Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 The Most Influential Netherese Archwizard
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 8

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2012 :  04:40:20  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Poll Question:

That is, influential to the growth and development of Netheril. We may have different definitions of ‘influential,’ and that’s fine. I would share this, from Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English: adj. having a lot of influence and therefore changing the way people think and behave.

Choices:

Ioulaum
Karsus
Congenio
Larloch
Telamont Tanthul
Jeriah The Chronomancer
Aumvor The Undying
Lady Polaris
Elorian
Oberon
Other

(Anonymous Vote)

Every beginning has an end.

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2012 :  04:41:28  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

It’s no surprise that I’m a big fan of Telamont. This time, though, I’m not casting my vote on him. While his research on the then Demiplane of Shadow was quite important and provided avenues for other wizards to hone their magical abilities by tapping into an alternative source of magic, it may not be as great as Ioulaum’s contribution. Ioulaum was the first to shear an entire mountain and create the very first floating city in history (using arcane magic, as opposed to Rune Magic of the giants who also had their own flying city). Many archwizards followed right after. But we should never forget the man who started it all, and definitely give him his due credit.

Every beginning has an end.
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4856 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2012 :  11:24:27  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Likely the one you've never heard of.

-- George Krashos


"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2012 :  13:18:52  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ioulaum did start it but Karsus brought it all crashing down and in the process killed a goddess and changed the face of the world forever more ,so i have to vote for him.
Go to Top of Page

GRYPHON
Senior Scribe

USA
520 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2012 :  14:58:58  Show Profile  Visit GRYPHON's Homepage Send GRYPHON a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ioulaum...
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30084 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2012 :  15:24:27  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Karsus had a lot of influence -- he destroyed his nation, and caused the nature of magic to be altered forever. So the few people that survived his folly had to relearn everything...

Hard to top that, in terms of influence.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe

Greece
569 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2012 :  15:39:59  Show Profile  Visit BARDOBARBAROS's Homepage Send BARDOBARBAROS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Karsus

BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!


"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2)
Go to Top of Page

Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2012 :  18:57:18  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Karsus had a lot of influence -- he destroyed his nation, and caused the nature of magic to be altered forever. So the few people that survived his folly had to relearn everything...

Hard to top that, in terms of influence.

Wooly basically said exactly what I wanted to say.

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane

* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives

My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
Go to Top of Page

Aulduron
Learned Scribe

USA
342 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2012 :  19:05:58  Show Profile Send Aulduron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
influential to the growth and development of Netheril

"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"

-Procopio Septus
Go to Top of Page

Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
2885 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2012 :  19:18:04  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Ioulaum, and it really isn't close. While other Archmagi were better looking and more awesome, Ioulaum was the grandfather of High Netheril.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium

Edited by - Lord Karsus on 14 Apr 2012 19:18:40
Go to Top of Page

sfdragon
Master of Realmslore

1989 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2012 :  20:42:57  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ioulaum ands down

with Lord KArsus, The Chronomancer , LArloch, and the terraseer somewhere behind the man, the myth and the legend.....

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
Go to Top of Page

Eli the Tanner
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
148 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2012 :  23:33:10  Show Profile  Visit Eli the Tanner's Homepage Send Eli the Tanner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think my vote has to go to Ioulaum.

His campaign againt the orcs (wherein at least 150,000 orcs died), the aptly named Excursion into Extinction, removed a threat that had spelled the doom of so many great kingdoms before (elven, dwarven and human)...all but guaranteed Netheril's success.

Setting aside the culture-defining acheivements of creating the floating cities and inventing mythallars. I think the fact the Netherese themselves considered him the 'Father of Netheril' and not until Ioulaum fled did the people turn to Karsus for leadership ...speaks volumes for Ioulaum's importance.

I must give honourable mention to the Terraseer though. He is the sort of pervading, machiavellian nation-crafter whose influence canot really be measured.

Historically speaking though...with regards primarily to Faerun as a whole...then I think Karsus' efforts had greater influence on the world. But that's a different measure really...Abe Lincoln vs 9/11

Moderator of /r/Forgotten_Realms

Edited by - Eli the Tanner on 14 Apr 2012 23:34:54
Go to Top of Page

Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
2885 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2012 :  00:36:52  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eli the Tanner

I must give honourable mention to the Terraseer though. He is the sort of pervading, machiavellian nation-crafter whose influence canot really be measured.

-He wasn't a Netherese Archmage, though.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
Go to Top of Page

Eli the Tanner
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
148 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2012 :  01:12:47  Show Profile  Visit Eli the Tanner's Homepage Send Eli the Tanner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

[quote]Originally posted by Eli the Tanner
-He wasn't a Netherese Archmage, though.



Hence the honourable mention. I know he can't technically be considered as he wasn't a Netherese Archwizard but I thought I'd give him a nod as an influential archmage in Netheril nonetheless.

Moderator of /r/Forgotten_Realms
Go to Top of Page

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2012 :  01:20:19  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Karsus had a lot of influence -- he destroyed his nation, and caused the nature of magic to be altered forever. So the few people that survived his folly had to relearn everything...

Hard to top that, in terms of influence.


Perhaps. Though nothing would have crashed down if Ioulaum didn't invent the mythallar in the first place. Just like there would have been no plane/helicopter crashes if such inventions weren't made. If the Netherese continued to live on the ground, Mystryl's death and the temporary collapse of magic would have less adverse effects...

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 15 Apr 2012 04:05:21
Go to Top of Page

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2012 :  01:24:41  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eli the Tanner

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

[quote]Originally posted by Eli the Tanner
-He wasn't a Netherese Archmage, though.


Hence the honourable mention. I know he can't technically be considered as he wasn't a Netherese Archwizard but I thought I'd give him a nod as an influential archmage in Netheril nonetheless.


He's a sarrukh. That's why I didn't include him in the options. But I'm well aware of his contributions and influence, as likely most of us here are.

I agree, though, that he deserves an honorable mention.

---

I wonder, who voted Oberon? A fan of spelljamming?

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 15 Apr 2012 01:25:38
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2012 :  01:45:58  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Likely the one you've never heard of.

-- George Krashos



Agreed.

While those listed as potential options in the poll all have had some significant influence on the development of the Netherse and the nation of Netheril as a whole [Karsus, especially], I suspect that in its long history, there are still unacknowledged archwizards who have either been forgotten or ignored... simply because "younger" upstarts have stolen the spotlight, so to speak.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
Go to Top of Page

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2012 :  01:54:21  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Likely the one you've never heard of.

-- George Krashos



Agreed.

While those listed as potential options in the poll all have had some significant influence on the development of the Netherse and the nation of Netheril as a whole [Karsus, especially], I suspect that in its long history, there are still unacknowledged archwizards who have either been forgotten or ignored... simply because "younger" upstarts have stolen the spotlight, so to speak.


The inventors can be forgotten, but the inventions are remembered. The contributors gone, but their contributions continue to affect lives. Unless you can name any specific influence/contribution/invention by these unknown figures that bettered the lives of the Netherese, I'm inclined to disagree.

Every beginning has an end.
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2012 :  03:15:45  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm running with Krash's idea that the most influential Netherese archwizards are those that haven't been mentioned in the Realmslore. Yet.

In other words, the Realms as a vibrant and growing setting still allows for the possibility for new "old" archwizards to be revealed as the old Empire of Netherse is developed further.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30084 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2012 :  03:47:23  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Karsus had a lot of influence -- he destroyed his nation, and caused the nature of magic to be altered forever. So the few people that survived his folly had to relearn everything...

Hard to top that, in terms of influence.


Perhaps. Though nothing would have crashed down if Ioulaum didn't invent the mythal in the first place. Just like there would have been no plane/helicopter crashes if such inventions weren't made. If the Netherese continued to live on the ground, Mystryl's death and the temporary collapse of magic would have less adverse effects...



Ioulaum didn't invent the mythal, it was the mythallar.

And one thing real world history has shown, that I think applies to your argument: the credited inventor of something is often the person who completes his invention first -- or who gets to the press, first. If Ioulaum hadn't made the enclaves possible, someone else -- possibly even Karsus -- would have done it, later.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2012 :  04:14:41  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Karsus had a lot of influence -- he destroyed his nation, and caused the nature of magic to be altered forever. So the few people that survived his folly had to relearn everything...

Hard to top that, in terms of influence.


Perhaps. Though nothing would have crashed down if Ioulaum didn't invent the mythallar in the first place. Just like there would have been no plane/helicopter crashes if such inventions weren't made. If the Netherese continued to live on the ground, Mystryl's death and the temporary collapse of magic would have less adverse effects...


Ioulaum didn't invent the mythal, it was the mythallar.

And one thing real world history has shown, that I think applies to your argument: the credited inventor of something is often the person who completes his invention first -- or who gets to the press, first. If Ioulaum hadn't made the enclaves possible, someone else -- possibly even Karsus -- would have done it, later.


Oh, I meant the mythallar. Corrected it already.

I don't doubt Karsus could have invented the mythallar if Ioulaum hadn't done so first. His various works, including a fountain that twisted and defied gravity, were indicative of that. However, just because a possibility exists does not mean we should ignore the actual thing. Karsus inventing the mythallar is a possibility; Ioulaum is the one who actually did it, and influenced others to follow the same.

Besides, here's another possibility: Karsus, in his almost boundless ingenuity, might have focused on other aspects of magic and failed to give enough attention to gravity-defying magic if Ioulaum hadn't created the mythallar.

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 15 Apr 2012 04:15:42
Go to Top of Page

Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe

Canada
107 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2012 :  04:45:57  Show Profile Send Nilus Reynard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am a fan of Telamont Tanthul, so that is where my vote went.

Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P21 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D)
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30084 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2012 :  16:55:55  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Karsus had a lot of influence -- he destroyed his nation, and caused the nature of magic to be altered forever. So the few people that survived his folly had to relearn everything...

Hard to top that, in terms of influence.


Perhaps. Though nothing would have crashed down if Ioulaum didn't invent the mythallar in the first place. Just like there would have been no plane/helicopter crashes if such inventions weren't made. If the Netherese continued to live on the ground, Mystryl's death and the temporary collapse of magic would have less adverse effects...


Ioulaum didn't invent the mythal, it was the mythallar.

And one thing real world history has shown, that I think applies to your argument: the credited inventor of something is often the person who completes his invention first -- or who gets to the press, first. If Ioulaum hadn't made the enclaves possible, someone else -- possibly even Karsus -- would have done it, later.


Oh, I meant the mythallar. Corrected it already.

I don't doubt Karsus could have invented the mythallar if Ioulaum hadn't done so first. His various works, including a fountain that twisted and defied gravity, were indicative of that. However, just because a possibility exists does not mean we should ignore the actual thing. Karsus inventing the mythallar is a possibility; Ioulaum is the one who actually did it, and influenced others to follow the same.

Besides, here's another possibility: Karsus, in his almost boundless ingenuity, might have focused on other aspects of magic and failed to give enough attention to gravity-defying magic if Ioulaum hadn't created the mythallar.



It didn't need to have been Karsus... I'm just saying that I'm less willing to ascribe great influence simply because of an invention, since someone else could have made that same (or similar) invention later.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2012 :  18:14:28  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ioulaum for me. Being the first to cobble together a whole flying city from a bunch of rocks was a huge game changer.

I'm no Netheril expert, though, so grain of salt and all that.

I'd sure like to learn a little bit more about some of the other, as yet unwritten about Arcanists of Netheril.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
Go to Top of Page

Eli the Tanner
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
148 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2012 :  22:39:56  Show Profile  Visit Eli the Tanner's Homepage Send Eli the Tanner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Karsus had a lot of influence -- he destroyed his nation, and caused the nature of magic to be altered forever. So the few people that survived his folly had to relearn everything...

Hard to top that, in terms of influence.


Perhaps. Though nothing would have crashed down if Ioulaum didn't invent the mythallar in the first place. Just like there would have been no plane/helicopter crashes if such inventions weren't made. If the Netherese continued to live on the ground, Mystryl's death and the temporary collapse of magic would have less adverse effects...


Ioulaum didn't invent the mythal, it was the mythallar.

And one thing real world history has shown, that I think applies to your argument: the credited inventor of something is often the person who completes his invention first -- or who gets to the press, first. If Ioulaum hadn't made the enclaves possible, someone else -- possibly even Karsus -- would have done it, later.


Oh, I meant the mythallar. Corrected it already.

I don't doubt Karsus could have invented the mythallar if Ioulaum hadn't done so first. His various works, including a fountain that twisted and defied gravity, were indicative of that. However, just because a possibility exists does not mean we should ignore the actual thing. Karsus inventing the mythallar is a possibility; Ioulaum is the one who actually did it, and influenced others to follow the same.

Besides, here's another possibility: Karsus, in his almost boundless ingenuity, might have focused on other aspects of magic and failed to give enough attention to gravity-defying magic if Ioulaum hadn't created the mythallar.



It didn't need to have been Karsus... I'm just saying that I'm less willing to ascribe great influence simply because of an invention, since someone else could have made that same (or similar) invention later.



I'd concur with this sentiment, the creation of the Mythallar and flying enclaves are icing to the Ioulaum cake (although undoubtedly culture-shaping ideas). I always felt it was Ioulaum's pro-active approach to Netheril society that steam-rollered it into what it became. He led the way that sent other Archwizards scrambling to match him (including ol' karsus) and learn from him. Karsus would most likely have exceeded Ioulaum, given time, but his influence among the Netherese was a rather divisive one...breeding bitterness between enclaves and the folk who lived on the ground still.

I love all the political power-play of Netheril and am considering setting my next campaign there, probably using the Pathfinder Kingmaker campaign as a base.

Moderator of /r/Forgotten_Realms
Go to Top of Page

sfdragon
Master of Realmslore

1989 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2012 :  01:46:40  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by Eli the Tanner

I must give honourable mention to the Terraseer though. He is the sort of pervading, machiavellian nation-crafter whose influence canot really be measured.

-He wasn't a Netherese Archmage, though.


pcs were not supposed to know taht though

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 8 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2017 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000