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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 09:08:00
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Well, I bought it and read it, and here's my opinion:
The Good:
1.Q'alyrn Melarn survived. He's my favorite character from the series, and I was glad to see he made it.
2.Lloth didn't get all her way. Read the epilogue and you'll understand.
The Bad. Where to start? There's a lot of it....
1.Eilistraee is dead. As predicted, there's only one drow god left. Wotcs pruning of the divinities continues unabated.
2.Qilue is dead, and to add insult to injury, she didn't merely die, her soul was destroyed. Now there's only five left of the seven sisters, and I'll bet you 50 euros Wotc will find a way to kill the remaining five soon. And speaking of Qilue, she messed up a lot with the Wendonai situation. Did she really think she could mess with a Balor of that age and power and not get fracked?
3.Halisstra. The trilogy is named after her, but if she's supposed to be the main character she's doing a really rotten job. She also did in both Qilue AND Eilistraee because she was tricked by Lloth(for the, what, 6443th time?) She's the most pathetic character I've ever had the misfortune to read about in a Realms novel.
4.The idea that the dark elves were originally brown, not black, seems offensive to me. It's like, ”while we were good we were brown, but when we got cursed and became evil we became black”. I hope the Reverend Jeremiah Wright doesn't hear about that gem...
5.The idea of being inherently evil. They said that now the drow who followed Eilistraee have been transformed back to dark elves, the remainder have no hope of being saved, what with Eilistraee gone and all. They are Lloth's, forever. Sure, if something is extraplanar then I accept that it can be inherently evil, but not if it's of the Prime. That's the same reason I detest the phrase ”the good races” from the Drizzt books. There are elves, humans, dwarves, gnomes and halflings out there far more evil that most orcs and goblinoids could even imagine. And the ”millions of dark elves have the blood of a balor in them so most are irredeemable” is bollocks. That was, what, 20.000 years ago? Surely that taint has been diluted. And take Magadon from the Erevis Cale books. He's a half-devil, for Ao's sake, and he's not evil!
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If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 14:18:07
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
2.Qilue is dead, and to add insult to injury, she didn't merely die, her soul was destroyed.
They seem to want to make sure that there is no way to bring back the "hated" chosen. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
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Cyria
Acolyte
20 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 19:26:07
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Now there's only five left of the seven sisters, and I'll bet you 50 euros Wotc will find a way to kill the remaining five soon.
I think Alustriel might be allowed to survive, but the rest...
quote:
5.The idea of being inherently evil. They said that now the drow who followed Eilistraee have been transformed back to dark elves, the remainder have no hope of being saved, what with Eilistraee gone and all. They are Lloth's, forever. Sure, if something is extraplanar then I accept that it can be inherently evil, but not if it's of the Prime. That's the same reason I detest the phrase ”the good races” from the Drizzt books. There are elves, humans, dwarves, gnomes and halflings out there far more evil that most orcs and goblinoids could even imagine. And the ”millions of dark elves have the blood of a balor in them so most are irredeemable” is bollocks. That was, what, 20.000 years ago? Surely that taint has been diluted. And take Magadon from the Erevis Cale books. He's a half-devil, for Ao's sake, and he's not evil!
Not a fan of this development if it's as bad as it sounds. The most prominent Realms writer has introduced an orc nation "good" races can actually live with in his latest novel, but the remaining drow become irredeemable? Rather contradictory. All the future generations of this mortal race have been deprived of free will and the ability to choose a non-evil deity to worship? |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 19:43:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyria
[quote]
Not All the future generations of this mortal race have been deprived of free will and the ability to choose a non-evil deity to worship?
That's the impression I got from the end of the book. I quote: "But the rest!" Lashrael wailed. "Thousands! Hundreds of thousands! No hope of redemption for them, with Eilistraee gone. Condemned to darkness and despair, forevermore!"
So the 20%(according to Ed Greenwood, and probably more since she absorbed the worshippers of Vhareaun) of the drow who worshipped The Dancer were turned back to dark elves and redeemed, but the remaining 80 something% are, for a lack of a better word, fracked. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
Edited by - khorne on 01 Jun 2008 19:45:40 |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 21:59:48
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That is so many kinds of wrong I really don't know what to say.
A chosen few redeemed and the rest hung out to dry? @_@ those are not my Realms.
Regarding the Seven Sisters: Someone please tell me that Dove will live long and well and die of old age rather than some concentrated effort from some nefarious group. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2008 : 22:30:10
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
4.The idea that the dark elves were originally brown, not black, seems offensive to me. It's like, ”while we were good we were brown, but when we got cursed and became evil we became black”...
I find that to be rather offensive, myself.
quote:
5.The idea of being inherently evil. They said that now the drow who followed Eilistraee have been transformed back to dark elves, the remainder have no hope of being saved, what with Eilistraee gone and all. They are Lloth's, forever. Sure, if something is extraplanar then I accept that it can be inherently evil, but not if it's of the Prime. That's the same reason I detest the phrase ”the good races” from the Drizzt books. There are elves, humans, dwarves, gnomes and halflings out there far more evil that most orcs and goblinoids could even imagine. And the ”millions of dark elves have the blood of a balor in them so most are irredeemable” is bollocks. That was, what, 20.000 years ago? Surely that taint has been diluted. And take Magadon from the Erevis Cale books. He's a half-devil, for Ao's sake, and he's not evil!
I've read the first two books, and agree that the ideas about redemption put forth in this series are pretty wonky. From what I've read about this last book so far (and there's a discussion thread about it on the WotC board), these wonky ideas continue.
All in all, this is yet another example of things I love about the setting being twisted around and destroyed. I'm so glad I don't care about making my Realms be in lockstep with the canon version. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 01 Jun 2008 22:33:30 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2008 : 01:28:35
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Well this player of Drow characters clearly will not have them worship Lolth (Lloth). I was sure Lolth would not die, I had hoped Daddy or AO would interfer.
Just another example of distroting the Realms to become a more points of light type of place. *sighs* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2008 : 14:01:13
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Well, TGHotR told us (as in: "rewrote the canon") that the "dark elves" were originally a darker version of the green elves (within Realmspace).
Brown, black, redemption, irredeemable ... this all looks so desperately like re-creating an easy black & white / good & evil picture for future generations. Much like God and Devil. Soon, the "drow" will simple be back to the worse old Greyhawk days, nigh to no logical explanation for their 12,000 year survival, but lots of bloodshed and spider-kissing slaughterers. Things the Realms had shed about 20 years ago.
I do feel for Lisa here, I really do. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 02 Jun 2008 14:03:09 |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2008 : 15:39:46
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Well, if it was a character who said that Drow were condemned then it could just be a case of a character being completely wrong. It's not like any character should be omniscient.
It could also be a case of the character despairing over the lack of a "good influence" in Drow lives, since they don't have a balance against Lloth then it's less likely that a Drow will understand that there is another path in life.
But, I haven't read the book so I don't know how these things were presented. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2008 : 15:48:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Well, TGHotR told us (as in: "rewrote the canon") that the "dark elves" were originally a darker version of the green elves (within Realmspace).
I find the basic trope behind it troubling: "In order to truly be redeemed, your dark skin needs to be lightened."
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2008 : 15:49:27
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
Well, if it was a character who said that Drow were condemned then it could just be a case of a character being completely wrong. It's not like any character should be omniscient.
Very true. That very point was argued extensively regarding an issue in the second book (Cavatina vs. Wedonai). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2008 : 17:12:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
Well, if it was a character who said that Drow were condemned then it could just be a case of a character being completely wrong. It's not like any character should be omniscient.
Very true. That very point was argued extensively regarding an issue in the second book (Cavatina vs. Wedonai).
Ah, yes, Wendonai, who completely suckered Qilue in the novel. Another thing that grated with me in this book was how completely Qilue managed to mess up. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2008 : 22:32:21
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You know, I had for a long time just assumed that the Ilythiiri looked a lot like they did once they became drow. Even when comments like "physical change" came up, I pictured that as having more to do with drow not being as tall as other elves, drow having red eyes, drow eyes not being able to stand sunlight, drow living less time than surface elves do.
Heck, I always thought it would be cool (before WoW mind you), to run into a portal to another world where there were still Night Elves, who look just like drow but with violet eyes, taller stature, and no real vulnerability to sunlight, just a preference for moonlight.
Ironically, I think they may have tried to do this to try and tackle the race analogy, and ended up making it worse. |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2008 : 23:51:01
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The way I see it, it has nothing do with their skin being lightened, rather having their appearance restored to its original state. In other words, if dark elves had been green before their transformation into drow, then they would now all be green.
Dark elves' having lighter skin before the Descent is nothing new. This has been canon since at least second edition sourcebook Complete Book of Elves and possibly older.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Well, TGHotR told us (as in: "rewrote the canon") that the "dark elves" were originally a darker version of the green elves (within Realmspace).
I find the basic trope behind it troubling: "In order to truly be redeemed, your dark skin needs to be lightened."
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2008 : 01:10:28
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
4.The idea that the dark elves were originally brown, not black, seems offensive to me. It's like, ”while we were good we were brown, but when we got cursed and became evil we became black”.
That's one of the stupider things I've ever heard. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2008 : 01:21:19
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Well black = evil clearly has been a theme though much of the culture.
Brian R. James is far more sudied in the Lore then I am, but even I know Dark Elves were transformed into Black Elves, I never got the full sense of details but clearly Sunlight became a problem for all Dark Elves, no matter how good or Evil they were.
"The Descent" was stupid as far as it goes, however that (along with changing) has been part of the lore for over something near 20 years. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 04 Jun 2008 02:25:56 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2008 : 10:01:57
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Cormanthyr (the FR source from 1998) says about the skin-colour (and that is AFAIK one of the earliest notes on that, not least with regards to the Realms):
quote:
While the original Dark Elves from before the Crown Wars were merely dusky elves with pale hair, the drow of the Underdark have, over the millennia of exile, darkened to obsidian and taken on their more familiar visages as enemies
p. 126
Hence - and as the Elven Timeline of Faerûn (same book) does not link the green elves and the dark elves in any way - I was somewhat "surprised" to see the dark elves being turned into green elves in TGHotR.
Lisa Smedman, in Storm of the Dead, verified why the drow had to leave the surface, i.e. a result of that High Magic ritual "drawing" them below ground. The faerzress being the source here, as well as the source for the drow's innate faerie ( = faerzress) fire. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 04 Jun 2008 10:02:24 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2008 : 12:31:31
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| The skin colour isn't what bothers me most, though. It's the fact that Lolth is now the only remaining drow god. Through all these years that I've read books about drow, the thing about them that appealed most to me was the possibility of redemption. Here we have a race of black-hearted killers, but there is a goddess out there who wants to save them. I will never forget that scene in Baldur's Gate 2 where Solaufein tells me that he follows Eilistraee and dreams of a better life(that game was my first encounter with the realms in general and drow in particular). To have the foundation of my view of the drow taken away like that is....unsettling. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2008 : 16:51:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Dark elves' having lighter skin before the Descent is nothing new. This has been canon since at least second edition sourcebook Complete Book of Elves and possibly older.
You may be correct (to be honest, I've heard contradictory things about what dark elves looked like before the "Fall"), but even if that's the case, I still think the idea behind it is dubious. And I think it's dubious whether or not it's a cultural trope (cultural ideas can be faulty, and even dangerous). The fact that "black=evil" is an old idea doesn't mean it's above criticism. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 04 Jun 2008 16:54:03 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2008 : 18:30:44
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
The skin colour isn't what bothers me most, though. It's the fact that Lolth is now the only remaining drow god. Through all these years that I've read books about drow, the thing about them that appealed most to me was the possibility of redemption. Here we have a race of black-hearted killers, but there is a goddess out there who wants to save them. I will never forget that scene in Baldur's Gate 2 where Solaufein tells me that he follows Eilistraee and dreams of a better life(that game was my first encounter with the realms in general and drow in particular). To have the foundation of my view of the drow taken away like that is....unsettling.
FWIW, the followerrs of Eilistraee at http://www.eilistraee.com/forums/index.php simplly will not accept 4th Edition FR or 4th Edition. In fact the hostess is talking about deleting all references to WotC website. The beginning of a boycot prehaps. Though the members of that site is rather small.
I played good Drow before I learned of the Dark Maiden and I can now keep her alive no matter what canon says. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2008 : 20:01:54
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Another thing that has been mentioned on other forums. In the end, Corellon didn't show any emotion whatsoever over the fact that his DAUGHTER had just died! It would have been good if he had swooped in with a "you piece of @%#¤, you killed my daughter!". But now he didn't seem to care.
Ps. Anyone else running out of favorite gods? There are many deities in the realms that I like but the top five are:
1. Helm. I first encountered that faith in BG2, and the line "never betray trust. Such is the will of the vigilant one" was awesome to my 12-year old ears. The concept of the guardian really appealed to me.
2. Lathander. He is a bit of a snob, but his portfolio of new beginnings really grips me. I can remember that as a small child I loved stories where they built stuff above all others.
3. Eilistraee. For simply being awesome.
4. Mystra. The Mother of Magic, the One True Spell.
5. Hoar. Vengeance and poetic justice appeal to me. Plus, someone known as the Doombringer and Lord of Three Thunders just has to be loved.
So what has happened to them?
-Helm. Killed, and by Tyr no less.
-Mystra. Killed, by the ultraloser Cyric.
-Lathander. According to what I have heard he's going to change into Amaunator.
-Eilistraee. Dead.
-Hoar. Told he will choose good or evil in 4th edition.
That's only 1 out of 5 left folks, and considering WotCs current love affair with Shar Hoar will probably end up serving her. I feel depressed... |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2008 : 23:33:33
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| Well, you know, Corellon is unaligned in 4th edition . . . |
Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 04 Jun 2008 23:37:33 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2008 : 02:28:05
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Ps. Anyone else running out of favorite gods?
Yup.
I've always liked Lathander, so I'm not happy to see him gone. I'm especially unhappy with the the method of his leaving. I've never liked the tripartite sun deity idea, and even if it was a good idea, I don't see how he could go from "young and vigorous" to an entirely different persona in a mere century.
Nobanion is another fave. And they've nerfed him down to an Exarch.
With Nobanion nerfed, Lurue, my fave Realms deity, is also likely to be nerfed to an Exarch. Ditto for Finder. And I'm doubting Shaundakul will still remain as a deity.
Eilistraee is another personal fave, and she's gone...
And don't get me started on them offing Mystra...  |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1072 Posts |
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initiate
Learned Scribe
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2008 : 18:46:16
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This ... makes me very sad. Another favourite deity dead. Another favourite character dead. [Qilue.] Some disturbing and funky stuff about redemption, [regardless of how old the lore is]. And to think I spent money on Sacrifice of the Widow...
Yes, yes, I too feel that I am running out of favourite deities. In fact, I feel that I am running out of favourite elements of the setting overall. For every aspect of the Realms that has evolved, [and there certainly are some], there is at least one other that has been beaten up, obliterated, or changed beyond all recognition. The whole vibe of my favourite movers and shakers, my favourite deities, some of my favourite locales, being "nuked" is very very unwelcoming. I may have to jump on the Pathfinder train. Its getting to the point where I really would have rather WotC just ended the line, but such may well not be in their power. I shall now shrug, sigh, and perhaps keep working on my embryonic alternate timeline. Yet I find of late that I can't really muster the energy to even care about changing all the things they're smashing up for my own personal use. |
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Lord of Bones
Seeker
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2008 : 22:58:13
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| May I ask; is Ghaunadaur gone now as well? That's what i'm picking up, if there are no other drow deities but Lolth. |
Come watch the Gentleman's Guide to Gaming!
http://www.youtube.com/user/clackclickbang
On my channel I review and dissect role-playing games with great gusto. Please do take a look and let me know what you think. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2008 : 23:47:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord of Bones
May I ask; is Ghaunadaur gone now as well? That's what i'm picking up, if there are no other drow deities but Lolth.
Well intial reports indicated he went deeper and thus has less worshipers amoung the Drow.
He might well be dead or near dead as far as 4th goes, it has been indicated that the Slime God clearly loses worshipers from Drow.
All in all until official release is made I can not say for certaincy anything. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 09 Jun 2008 04:19:30 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2008 : 01:38:53
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| My guess would be that since they mentioned Lolth finding him to be a more ancient and powerful foe than she thought he was, that WOTC might be seeking to tie him to the "primordials" that they have introduced as the prehistoric (Greek) Titan like enemies of the gods. But that's just a guess. |
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Lord of Bones
Seeker
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2008 : 11:39:17
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Being something of a Cthulhu fan, I'm hoping they don't just off the big ooze.
I read the thread linked to this novel on the WOTC boards, and there's some real venom going on, isn't there? I know feelings on 4th Edition have been running very high, but it seems that this additional blow to the Forgotten Realms has made some folks get incredibly angry and bitter.
I've got to be honest, from what I've read here, I doubt I'll be buying the novel. I've never been a huge fan of the drow, but this entire 'genericising' thing that they seem determined to do strikes me as a mistake. I don't really see the point in having campaign settings if they're all ultimately similar in concept.
Viva la Pathfinder. |
Come watch the Gentleman's Guide to Gaming!
http://www.youtube.com/user/clackclickbang
On my channel I review and dissect role-playing games with great gusto. Please do take a look and let me know what you think. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2008 : 21:02:26
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Ps. Anyone else running out of favorite gods?
Well, in the sense that many of the gods I like are getting killed off? Yes. And many elements of the setting in general that I liked are being deleted, or changed beyond recognition. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 09 Jun 2008 21:04:23 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2008 : 09:45:43
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| IMHO ... had they introduced a new pantheon and gave us a fair explanation about the why's as well as telling people that there would be no problem if they'd use the old one, much of the fuss and anger and annoyance could have been avoided. But the mess of killing this deity and that one, slaughterring the goddess of magic is surely one of the greatest downsides of the ascendance of 4E. It makes up about 40% of my unwillingness to touch anything 4E, a further 40% come from the 'Spellplague deus-ex-machina' tool used to "make the Realms 4E suitable". The final 20% come from the actual outline of the new system, which does not really look like D&D to may any longer. But that's just me. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 10 Jun 2008 09:58:20 |
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Ascendancy of the last. Heavy spoilers
