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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Sep 2012 : 16:37:30
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Hoping for a few tweaks myself. For me when the lifespan was changed to around 200 years....Elves stopped being Elves...while still a very long time compared to avg humans, it is nowhere near long enough for Elves to have this extemely long view(like most of a millenium) of things I envision in elves. In my mind it is just not a big enough difference to account for the differences between tham and the shorter lived species. Id prefer going back to 750 at minimum....really like to see 800-ish, with some very long lived outliers of closer to 1600.
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 14 Sep 2012 16:39:06
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2012 : 17:15:16
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| Gerbils |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2012 : 18:02:53
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| No doubt Elves, Drow, and Eladrin will have to be fixed, along with halflings, aasmir and devas and other races that got reconed by 4e in a way that doesn't completely invaliadate them either. Fixing continuity will be the hardest part of the designers job. |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2012 : 18:06:38
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| Maybe elven death, passing to Arvandor, will happen when they become world-weary, tired. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2012 : 18:20:50
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Hoping for a few tweaks myself. For me when the lifespan was changed to around 200 years....Elves stopped being Elves...
Let's be clear. Elves in the CORE went to a shorter lifespan. That's not a reason to think elves in the Realms don't still live as long as they always have.
We have evidence quite to the opposite, in fact, in 4e-based products. My moon elf character Fox-at-Twilight (born 1297) is 183 in 1480, and she's the human equivalent of 30ish. Drizzt (coincidentally born the same year) is the same age, and he's DEFINITELY not in his twilight years of life.
I do agree that a vast lifespan is essential for the concept of elves in general, and in the Realms in particular.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2012 : 20:06:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Gerbils
I was hoping dead.
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2012 : 21:32:08
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Good point Erik.
Oh and I don't get the Gerbil reference. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2012 : 23:00:10
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| they'll be naked with the ashes of Elminster taking over their bodies for little private orgies |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2012 : 23:38:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Good point Erik.
Oh and I don't get the Gerbil reference.
Would you believe Wombats?
Sorry, in the middle of Ring of Winter ATM, and my brain is stuck in 'huge talking rodent mode'.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2012 : 20:57:03
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I'd like to see elves being elves and not sun/high elves being eladrin. Eladrin are from the Feywild. Though, I guess that wish doesn't apply to the novels so much.
@Marc: like in LOTR. Admittedly, I never finished that series, but one of my best friends is a huge LOTR fan, and she said that when elves become weary of the world, they can lay down and die and pass to the afterlife. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2012 : 10:05:50
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| The weariness, that's from LotR, tough they had to sail west to the immortal lands. The Complete Book of Elves has a chapter on elven death, I think inspired by LotR. So if the 5th edition is all about options, the elves could pass on from they're 200 to whatever the DM wants. The environment could affect their weariness, if the planet is like Athas, or there's no Weave. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2012 : 15:29:04
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I'd like to see elves being elves and not sun/high elves being eladrin. Eladrin are from the Feywild. Though, I guess that wish doesn't apply to the novels so much.
Well, elves are also from the Feywild (originally), as are even drow, who were originally elves, or at least the same thing that eladrin/elves/drow were originally (their common ancestor). But that's beside the point.
In the realms, "eladrin" is a term used mostly by sages and people who want to be really technical. And in certain locales (such as Waterdeep, Westgate, etc) it has at times over the past century been "trendy" to use the term "eladrin" (mostly to impress onlookers with the sense that you are an educated, erudite person, leading to all sorts of mistakes when the term is incorrectly applied). The vast majority of the world refers to all elves--high, low, dark--as "elves."
Going into 4e, terming "high" elves "eladrin" seems to have been an attempt to differentiate them from "low" elves in a way that wouldn't be confusing to people picking up the game for the first time. It's just like calling evil dwarves "duergar" or dark elves "drow" or underdark gnomes "svirfnebli." Should they have chosen a different name that didn't already attach to something in the cosmology? Maybe, but they created a neat lore tie-in whereby we see clearly that these powerful angelic fey created called eladrin are related to our more basic elves. It's basically like comparing hobgoblins to goblins.
Regardless, moving forward, there is every indication that DnD-Next will refer to high and low elves as "elves." It's all over the playtest materials, and that's much more in keeping with the all-encompassing spirit of design for DnD-Next.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2012 : 21:27:08
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I can fix the elves - I've done so repeatedly in numerous threads: the whole El'adrin (wayward children) and El'ves (loyal children) thing. The opposite of El (children) is Le (mature), thus Le'Shay means adult Shay (Sidhe, Shee, Sith) - or 'mature faery'. The elves are the mortal children of the Fey creator race, because they were born after death entered the world (all races were mortal after death was created). That means the original creator Races had to have all been immortal (but could still be killed).
One of these days I have to compile my fey language musings (and the fey tongue itself is derived from an archaic form of Celestial). Along with my Shou, Imaskari, and Fiendish language musings.
quote:
Originally posted by Marc
The weariness, that's from LotR <snip>
LOL - so all elves are 'emo', not just Drizzt? Or is it his emo attitude that makes him more like a surface elf? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Sep 2012 23:32:06 |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2012 : 22:47:13
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| I've never had an issue with there being separate subraces within races - sun elves, moon elves, wood elves, and evil wild elves and star elves. The same goes for any race. I'm not sure that these differences need to be big enough to consider the subrace to be an entirely different race. Svirfneblin really are similar to gnomes in name only, much like duergar and drow. But sun elves, moon elves, wood elves - they share most of the same traits, with a few important differences. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2012 : 23:37:35
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It would be interesting if they turned them into templates (in other words, a drow template you put on top of an elf). Problem with that is that you couldn't have level one Drow.
The flip side of that is that there shouldn't be a level 1 drow. I think a drow child of ten years old is probably as handy at killing as most level three human warriors (hence the humungous problem with balancing some races). So long as NPCs follow the same rules as PCs, you can never achieve realistic balance.
Also, most elves are a few hundred years old - where are these level 1 elves coming from? Are they children?
Creating a consistent rules system that must incorporate non-humans as anything other then 'threats' will never be perfect. In the RW, things are never that balanced. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 04:10:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I'd like to see elves being elves and not sun/high elves being eladrin. Eladrin are from the Feywild. Though, I guess that wish doesn't apply to the novels so much.
Well, elves are also from the Feywild (originally), as are even drow, who were originally elves, or at least the same thing that eladrin/elves/drow were originally (their common ancestor). But that's beside the point.
In the realms, "eladrin" is a term used mostly by sages and people who want to be really technical. And in certain locales (such as Waterdeep, Westgate, etc) it has at times over the past century been "trendy" to use the term "eladrin" (mostly to impress onlookers with the sense that you are an educated, erudite person, leading to all sorts of mistakes when the term is incorrectly applied). The vast majority of the world refers to all elves--high, low, dark--as "elves."
Going into 4e, terming "high" elves "eladrin" seems to have been an attempt to differentiate them from "low" elves in a way that wouldn't be confusing to people picking up the game for the first time. It's just like calling evil dwarves "duergar" or dark elves "drow" or underdark gnomes "svirfnebli." Should they have chosen a different name that didn't already attach to something in the cosmology? Maybe, but they created a neat lore tie-in whereby we see clearly that these powerful angelic fey created called eladrin are related to our more basic elves. It's basically like comparing hobgoblins to goblins.
Regardless, moving forward, there is every indication that DnD-Next will refer to high and low elves as "elves." It's all over the playtest materials, and that's much more in keeping with the all-encompassing spirit of design for DnD-Next.
Cheers
Ah, I see. Thank you for explaining. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 07:39:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I'd like to see elves being elves and not sun/high elves being eladrin. Eladrin are from the Feywild. Though, I guess that wish doesn't apply to the novels so much.
Well, elves are also from the Feywild (originally), as are even drow, who were originally elves, or at least the same thing that eladrin/elves/drow were originally (their common ancestor). But that's beside the point.
In the realms, "eladrin" is a term used mostly by sages and people who want to be really technical. And in certain locales (such as Waterdeep, Westgate, etc) it has at times over the past century been "trendy" to use the term "eladrin" (mostly to impress onlookers with the sense that you are an educated, erudite person, leading to all sorts of mistakes when the term is incorrectly applied). The vast majority of the world refers to all elves--high, low, dark--as "elves."
Going into 4e, terming "high" elves "eladrin" seems to have been an attempt to differentiate them from "low" elves in a way that wouldn't be confusing to people picking up the game for the first time. It's just like calling evil dwarves "duergar" or dark elves "drow" or underdark gnomes "svirfnebli." Should they have chosen a different name that didn't already attach to something in the cosmology? Maybe, but they created a neat lore tie-in whereby we see clearly that these powerful angelic fey created called eladrin are related to our more basic elves. It's basically like comparing hobgoblins to goblins.
Regardless, moving forward, there is every indication that DnD-Next will refer to high and low elves as "elves." It's all over the playtest materials, and that's much more in keeping with the all-encompassing spirit of design for DnD-Next.
Cheers
Eladrins to me have always been an answer to a problem that never existed. I don't mind the word describing the near immortal elves from the Feywild. But the term should NEVER be used to describe an Elf born in the Realms. I never minded the racial arch-types of the Elves in the Realms. But I never understood what the hell an Eladrin was and it just seemed stupid. I'm sorry if this sounds a little harsh. But I just can't stand it when something is over designed. |
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kysus
Learned Scribe
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 11:14:08
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| I kinda on the same level as caolin on this topic. This was one of my big issues that gave me the outlook i have now with 4th edition and other than the artwork and a few other items, this is one of the topics i am watching closely for 5th edition. I am very curious as to how the races will be handled in this future edition, will the elves go back to being called elves and if eladrins are just another name for elves then what of the outsider race of eladrin that lives in arvandor do they not exist anymore and any lore pertaining to them? Leaving it as is or just coming up with a minor fix of saying they are just the same race with two different names is still throwing out any of the old lore pertaining to that race. |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 12:56:26
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| I'm certain that in 5E elves will assume their rightful place as servants of the mighty dwarves. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 14:16:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Veritas
I'm certain that in 5E elves will assume their rightful place as servants of the mighty dwarves.
and halflings will be everyone's butlers and chauffeurs (meanwhile pilfering the silverware and swiping small amounts from the packages being transported). Everyone will look down upon the gnomes for their tendency to just blow sh*t up. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 14:46:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I'd like to see elves being elves and not sun/high elves being eladrin. Eladrin are from the Feywild. Though, I guess that wish doesn't apply to the novels so much.
Well, elves are also from the Feywild (originally), as are even drow, who were originally elves, or at least the same thing that eladrin/elves/drow were originally (their common ancestor). But that's beside the point.
In the realms, "eladrin" is a term used mostly by sages and people who want to be really technical. And in certain locales (such as Waterdeep, Westgate, etc) it has at times over the past century been "trendy" to use the term "eladrin" (mostly to impress onlookers with the sense that you are an educated, erudite person, leading to all sorts of mistakes when the term is incorrectly applied). The vast majority of the world refers to all elves--high, low, dark--as "elves."
Going into 4e, terming "high" elves "eladrin" seems to have been an attempt to differentiate them from "low" elves in a way that wouldn't be confusing to people picking up the game for the first time. It's just like calling evil dwarves "duergar" or dark elves "drow" or underdark gnomes "svirfnebli." Should they have chosen a different name that didn't already attach to something in the cosmology? Maybe, but they created a neat lore tie-in whereby we see clearly that these powerful angelic fey created called eladrin are related to our more basic elves. It's basically like comparing hobgoblins to goblins.
Regardless, moving forward, there is every indication that DnD-Next will refer to high and low elves as "elves." It's all over the playtest materials, and that's much more in keeping with the all-encompassing spirit of design for DnD-Next.
Cheers
Eladrins to me have always been an answer to a problem that never existed. I don't mind the word describing the near immortal elves from the Feywild. But the term should NEVER be used to describe an Elf born in the Realms. I never minded the racial arch-types of the Elves in the Realms. But I never understood what the hell an Eladrin was and it just seemed stupid. I'm sorry if this sounds a little harsh. But I just can't stand it when something is over designed.
We used to describe those Fayish elves, and as a ranging gage in waterdeep for showing how little many folks new about elves, or the tendency for elves in our world to not explain things about their culture. Then again, mechanically we never left 3.5. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 16:34:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
Eladrins to me have always been an answer to a problem that never existed.
Interesting. What do you mean?
quote:
I don't mind the word describing the near immortal elves from the Feywild. But the term should NEVER be used to describe an Elf born in the Realms.
Well, in that case, you would be one of those people in the Realms who--when he hears a sage or some snot-nosed noble with "academic" pretensions describe an elf as an "eladrin"--would roll his eyes or otherwise express his contempt. 
"Eladrin" is mostly a term that belongs to the Nerath setting. As I've said, it's barely pertinent to the Realms.
quote:
I never minded the racial arch-types of the Elves in the Realms. But I never understood what the hell an Eladrin was and it just seemed stupid.
Before 4e, basically, an eladrin is to an elf what an angel is to a human: a heightened outsider version of a mortal race. All different races have all different mythologies and cosmologies, and D&D is all about have such things. 4e expanded the lore by telling us that elves and eladrin were directly related, and eladrin are a kind of enhanced/evolved version of elves. (Though to be technical, we started learning this in the Last Mythal trilogy, which was 3.5.)
To be perfectly honest, I pretty much ignored 3.x eladrin, because they didn't play a role in my games. The 4e eladrin are much more useful, and I really like the symmetry and connection among all the fey.
quote:
I'm sorry if this sounds a little harsh. But I just can't stand it when something is over designed.
It's just a matter of taste. One man's treasure is another man's over-design.
quote:
Originally posted by kysus
I am very curious as to how the races will be handled in this future edition, will the elves go back to being called elves and if eladrins are just another name for elves then what of the outsider race of eladrin that lives in arvandor do they not exist anymore and any lore pertaining to them?
Leaving it as is or just coming up with a minor fix of saying they are just the same race with two different names is still throwing out any of the old lore pertaining to that race.
Both of those things are still around, as I explained above. 4e brought us an *expansion* of the lore surrounding elves and eladrin by making it clear that "eladrin" were evolved versions of elves, which could eventually be high courtly beings among the fey. It's not a contradiction of lore, but an expansion.
Also, again as I said, all indications are that DnD-Next will call all elves/eladrin "elves," which is what they are anyway.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 17:03:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
Eladrins to me have always been an answer to a problem that never existed.
AGREED.
I think part of the problem is that the Eladrin exemplify the old concept of 'High Elves', mixed with the old concept of 'Gray Elves'. This gets confusing because in FR, the term 'Gray elf' is actually applied to FR's High Elves (The Silver/Moon elves). FR's Gray Elves are the Gold Elves (which gets further muddled because the appearance of FR's races is also the opposite of the core version). I love Ed's take on the Elves because it is different from core (his drow were also milky white, like the ones in the Hellboy II).
Unfortunately, that does man folks coming from core can get confused, so the 4e design team decided (in their ultimate quest to make FR the generic 'kitchen sink' setting) to come up with a 'new' term for the entire over-group of 'civilized' elves. However, instead of actually coming up with a new term, they used one that was already applied to something else, taking a very minor problem and snowballing it into a huge one. Way to go.
This is why I agree with Caolin - the problem was perceived, not real - because it only related to persons coming from another D&D setting to FR (I know I did). However, after just a small amount of reading the problem resolves itself (it did for me). The assumption here is that 4e players were expected to be illiterate (I am not insulting them - the 4e team did that... just look at the 'lore light' approach).
I personally have no problem with the term 'Eladrin' - I feel the old lore and the new lore are easily reconcilable in this case (the old school Eladrins were the 'epic ones'). What they should have done in 4e is play down that terminology in the FR books, instead of trying to hammer it home. If they just stop using it, I think the problem might just go away (certain aspects of 4e almost felt like they were rubbing our faces in it on every other page, and I am not just talking about sourcebooks).
And now I find myself starting to slip back into complainer-mode, which I am loathe to do. Lets look forward to the future, and hope they get it right this time. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 18:20:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The assumption here is that 4e players were expected to be illiterate (I am not insulting them - the 4e team did that... just look at the 'lore light' approach).
Wow, MT. As a 4e FR designer, I take personal offense to that.
That was not at all the intention. And I'm getting really, really tired of people shoveling that same misconception over and over.
The "lore light" approach is all about offering players the option of playing without a lot of lore to inform the game (particularly helpful if they're new, don't have the time to do all the research, or aren't really interested in all of it), or delving in to make it a really rich, really deep experience (like hardcore FR wonks). It's about choice.
Also, I think I'm done with this thread. Best wishes to all involved.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 18 Sep 2012 18:20:49 |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 18:24:58
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| Um, eladrin are not, and never were, elves. They've always been chaotic good celestials of the more chaotic upper planes. Been that way for decades. Let's not encourage WotC's mangling of many familiar terms in their 4e |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 18:25:27
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@ESdB: I don't mean to offend anyone with this, but having lore to choose from is about offering choice; not having lore for 'freedom' (which you can easily have anyway) is about simplifying choices. Canon can easily be circumvented also when you have to choose to ignore something that is there, not only when you have to ignore some event that destroyed something you hold dear.
They could've come up with modules at that point, instead of doing what they did: that would've been about offering choices... |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 18 Sep 2012 18:27:40 |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 18:57:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
... The assumption here is that 4e players were expected to be illiterate (I am not insulting them - the 4e team did that... just look at the 'lore light' approach).
You know, some of us have put an immense amount of time in each piece of Realmslore we write. We don't get paid by the hour, nor do we expect some grand respect, but we do hope that people don't make idiotic comments about what we submit considering our dedication.
Bash the company for their decisions. That's fair. You can have your argument there. But stop acting like there's some grand scheme on the part of designers to screw you out of Realmslore.  |
Edited by - Matt James on 18 Sep 2012 18:58:36 |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 19:02:52
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| Bah, every last designed from Ed on has stymied the DWD - dwarf world domination (tm). There will be a rise of the dwarves, mark my words. Expected for 7E. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 19:03:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
Bash the company for their decisions. That's fair. You can have your argument there. But stop acting like there's some grand scheme on the part of designers to screw you out of Realmslore.
I didn't know you were a part of the official, in-house 'team'.
Sorry. 
I wasn't bashing what little lore was produced, I was bashing the attitude that such a small amount should have been produced - I would hope that the freelancers would agree with me - that many, many more such articles should have been published.
Most of the 4e lore was produced by the LFR guys... and they weren't getting paid (and then they got stabbed in the back). One can only assume they were doing their 'job' all too well, and produced far more lore then the in-house guys ever wanted (forcing them to actually read stuff written by others).
I have no idea why you took offense to a comment aimed directly at the '4e approach', which you (and every other freelancer) had absolutely no hand in tailoring. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Sep 2012 19:05:37 |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 19:23:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
Eladrins to me have always been an answer to a problem that never existed.
Interesting. What do you mean?
Well, I remember when 4E first came out and I saw the name Eladrin and then I saw pictures of them with their pupiless eyes. My first thought was that they made some sort of celestial elf as a playable character, much like the Deva. But then I started reading about how they were always in the Realms and people just didn't understand the differences between the elves. I didn't quite get it and I could never find a definitive answer. I just thought, "this is BS so I'll ignore it". But then they start popping up in the novels, crazy eyes and all.
I guess my main issue is that there was never an sensible explanation from the top that explained where they came from. I mean, if they were always here why did we never noticed the crazy eyes? Why not just simply say that they are here now because the Feywild has come much closer to the Realms and it is now much easier to cross to and fro. There may have been a few Eladrin travelers in the Realms before the Spellplague. But there are no Eladrin born in the Realms, otherwise they would be elves with normal eyes and all. Being from the Feywild makes them Eladrin.
Edit: Forgot to add....it felt like a fix to a problem that didn't exist because to me it seemed like the designers were trying to make the elves more interesting and cool. I could be wrong, but it's just the impression that I always had about Eladrins. Elves, especially FR elves, never needed to be more interesting. They have a rich history and are very diverse.
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Edited by - Caolin on 18 Sep 2012 19:32:32 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 19:30:04
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| I would go with Caolin's take on this one. I never understood the need for a new name either. In fact, like many here, I came in already knowing that eladrin were supposed to be the "celestial" elves from Planescape and were the Outer Planar beings that elves either became after entering Arvandor, or were created from. I always leaned toward the idea that eladrin were the "ascended" elves, servants of the Seldarine after their (likely heroic) deaths. |
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"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
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http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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What will Elves be after the Sundering?
