague novels have taken place, so not the "in between" era we're talking about here, but if you're looking for a glimpse of restored Myth Drannor, it's a good one  I myself would like to see more novels set in returned Myth Drannor too.
I would also like to see novels on the reactions of churches to the death/transformation of the gods. Like, did those whose gods survive react (probably breathing a sigh of relief, but it'd be interesting to see where those who had lost their gods turned). Or, how did the church of Lathander react during the Deliverence (when he became Amaunataur)? I tried to keep up with the 4e novels, even though I wasn't a fan of the Spellplague. I wanted to know what was going on. But I didn't remember reading anything about Hanali being an aspect of Sune, and in fact didn't find out until I bought the 4e FRCG.
It would also be interesting to see novels set in a decade or so after the Spellplague (like someoone mentioned the Abolethic Sovereignty as example). Maybe ones set in Waterdeep. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 07:58:13
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Well, I'm a professional fantasy author and I don't ascribe to the "ugly = evil" philosophy. The discussion about Many Arrows is fascinating, but maybe it belongs in the Many-Arrows specific thread?
I'll add my voice to wanting to see stories of the orcs over the Silent Century. As I said, I have a whole novel outlined there, on the scope of Cormyr: A Novel.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 08:04:40
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I would also prefer to move any further discussion on the topic towards the Many-Arrows thread.
Though on the subject of a novel, if I might blow my own horn here; Erik, should you ever get the idea greenlit, and if you like any of the ideas in my write up, feel free to take any of them. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 14:17:23
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Is it possible that this new 5E will be available for every era of the FR and the materials that will be released like novels or sourcebooks will be like the new Menzo book, let's say for example a new book about Luskan. Includes information about the pre-tot era and about era of upheavel and about spellplague and post-spellplague and so on with probably less 4E lore than the others. And novels could be like a novel that sets in the past, one in the present etc.
And if the Wizards can set up the world of the present really good, like if they listen to the players and bring back what they were upset about the most (like dark seldarine for example) I think after some time they will release exclusive books that are set in "present" |
Edited by - farinal on 13 Oct 2012 14:21:46 |
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Euranna
Learned Scribe
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 23:51:33
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Richard Baker wrote Blades of the Moonsea trilogy, in which one of the settings is Myth Drannor. It takes place in 1479, so around when most of the post-Spellplague novels have taken place, so not the "in between" era we're talking about here, but if you're looking for a glimpse of restored Myth Drannor, it's a good one I myself would like to see more novels set in returned Myth Drannor too.
Thank you. I think I will have to add this to my "stack" of boots to read. :D
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
It would also be interesting to see novels set in a decade or so after the Spellplague (like someoone mentioned the Abolethic Sovereignty as example). Maybe ones set in Waterdeep.
Or a series of short stories in an anthology maybe? A little taste around the Realms? |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2012 : 04:39:28
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@Euranna: you're welcome :) I don't know if you read Anthology of the Elves, but the last story in there takes place during the reclaiming of Myth Drannor, and it is from the perspective of an elf named Daried, who is in Sevierl's (I know I spelled that wrong)army, and he makes a "guest star" appearance in Blades of the Moonsea. And an anthology of "around the Realms" might be interesting *nods*
@BEAST: speaking of the prologue and epilogue of the Orc King, I'd like to see more of Hralien and Tos'un (I know he's married to Sinnafein (sp?)), but that prologue has not been addressed since. Then again, the problem I've noticed with a lot of Realms novels is, you do a follow-up series featuring certain characters from past series, those characters have a tendancy to be kiiled off :/ |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2012 : 04:57:25
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I also would rather like to see a book on the last years of the High lady of Silvermoon and who her son handled the transition.
Or have I already said that? |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2012 : 05:03:46
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| I do not remember, but on a site like this, it is often good to reiterate your opinions, IMO. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2012 : 17:57:34
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quote:
Originally posted by farinal
Is it possible that this new 5E will be available for every era of the FR and the materials that will be released like novels or sourcebooks will be like the new Menzo book, let's say for example a new book about Luskan. Includes information about the pre-tot era and about era of upheavel and about spellplague and post-spellplague and so on with probably less 4E lore than the others. And novels could be like a novel that sets in the past, one in the present etc.
Yes, that's very possible. That's what I have been advocating! I would love an era-open Realms.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 02:17:52
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Something else I would have liked to have seen would have been novels dealing the the formation of the Order of Blue Fire and their exploits.
I found them to be a very interesting faction and I would have loved to have seen more done with them. With the Spellplague being drastically reduced in 5e I don't see any further progression coming from them, which makes me sad.
Come to think of it I had an idea a few years back where I thought that if they were to do another Baldur's Gate style video game the Order of Blue Fire would have made for excellent protagonists. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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jornan
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 03:50:08
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| Open-Era would be the best thing to happen to the Realms after the Sundering "Fixes" it. I'm all for the world both moving forward and fleshing out what has come before. The biggest issue would be making sure continuity occurs, but if WotC tapped into the online community and then just paid someone to be a fact checker after the community did most of the work, I think it would be quite easy to maintain. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 04:24:26
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| You'd think that. Then again, Marvel and DC have full time fact checkers who do nothing but try and keep continuity straight and they consider it a job well done if they're succeeding 60% of the time. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 05:44:01
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Yeah, I'd call it "essential"--never "easy". I struggle as a passionate fanboy just with the Drizzt stuff, alone.
And Erik, it finally sunk in that I really needed to shut up about that subject for now. I'm doing so out of respect for your hopeful future novel, and not making it any more difficult for you. Bob says he sometimes has to deliberately stay far away from his own boards for fear of fans unduly influencing whatever he's working on, so I feel ya. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 10:45:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
You'd think that. Then again, Marvel and DC have full time fact checkers who do nothing but try and keep continuity straight and they consider it a job well done if they're succeeding 60% of the time.
That may be true, but there's a slight difference, there: WotC isn't publishing a dozen new things every week, 52 weeks a year, going back decades. There is a much smaller pool of Realms canon than there is Marvel canon, and both are smaller than DC canon. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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LastStand
Learned Scribe
130 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 13:34:42
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I would like to know what the Pact of the New Moon[1] were up to during this time.
Selune went to great lengths to resurrect this order (Mistress of the Night) Now that she has ascended to greater deity and the fact that the Leafs of One Night was successfully recovered which in turn lead to the summoning of the Shadowstorm, you would think she would double her efforts to thwart her sisters plans – and doing this by using her order of lycanthropes. Does the Pact still exist? Are they still making the difficult decisions for good to prevail?
Not only do they still have their deity when a lot of others do not, but she has increased in power as well.
[1] Consists solely of lycanthropes sworn to Selûne, carrying out the most secretive and violent aspects of Selûne's work. (Wikipedia)
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"Don't. The battlegrounds that you and I have returned from alive are too different."
~ Claymore ch106 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 17:12:00
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Origins of the Order of Blue Fire is a cool idea. Probably a full novel is reaching too far, but a short story/novella would be great.
There are also lots of non-Spellplague-timejump stories I'd like to see in short fiction, like Bane's Return, or a story set during the Manshoon Wars, or the fall of the Night Masks (pending their eventual return, ahem!).
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Yeah, I'd call it "essential"--never "easy". I struggle as a passionate fanboy just with the Drizzt stuff, alone.
And Erik, it finally sunk in that I really needed to shut up about that subject for now. I'm doing so out of respect for your hopeful future novel, and not making it any more difficult for you. Bob says he sometimes has to deliberately stay far away from his own boards for fear of fans unduly influencing whatever he's working on, so I feel ya.
Likewise. And do not doubt that if/when I get the chance to write such a novel for the Realms, I will be knocking on your door for a consult.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 18:49:20
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quote:
Originally posted by LastStand
I would like to know what the Pact of the New Moon[1] were up to during this time.
Selune went to great lengths to resurrect this order (Mistress of the Night) Now that she has ascended to greater deity and the fact that the Leafs of One Night was successfully recovered which in turn lead to the summoning of the Shadowstorm, you would think she would double her efforts to thwart her sisters plans – and doing this by using her order of lycanthropes. Does the Pact still exist? Are they still making the difficult decisions for good to prevail?
Not only do they still have their deity when a lot of others do not, but she has increased in power as well.
[1] Consists solely of lycanthropes sworn to Selûne, carrying out the most secretive and violent aspects of Selûne's work. (Wikipedia)
Yes! Selune used to be a pretty big part of the Realms and she should have had a pretty big spotlight considering all the attention Shar has gotten. Kind of a travesty if you ask me. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 21:35:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
There are also lots of non-Spellplague-timejump stories I'd like to see in short fiction, like Bane's Return, or a story set during the Manshoon Wars, or the fall of the Night Masks (pending their eventual return, ahem!).
Those are definitely other novels that I would like to see. The Night Masks storyline might make a good historical novel for Westgate (a la Cormyr and Evermeet). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 03:30:52
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While I would be perfectly content never seeing a single drow in another Forgotten Realms book, I know that isn't going to happen. So, what I would like to see is less focus on Menzoberranzan and more focus on Undrek'Thoz. This is the city that's actually interesting. Lolth's priests aren't in power, there's open trade with the surface world allowing new ideas to filter in. There's a close connection to Thay which can connect to other plots.
Who needs Menzoberranzan? Undrek'Thoz is where it's at. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 04:04:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
While I would be perfectly content never seeing a single drow in another Forgotten Realms book, I know that isn't going to happen. So, what I would like to see is less focus on Menzoberranzan and more focus on Undrek'Thoz. This is the city that's actually interesting. Lolth's priests aren't in power, there's open trade with the surface world allowing new ideas to filter in. There's a close connection to Thay which can connect to other plots.
Who needs Menzoberranzan? Undrek'Thoz is where it's at.
I approve this message. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 05:07:10
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| I disapprove, but that is not to say I wouldn't like to see a story take place in Undrek'Thoz. But I want to see more drow novels. They've been quiet in 4e. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 05:33:15
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Thanks, Erik! Here's hoping you/we get that green light. :)
I think CoA's onto something, at least insofar as 5E is supposed to be about telling the smaller tales of the Realms. Why must everything be about one drow city. Doesn't anything ever happen in any of the other ones? Yes, as a Drizzt fan, the only ones that have ever personally interested me in the past were Menzo and Ched Nasad, since they're directly mentioned in Bob's books. But in order to be true to the Realms as a whole, we should be getting more tales on those other settlements, too. It would seem like their alternative political/organizational structures would provide inspiration for the creative writer types to branch out beyond the familiar Menzo matriarchy model. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 05:40:26
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Gods be good, me and BEAST agree on something.
But seriously, this is coming from comments in other threads about how the drow have no room for change or growth because they're "hopelessly brainwashed and indoctrinated" by Lolth's clergy. I think showing something beyond that, adding some variety to the drow would go along way towards improving opinions of them. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 05:52:08
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As I said, I am not opposed to a drow novel taking place in another drow city. It would be interesting, and I'd probably read it. I wasn't trying to imply I would like every drow story to take place in Menzo, I'm just saying that I personally think Menzo is a good setting, and that I would like more drow stories--which works well with it taking place in other cities.
I am sorry if it sounded like I ONLY want drow novels taking place in Menzo. That is not what I meant. I just meant we shouldn't completely ignore it and the drow in 5e. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 06:05:51
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I think Menzo has the potential to be an interesting setting. I wouldn't say that it is. I feel it's stagnated too long. Bob seems to like to maintain a certain status quo there, which is fine. I'd just like something new, a breath of fresh air considering that Menzo is literally all we're getting.
Then again, I wouldn't mind drow being ignored completely, either. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 01:09:43
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| While I'm at it, I'd like to see some future novels dedicated to the conflict between the churches of Bane and Cyric. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Topic |
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Fleshing out the Spellplague time jump.
