| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 12:36:09
I enjoyed the book for the doors and possibilities it opened more than for the book itself. Gauntlegrym overall was a more satisfying read.
Here is what I liked about the book.
The #1 of course being his meeting with Artemis Entreri so many years later. Their reactions to each other, a century later, is everything I thought it would be, and indeed, hoped for. My above prediction seems more and more likely now. Not only was Drizzt not upset to see Entreri, he was relieved. To see a remnant of his past still alive and kicking. The whole book, he thinks Jarlaxle is dead and all those who once knew him gone. His reaction to Entreri being alive was what I would expect from a person who thinks everyone who knew him then was dead.
Drizzt's character development. Once more, moving him towards a more realistic state than his normal goody two shoes paladin self. Drizzt is forced more and more into seeing the world through the eyes of those not strong enough to fend for themselves, and the desperate things it might drive them to.
In taking this angle, while developing Entreri's also in the opposite direction(Entreri at a few points in this book showed compassion and willingness to spare some people in battle if he could), they have certainly opened the door for Drizzt to hear of Entreri's upbringing of being raped as a child, and living in hopeless despair, being able to rely on nobody but himself to survive at any cost, and how it drove him to perfection in fighting.
Dahlia and Drizzt do indeed become lovers in the book. But at the end, when Entreri mentions Alegni's name, and Dahlia pretty much has a meltdown, Entreri clearly sees her pain and realizes that Drizzt does not, or cannot understand it. They have a similar past(Both raped as children, although it is not brought up), and it allows Entreri to better see what Drizzt cannot. I suspect now that her character really was brought in to bridge the gap between those two old mortal enemies. She will better understand Entreri than Drizzt can, and in learning what happened to her, and why she became as she did, Drizzt will also learn more of Entreri.
The introduction of Dahlia's son as a character will be a severe monkeywrench however. Granted it is not confirmed. But it is as obvious that the warlock Effron is her son as it was Barrabus being Entreri. Furthermore, Effron, for all intents and purposes seems to be powerful in his own right. Alegni seems to despise his infirmity, and wants to teach him to be a warrior rather than warlock, but Effron proved his usefulness early on.
Nice to see the Abolethic sovereignty being introduced for later use.
Szass Tam also has a few more appearances, and Bob does a good job portraying his near ultimate power. Fitting for a being who, for all intents and purposes, singlehandedly fought and beat a spellscarred, 2 powerful undead beings and 4 Zulkirs(each Zulkir as powerful as Gromph Baerne) in short order at the same time.
Which leads me to things I did not particularly care for in the book.
If we can have the prominent Szass Tam having cameos, is there really a need to introduce a random shadovar lord named Draygo Quick as Alegni's superior? Obviously, I don't expect the most high Telamont Tanthul, or his son, the Quasi god Rivalen Tanthul(Both comparable in power to Szass Tam) to be in charge or a mission like this. But why not throw a prince of shade a cameo? One would think locating a mythallar to add another floating city to the 2 they have would be important enough for, say, Lemorak Tanthul(The most powerful arcane spellcaster of the 12 princes) to make an appearance as overseer. And overall, I did not like the manner in which the shadovar were portrayed.
Beniago's character, and indeed, the entire trip to Luskan, seemed a bit too long. Those scenes were meant to show us where the old jeweled dagger was, and confirm to Drizzt that Jarlaxle was dead(Even though he is not). But it seemed to drag.
Mod edit: Added warning about spoilers to the subject.  |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| BEAST |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 01:15:10
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
So is Jarlaxle dead or what?... just finished Gauntlgrym.
Go back and read the Epilogue. He is very obviously not dead.
So I guess the answer to your question is "what".  |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 17 Nov 2011 : 19:08:42
So is Jarlaxle dead or what?... just finished Gauntlgrym. |
| Yoss |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 20:29:28
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Mandarb Carai an Caldazar
Artemis talks about attempting to kill himself and Charon's Claw decieving him into failing. While he does say that the sword wont let him die in the mental intrusion sense he also talks about things like: "He should have died many years before. He'd lived two lifetimes, but he hadn't died. He remained vibrant, strong, and quick as ever. The sword wouldn't let him die." p.237 NA Hardcover.
That's the only solid reference I could come up with with a quick skim of the book, I don't have the time or the inclination to read through it again right now. However, I recall Artemis making similar statements, mental or otherwise. That passage is Entreri in contemplation with himself, ergo, he believes that Claw is keeping him alive contrary to what we know Jarlaxle told him and what he experienced when he used his vampiric dagger to kill a shade. Now, it occurs to me that he thinks Jarlaxle betrayed him to Alegni so maybe Artemis thinks he was lying, I'm not sure, whatever the reason, that's the way it's laid out in the book.
Just a comment here, since I've recently completed Neverwinter. Artemis knows that it's the shadow-stuff he absorbed (with his vampiric dagger) that is responsible for his extended life and youth. But it's Charon's Claw that can revive him should he die through combat.
Does that actually get mentioned in this book? I know it was tossed around for ages as a very likely excuse to keep from killing him off, but I didn't think anyone actually mentioned that in the entire book (other than Drizzt's observation when they finally met up with each other about his complexion being wrong). AS far as I understood, the last it was mentioned was under the 'he wasn't really sure what absorbing shadowstuff meant, and Jarlaxle didn't seem to know either' heading. Sure, it would be odd if he hadn't learned something of it in the last 100 years, but I don't remember that being mentioned. Quote or general area for me to flip through? |
| Therise |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 01:47:05
quote:
Originally posted by Mandarb Carai an Caldazar
To clarify, I'm not arguing that the sword could bring him back were Artemis to die, all I'm saying is he makes comments like the one I quoted wherein he seems to believe that his ability to live multiple lifetimes without losing vitality comes from the sword.
It could just be a case of discontinuity, I can't know for sure because we have no way of knowing exactly what was changed during the editing process; the sentence could've been easily changed to something about the torment visited on him due to the combination of shadow-essence and Charon's Claw with no loss of impact. I just thought it was a little odd.
I think it's more an issue of perspective. Artemis hates being enslaved to anything, and as such (enslaved to the sword/shadowvar) he had come to hate living. The comments he makes about the sword "not letting him go" and "not letting him die" every so often, they have to do with that feeling: he is too useful a tool to his masters, and because he's also infused with a little shadowstuff they also think of him as something they own. The sword keeps him tied to Alegni, and he has no defense against it. If he were to allow himself to die (which he thinks about periodically), the sword would raise him and he would still remain the puppet of the shadowvar. So his existence has been rather hopeless. It has stolen his will to live, his vitality, because he is enslaved without hope of an end.
Oddly enough, Drizzt represents for Artemis a possible freedom from the sword and the shadowvar. For the first time in 100 years, he has hope: not hope of death and release, but being allowed to live again freely from that hated control - if they can capture and destroy Charon's Claw.
|
| Mandarb Carai an Caldazar |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 01:15:26
To clarify, I'm not arguing that the sword could bring him back were Artemis to die, all I'm saying is he makes comments like the one I quoted wherein he seems to believe that his ability to live multiple lifetimes without losing vitality comes from the sword.
It could just be a case of discontinuity, I can't know for sure because we have no way of knowing exactly what was changed during the editing process; the sentence could've been easily changed to something about the torment visited on him due to the combination of shadow-essence and Charon's Claw with no loss of impact. I just thought it was a little odd. |
| Therise |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 16:55:59
quote:
Originally posted by Mandarb Carai an Caldazar
Artemis talks about attempting to kill himself and Charon's Claw decieving him into failing. While he does say that the sword wont let him die in the mental intrusion sense he also talks about things like: "He should have died many years before. He'd lived two lifetimes, but he hadn't died. He remained vibrant, strong, and quick as ever. The sword wouldn't let him die." p.237 NA Hardcover.
That's the only solid reference I could come up with with a quick skim of the book, I don't have the time or the inclination to read through it again right now. However, I recall Artemis making similar statements, mental or otherwise. That passage is Entreri in contemplation with himself, ergo, he believes that Claw is keeping him alive contrary to what we know Jarlaxle told him and what he experienced when he used his vampiric dagger to kill a shade. Now, it occurs to me that he thinks Jarlaxle betrayed him to Alegni so maybe Artemis thinks he was lying, I'm not sure, whatever the reason, that's the way it's laid out in the book.
Just a comment here, since I've recently completed Neverwinter. Artemis knows that it's the shadow-stuff he absorbed (with his vampiric dagger) that is responsible for his extended life and youth. But it's Charon's Claw that can revive him should he die through combat.
I doubt that Jarlaxle betrayed him to the Netherese. It's possible, but the shadowvar were already hunting down Artemis earlier so they could retrieve Charon's Claw. Also, even though Artemis won his "battle of wills" with the Claw, it challenged him again when in the presence of a shadowvar (in the short story); so there's perhaps something about the sword that they can track. And once they decide to go after something, they don't do it piecemeal.
Interestingly, up until now we didn't know a whole lot about Charon's Claw, the extent of its powers and its history. I suspect we will learn a lot more with the third book.
|
| Firestorm |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 13:32:37
quote:
Originally posted by Mandarb Carai an Caldazar
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Mandarb Carai an Caldazar
In regards to the Netherese influence in the north I suspect we'll get some insight into their organization in the next Neverwinter book as Dahlia will want to do her utmost to kill Alegni and Drizzt wont abandon her. At the same time, I suspect (and hope!) Paul Kemp will give us more information on the Netherese in general and Telamont and his sons specifically in his next trilogy.
A Drizzt/Dahlia/Artemis team-up would be VERY formidable if the events of the next Neverwinter book take the course I suspect they will.
I found the Luskan scenes a good backdrop for Drizzt to show that he's moving on from his losses and finding his adventurous center again. I had also just assumed they were foreshadowing for future events, I mean, Artemis is going to want to go there once he figures out Beniago has his dagger and not Alegni.
Does anyone think we'll be seeing Jarlaxle in the next book? The readers are the only ones who know he landed on a ledge and likely escaped destruction if for no other reason than he (likely) had a portable hole on him and rolled into an extra-dimensional pocket or something equally Jarlaxle-slick. I for one am not sure why Drizzt is so ready to accept that he's dead without seeing a body or trying to call his spirit back to ask.
Also, was anyone besides me baffled that Entreri seems to believe its been the sword keeping him alive all this time after that short-story wherein Jarlaxle explains that Artemis sucked some shadowstuff into himself after using his dagger on a shade?
Entreri wasn't implying that the sword was the reason for his longevity. Merely that he had been killed a few times, but the sword has the power to resurrect him.
Artemis talks about attempting to kill himself and Charon's Claw decieving him into failing. While he does say that the sword wont let him die in the mental intrusion sense he also talks about things like: "He should have died many years before. He'd lived two lifetimes, but he hadn't died. He remained vibrant, strong, and quick as ever. The sword wouldn't let him die." p.237 NA Hardcover.
That's the only solid reference I could come up with with a quick skim of the book, I don't have the time or the inclination to read through it again right now. However, I recall Artemis making similar statements, mental or otherwise. That passage is Entreri in contemplation with himself, ergo, he believes that Claw is keeping him alive contrary to what we know Jarlaxle told him and what he experienced when he used his vampiric dagger to kill a shade. Now, it occurs to me that he thinks Jarlaxle betrayed him to Alegni so maybe Artemis thinks he was lying, I'm not sure, whatever the reason, that's the way it's laid out in the book.
Edit: Thanks Dennis, when I tried to delete it previously I missed the part where it says the author has permission as well.
And in the book, it also discusses how even if Artemis is killed in battle, the sword can bring him back. Since I lent it to a friend, I can't search for page number, but I distinctly remember reading that. |
| phranctoast |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 13:30:18
Spoliler-Haunted Lands trilogy
Yeah. The first two books were the Civil War. The Third book took place a 100 or so years after Civil War and the Spell Plague. |
| Merrith |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 06:10:58
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The Dread Rings in Thay had been rendered impotent in 1478 DR. That's 16 years after the supposed activation of the one in Neverwinter.
And again, why build it in the Sword Coast? To attract the attention of Telamont, the Chosen, and half of Faerun's most powerful beings so they could play poker?
I am actually quite annoyed by the fact that the Thayans are working so far from Thay. I'm not sure what the motive is for this. Did they feel like they needed someone strong enough to act as a foil to the Netherese? Are they just trying to cram in as many baddies into the area as they can to enhance gameplay? Either way it makes Faerun seem very small which i thought they were trying to get away from.
And it makes less sense, given that Szass Tam at that time was fighting a bloody civil war in Thay, where he needed all his available resources, living and undead.
Been awhile since I read the whole Undead trilogy but wasn't the majority of the civil war over much earlier? Hadn't the rest of the Zulkirs been pushed out leaving only a minor resistance element in Thay by this time? I thought there was a pretty large time gap between the end of the 2nd book in that trilogy and Unholy (3rd book). My memory could be foggy though. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 03:44:40
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The Dread Rings in Thay had been rendered impotent in 1478 DR. That's 16 years after the supposed activation of the one in Neverwinter.
And again, why build it in the Sword Coast? To attract the attention of Telamont, the Chosen, and half of Faerun's most powerful beings so they could play poker?
I am actually quite annoyed by the fact that the Thayans are working so far from Thay. I'm not sure what the motive is for this. Did they feel like they needed someone strong enough to act as a foil to the Netherese? Are they just trying to cram in as many baddies into the area as they can to enhance gameplay? Either way it makes Faerun seem very small which i thought they were trying to get away from.
And it makes less sense, given that Szass Tam at that time was fighting a bloody civil war in Thay, where he needed all his available resources, living and undead. |
| jornan |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 02:57:23
I'm not quite finished the book yet, but out of all of Salvatore's Drizzt Saga this book seems to have the most glaring setup for the the D&D game and the new Neverwinter campagin setting in general than any of the previous books game related storylines.
I know that was kind of the point and they don't even try to hide it, but I can't help feeling like the presence of Nethril, Thay, Luskan's Pirate Lords, and the Abolethic Sovereinty all crammed into this book are there more to show "gamers" that there are plenty of intrigues and baddies to fight in Neverwinter. I also don't think Salavtore or WizBro has any intention of finding a resolution for any of them in the region because their presence is more about the game than the book series storyline or the meta-arc of the Drizzt Saga. |
| Mandarb Carai an Caldazar |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 00:09:31
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Mandarb Carai an Caldazar
In regards to the Netherese influence in the north I suspect we'll get some insight into their organization in the next Neverwinter book as Dahlia will want to do her utmost to kill Alegni and Drizzt wont abandon her. At the same time, I suspect (and hope!) Paul Kemp will give us more information on the Netherese in general and Telamont and his sons specifically in his next trilogy.
A Drizzt/Dahlia/Artemis team-up would be VERY formidable if the events of the next Neverwinter book take the course I suspect they will.
I found the Luskan scenes a good backdrop for Drizzt to show that he's moving on from his losses and finding his adventurous center again. I had also just assumed they were foreshadowing for future events, I mean, Artemis is going to want to go there once he figures out Beniago has his dagger and not Alegni.
Does anyone think we'll be seeing Jarlaxle in the next book? The readers are the only ones who know he landed on a ledge and likely escaped destruction if for no other reason than he (likely) had a portable hole on him and rolled into an extra-dimensional pocket or something equally Jarlaxle-slick. I for one am not sure why Drizzt is so ready to accept that he's dead without seeing a body or trying to call his spirit back to ask.
Also, was anyone besides me baffled that Entreri seems to believe its been the sword keeping him alive all this time after that short-story wherein Jarlaxle explains that Artemis sucked some shadowstuff into himself after using his dagger on a shade?
Entreri wasn't implying that the sword was the reason for his longevity. Merely that he had been killed a few times, but the sword has the power to resurrect him.
Artemis talks about attempting to kill himself and Charon's Claw decieving him into failing. While he does say that the sword wont let him die in the mental intrusion sense he also talks about things like: "He should have died many years before. He'd lived two lifetimes, but he hadn't died. He remained vibrant, strong, and quick as ever. The sword wouldn't let him die." p.237 NA Hardcover.
That's the only solid reference I could come up with with a quick skim of the book, I don't have the time or the inclination to read through it again right now. However, I recall Artemis making similar statements, mental or otherwise. That passage is Entreri in contemplation with himself, ergo, he believes that Claw is keeping him alive contrary to what we know Jarlaxle told him and what he experienced when he used his vampiric dagger to kill a shade. Now, it occurs to me that he thinks Jarlaxle betrayed him to Alegni so maybe Artemis thinks he was lying, I'm not sure, whatever the reason, that's the way it's laid out in the book.
Edit: Thanks Dennis, when I tried to delete it previously I missed the part where it says the author has permission as well. |
| Caolin |
Posted - 02 Nov 2011 : 22:22:28
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The Dread Rings in Thay had been rendered impotent in 1478 DR. That's 16 years after the supposed activation of the one in Neverwinter.
And again, why build it in the Sword Coast? To attract the attention of Telamont, the Chosen, and half of Faerun's most powerful beings so they could play poker?
I am actually quite annoyed by the fact that the Thayans are working so far from Thay. I'm not sure what the motive is for this. Did they feel like they needed someone strong enough to act as a foil to the Netherese? Are they just trying to cram in as many baddies into the area as they can to enhance gameplay? Either way it makes Faerun seem very small which i thought they were trying to get away from. |
| jornan |
Posted - 02 Nov 2011 : 19:47:05
Salvatore, did mention in an interview that he was writing a lot about drow again for book three, so I would expect their presence would also include Jarlazle and Bregan D'Arthe (sp?) |
| Andrekan |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 23:46:10
As far as Jarlaxle, yes. I do think we will be given some information on what has transpired to give the series a holistic resolution. I also remembered Bob mentioning last Spring, that it seemed good to be writing about Drow in the Underdark again. So we will just have to wait and see. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 16:12:05
quote:
Originally posted by Mandarb Carai an Caldazar
In regards to the Netherese influence in the north I suspect we'll get some insight into their organization in the next Neverwinter book as Dahlia will want to do her utmost to kill Alegni and Drizzt wont abandon her. At the same time, I suspect (and hope!) Paul Kemp will give us more information on the Netherese in general and Telamont and his sons specifically in his next trilogy.
A Drizzt/Dahlia/Artemis team-up would be VERY formidable if the events of the next Neverwinter book take the course I suspect they will.
I found the Luskan scenes a good backdrop for Drizzt to show that he's moving on from his losses and finding his adventurous center again. I had also just assumed they were foreshadowing for future events, I mean, Artemis is going to want to go there once he figures out Beniago has his dagger and not Alegni.
Does anyone think we'll be seeing Jarlaxle in the next book? The readers are the only ones who know he landed on a ledge and likely escaped destruction if for no other reason than he (likely) had a portable hole on him and rolled into an extra-dimensional pocket or something equally Jarlaxle-slick. I for one am not sure why Drizzt is so ready to accept that he's dead without seeing a body or trying to call his spirit back to ask.
Also, was anyone besides me baffled that Entreri seems to believe its been the sword keeping him alive all this time after that short-story wherein Jarlaxle explains that Artemis sucked some shadowstuff into himself after using his dagger on a shade?
Entreri wasn't implying that the sword was the reason for his longevity. Merely that he had been killed a few times, but the sword has the power to resurrect him. |
| phranctoast |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 12:49:22
quote:
[i]
Also, was anyone besides me baffled that Entreri seems to believe its been the sword keeping him alive all this time after that short-story wherein Jarlaxle explains that Artemis sucked some shadowstuff into himself after using his dagger on a shade?
Does he believe the sword is keeping him alive or not letting him end his life? The sword heals him. He can't get out of it's service. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 05:53:46
You can actually delete the other.
Paul said the Shadovar would have fair amount of novel time in his Cycle of Night trilogy, [or at the very least, Brennus and Rivalen]. |
| Mandarb Carai an Caldazar |
Posted - 31 Oct 2011 : 23:30:49
In regards to the Netherese influence in the north I suspect we'll get some insight into their organization in the next Neverwinter book as Dahlia will want to do her utmost to kill Alegni and Drizzt wont abandon her. At the same time, I suspect (and hope!) Paul Kemp will give us more information on the Netherese in general and Telamont and his sons specifically in his next trilogy.
A Drizzt/Dahlia/Artemis team-up would be VERY formidable if the events of the next Neverwinter book take the course I suspect they will.
I found the Luskan scenes a good backdrop for Drizzt to show that he's moving on from his losses and finding his adventurous center again. I had also just assumed they were foreshadowing for future events, I mean, Artemis is going to want to go there once he figures out Beniago has his dagger and not Alegni.
Does anyone think we'll be seeing Jarlaxle in the next book? The readers are the only ones who know he landed on a ledge and likely escaped destruction if for no other reason than he (likely) had a portable hole on him and rolled into an extra-dimensional pocket or something equally Jarlaxle-slick. I for one am not sure why Drizzt is so ready to accept that he's dead without seeing a body or trying to call his spirit back to ask.
Also, was anyone besides me baffled that Entreri seems to believe its been the sword keeping him alive all this time after that short-story wherein Jarlaxle explains that Artemis sucked some shadowstuff into himself after using his dagger on a shade? |
| Yoss |
Posted - 24 Oct 2011 : 20:11:08
quote:
Originally posted by Andrekan
quote:
The Netherese have or do find the Fallen Citadel and WILL keep it a secret to everyone in that area. Whether it was Larloch's old Haunt that fell before Karsus we will just have to wait and see unless that is in another Novel somewhere. I think the idea is to wet the readers appetite to look deeper into the Forgotten Realms for answers.
What's that you say? Cross-marketing???
Yes, that might be possible, for there is some information to be looked at in the Neverwinter Campaign Setting which refer to this fallen city the Netherese have found. Yes, they are possibly planning to launch a floating fortress made for war like Faerun has not seen since before the fall of Karsus at Thay. Don't remember the exact pages but I do remember reading about something to that effect.
p.110...? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 24 Oct 2011 : 17:44:04
I don't think The Most High is that reckless. He may be able to win against Szass Tam and conquer Thay, but at a great cost, making himself and his empire susceptible to attacks by other power groups. There are several less powerful, more vulnerable realms he can seize first before moving on to the "big" and well-defended ones. Then again, Telamont is sly and keeps a lot of secrets. So for all we know, he had long ago captured some nations, or influenced their politics to the extent that their leaders would bend to his wishes, and soon will utilize them, together with the new-found enclave in Neverwinter, to supplant Szass Tam and secure Thay. |
| Andrekan |
Posted - 24 Oct 2011 : 17:25:08
quote:
The Netherese have or do find the Fallen Citadel and WILL keep it a secret to everyone in that area. Whether it was Larloch's old Haunt that fell before Karsus we will just have to wait and see unless that is in another Novel somewhere. I think the idea is to wet the readers appetite to look deeper into the Forgotten Realms for answers.
What's that you say? Cross-marketing???
Yes, that might be possible, for there is some information to be looked at in the Neverwinter Campaign Setting which refer to this fallen city the Netherese have found. Yes, they are possibly planning to launch a floating fortress made for war like Faerun has not seen since before the fall of Karsus at Thay. Don't remember the exact pages but I do remember reading about something to that effect. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 24 Oct 2011 : 04:50:07
D'oh! Gotta fix dat!
And thanks for the heads up by PM from darkwalk, as well! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Oct 2011 : 04:07:55
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Also, by my calculations, Artemis Entreri was probably born in late 1226 DR, which would've made him four decades old in the summer of 1367 DR in Servant of the Shard, exactly as described in the text. This would've also allowed for him to have seen more than four decades of life (i.e., 41 years of age) in the following summer of 1368 DR, in Promise of the Witch-King.
1462 DR - 1226 DR = ~136 years old at the end of Gauntlgrym.
1226 to 1367 is four decades? That's some interesting math...  |
| BEAST |
Posted - 24 Oct 2011 : 00:32:44
quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
On a randomly-related tangent: can anyone figure out how old Drizzt is, now? I'm guessing around 200, but my math is most likely off.
My calculations show that Drizzt was probably born in early 1298 DR, which indicates that he was 164 at the end of Gauntlgrm, around summer of 1462 DR. This coincides with Andrekan's calculation.
TSR and WOTC have gone with a 1297 DR birthyear for Drizzt, but I cannot understand why, given the time clues in all the books. It's complicated, to say the least.
At any rate, 1462 DR - 1297 DR = 165 years, which still would not make 168 years of age, so I don't know where Drizzt was coming from, there.
Also, by my calculations, Artemis Entreri was probably born in late 1326 DR, which would've made him four decades old in the summer of 1367 DR in Servant of the Shard, exactly as described in the text. This would've also allowed for him to have seen more than four decades of life (i.e., 41 years of age) in the following summer of 1368 DR, in Promise of the Witch-King.
1462 DR - 1326 DR = ~136 years old at the end of Gauntlgrym.
EDIT: Fixed Entreri birthyear |
| BEAST |
Posted - 24 Oct 2011 : 00:20:46
quote:
Originally posted by Andrekan
Though it may have been briefly mentioned in Book I in this Neverwinter Series the Netherese were searching for one of their fallen cities that was believed to contain powerful artifacts.
Aye, in Gauntlgrym we were told that Alegni was leading the Netherese Expedition for fallen Xinlenal Enclave in Neverwinter Wood. He was removed from command and punished in 1452 DR.
Sakkors Enclave was apparently raised again between 1452 and 1462 DR. We were told that the other enclaves continued to decay in the Phaerimm Desert.
And then just before 1462 DR, Alegni was reassigned as the expedition leader for Xinlenal Enclave. This indicates that Xinlenal still had not been found.
quote:
Szass Tam was may possibly have been searching for signs of it as well when he started to set up his Dread Ring there. This of course would be if it contained the Warlock's Crypt which belonged to Larloch.
That sounds possible. We are told that Tam considers the Netherese in Neverwinter his enemies, but we were never told why. Perhaps he wants the same thing the Netherese do.
When Dahlia first proposes the idea of unleashing destruction along the Sword Coast North, Tam jumps at the idea, but we are kept in the dark as to exactly why.
quote:
The Netherese have or do find the Fallen Citadel and WILL keep it a secret to everyone in that area. Whether it was Larloch's old Haunt that fell before Karsus we will just have to wait and see unless that is in another Novel somewhere. I think the idea is to wet the readers appetite to look deeper into the Forgotten Realms for answers.
What's that you say? Cross-marketing???
quote:
What may be important in this backdrop of events in this book may lead up to an events dealing with the Netherese being angered by Thay and possibly launching an invasion there beyond this Series. 
Indeed, the Netherese Shadovar have alrighty begun fighting Tam's minions and the Ashmadai cultists in Neverwinter Wood in Gauntlgrym. There, the actions are detailed, but never any of their motives. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 23 Oct 2011 : 21:10:54
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
quote:
Originally posted by Merrith
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
He had that same situation in The Haunted Lands Trilogy. But he never lashed out to anyone, except, of course, those who attacked him. He didn't even turn into some vengeful brute after someone whom he trusted [yes, you heard that right, he's capable of trust] betrayed him in the end.
He didn't have the same situation of having to build Dread Rings elsewhere. Up until the very end of Unholy, he could perform the ritual in Thay, his original plan wasn't a failure yet. Now while he does have 1000 years, he must find ways to construct more Dread Rings elsewhere in order to perform the ritual. Every success and failure from this point on is a little more urgent.
Not to mention the guy he was throwing the bolts at was a guy who wasn't even a Thayan but a member of a cult that was aligned with Tam's forces. He didn't even "get angry" with the guy, he just put him in his place as if to say "the important people are talking, stop interrupting".
The problem is that he is acting that way in Neverwinter before the attempt in Thay goes bad. That doesn't seem to jive with how he acts once the ritual is rendered useless in Thay. He offers to let the Zulkirs just walk away after suffering total failure and extreme betrayal. That doesn't sound like someone who blasts folk with death lightning over set backs that don't seem to actually set him back in anyway that we can detect yet.
In fairness, in Unholy, Szass was contemplating lashing at at a minion while he was in the basement hunting(unknown to him) Malark. At this point, he was preparing himself for the ritual, and to view all things with dislike.
And in Thay, there was no minor person stupid enough to interrupt Szass Tam or annoy him like the insignificant cockroach in Neverwinter. |
| Merrith |
Posted - 15 Oct 2011 : 07:49:53
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
The problem is that he is acting that way in Neverwinter before the attempt in Thay goes bad. That doesn't seem to jive with how he acts once the ritual is rendered useless in Thay. He offers to let the Zulkirs just walk away after suffering total failure and extreme betrayal. That doesn't sound like someone who blasts folk with death lightning over set backs that don't seem to actually set him back in anyway that we can detect yet.
This isn't an apples to apples comparison though. The combined Zulkiers are not the same as some random leader of an Ashmadai cult allied with his forces around Neverwinter. He has nothing to gain from fighting the Zulkiers, and very much to lose. Much easier to offer to let them just walk away. At the point in the novel, the Ashmadai fighter Jestry is really just a minor figure. He's not even lashing out in an uncontrolled manner just more of a "mom and dad are talking so go sit in the corner" type of way, as it was not "death" lightning since he hit the guy twice and he got up after no worse for the wear.
Also, you're looking at the timeline and thinking it makes no sense for him to act one way PRIOR to how he acts later on. But wouldn't it be possible if he had an earlier failure he was able to be more stoic about future ones knowing perhaps how he handled things previously was his undoing in those endeavors?
Or is your reasoning that this story years earlier of a Dread Ring outside of Thay was some sort of diversion or ruse to keep eyes from turning inward? Given how the book ends I wonder if Salvatore will even have Tam in the next book. I could easily see it being more about Drizzt/Dahlia/Entreri v. the Shadovar with no real mention of Valindra or the remaining allies of Sylora and Tam. |
| Andrekan |
Posted - 15 Oct 2011 : 05:59:04
I figured Drizzt's age up about six months ago in a discussion room somewhere on date references within Time lines of novels gauged to Realmslore event dates, overlaps in gaming products between editions and other information guides possible errors, speculations etc..
My total figure for that discussion was for 1479 DR Drizzt might be around 182 years old. I don't believe I received a reply on my estimations.
However, I believe my answer may have been mentioned in this latest book which it seemed like Drizzt figured himself 168 years old while he tried to figure out how old Artemis Entreri was, which Drizzt guessed 140 years old. Artemis was unsure for certain himself and always has been from childhood. The time frame of the events in this book, which is around 1462 DR, as I think someone mentioned earlier. I would have to check my book to be certain. It has been almost a week today since I finished it and it seems like a very long week has finally just ended. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 15 Oct 2011 : 02:16:52
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
quote:
Originally posted by Merrith
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
He had that same situation in The Haunted Lands Trilogy. But he never lashed out to anyone, except, of course, those who attacked him. He didn't even turn into some vengeful brute after someone whom he trusted [yes, you heard that right, he's capable of trust] betrayed him in the end.
He didn't have the same situation of having to build Dread Rings elsewhere. Up until the very end of Unholy, he could perform the ritual in Thay, his original plan wasn't a failure yet. Now while he does have 1000 years, he must find ways to construct more Dread Rings elsewhere in order to perform the ritual. Every success and failure from this point on is a little more urgent.
Not to mention the guy he was throwing the bolts at was a guy who wasn't even a Thayan but a member of a cult that was aligned with Tam's forces. He didn't even "get angry" with the guy, he just put him in his place as if to say "the important people are talking, stop interrupting".
The problem is that he is acting that way in Neverwinter before the attempt in Thay goes bad. That doesn't seem to jive with how he acts once the ritual is rendered useless in Thay. He offers to let the Zulkirs just walk away after suffering total failure and extreme betrayal. That doesn't sound like someone who blasts folk with death lightning over set backs that don't seem to actually set him back in anyway that we can detect yet.
You beat me to it. Well said.
quote:
I wonder if the Neverwinter Dread Ring is some type of decoy. It's meant to attract attention to itself so none of the powerful folk in that neck of the woods are contemplating venturing into Thay (and potentially stumbling onto Tam's real plans). Or to distract, or actively oppose, the Netherese. I suppose the down side to that idea is that it could end up drawing attention to Thay itself.
I say it's rather unlikely for the same reason you noted: it would eventually draw attention to Thay. Also, I don't think Szass would have to worry about the Netherese. Telamont's empire is too far from Thay that he hardly considers the undead land a threat. |
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