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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 09:53:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
[Because the drow would keep backstabbing even during war times.
Only when they can afford it. During the attack on Mithril hall they worked quite good together and from what I can judge from the movie this time they are attacking on Lolths direct orders who wants this to be a success.
So everyone who does something stupid which compromises the mission for his own good will have to face the wrath of Lolth. I really doubt many will dare this.
Nevertheless i am curious in which way Red wizards are worse than drow. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 10:23:07
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
[Because the drow would keep backstabbing even during war times.
Only when they can afford it. During the attack on Mithril hall they worked quite good together
Getting a demon to assassinate one of your own generals before a battle (just because of personal matters) doesn't look like a smart way to win a war.
Sometimes the way Lolth wants her tools followers to think turns against her own goals.
Of course, while seeing the drow united for a single purpose doesn't seem likely to me, I'm not excluding that this particular event could lead to a major change. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 11 Apr 2012 10:26:05 |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 11:33:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Sometimes the way Lolth wants her tools followers to think turns against her own goals.
Yes thats true, but I guess if she has a change of hearts and realizes that needs to change this time she is scary enough to enforce it. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 11:45:47
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Sometimes the way Lolth wants her tools followers to think turns against her own goals.
Yes thats true, but I guess if she has a change of hearts and realizes that needs to change this time she is scary enough to enforce it.
That's what I'm saying. Unless the drow (and Lolth) change their behavior at least for the time this war will run, they're doomed to fail miserably.
However, once some people's mentality is formed, even a deity can't just show up a day and say 'Hey! Ignore what I told you before, now you do things this other way'. If she does so, those people will always have the influence of the way of thinking they grew up with (remember that the drow are convinced that Lloth's way of life is the only one that allows survival), even when trying to overcome it, and even while fearing their deity's lash. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 11 Apr 2012 12:02:18 |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 15:33:04
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http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.366286-PAX-East-2012-Tabletop-Preview-Dungeons-Dragons-Rise-of-the-Underdark
According to this link on the escapist, rise of the Underdark looks really cool. Apparently, Lolth has broke her silence and is attempting to claim the mantle of Goddess of Magic. She wants to be Mystra. This next encounter season is about PC's trying to get artifacts or something before followers of Lolth do.
This sounds incredibly cool, and I will be participating in encounters for this.
Read this article it is extremely informative. |
A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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phranctoast
Learned Scribe
USA
151 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 18:06:34
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So according to links
Charon Claw (Aug) RAS
Spinner of Lies: Sword of the Gods (June 5), Bruce Cordell
Prince of Ravens (July 3), Richard Baker
Skein of Shadows (July 3), Marsheila Rockwell
Spider and Stone (December), Jaleigh Johnson
Will all be related to Rise of the Underdark.
But no mention of Demon Weave at all. |
Currently reading: Spider and Stone by Jaleigh Johnson: Sequel to Mistshore |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 19:10:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
That's what I'm saying. Unless the drow (and Lolth) change their behavior at least for the time this war will run, they're doomed to fail miserably.
However, once some people's mentality is formed, even a deity can't just show up a day and say 'Hey! Ignore what I told you before, now you do things this other way'. If she does so, those people will always have the influence of the way of thinking they grew up with (remember that the drow are convinced that Lloth's way of life is the only one that allows survival), even when trying to overcome it, and even while fearing their deity's lash.
I forget the source, but one of the lorebooks spoke of the irony of the drow veneration of "chaos", while at the same time needing stability and law & order in order for their society and civilization to be able to work. It basically said that if it weren't for the blessings and intervention of Lolth, the drow would've all killed each other off a long time ago.
So that makes it sound like Lolth encourages chaos and treachery to a point, but she manages to step in and redirect the ship whenever it's absolutely needed, so that the drow race and society can continue--despite itself.
Think of it kinda like owners of fighting pit bulls. If left to their own devices, such animals would utterly destroy one another. But their caretakers only let them do their violent thing to an extent, and then eventually reign them back in to maintain an air of order and decorum--until the next time.
Also, there's this from the Drow of the Underdark (3.5E) lorebook:
quote:
The truth is, the drow are at least somewhat cooperative with one another, almost in spite of their own nature. Their ambitions and desires require that their society remains at least somewhat stable. They employ few true laws, but they are tightly bound by traditions and codes, and even if they follow them primarily out of fear, they follow them nonetheless. It is ironic that a lone drow is likely to drift toward chaos, but that despite their rivalry to one another, the presence of multiple drow in a given community literally forces them into a level of cooperation beyond what truly chaotic individuals would maintain. (DOTU {3.5E}, p10: "Drow Alignment")
Drow civilization has existed and thrived for millenia. One should take care not to render the drow love of chaos into some sort of outlandish caricature and farce. Clearly, there has been some sort of mitigating or moderating force within drow society. We might as well call it "Lolth". |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 19:28:37
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True. In fact I'm not saying drow can't set up a somehow organized society (on the contrary, Lloth -their regulating force- imposes so many rules on them to the point that their society appears oppressively organized). I'm saying that I -personally- don't see them managing it on a big scale (like a nation).
Their civilization consists only of a handful of scattered cities. Their mentality in all these millenia prevented them from forming a united nation in the Underdark, or even getting rid of their enemies down there.
So, it is hard to me to believe that all of sudden, just because Lolth wants so, the drow will be able to stop plotting against each other and manage a successful, wide, long term campaign against so many enemies (which is what appears in the trailer). They'd need to change, but it'll be hard to ignore the ideas that formed their mind while growing up.
I mean, they won't ignore Lolth's will, of course, but -for example- some of them (even while trying to contain themselves) might see an opportunity as perfect to achieve something they wanted (or to solve a grudge) and do something that would compromise the result of a battle important to their new campaign.
Again, as I wrote before, this is just how I see the situation. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 11 Apr 2012 19:53:39 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 21:07:08
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Oh, I agree, completely. The danger of the drow is not that they might build a nation on the surface.
It's that they would wreak a helluvalot of havoc in the process of trying--win or fail! |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 21:08:52
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...... you know in the 4e frcg in the cormyr section there was a lady of thorns when she wakes the kingdom of cormyr wil be gone but does not say how.......
you dont suppose that this game has anything to do with that do you??? |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 21:34:19
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
you dont suppose that this game has anything to do with that do you???
That plot was played out, if I recall correctly, through a series of LFR adventures. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 00:00:03
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| and wasnt LFR decomissioned as canon.... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 00:33:40
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Honestly, as far as I'm concerned, the Drow are militarily the equal of anyone they fight...
It is only BECAUSE OF THEIR CHAOTIC CULTURE that they do not conquer anyone they come into contact with.
Any drow soldier, one on one, is quite often far superior to any surface soldier.
I only need one example to establish this as fact: Dambrath.
A single Drow city was capable of conquering an enemy that far outnumbered them. Simply because the Crinti came to rule Dambrath does not negate the fact that there were no Crinti when Dambrath was conquered.
The Drow have no need to fear the daylight in fact; their slaves alone could see to the daily occupation of the surface world...while Drow Matrons ruled provinces instead of compounds.
Only special circumstances prevented the Drow from crushing Mithril Hall...
All that being said, I would still hate to see the Drow come to the surface...I like them as an Underdark foe. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 01:06:33
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Yes, that is basically what I wrote.
They have the resources to conquer something, but the way Lolth wants them to think prevents them from accomplishing anything wide or durable.
However, they may be mighty, but their resources are limited and their enemies many (and resourceful as well).
So, as I said
quote:
it looks like the drow are going for massive scale war, to create many fronts at the same time but, by doing so, they'd split their resources too much, leaving vulnerable spots for their foes to exploit both on the surface and the Underdark. That, combined with drow treacherous and unstable nature, is the reason I don't see them getting much success in this war.
Except spreading havoc or creating diversionary situations (you know, to possibly hide Lolth's actual goal of becoming Mystra). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 14:07:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
A single Drow city was capable of conquering an enemy that far outnumbered them. Simply because the Crinti came to rule Dambrath does not negate the fact that there were no Crinti when Dambrath was conquered.
And in fact, this could be Wizbro's first steps at rectifying the horrible mistake they made by turning Dambrath into just another monster-infested land. The drow invasion could possibly see them establishing an 'overseer' class/race, much as the Crintri effectively were. It could be possible, in fact, that much of the mechanisms for this are already in place.
Plus, unless I am mistaken, Lolth has expressed a desire for human followers. Human priestesses of the Spider Queen are not beyond the realms (npi) of possibility (and indeed, my wife dressed up as one for a convention a few years back). There may already be villages, perhaps even towns, already under the thrall of drow overlords. Maybe this is one way for Lolth to give those pesky males something to do, who knows?
- OMH |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 15:12:07
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But how would humon followers of Lolth work toghter with drow? Because drow got raised for millenia with the knowledge that every other race is far inferior to them.
So when there suddenly would be female priestresses of Lolth they would be either higher in standing than non clerical drow which I can't see happening or they would still be in lower standing than all other drow but higher than other "lesser beings" which might happen but still would be a bit strange in my opinion.
I guess the only way would be if the new human followers worship a deity which in reality is Lolth in disguise and neither them nor the drow knowing it. Something that happend a lot in the past and maybe Lolth allready is disguising as some other deity. |
Edited by - _Jarlaxle_ on 12 Apr 2012 15:14:01 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 15:35:59
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Wasn't she doing that when having Moander as one of her aliases?
I remember reading somewhere she was amused that some priests of a faction of anti-human elves (Eldreth Veeluthra or whatever it is spelled) were actually asking her for spells while thinking that Moander was listening to their prayers. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 21:11:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Lirdolin
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
The Rise of the Underdark is upon us.
(...)
Im curious how this will affect the Realms: will it be the latest RSE or just one of those regional things that happened?
Considering the burn marks on the map in the video and the products we know of, I would say we can a least expect attacks on the Dalelands (Twisted Tower in Shadowdale)
Raven's Bluff (Jack Ravenwild novel)
Akanūl (Spinner of Lies/The Deamon Weave)
Thesk (Skein of Shadows?)
That would make it a pretty large scale attack.
Yeah, looks to me like they'll come up under Myth Drannor (which wasn't that done already, then they decided to bring the elves back?) and then I'm guessing the area under Thesk is likely from Undrek'Thoz or possibly the boneyard. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 21:22:53
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saw the below at this http://gamemasters.com/?p=243 that someone posted earlier. So, they're possibly doing a tie in with eberron? BTW, I haven't played DDO since I realized they didn't have all the basic 3E prestige classes. That ever change?
This June, the shadow of Lolth has fallen over the Forgotten Realms kingdom of Cormyr, where heroes struggle to stem the unrelenting tide of Drow forces. As the extent of Lolths schemes spread to entangle Eberron, the champions of that world must join those of Faerūn to battle this dark threatand ultimately, the Queen of Spiders herself. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 21:29:24
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also this from that site.. not sure how trustworthy it is
Mystra, the goddess of arcane magic is dead and Lolth, Demon Queen of Spiders is making her bid to seize control. The drow invasion is about to begin, and adventurers are needed to help stop Lolth from bringing about everlasting darkness to the surface world.
So, Lolth is trying to spread darkness and take over the weave. So are the trying to hint that Lolth and Shar are the same? If they do that, they've royally lost their minds. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 21:39:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
This in from iO9:
Rise of the Underdark
It looks like it's NOT Realms specific, but (much like the Abyssal Plague), it's sweeping across all the worlds. And look! A portal between Eberron & Faerūn!
I think my friend is right. If 5E flops, expect D&D to be shut down and each of the settings gets their own M:tG Expansion/Plane.
Hmmm, so DDO will expand to the realms? I might actually have to see what I need to do to get the install for it. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 00:03:57
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| Lolth had better not be an aspect of shar like sehanine was an aspect of selune! |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 00:16:42
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So might this be one of the things that
Khelben saw in his prophecies? The 3 From Darkness
and the 5 Prefects? One of the reasons for the
creation of the Moonstars? This is screaming
Blackstaff to me as I keep reading Blackstaff again
and again. We know that in a few years we get the year
of the Phaerimm Revenge. I think this is dove-tailing
the prophecies. |
Edited by - althen artren on 13 Apr 2012 00:23:19 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 00:28:00
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If they steal my idea...well, I'll be proud because I came up with it a long time ago...summary:
Lolth "cacoons" herself to change her ability to draw on magic. She took into her the ability to call on both the Weave and Shadow Weave. Once she came from her cacoon she began to call on human worshipers (especially in Dambrath where there were already temples to her!) to increase her power.
She would then have the power to challenge Shar and attempt to place herself at the pinnacle of magic...giving her the power she needs to defeat the Seldarine and force the elven gods to serve her.
I did that about ten years ago... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 01:58:50
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quote:
Originally posted by jerrod
Lolth had better not be an aspect of shar like sehanine was an aspect of selune!
this was one of the biggest pieces of junk ever thought to be a good idea.
never listen to those who think that the nay sayers are worth trying to convert...you only screw yourself with that......
but + infinity |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 17:16:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Markus's explanation didn't say planar chaos causes the disappearance of Evermeet --
...and his explanation doesn't appear to ignore the planar destabilization, either. (Markus, please clarify.)
Haven't been on a few days - sorry; working around the new house.
Since the 4e lore came around, I've learned to phrase things using 'broader strokes' - it really is the only way to keep ALL lore valid while posting my own musings.
I don't see a difference between 'magical chaos' and 'destabilization of the planer structure' - any time you have one, you have the other. Sometimes it is minor, and sometimes it is devastating, but it is always present in some form. Think of the planer structure as a grand tapestry, woven together with the very fabric of magic itself - the different forms of magic are really all parts of a greater whole, with each 'thread color' representing a different 'shade' of magic. Like our real, physical universe, everything is in-balance - while we have the Four Fundamental Forces and other things to help us explain our own physics-model of the universe, D&D/myth/fantasy has beings of immense power to represent these forces, and they act in much the same way (fantasy/mythology merely gives them sentience). Thus, gods are like major cosmological phenomena such as stars, planets, black holes, etc, which inter-act with everything - and hold together - everything else. Just as you can't pull a planet out of orbit with creating major chaos in a solar system (and perhaps beyond), you cannot remove a major deity or other uber-power without things shifting around. In that way, the ancient Greeks were correct - gods are very much like planets. The energies they radiate penetrate and effect everything around them.
But the universe is also like an infinite sea, with dimensions (planes) acting like islands within that sea - some unimaginably large, while other are like tiny islets. Thus, major events are not unlike casting a stone into a pool; you throw a pebble, and the ripples are small, and gradually decrease as they move away from the epicenter. Cast in a large rock, and the ripples reach further out, and effect other things, and could even swamp some of the closer 'islets' (Domains/demi-planes), but if you cast in a huge boulder - something akin to a large meteor striking a planet - the ripples are felt nearly everywhere, and even greater islands (planes/dimensions) could get erased, or permanently changed by the havoc caused.
Now, since magic is the medium from which this sea is formed, in all its myriad incarnations, then it stands to reason that the more magically anchored a being is, the greater ripples it could cause. A deity, or even multiple deities, being destroyed is not unlike the large rock - the after-shocks could even effect nearby planes and prime worlds. But when a god a magic dies - especially one who is nigh-unto an Overgod in might - then the effects are like the massive boulder I mentioned above. Mind, some deities may have tendrils stretching into hundreds of different worlds and planes - these beings act like 'anchors' for many things in both the Prime Material and beyond (think of it like a huge, old oak tree, with a root ball that holds together an entire hillside).
_____________________________________________________________________________
So, with all that in-mind, we have to assume that although the sentience that was Mystra/Mystryl - that mortal bit that the deific power symbiotically combined with - had 'died' in the past, the power itself remained, and was either being held by something (Ao?) until that being's return, or the actual act of destabilization (due to a lack of sentience/guidance) was on-going, and worsened over time. In the past, we know that the 'mantle' was both immediately switched (to Karsus) and then transferred again to a new sentience (the mortal girl form Cormyr) - this happened in a VERY short span of time (one instant, the other in a few minutes of the first's failure to maintain control). The second case we know of - the ToT - was very unique, and although the gods involved were 'cut-off' from most of their power, they neither died (at first), nor was the power itself 'set-adrift' (by the death of those gods) to cause unchecked chaos. Ao was monitoring the situation, and probably did as much as he could to help stabilize the world (which wasn't perfect, but did help more then folks realized). Add to that that Mystra's Chosen were part of the 'group mind' that helped her maintain The Weave, and were still very much alive and in-control of their small parts of that power (and were caused much pain and grief because of it).
We know for a canonical FACT that something stopped Mystra's return this last time (Shar was blamed... but we never really had all the information). This means the power was left completely unchecked, and ran wild. The Chosen did their best to control it, and we see (from Ed's novels) how that worked-out for them. Mortals were never meant to hold that much power for so long. What this means is that although the Death of Mystra started-out much the same as several other similar catastrophes, it didn't have the same ending (Mystra & her Weave getting 'rebooted'). THAT is what I feel the Spellplague truly is - it is what happens when magic is left unrestrained for a long period of time (and it may not be the first time - I think there were other, earlier times that most folk of Toril are unaware of today). In fact, the Sundering itself may have been the result of Shar and Selune losing control of their portions of that power, and until a sentience was combined with it again, the world was literally 'torn asunder'.
Think of it as 'rolling blackouts', or even a forest fire. We have people and contingencies in-effect to curb the worst parts of such things, to bring them back under control, and to restore order. In that way, Chosen are almost like Fireman - they 'put out the fires'. What would the world look like if we didn't have them? I had a huge forest fire right near my home a couple of days ago - I know without the fireman to restore order, most of Long Island would have burned. Or a blackout - we can go a few days without electric, or even a couple of weeks in isolated areas... but what if the entire world was without electricity for a year? A decade? A century? It certainly wouldn't look anything like the world we know. That's what the Spellplague was - it was raw power without order. The power was still there (and still is), but it was allowed to 'run amok', without a guiding hand.
Maybe what Shar did had nothing to do with Mystra at all - maybe it was Ao she manged to block. Either Ao felt the world needed to be punished (which doesn't seem likely), or he was unable to crown a new 'goddess of magic' (join the power to a new sentience).
Sorry for the long response - as I said, I haven't been on in a few days, so I had a lot built up.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Apr 2012 17:41:44 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 17:21:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Sorry for the long response...
Doesn't bother me any.
One of the best ways to view the Realms is by stepping outside of canon and thinking/theorizing about what we don't know. There's plenty of room to imagine all sorts of possibilities that way (one of the Realms greatest strengths is fueling the imagination).
I like reading your non-rant brain dumps, Markus.  |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 17:36:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I like reading your non-rant brain dumps, Markus.
Sadly, this thread (the very beginnings of it) made me realize something - there is an underlying 'mob mentality' regarding the Realms lately that poisons some of us, and I feel I have been a part of that for too long.
When I read the OP, and read the link, for the first time in a long time I was a bit optimistic... but then I came here and read other people's responses, and it immediately re-flavored my own response (which had been entirely optimistic until I read what others were saying). Now, I am not saying I am a big fan of more Drow material, but they are a big part of FR, and none of this violates canon, nor causes any other real RSE (as presented, thus-far). So while I will use the term 'optimistic', it is more along the lines of "that could work", rather then "thats the best thing I ever read!"
So maybe what I am trying to say is, folks need to try and see the bright side of things, instead of harping on the negative all the time. Taking a few days off to work around your garden also helps - sometimes you just need to remove yourself from the toxins and get some fresh air (and perspective).
--- Cheers, Mark |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 06:01:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Why can't a bunch of backstabbing bastards not build a nation? We already have a perfect example of that: Thay. In many ways, the Red Wizards are far worse than drow.
Because the drow would keep backstabbing even during war times.
And the Red Wizards do not do that? You SHOULD read Richard Lee Byers' novels. Excellent and highly recommended, btw. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 07:44:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Why can't a bunch of backstabbing bastards not build a nation? We already have a perfect example of that: Thay. In many ways, the Red Wizards are far worse than drow.
Because the drow would keep backstabbing even during war times.
And the Red Wizards do not do that? You SHOULD read Richard Lee Byers' novels. Excellent and highly recommended, btw.
I don't think the Red Wizards had inner factions trying to destroy/weaken each other while leading their conspiracy to give birth to a separate kingdom from Mulhorand. If they did, I guess their rebellion would have easily been crushed. After Thay became an actual kingdom the Red Wizards went back to their backstabbing.
That'd be the situation of the drow. If this RSE was about the building of a drow nation, then they would do so at expense to many other nations (as shown in that trailer) exposing themselves to heavy resistance.
So, the dark elves would have to change -and for a quite long time- if they wanted to come out successful from all this. And I guess it will be difficult for them, because betrayal for power is an element bound to the mind of every drow grown under Lolth domain (as far as I know, such a drow thinks it is necessary to life itself, which I don't believe a Red Wizard does).
This is where IMO the Red Wizards making their realm differs from the drow possibly trying to make one.
Also, thanks for the novel suggestions. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Rise of the Underdark
