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Farrel
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
239 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  14:20:31  Show Profile Send Farrel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


Actually, a fire every now and again is good for a forest. It clears out all the underbrush and everything, and gives a chance for new plants and trees to grow.



I can recall that certain plants actually need a fire to sweep through an area before they either germinate or cast their seeds... not sure what plants though (damn my rotten memory!), i'm pretty sure some of the vegetation in Western Australia require this.

Good old David Attenborough, seems like I might've learned something after all
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  16:39:28  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Farrel

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


Actually, a fire every now and again is good for a forest. It clears out all the underbrush and everything, and gives a chance for new plants and trees to grow.



I can recall that certain plants actually need a fire to sweep through an area before they either germinate or cast their seeds... not sure what plants though (damn my rotten memory!), i'm pretty sure some of the vegetation in Western Australia require this.

Good old David Attenborough, seems like I might've learned something after all

Both smoke and fire promote germination in some native Western Australia plants and trees. The seed-bearing components of the banksia tree, for example, are often opened as a result of a bushfire that may have swept through the area.

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Yoss
Learned Scribe

USA
259 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  16:43:13  Show Profile Send Yoss a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Don't park services do burns in order to help the natural ecology, and cut down on crazy amounts of brush that make it more difficult to fight a forest fire when they occur non-man-made? Sounds vaguely like something I don't remember from a fire science class I dropped out of 5 or 6 years ago.



All I know is that I want no part of casting a spell that requires me to use some sort of blood and urine paste as a component.
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Farrel
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
239 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  17:58:11  Show Profile Send Farrel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Yoss

All I know is that I want no part of casting a spell that requires me to use some sort of blood and urine paste as a component.



In the original Lords of Darkness (TSR9240/REF5) there's a short story about Skeletons. It mentions that a Potion of Undead Control is completely disgusting to drink and that the more powerful Undead that it enables the imbiber to control, the worse it tastes...

Human Mage: Don't worry guys those Ghouls shouldn't be a problem, i'll just drink this Potion of Undead Control and things will be just dandy!
/Quaffs Potion
Human Mage: Oh gods that was vile!
/Turns green
Human Mage: Bleeeuurrgghhh!
/Vomits
Elf Bard: Not over my boots you cretin!
Human Mage: I don't think it's worked...
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7970 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  18:54:57  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Necromantic spell, item, and potion components do tend to be the most foul and disgusting. But then again, even the first level spider climb spell requires the caster swallows a live spider, not an experience most people would find tasty. This basically tells me that Gygax was trying to gross out is kids while playing. It also makes me wonder why there aren't more medieval witch-burning sorts of wizard lynchings.

Yet, if anyone actually bothers to really examine the ingredients in typical bottles of soda, chocolate bars, and hot dog weiners they will probably never want to go near such disgusting processed chemical garbage again. A potion of undead control doesn't look half as bad when compared against what goes into so-called chicken nuggets.

As far as the oddball components in identify ... I'd always thought the pearl and feather were ground into powder and mixed into the wine, a little of which was dabbed onto the item to be examined whilst the rest was steadily consumed by the wizard over the course of the hour. The resulting penalty to CON is basically a combination of indigestion and hangover, wizards really can't hold their drink.

[/Ayrik]
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Farrel
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
239 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  19:04:48  Show Profile Send Farrel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Necromantic spell, item, and potion components do tend to be the most foul and disgusting. But then again, even the first level spider climb spell requires the caster swallows a live spider, not an experience most people would find tasty. This basically tells me that Gygax was trying to gross out is kids while playing. It also makes me wonder why there aren't more medieval witch-burning sorts of wizard lynchings.


I personally would make a terrible Wizard, I can't even look at spiders without breaking out in a cold sweat

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik


Yet, if anyone actually bothers to really examine the ingredients in typical bottles of soda, chocolate bars, and hot dog weiners they will probably never want to go near such disgusting processed chemical garbage again. A potion of undead control doesn't look half as bad when compared against what goes into so-called chicken nuggets.


How do you like your Baloney? I like mine with extra lips, eyelids and buttholes thanks

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik


As far as the oddball components in identify ... I'd always thought the pearl and feather were ground into powder and mixed into the wine, a little of which was dabbed onto the item to be examined whilst the rest was steadily consumed by the wizard over the course of the hour. The resulting penalty to CON is basically a combination of indigestion and hangover, wizards really can't hold their drink.


Continual usage of this spell would give alot of Wizards terrible Gall Stones after a while.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  19:05:50  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Whoever conjured Xingax, he/she must have eaten some nasty spell components.

Every beginning has an end.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  19:09:43  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I could swear I recall reading somewhere that Halflings can actually O.D. on cheese - if they eat too much they get an intoxication effect.

Ed would know... he literally wrote the book on Halflings.
Maybe it was a specific type of cheese... can't remember the details.

I have no Realms-specific examples, but Scify.Fantasy is rife with the stuff. You have the psi-enhancing 'Spice' from Dune, the 'Sponge' from the Wellworld series (had an effect similar to Voodoo zombies - the addiction was so bad you could turn people to near-mindless slaves), and there was also one in the Earthsea novels - something that they ate and turned their teeth black, IIRC.

And then there were the Lotus-Eaters of Greek Mythology fame. I don't recall if that had an beneficial effects, so maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it. If we wanted 'plain old drugs', I'd have to include Krrf (sp?) from the Thieve's World anthologies.

There was also a drug derived from a strange creature (Alzabo) in the Book of the New Sun series, which allowed the imbiber to partake of someones memories, after eating some off that person (similar to what some ghouls can do). The ability was part of the creatures own repertoire - it ate someone and then mimic'ed that person's voice (and memories) from afar to lure their friends and family to their deaths.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Whoever conjured Xingax, he/she must have eaten some nasty spell components.
Now I have to wonder if the Imaskari who summoned the Krakentua had to eat Sushi.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 25 Oct 2011 19:12:29
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  19:10:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Yoss

Don't park services do burns in order to help the natural ecology, and cut down on crazy amounts of brush that make it more difficult to fight a forest fire when they occur non-man-made? Sounds vaguely like something I don't remember from a fire science class I dropped out of 5 or 6 years ago.


Indeed. Preventing forest fires for too long can allow for a buildup of highly flammable material, which makes subsequent fires much harder to control. Using controlled burns allows for the same positive effects of a forest fire, without having it rage out of control. And the end result is that there's less potential for uncontrolled fires.


quote:
Originally posted by Yoss

All I know is that I want no part of casting a spell that requires me to use some sort of blood and urine paste as a component.



Honestly, I wouldn't regard spell components as a source of power. I see spell components -- whether verbal, somantic, or material -- as a way of shaping the magic you've tapped into. It's like an extension cord -- it doesn't generate electricity, it just allows you to control it and put it where you want it.

As I'm reading it, the original post is more about things like Popeye and his can of spinach.


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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  19:15:30  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So basically, naturally (or unnaturally) occurring substances that act like magical potions.

So no brewed potions, recreational drugs, spell-components, etc...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  19:25:25  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I could swear I recall reading somewhere that Halflings can actually O.D. on cheese - if they eat too much they get an intoxication effect.

Ed would know... he literally wrote the book on Halflings.
Maybe it was a specific type of cheese... can't remember the details.

I have no Realms-specific examples, but Scify.Fantasy is rife with the stuff. You have the psi-enhancing 'Spice' from Dune, the 'Sponge' from the Wellworld series (had an effect similar to Voodoo zombies - the addiction was so bad you could turn people to near-mindless slaves), and there was also one in the Earthsea novels - something that they ate and turned their teeth black, IIRC.

And then there were the Lotus-Eaters of Greek Mythology fame. I don't recall if that had an beneficial effects, so maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it. If we wanted 'plain old drugs', I'd have to include Krrf (sp?) from the Thieve's World anthologies.

There was also a drug derived from a strange creature (Alzabo) in the Book of the New Sun series, which allowed the imbiber to partake of someones memories, after eating some off that person (similar to what some ghouls can do). The ability was part of the creatures own repertoire - it ate someone and then mimic'ed that person's voice (and memories) from afar to lure their friends and family to their deaths.

Those are good examples, MT. I remember, there's a character in HunterXHunter, a member of the renowned group Spider [aka Geni Ryodan], whose "live" vacuum cleaner eats almost anything. She cleans her group's literally bloody mess.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Whoever conjured Xingax, he/she must have eaten some nasty spell components.
Now I have to wonder if the Imaskari who summoned the Krakentua had to eat Sushi.
Sushi? Well, Samas Kul had to eat roasted boar before casting his most powerful transmutation spell.

Every beginning has an end.
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Yoss
Learned Scribe

USA
259 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  19:48:10  Show Profile Send Yoss a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Yoss

All I know is that I want no part of casting a spell that requires me to use some sort of blood and urine paste as a component.



Honestly, I wouldn't regard spell components as a source of power. I see spell components -- whether verbal, somantic, or material -- as a way of shaping the magic you've tapped into. It's like an extension cord -- it doesn't generate electricity, it just allows you to control it and put it where you want it.

As I'm reading it, the original post is more about things like Popeye and his can of spinach.





Ah ok, yeah I see what you're saying.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7970 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  20:27:59  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I suppose I can agree with that. If a player is really disgusted by the idea of swallowing wriggling spiders then he can always attempt to research that spell again, with a different approach, again and again, until he gets something more palatable.

Likewise with magical item design. If your research suggests you need "nine drops of smoldering hatred distilled from a god's soul" and the beating hearts of a dozen ancient dragons and the ears of a thousand shades, then you just might want to try new research in the hopes of designing the item in a way which requires fewer impossible components.

[/Ayrik]
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Therise
Master of Realmslore

1272 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  22:04:47  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The spider is probably consumed anyway by the activation of the magic, as most material components are.

I doubt that it actually makes its way down to the stomach for digestion.

Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families!
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3131 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  22:07:21  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Therise

The spider is probably consumed anyway by the activation of the magic, as most material components are.

I doubt that it actually makes its way down to the stomach for digestion.




This is going to anger the arachnid activists out there...

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  22:16:30  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Likewise with magical item design. If your research suggests you need "nine drops of smoldering hatred distilled from a god's soul" and the beating hearts of a dozen ancient dragons and the ears of a thousand shades, then you just might want to try new research in the hopes of designing the item in a way which requires fewer impossible components.

Archmages are ambitious and unrelenting. Impossible is not in their vocabulary. If they have a cut a god's tongue and use it as spell component, then they would do.

Every beginning has an end.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11701 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2011 :  01:33:39  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Hierophant druids of sufficiently epic level are able to stroll through Elemental Fire with ease. Although I suppose druids would tend to focus on mastering all the other basic elements before fire, since fire is natural but not particularly conducive to natural weather and ecologies.



Actually, a fire every now and again is good for a forest. It clears out all the underbrush and everything, and gives a chance for new plants and trees to grow.



Cutting down the trees can be good too for preventing these massive fires we see spreading all the time in certain parts of the country... people sometimes get too squeamish about this kind of stuff. Now, stripping an area barren... yeah, not so great.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2011 :  02:22:47  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Honestly, I wouldn't regard spell components as a source of power.
I kind of like the idea, actually.

Though, I'd make them specifically conditional sources of power only. For example, highly specialised and intricately crafted spells that aren't readily accessibly and which require extraordinarily unique components that provide significant arcane impetus during the casting.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2011 :  04:07:30  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Honestly, I wouldn't regard spell components as a source of power.
I kind of like the idea, actually.

Though, I'd make them specifically conditional sources of power only. For example, highly specialised and intricately crafted spells that aren't readily accessibly and which require extraordinarily unique components that provide significant arcane impetus during the casting.



Why not simply say that the specialized crafting allows for better focus of the magic, which results in greater power/accuracy/whatever for the spell?

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2011 :  04:20:59  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Honestly, I wouldn't regard spell components as a source of power.
I kind of like the idea, actually.

Though, I'd make them specifically conditional sources of power only. For example, highly specialised and intricately crafted spells that aren't readily accessibly and which require extraordinarily unique components that provide significant arcane impetus during the casting.



Why not simply say that the specialized crafting allows for better focus of the magic, which results in greater power/accuracy/whatever for the spell?

That's applicable, of course.

But I also like the notion of establishing an external option for wizards, who may be without a penchant for specialised crafting, to make use of these unique spells for a one-time only effect. Obviously, they'll probably never again be able to cast these spells unless they find the same rare components, or, alternatively, increase their spellcrafting skills.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Edited by - The Sage on 26 Oct 2011 04:22:24
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore

USA
1151 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2011 :  05:33:00  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I could swear I recall reading somewhere that Halflings can actually O.D. on cheese - if they eat too much they get an intoxication effect.

Ed would know... he literally wrote the book on Halflings.
Maybe it was a specific type of cheese... can't remember the details.




I'm pretty sure this cheese was initially mentioned in the FR comics. One of the halfling main characters was terribly addicted.

I haven't read them in a while so this could be 100% nonsense, but I vaguely remember cheese being formed from catoblepas milk called death cheese as well.

Whether these two are one and the same I honestly can't remember.

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Likewise with magical item design. If your research suggests you need "nine drops of smoldering hatred distilled from a god's soul" and the beating hearts of a dozen ancient dragons and the ears of a thousand shades, then you just might want to try new research in the hopes of designing the item in a way which requires fewer impossible components.

Archmages are ambitious and unrelenting. Impossible is not in their vocabulary. If they have a cut a god's tongue and use it as spell component, then they would do.



After all, Karsus used gold dragon hearts and the TARRASQUE'S (!!!) pituitary gland to cast his Avatar spell...

Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!

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Edited by - Seethyr on 26 Oct 2011 05:39:15
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2011 :  11:21:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I could swear I recall reading somewhere that Halflings can actually O.D. on cheese - if they eat too much they get an intoxication effect.

Ed would know... he literally wrote the book on Halflings.
Maybe it was a specific type of cheese... can't remember the details.




I'm pretty sure this cheese was initially mentioned in the FR comics. One of the halfling main characters was terribly addicted.

I haven't read them in a while so this could be 100% nonsense, but I vaguely remember cheese being formed from catoblepas milk called death cheese as well.

Whether these two are one and the same I honestly can't remember.


Death cheese and cheeeese are not the same thing. You've got the details right about death cheese, but it's not the same stuff that Foxilon Cardluck of the Realms Master had a problem with. That stuff was called cheeeese, but Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog also names it Luiren Spring Cheese.

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Marc
Senior Scribe

657 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2011 :  08:03:26  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There's a spell in Ultimate Magic, you drink a pint of dead wizard's blood and learn one spell he knew

.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3131 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2011 :  14:08:30  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Marc

There's a spell in Ultimate Magic, you drink a pint of dead wizard's blood and learn one spell he knew



random spell?

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2011 :  20:22:20  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Addressing Sage & Wooly's sub-discussion:

I like the idea of specific natural materials (liquids, solids, and even gases) that have potion-like effects, and have even created about a half-dozen for my own setting (including certain coral and a type of bone), which do NOT need outside magic to activate (in other words, anyone can use them.. if they can find them). This means the item itself has it's own, internal 'magic'.

I also like the idea of alternate materials for spells, or re-engineering a spell to use different mats (perhaps with varying results).

But what about combining the two? Using a material component for a spell that already has an effect of its own? Couldn't something like that super-charge some types of magic? I think that would be an interesting concept. For instance, if you used a spell that required a pearl, and you used a rare type of pearl that had its own magic-like use, then would you have both effects, some sort of combo-effect, or would it create an entirely new effect?

The original MM's used to give uses for some monster-parts that didn't always require being used as a mat or in a potion - I loved that about them. Sometimes it even gave multiple, extended uses like the ones I am talking about (a stand-alone effect, and its ability to boost a known-spell if used as a component). I would think a world like Toril would be rife with this sort of thing, and I'd bet my last dollar that Ed probably had lists and lists of just this kind of thing (judging by the amount he managed to squeeze into the Volo's Guides).

And on this tangent....

In SECERTS (3rd party), it proposed that part of the secret-ingredients of the Lichdom Ritual was to cast a healing-spell at the precise moment of death. That the Necromantic (Negative/Umbral Energy) magic killed the person and prepared them for Lichdom, but required a tiny bit of 'life' (positive/Radiant energy) as the catalyst for success. Just 1HP worth was all that was needed.

That means that sometimes you have to have an item/mat that is in opposition to the spell itself for it to work, or to generate an epic outcome.

It gets fun when you consider the random - but related - kinds of failure effects you could apply, and the unique types of undead you could generate depending upon where the ritual went wrong. On the other hand, theoretically, all Liches are unique, since each one must research their own methods.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 27 Oct 2011 20:41:28
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Marc
Senior Scribe

657 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2011 :  09:04:51  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've seen a spell somewhere that turns potions solid

quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478

quote:
Originally posted by Marc

There's a spell in Ultimate Magic, you drink a pint of dead wizard's blood and learn one spell he knew



random spell?



you can pick

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-transcription

.
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Quale
Master of Realmslore

1757 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2011 :  12:27:12  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
MT, there are 3P books by Ronin Arts (101 Arcane Components and 101 Divine Components) that enhance spells.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3131 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2011 :  14:16:20  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Marc

I've seen a spell somewhere that turns potions solid

quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478

quote:
Originally posted by Marc

There's a spell in Ultimate Magic, you drink a pint of dead wizard's blood and learn one spell he knew



random spell?



you can pick

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-transcription



very nice

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2011 :  16:59:02  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

What does a necromancer need to chew and shallow to summon that [female] demon of decay in The Haunted Lands?

Every beginning has an end.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7970 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2011 :  18:43:20  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Because it's gross and vile and seems ritualistic, the novel managed to reinforce the fact that the necro is a bad guy.

Although phagic practices are often seen in occult writing, consuming the heart, blood, flesh, or organs of various creatures, or of great enemies slain in battle, to establish a symbolic link or to absorb their power.

[/Ayrik]
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