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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 12:36:09
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I enjoyed the book for the doors and possibilities it opened more than for the book itself. Gauntlegrym overall was a more satisfying read.
Here is what I liked about the book.
The #1 of course being his meeting with Artemis Entreri so many years later. Their reactions to each other, a century later, is everything I thought it would be, and indeed, hoped for. My above prediction seems more and more likely now. Not only was Drizzt not upset to see Entreri, he was relieved. To see a remnant of his past still alive and kicking. The whole book, he thinks Jarlaxle is dead and all those who once knew him gone. His reaction to Entreri being alive was what I would expect from a person who thinks everyone who knew him then was dead.
Drizzt's character development. Once more, moving him towards a more realistic state than his normal goody two shoes paladin self. Drizzt is forced more and more into seeing the world through the eyes of those not strong enough to fend for themselves, and the desperate things it might drive them to.
In taking this angle, while developing Entreri's also in the opposite direction(Entreri at a few points in this book showed compassion and willingness to spare some people in battle if he could), they have certainly opened the door for Drizzt to hear of Entreri's upbringing of being raped as a child, and living in hopeless despair, being able to rely on nobody but himself to survive at any cost, and how it drove him to perfection in fighting.
Dahlia and Drizzt do indeed become lovers in the book. But at the end, when Entreri mentions Alegni's name, and Dahlia pretty much has a meltdown, Entreri clearly sees her pain and realizes that Drizzt does not, or cannot understand it. They have a similar past(Both raped as children, although it is not brought up), and it allows Entreri to better see what Drizzt cannot. I suspect now that her character really was brought in to bridge the gap between those two old mortal enemies. She will better understand Entreri than Drizzt can, and in learning what happened to her, and why she became as she did, Drizzt will also learn more of Entreri.
The introduction of Dahlia's son as a character will be a severe monkeywrench however. Granted it is not confirmed. But it is as obvious that the warlock Effron is her son as it was Barrabus being Entreri. Furthermore, Effron, for all intents and purposes seems to be powerful in his own right. Alegni seems to despise his infirmity, and wants to teach him to be a warrior rather than warlock, but Effron proved his usefulness early on.
Nice to see the Abolethic sovereignty being introduced for later use.
Szass Tam also has a few more appearances, and Bob does a good job portraying his near ultimate power. Fitting for a being who, for all intents and purposes, singlehandedly fought and beat a spellscarred, 2 powerful undead beings and 4 Zulkirs(each Zulkir as powerful as Gromph Baerne) in short order at the same time.
Which leads me to things I did not particularly care for in the book.
If we can have the prominent Szass Tam having cameos, is there really a need to introduce a random shadovar lord named Draygo Quick as Alegni's superior? Obviously, I don't expect the most high Telamont Tanthul, or his son, the Quasi god Rivalen Tanthul(Both comparable in power to Szass Tam) to be in charge or a mission like this. But why not throw a prince of shade a cameo? One would think locating a mythallar to add another floating city to the 2 they have would be important enough for, say, Lemorak Tanthul(The most powerful arcane spellcaster of the 12 princes) to make an appearance as overseer. And overall, I did not like the manner in which the shadovar were portrayed.
Beniago's character, and indeed, the entire trip to Luskan, seemed a bit too long. Those scenes were meant to show us where the old jeweled dagger was, and confirm to Drizzt that Jarlaxle was dead(Even though he is not). But it seemed to drag.
Mod edit: Added warning about spoilers to the subject. 
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Oct 2011 04:17:41
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phranctoast
Learned Scribe
USA
151 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 15:10:31
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| Must avoid reading until I get book...... |
Currently reading: Spider and Stone by Jaleigh Johnson: Sequel to Mistshore |
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Yoss
Learned Scribe
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 23:47:07
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quote:
Originally posted by phranctoast
Must avoid reading until I get book......
I know, right?
I feel so weak right now. Must close page.... |
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Yoss
Learned Scribe
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2011 : 00:13:41
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Ok, now I can play. I just wish I could read the notes I scribbled whilst reading. My handwriting sucks!
I've sort of been chomping at the bit since June or July or so, whenever it was that I finished Gautlgrym (being oh so very new to the Realms, having only delved into this stuff in the past year), the number one reason being for the Entreri comeback. I should probably stop 'round these parts finding a way to include that every time I post, because I'm somewhat afraid most of my posts here have had something to do with that character. And I actually do read other FR/and non-FR books. I didn't even like Entreri until The Legacy, but that dude morphed into one of my favorite fictional characters of all time. Enough about that. This is supposed to be all book review-like and stuff. The short version is something like the "ZOMG! ENTRERI!" factor very strongly out-weighed my general dislike for Dahlia, and not being overly thrilled about her being any sort of companion (whether they be romantically involved or strictly platonic, never mind clearly knowing where this was heading) running around with a Drizzt that I've also grown tired of to an extent. Yes, she is sarcastic, and her cynicism comes from a similar place as Entreri's as far as their backgrounds go. But the cold, passionless killer (and the slight transformation he underwent via Idalia's Flute) is far more appealing to me than an "erratic, erotic" bitch. I am slightly on the fence as to how much I like using it as a mirror for Drizzt's ultra-moral optimism. It's not exactly the same as the Entreri-mirror (and same would be a bad thing) because a lot of time has passed and plenty of character development has occurred. And I can't actually pinpoint any specific examples of what I dislike. I thought for a moment, during the first scene at the farmhouse, not so much that she's too cynical for me (I've yet to run into anyone, fictional or real, who I'd call too cynical. Cynicism is just the word that idealists give practicality when they need to assign negative connotations to it in order to hide their own impracticality). The gruffness in her manner, it's over the top. A truly terrifying stare and a couple snide remarks works for me. It's the overly outrageousness I don't like. Whether that's to hide insecurities or whatever else Drizzt was expounding on in the essay, remains to be seen. Still, in the meantime, nope. Don't like her.
Part of me worried that we'd keep with the super heavy-handed Barrabus-is-Entreri references all the way til the third part of the trilogy (which would have probably resulted in me adopting Valindra's insane habit of yelling out to Arklem Greeth). Those were terribly obvious, bordering on being blatantly annoying at times in Gauntlgrym and even more unnecessary here. I have to admit, while it does completely make sense, I didn't see the obviousness of Effron being Alegni's son that Firestorm pointed it out. Although with that mentioned, now I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case.
Ah, fight scenes, where sometimes the vocaublary does feel limited. There were some good ones, there were some dull ones. Overall, I do think this book contained far more worthwhile fight scenes that did serve to advance the plot and did not feel excessively long than boring. As usual, several key words and phrases make their way onto the list for the drinking game for which I haven't exactly created a list. But if I were to do so, and had read this book with a bottle of burboun, the number of times "heartbeats" were used to describe the elapsing of a very short amount of time alone would have got me hammered. Like if I had taken a drink of the number of times someone shook their feelings away in the Hunter's Blade trilogy, "sublimate" in the dark elf, "Ageis Fang pounded home" in Icewind Dale, etc. It's been there from the start, and clearly I jest--if wanting to slap RAS with a thesaurus on occasion was really a big deal to me, I wouldn't have read 29 books by the guy. I've probably skimmed just as many of the fight scenes as I have read, particularly Hunters Blade/Transitions, and post-Starless Night stuff that falls under the "legend of" sub-heading. The lesser ones in Neverwinter read like any ordinary RAS fight scene. Very few of them felt like the dragging battles between Many-Arrows and Mithral Hall. Maybe the point there was to impart on the reader how tired the protagonists were by the end of it, but it still made for some very tedious reading. So far out of the two books in this trilogy, I haven't felt that way yet. The ending of Gauntlgrym was epic, not rushed or overly extended, and a fitting send-off for Bruenor and Pwent. I was similarily pleased with Drizzt and Entreri fighting side-by-side again and alongside Dahlia. I might be getting a little worn out on the description of Kozah's Needle being broken into flails, but it doesn't come close to RAS's singular description of magic in which mages waggling their fingers is the only way to depict spellcasting. Which, even though a spell or two was flung in this novel, never did happened. I think we might have seen Szass Tam's boney lich fingers point at someone, but otherwise nothing.
This was an enjoyable read, and anything in the end, the only thing that I truly took issue with in this book was the reference to Entreri showing mercy on a priest in Calimport. Um, that totally happened in Memnon. Throwing the dirt at the Jestry-mummy did make me smile, though. From throwing sand to spitting sewer water to 100 years later still chucking bits of the environment in an attempt to improvise was something I really liked seeing from Entreri.
Unless I blatantly missed it, I am hoping to see a further explanation as to how Benagio came by the jeweled dagger. Entreri asked Alegni for it back, but it's clearly in Luskan. So does he simply not know this? Is there a connection between Ship Kurth's assassin and the Netherese I'm missing, or was it glossed over as something that will possibly be fleshed out a bit more later on? |
Edited by - Yoss on 06 Oct 2011 00:16:56 |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2011 : 09:42:42
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| I recall it being mentioned that Jarlaxle betrayed Entreri to Algeni amd gave him Entreri's sword...it could be that he gave the dagger to one of his connections in Luskan...im interested ti hear what happened between Jar and Entreri....hopefully in the third book. Listen we all know Drizzt is going to survive(I.e the Orc king and RAS contract to do six more books) but what about Entreri and Jarlaxle? |
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Yoss
Learned Scribe
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2011 : 18:16:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Drizztsmanchild
I recall it being mentioned that Jarlaxle betrayed Entreri to Algeni amd gave him Entreri's sword...it could be that he gave the dagger to one of his connections in Luskan...im interested ti hear what happened between Jar and Entreri....hopefully in the third book. Listen we all know Drizzt is going to survive(I.e the Orc king and RAS contract to do six more books) but what about Entreri and Jarlaxle?
Yeah, Entreri told Drizzt that Jarlaxle betrayed him to the Netherese and that's how Alegni came by the sword, but I'm just curious why Entreri still thinks Alegni has the dagger. It could have been as simple as
Alegni: I have the Claw, what do I need this silly dagger for?
Jarlaxle: Well, if you think it's silly, I'll hang onto it. I can think of some way to put it to use.
And then Benagio, as an important guy to a more powerful high captain of Luskan, being involved with the trade operations between Luskan and Menzoberranzan, came by it that way--either by doing some work directly for Bregan Daerthe, or some stroke of luck.
But it's all just speculation. As is Where in the Nine Hells World is Carmen San DiegoJarlaxle right now. And Entreri's survival. All throughout this book they're attributing the fact that Entreri has lived to 140-some years old based on the fact that attunement to Charon's Claw keeping him alive of its own evil volition. If he dies, it can rez him, and so on. Up until now all build-up as to what prolongs the man's life has been assumed off the absorption of the shade he killed. Is he going to free himself from Alegni, destroy the sword with the assumed understanding that if he does that, it will kill him, only to find that he's still not necessarily dying anytime soon because he's been infused with shadowstuff? That would allow him to kill himself, regardless of how sincere Entreri's suicidal tendencies really are once he's no longer a slave.
Oh, possiblities. Right. |
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Merrith
Learned Scribe
135 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2011 : 01:00:38
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| Entreri ASSUMES Jarlaxle betrayed him. I haven't read the whole Neverwinter yet so unless they explicitly say later in the book Jarlaxle gave him up to the Netherese it could just as easily have been Kimmuriel who never liked Artemis to begin with. In Gauntlgrym Entreri merely thought about how the dark elves came demanding he serve them with Calihye mixed up in it. It stated he killed those drow...perhaps Kimmuriel wanted to send a message to Entreri without Jarlaxle any the wiser. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2011 : 03:13:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Merrith
Entreri ASSUMES Jarlaxle betrayed him. I haven't read the whole Neverwinter yet so unless they explicitly say later in the book Jarlaxle gave him up to the Netherese it could just as easily have been Kimmuriel who never liked Artemis to begin with. In Gauntlgrym Entreri merely thought about how the dark elves came demanding he serve them with Calihye mixed up in it. It stated he killed those drow...perhaps Kimmuriel wanted to send a message to Entreri without Jarlaxle any the wiser.
Well, In Gauntlegrym, Entreri did specifically say "One does not double cross a person like Jarlaxle baerne without consequences" |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2011 : 03:23:45
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Merrith: Do you mind spoilers even though you are still reading?
Firestorm: A suggestion if you willl...can you add the word Spoilers in the title of this thread;-). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2011 : 04:18:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Drizztsmanchild
Firestorm: A suggestion if you willl...can you add the word Spoilers in the title of this thread;-).
Is done. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2011 : 14:55:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Drizztsmanchild
Merrith: Do you mind spoilers even though you are still reading?
Firestorm: A suggestion if you willl...can you add the word Spoilers in the title of this thread;-).
I figured since it said, "review", people would assume I was going to be talking about things that happened this book lol. |
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Andrekan
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 03:56:46
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As far as the A.E.(BtG)'s Dagger getting into the hands of a Pirate Assassin in Luskan, there could be any number of reasons, for many years have passed. Though Bregan D'aerthe had been working on recreating magic items and Artifacts which could have lead to the sell of such a life stealing weapon being sold to a potential rival for power, I think not. However when we think of the Netherese and their study and acquiring of such items. Waterdeep's Nobles and many other nations have Netherese agents in place to inform and work into the intrigues of an area. I think it is possible one such as this "Beniago" could have had dealings with Netherese or anyone along the Sword Coast. I just don't feel like it is a weapon to be released for coin by any power group without benefit for that group.
A great Read none the less though when I put this book down I feel like it will be too long a wait for the next book in this series to be released. :) |
"Those two talk only of drink, riches, women, brawling, and magic, so ye've a one in five chance..." Quote from "Elminster in Hell" |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 04:14:56
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So Szass Tam and the Shadovar didn't play major roles in this novel, just cameos? Who then are the "bad" guys? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 08:37:00
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| The people Drizzt and company battle at the end all work for Tam. The people that Drizzt and co go after un the Next novel work for the Netheres. Prob all minor characters in the grand scheme of things...but representative of the two groups. |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 08:39:56
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| Andre: Actually not selling....maybe Benny did a favor for Jar and it ended up a gift that way. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 08:46:14
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I browsed the book, especially the parts where Szass Tam appeared. Why was he always portrayed angry, and very obvious at that? That's not the Szass I knew in Red Magic and The Haunted Lands Trilogy. The Szass Tam I knew was so composed and could rein his wrath quite well. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 17:20:54
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| I didn't see him as angry...just disappointed at the consistent failure of his plans by his underlings....I take Tam doesn't do well with failure? Noy familiar with Tam my self |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 18:01:21
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Lashing out at his incompetent minions. He had never done that before. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 20:09:18
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| I dont recall him actually punishing anyone ...just implying the threat too. Amd he doesn't punish for failure? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 09:42:13
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He did. That guy with Sylora. He used the power of the Dread Ring and struck him with black lightning, and threatened to kill him if he rankled him again. I don't have the book, so I can't point you to the exact page. But that's basically what he did. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 10:52:08
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| Ah... I remember that ...ok.. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 12:18:25
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Szass Tam never used violence overtly even when furious, unless he's attacked. He also had a lot of servants in other novels who failed him, perhaps more disastrously than those in RAS’s. But never did he manifest such brutish, uncultured behavior. That’s why I was surprised when I read those few pages in Neverwinter. Was he like that in Gauntlgrym? Perhaps RAS simply has a different take of Szass Tam… |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 10 Oct 2011 12:22:05 |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 13:32:42
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| No...his cameo in Grym wasn't that big. Maybe he's changed over the past century. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 14:50:02
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Maybe he has. Though most likely it's yet another inconsistency. Which isn't something new in FR fiction. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 15:03:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Maybe he has. Though most likely it's yet another inconsistency. Which isn't something new in FR fiction.
I think it is because there is more at stake now then compared to the past. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 15:42:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Maybe he has. Though most likely it's yet another inconsistency. Which isn't something new in FR fiction.
I think it is because there is more at stake now then compared to the past.
Can you please elaborate? What is this “more” you refer to? His goals in the Haunted Lands Trilogy were clear: erect the Dread Rings and cast the Ritual of Unmaking to destroy the world and the deities and make him the overgod. Have those goals change? Also, was it explained why of all places was he building Dread Rings in the Sword Coast, which is so far from Thay, is hardly defensible, and attracts unwanted attention from several powerful beings. Furthermore, what are these 'primordial' and souls of people being fed to the Ring to empower it? That's not how the Rings operated in HL. It was noted that the Dread Ring in Neverwinter had been “activated” 1462 DR. Why would that be? There were already Dread Rings in Thay that time, and it was mentioned in HL that the Rings followed a certain geographical pattern localized in Thay. Thus, given the time frame, that one in NW was useless. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 19:00:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Maybe he has. Though most likely it's yet another inconsistency. Which isn't something new in FR fiction.
I would say it is more to educate the different reading group.
A lot of people read Bob's books exclusively regarding Forgotten realms, and nothing else in forgotten realms(Sadly, a lot of my friends are like this). Thus, why you see all these "best spellcaster ever = Gromph" or ""Best fighter ever = Drizzt" threads.
Showing that Szass Tam can swat and instill fear in some of the more powerful villains like flies is just to clue the non-DnD fans in more as to how powerful he is. This is a being who fought 4 Zulkirs as strong as Gromph Baerne + several other powerful character at the same time and beat them in short order.
A few of my friends who only read Bob related stuff were asking me about Szass and I quickly pointed out the above to them. They were speechless, wondering how the heroes could possibly prevail. I simply told them they could not if he chose to look in their direction personally, and the likelyhood of them ever meeting Szass was nearly zero, unless Szass went to congratulate them on their wits and foiling his plans(Which he has been known to do) |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 19:01:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Maybe he has. Though most likely it's yet another inconsistency. Which isn't something new in FR fiction.
I think it is because there is more at stake now then compared to the past.
Can you please elaborate? What is this “more” you refer to? His goals in the Haunted Lands Trilogy were clear: erect the Dread Rings and cast the Ritual of Unmaking to destroy the world and the deities and make him the overgod. Have those goals change? Also, was it explained why of all places was he building Dread Rings in the Sword Coast, which is so far from Thay, is hardly defensible, and attracts unwanted attention from several powerful beings. Furthermore, what are these 'primordial' and souls of people being fed to the Ring to empower it? That's not how the Rings operated in HL. It was noted that the Dread Ring in Neverwinter had been “activated” 1462 DR. Why would that be? There were already Dread Rings in Thay that time, and it was mentioned in HL that the Rings followed a certain geographical pattern localized in Thay. Thus, given the time frame, that one in NW was useless.
It is quite likely after the failure of his last set of Dread rings, that he is setting them up in multiple places in a geographical pattern just in case the same happens this time. He still has like 900 years, so he can patiently cover contingencies. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 19:11:54
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The Dread Rings in Thay had been rendered impotent in 1478 DR. That's 16 years after the supposed activation of the one in Neverwinter.
And again, why build it in the Sword Coast? To attract the attention of Telamont, the Chosen, and half of Faerun's most powerful beings so they could play poker? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2011 : 00:35:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The Dread Rings in Thay had been rendered impotent in 1478 DR. That's 16 years after the supposed activation of the one in Neverwinter.
And again, why build it in the Sword Coast? To attract the attention of Telamont, the Chosen, and half of Faerun's most powerful beings so they could play poker?
You are overthinking it.
No matter where he builds them, he is going to attract the attention of some powerful beings. And if that date is correct, most of the chosen are dead or inefficient by then.
Other than the Zulkir's and Aoth and co, nobody else even knew what the damned things were for. Those Szass had told did not actually believe they could do what he said they could. The only one who did believe it was Malark, the only other one to read the book of Fastrin. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Neverwinter: a quick review (possible SPOILERS)
