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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jul 2011 : 10:03:34
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This is not a rant(at least i think so) but rather a sort of want to find out about certain things in dnd. I hope that the sages and scribes out there can illuminate my problem or problems at it is...
First off, about liches. I know that there are spells that can help a lich separate his phylactery and essentially provide him with a bonus to help stave off oblivion. With the spell Aumvor's fragmented phylactery, what i would like to know is that is it applicable for pcs, and if so how? If a phylactery were a necklace or amulet that i could understand, maybe the links of the chain would be imbued with the lich's soul but what about a gemstone, if a gem shaped like a bar were to be cast with the fragmented phylactery spell how would it separate, would a piece of it simply fall off? And another thing, for Aumvor whose phylactery is a skeleton which has been separated 206 times(since its a skeleton!!!) where would he reform at. Which bone would he pop out of? And the question is also posted to my earlier query about fragmenting your own phylactery, where would you pop out of?
For my second question, the new 4e wizards and sorcerers has me stumped. I cant seem to make head or tail of it. I mean i do like the whole idea of dropping the memorising spells thing but now it seems like they bungled up the spells of dnd. You would have to be a certain level like 29 to cast circle of death???(at least i think so but bear with me, i mean im sure that you found the level with which to cast a certain spell to be a bit ludicrous) And i read 4e races and classes and they have separated the wizard?? Now with illusionist, necromancer and such but they do not seem all that powerful at least no so much to me. With sorcerers getting their own spell list how does that work, if you were a cosmic sorcerer(its a spell source thing i believe, if anyone would like to clarify please do so) would that mean you could not learn dragon magic spell or something like that.
Either way i simply would like all of you to just help me understand dnd a little bit more and you can all put your 2 copper's worth of opinions in too.
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Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2011 : 16:12:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
For my second question, the new 4e wizards and sorcerers has me stumped. I cant seem to make head or tail of it. I mean i do like the whole idea of dropping the memorising spells thing but now it seems like they bungled up the spells of dnd. You would have to be a certain level like 29 to cast circle of death???(at least i think so but bear with me, i mean im sure that you found the level with which to cast a certain spell to be a bit ludicrous)
You still have to memorize spells as a wizard in 4E, it's the main reason why you have a spellbook which holds all your encounter, daily, and utility spells. The benefit of this feature is that a wizard is the only class able to have more than 1 option per spell without having to worry about retraining. So a Cleric can only have one 5th level daily prayer while the wizard automatically gain two 5th level daily spells (he can still only prepare 1) but this gives the wizard more versatility. The spells in 4E also range from levels 1-30, which coincides with the level of your character, instead of spanning 9 levels of spells over 20+ levels of character advancement as it was in 3E and prior. It's a big change from one edition to another, I know, but the actual power of the spell is still relative to the power of the caster.
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
And i read 4e races and classes and they have separated the wizard?? Now with illusionist, necromancer and such but they do not seem all that powerful at least no so much to me.
I'm assuming you mean the differences between the Mage and the Arcanist, both of which are indeed a "Wizard". This is one thing I'm not overtly excited about in 4E. It was with the release of Essentials products that gave us "Sub" classes and new names for those sub-classes. The Knight and Slayer are both a sub-class of the Fighter as is the Mage a sub-class of the Wizard. This means that while they have certain features that are different, they can still draw from powers of the "parent" class, feats with the parent's class requirement, and Paragon Paths/Epic Destinies of the parent class. So for example, a Mage can choose spells that are found in the Arcane Power book, listed under Wizard becaus the Mage is just a different version/flavor of the original Wizard.
Where the mix-up is starting to arise is that they (WotC) decided to rename the original classes to sort out any confusion, lol. So they renamed the original fighter as a Weaponmaster, the cleric as a Templar, the rogue as a Scoundrel, and the wizard as an Arcanist. This will no doubt be followed as other supplements come out and the original classes are renamed.
As for the differences between say...an Illusionist and Necromancer, it's pretty much flavor, theme, and what you want your character to do in combat. I don't think neither is more powerful than the other, but the Mage and Arcanist (again, both Wizards) are powerful compared to other controllers in 4E. Could you give an example of what you think might not be powerful?
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
With sorcerers getting their own spell list how does that work, if you were a cosmic sorcerer(its a spell source thing i believe, if anyone would like to clarify please do so) would that mean you could not learn dragon magic spell or something like that.
Regardless of feature choice, you can choose ANY power available to your class at that specific level. So a Cosmic-based sorcerer can choose spells that have Dragon Magic effects, but you don't get those effects listed. Same goes for a Warlock with the Fey pact. They're freely allowed to choose powers with different Pacts, they just don't gain all the benefits of that spell because their pact is different.
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Either way i simply would like all of you to just help me understand dnd a little bit more and you can all put your 2 copper's worth of opinions in too.
I hope this helps some. In my opinion, I like diversity within a class. The fact that your paladin might be vastly different in feats, play-style, and attitude than my paladin AND the differences are backed up by the rules makes it more fun. Same goes for say...a Fighter. One fighter, who specializes in Two-Weapon Fighting is going to be completly different than one that uses a Spear and Shield (or what I like to call "Spartian Style") and that's not only reflected in the feats they choose, but the class features and powers as well. Yet both fulfill the same role of Defender pretty darn well. Case in point, you don't sacrifice usefulness for flavor. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2011 : 18:06:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
First off, about liches. I know that there are spells that can help a lich separate his phylactery and essentially provide him with a bonus to help stave off oblivion. With the spell Aumvor's fragmented phylactery, what i would like to know is that is it applicable for pcs, and if so how? If a phylactery were a necklace or amulet that i could understand, maybe the links of the chain would be imbued with the lich's soul but what about a gemstone, if a gem shaped like a bar were to be cast with the fragmented phylactery spell how would it separate, would a piece of it simply fall off? And another thing, for Aumvor whose phylactery is a skeleton which has been separated 206 times(since its a skeleton!!!) where would he reform at. Which bone would he pop out of? And the question is also posted to my earlier query about fragmenting your own phylactery, where would you pop out of?
-If a PC knew the spell/ritual, sure, he/she/it could use the spell/ritual. As for the most of the rest of your questions, I'd assume that it's up to you to decide- especially since we've never seen it "in action". What bone does he pop out of? Whichever one he decides on, or whichever one you decide on, if you are a DM.
-I've never particularly seen Liches reforming literally from whatever it is their phylacteries are. So, for example, if a bone is his phylactery, he's not going to literally form from that bone. If a gemstone is his phylactery, he's not going to literally form from that gemstone. Instead, he magically comes out of it, and forms a physical form, but the bone, gemstone, box, whatever, isn't involved in the process of magic giving the Lich a physical form again. It contains the Lich's soul, and all, but that's about all it's good for. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2011 : 18:15:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I've never particularly seen Liches reforming literally from whatever it is their phylacteries are. So, for example, if a bone is his phylactery, he's not going to literally form from that bone. If a gemstone is his phylactery, he's not going to literally form from that gemstone. Instead, he magically comes out of it, and forms a physical form, but the bone, gemstone, box, whatever, isn't involved in the process of magic giving the Lich a physical form again. It contains the Lich's soul, and all, but that's about all it's good for.
That's how I've always seen it -- it's more of a tether, keeping the lich from moving on to a proper afterlife by anchoring his soul to the Prime. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2011 : 01:33:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I've never particularly seen Liches reforming literally from whatever it is their phylacteries are. So, for example, if a bone is his phylactery, he's not going to literally form from that bone. If a gemstone is his phylactery, he's not going to literally form from that gemstone. Instead, he magically comes out of it, and forms a physical form, but the bone, gemstone, box, whatever, isn't involved in the process of magic giving the Lich a physical form again. It contains the Lich's soul, and all, but that's about all it's good for.
That's how I've always seen it -- it's more of a tether, keeping the lich from moving on to a proper afterlife by anchoring his soul to the Prime.
Indeed. And it reinforces the notion of why it is so vitally important for adventurers to destroy a lich's phylactery -- and thus sever his/her/it's connection to the Prime Material Plane. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2011 : 09:55:45
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Thanks for your comments and i hope that you will bear with me a little longer.
In 3e or 3.5e the process of lichdom, is it detailed for that edition of the game? As for wotc whom i know have created a sort of class for it or at least a template, what about 4e does it still apply? If so how does one go about it, i mean i did enjoy the way wizards cast spells in earlier editions but now, how would a pc go about it?
And to Diffan, in 4e races and classes was classes like illusionist, enchanter , necromancer etc created to placate the masses or was it something else? I mean the spells are very theme appropriate but compared with spells from earlier versions it seems a bit underpowered? I mean im all for it but i still would like some spells like greater invisibility, fly and such for my necro. Would a DM allow wizard spell list to be used along with the spells provided in the class.(Also when they state spells in books (eg 4e races and classes) are those spells the only one allowed to be used for that class or what?) |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2011 : 12:52:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Thanks for your comments and i hope that you will bear with me a little longer.
In 3e or 3.5e the process of lichdom, is it detailed for that edition of the game? As for wotc whom i know have created a sort of class for it or at least a template, what about 4e does it still apply? If so how does one go about it, i mean i did enjoy the way wizards cast spells in earlier editions but now, how would a pc go about it?
There's no class I'm aware of in 4E that allows a player go obtain Lichdom. But, using the 4E DMG, you could add a template onto your PC (per the DM's approval) which acts sort-of like a paragon path (or in 3e terminology, a prestige class). Though this is really starting to loosen the balance of the game IMO.
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
And to Diffan, in 4e races and classes was classes like illusionist, enchanter , necromancer etc created to placate the masses or was it something else? I mean the spells are very theme appropriate but compared with spells from earlier versions it seems a bit underpowered?
I feel the Mage class in general was created to bring back that "Old School" feeling. They're the ones that gain the most from spells with appropriate schools in their Keywords. The PH Wizard can still freely use those spells with schools tied to them, they just don't gain any bonuses like the Mage does.
But your also comparing the spells of 4E to the spells of earlier editions and I don't think it works very well. Spells in 4E span 30 levels while spells in prior editions only span 9. Spells in 4E are designed to work more towards combat and the like and NOT have hourly effects. Take Invisibility for example, in 3E it was 1 min/level while in 4E it's a daily power that can be sustained (indefinitly?) by spending Standard Actions to keep going. Also keep in mind that Encounter powers can be used outside of combat every 5 minutes.
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
I mean im all for it but i still would like some spells like greater invisibility, fly and such for my necro. Would a DM allow wizard spell list to be used along with the spells provided in the class.(Also when they state spells in books (eg 4e races and classes) are those spells the only one allowed to be used for that class or what?)
Well if your playing a Mage (Essential Wizard) with the Necromancer school, you have access to all the Wizard spells in 4E. From the Player's Handbook to all the Essential material at your disposal. You can pick and choose whichever spells you like as long as it's a wizard spell. So you can choose fly or greater invisibility because your a wizard afterall. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2011 : 17:41:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
In 3e or 3.5e the process of lichdom, is it detailed for that edition of the game?
-Lich is a template that is detailed in the Monster Manual. Not many 3e sources go into much detail, story wise, other than the bare bones (no pun intended) stuff. For that, if you have access to Van Richten's Guide to the Lich, that's a 2e book that's really jam-packed with edition-neutral information. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 07 Jul 2011 17:42:47 |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2011 : 14:24:21
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Thanks. What about using necromancy to animate something large and powerful, if say a wizard used create undead/create greater undead on a dragon could he create something like a ghoul or wight dragon maybe something like that?
To the spells of enchantment, i read that mostly those spells are will-saves, is it feasible to have it, i mean it is useful but against some creatures it would not work right? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2011 : 16:42:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Thanks. What about using necromancy to animate something large and powerful, if say a wizard used create undead/create greater undead on a dragon could he create something like a ghoul or wight dragon maybe something like that?
From a 3e standpoint, it depends on a number of factors. You need Onyx gems with a ratio of 25 gp per HD for the undead creature. So a Wyvern with 9 HD would cost you 225gp worth of onyx gems. The creature wouldn't retain any special abilities or special qualities and would just be a big skeleton (with possibly better attacks and so forth). Same with zombies so forth. This is with Animate Dead. Create Undead is another matter, only allowing wizards to create what's from the chart, I believe.
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
To the spells of enchantment, i read that mostly those spells are will-saves, is it feasible to have it, i mean it is useful but against some creatures it would not work right?
Well they automatically won't work against undead and constructs and other creatures like fey and elves gain resistances towards this school (and possibly demons/devils). But in all other cases it works well. Espically with the feat Unsettling Enchantment (Complete Mage) and targeting big brute creaturs like Ogres, Giants, and Orcs where their Will is pretty low. And Prestige Classes like the Mindbender work well to make this a more viable option. |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2011 : 09:31:55
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Thanks Diffan.
My next question pertains to realms lore which is canon(i think) its about Karsus and his creation of heavy magic, what is is exactly? Is is usable, dangerous? What can it do?
Secondly, if in 4e a party faces a phaerimm sorcerer what spell source would the thornback use? Wild magic or cosmic, maybe storm? I don't think it will use dragon magic though. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2011 : 12:24:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Thanks Diffan.
My next question pertains to realms lore which is canon(i think) its about Karsus and his creation of heavy magic, what is is exactly? Is is usable, dangerous? What can it do?
Secondly, if in 4e a party faces a phaerimm sorcerer what spell source would the thornback use? Wild magic or cosmic, maybe storm? I don't think it will use dragon magic though.
Can't really say about the first question, my knowledge of the different types of magic is relatively low. I do know that Heavy Magic was detailed in the Tome oF Magic supplement (correct me if I'm wrong) which talks about Binders, Truenamers, and the like. Maybe that reference is something to go on.
As for the second question, monsters in 4E don't follow a Power Source like Arcane, Martial, Divine, etc.. If you've looked at any of the Monster Manuals you'll notice the lack of power source in their stat-block. The idea of them is designed for PCs, to show where they gain their abilities from, and to qualify for specific things like Paragon Paths and feats. Monster, on the other hand, don't require any of those things.
If you feel inclined to add them to monsters stats then I'd say a phaerimm sorcerer's power source would be Arcane. As for the sorcerer's spell source, I'd go Cosmic as it's unpredictable and other-worldly. |
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Thieran
Learned Scribe
Germany
293 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2011 : 16:35:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
In 3e or 3.5e the process of lichdom, is it detailed for that edition of the game?
-Lich is a template that is detailed in the Monster Manual. Not many 3e sources go into much detail, story wise, other than the bare bones (no pun intended) stuff. For that, if you have access to Van Richten's Guide to the Lich, that's a 2e book that's really jam-packed with edition-neutral information.
You could also try the article "Ecology of the Lich" in Kobold Quarterly #3 [ http://www.koboldquarterly.com/KQStore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3 ]. |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2011 : 02:10:28
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Thanks Diffan and Theiran.
What exactly is the power difference of liches against vampires in 4e?
I mean with heroes of shadow we now have a vampire class and vryloka race, but the lich has its own player template too, i mean on the wotc website for pcs that is.
What is the general difference in power, skills or abilities? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2011 : 12:46:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Thanks Diffan and Theiran.
What exactly is the power difference of liches against vampires in 4e?
I mean with heroes of shadow we now have a vampire class and vryloka race, but the lich has its own player template too, i mean on the wotc website for pcs that is.
What is the general difference in power, skills or abilities?
Well there isn't anything "technically" for PCs in regards to Liches. There is a template in the DMG that could be applied to a PC but it makes the character horribly imbalanced with the bonuses to certain criteria, defenses, and so forth. You could take some of the elements of the Template and turn them into a Paragon Path, accessable by specific classes such as the Wizard/Mage, Sorcerer, Warlock/Binder.
The difference is that Vampires are very straight forward in their abilities. The class only has a few choices at specific levels that a PC can choose between. The rest are just abilities and powers that are shoe-horned into the theme of a Vampire. But the class has features from 1st thru 30th level. The lich, by comparison, doesn't have any of that. It's abilities are tied in with a template (which adds onto a current character) and doesn't have anything really progressive in their powers.
Think of it in terms like this: the Vampire is it's own class, with levels and specific feats. It's designed to be used by PCs through all levels of play. The lich, however, is like a template added from the Monster Manual (v3.5), boosting the power of an already created character. A lich can be a Warlock Lich, a Sorcerer Lich, a Mage Lich, or even a druid lich. The vampire is just that.....a vampire. |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2011 : 10:32:14
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Thanks Diffan.
In 4e is is possible, when a high level pc like say in epic adventures or games, to use a golem or metal body. This question is something recent that i have been thinking about, since rereading unholy many times. The necromancer So-Kehur is merely a brain in a steel body, all i want to know is whether its possible for a pc to do the same without having to resort to a dm allowing it, I mean by that time surely an epic character could do it without the dm's consent right?? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2011 : 18:16:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
...I mean by that time surely an epic character could do it without the dm's consent right??
-I don't know the 4e rules, so I don't know if there is an ability, spell, Epic Destiny, or anything to that effect (I am guessing there isn't), but nothing a player does should be without the DM's consent. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2011 : 21:15:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Thanks Diffan.
In 4e is is possible, when a high level pc like say in epic adventures or games, to use a golem or metal body. This question is something recent that i have been thinking about, since rereading unholy many times. The necromancer So-Kehur is merely a brain in a steel body, all i want to know is whether its possible for a pc to do the same without having to resort to a dm allowing it, I mean by that time surely an epic character could do it without the dm's consent right??
Without referring to my books, one way of accomplishing something similar is to take the Self-Forged paragon path (Eberron's Player's Guide) though it requirs being an Artifier or at least having the Artificer multiclass feat. This gives you mechanical limbs and the like but you could probably reflavor it however you wish so long as you remain within the power/abilities of the Paragon Path.
Another avenue to take is to make a Ritual (which would be Homebrew) that transfers your "essence", "spirit", or "being" (take your pick) and placing it within a Construct like a Warforged. This would allow your sentinence to remain intact while being inside a living construct. You, of course, would retain all the benefits of your class, but your Race would technically change to Warforged and thus gain all the benefits of that races but lose all the benefits of your previous race.
Those would be the two ways I'd explain how to gain a metal body. One is more PC friendly and requires less "DM approvial" since there's nothing tweaking the mechincs of the game. The other requires a homebrew Ritual but I think that would be relatively small ripple on the over-all balance of the game. It does require DM fiat though.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I don't know the 4e rules, so I don't know if there is an ability, spell, Epic Destiny, or anything to that effect (I am guessing there isn't), but nothing a player does should be without the DM's consent.
To an extent, I wholly agree. A DM should be made aware of what your planning so that he can help you along with the story. I also feel a DM should be encouraging the to PC to get creative and as long as the two can work out any story problems or mechanical once, it should come along nicely.
But I feel that the rules of 4E are much better balanced that it requires less DM over-view. I don't have to worry much about what Paragon Paths pcs are gonna take that will completly break the mechanics side of the game. There is just simply less of that in 4E than in prior editions (I'm speaking from my vast experience of v3.5 here). |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2011 : 10:05:20
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Thanks though i did not see the artificier thing coming, i thought that wizards could do it maybe with a wish spell or something like that.
In Order of the Stick, I dont know if any of you read it but the protagonist(fighter) is riding with the antagonist(lich sorcerer) on a zombie silver dragon. He cuts off the dragons head but it doesn't plummit. Instead the lich explains that the zombie is mentally controlled and if he wants it to bank left and climb it just does. In dnd is this actually possible, cutting off a ghoul's head i understand you kill it and its dead(again) but cutting a zombie's head off?
PS the comic page that im referring to is 441. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2011 : 22:53:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Thanks though i did not see the artificier thing coming, i thought that wizards could do it maybe with a wish spell or something like that.
Wish spells do not exist in 4E (and probably for good reason). That being said, a wizard could do this with a Ritual and a construct's body but the Artificer is another way of doing it too.
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Thanks though i did not see the artificier thing coming, i thought that wizards could do it maybe with a wish spell or something like that.
In Order of the Stick, I dont know if any of you read it but the protagonist(fighter) is riding with the antagonist(lich sorcerer) on a zombie silver dragon. He cuts off the dragons head but it doesn't plummit. Instead the lich explains that the zombie is mentally controlled and if he wants it to bank left and climb it just does. In dnd is this actually possible, cutting off a ghoul's head i understand you kill it and its dead(again) but cutting a zombie's head off?
PS the comic page that im referring to is 441.
Hmm, the decapitation of a creature's head serves in destorying Vampires (that I know of) using 3E mechanics. 4E doesn't attempt to make the PCs perform this style of "slaying". |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2011 : 10:50:55
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They dont allow head chops?
I mean it is a role-playing game |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2011 : 10:57:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
They dont allow head chops?
I mean it is a role-playing game
Oh it's allowed, just not a requirement of killing a specific creature, like with the Vampire in v3.5 where you had to chop off his head and fill his mouth with holy wafers. |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 05:07:16
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Oh ok, but i wanted to know also is it possible for a zombie to able to remain animated without the head and if so, is it commanded mentally and still able to carry out its animator's wishes?
Another question about the liche(love'em to undeath) when a lich's body is destroyed and his soul goes to his phylactery, well this is where it gets puzzling. From different accounts, I know that the lich returns by possessing a body, maybe a clone of his former body or some such but there is also some evidence where a lich's undead spirit creates the body. How does this work? Do both methods count or only one does the trick of returning the lich to unlife?
Maybe in the undead spirit creation case, the lich has to expend more magicl energy to recreate his body, whereas possessing one takes minimal effort. What do you think? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 14:10:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Oh ok, but i wanted to know also is it possible for a zombie to able to remain animated without the head and if so, is it commanded mentally and still able to carry out its animator's wishes?
I'd suppose so as I don't think it's like Night of the Living Dead where the brain-stem holds it all together. Basically you can probably spin it however you wanted but a decapitated zombie doesn't automatically drop it to 0 HP or kill it outright in my book (unless your playing in a game where it does).
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Another question about the liche(love'em to undeath) when a lich's body is destroyed and his soul goes to his phylactery, well this is where it gets puzzling. From different accounts, I know that the lich returns by possessing a body, maybe a clone of his former body or some such but there is also some evidence where a lich's undead spirit creates the body. How does this work? Do both methods count or only one does the trick of returning the lich to unlife?
Maybe in the undead spirit creation case, the lich has to expend more magicl energy to recreate his body, whereas possessing one takes minimal effort. What do you think?
I've always assumed that the Lich manifested it's body from nothing, as in it's held together by strands of magic rather than the requirement of a corporeal body. The 4E rules are unclear on this and I'm away from my Open Grave book. Maybe the truth lies therein? |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 09:47:20
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Oh, is it also possible for a lich to have two or more phylacteries, and im not saying to split it like Aumvor's Fragmented Phylactery but like to have actually another soul-hidey place.
Like your original phylactery is a gemstone, and you make another gemstone your phylactery also, is that possible? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2011 : 08:11:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Oh ok, but i wanted to know also is it possible for a zombie to able to remain animated without the head and if so, is it commanded mentally and still able to carry out its animator's wishes?
Another question about the liche(love'em to undeath) when a lich's body is destroyed and his soul goes to his phylactery, well this is where it gets puzzling. From different accounts, I know that the lich returns by possessing a body, maybe a clone of his former body or some such but there is also some evidence where a lich's undead spirit creates the body. How does this work? Do both methods count or only one does the trick of returning the lich to unlife?
Maybe in the undead spirit creation case, the lich has to expend more magicl energy to recreate his body, whereas possessing one takes minimal effort. What do you think?
You might want to read both Ed's piece on liches in the original (2E) Lords of Darkness accessory if you can get your hands on it, and the more pertinent narrative snapshot of Laeral of Silverymoon (not the Seven Sister) that he provides in his novel "Elminster in Hell". That story gives a great look at how a lich can assume a new form.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2011 : 13:31:33
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Ok which chapter in Elminster in Hell and could you help me with my questions on the lich having two or more phylacteries query?
Thanks! |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2011 : 02:43:37
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| At what level does a wizard learns all the spells there is? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2011 : 03:05:16
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1. The only way I know (in D&D) for a lich to have more than one phylactery is for the lich to cast "Aumvor's fragmented phylactery". Perhaps someone else has additional information, I'm not sure.
2. No wizard "knows all the spells" in D&D. Knowledge of specific spells (or rituals, in 4th edition) requires that the wizard actually obtains and learns each spell.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2011 : 08:32:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
At what level does a wizard learns all the spells there is?
I echo Eltheron's point. Perhaps even Mystra herself does not know all the spells. That's why she encourages wizards to invent more...
THIS is a discussion somewhat related to the answer to your question. You might want to read some interesting points raised by our fellow scribes there. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2011 : 09:05:36
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| But if a rough estimation with the wizard achieving lichdom or immortality to learn the Art, how high would his level be? in that case, considering that he has learn all the magic there is to know |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Topic |
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A need to know(A sort of quest for knowledge)
