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Andr0s
Acolyte

2 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2011 :  03:07:00  Show Profile Send Andr0s a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hey guys just a question regarding a character concept I have and wondering if it fits lorewise into FR (where my campaign is set at)

Basically as the title says I'm planing on making a Sorcerer who was the offspring of a god during the time of troubles

He will just be regular human and it will mostly be flavor stuff (even the character will not be aware of his ancestry) the plan is maybe have it as a possible hook for the party going Epic if and when that faraway time comes.

I have not being able to find much info on gods offsprings when mating with mortals, so my only concern is that it doesn't fits with the settings due to some rule I don't know about in FR, so I ask you!

PD: First time poster though long time lurker

Saer Cormaeril
Learned Scribe

124 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2011 :  04:04:35  Show Profile Send Saer Cormaeril a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sounds like a really cool character concept, Andr0s, and not one that has been expounded upon in the canon Realms, as far as I know. However, the upcoming novel by Paul S. Kemp, Godborn, may. Depending on the edition of DnD you are playing, you could come at this from a number of ways.
In OD&D through 2e, I would work with the DM to give this character a few special abilities, enough to make him *feel* different. In 1e+Unearthed Arcana, I would start by boosting Comeliness, and go from there.
In 3e, I would just give him Divine Rank 0. This would be an effective level adjustment of +4, so you 1st level human 'godborn' sorceror would be on par with a 5th level character. As play progresses, you'll 'feel' the benefits of this bonus less and less. At Epic, this benefit will be more of a convenience thing, so story (working with the DM again) will have to drive this concept.
In 4e, I would request from the DM that you start our "wealthier" than other players. And you take this extra wealth as Divine Boons. Taking the DM and players view, I would also make it hard on this character; cults of your Godfather's enemies will surely be out to get you.

So there's my advice. I'm sure other scribes here will have more to offer!

Good gaming

Brace Cormaeril
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3737 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2011 :  06:05:01  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-As far as I know, there isn't anything that would prevent you from the backstory you're imagining. With the character being a Sorcerer, his innate magical ability could be explained by his bloodline.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2011 :  10:21:29  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Has not been expounded"? What are Seven Sisters, a pinch of dust? Or the Bhaalspawn? Or the Mulhorandi deities...



SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe

Netherlands
423 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2011 :  11:22:51  Show Profile  Visit Tyranthraxus's Homepage Send Tyranthraxus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There is an article in of the Dragons detailing PC bhaalspawn abilities, might be useful for your concept. You may even choose Bhaal as the father of your character since he's known to have mortal children
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4685 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2011 :  11:36:42  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Seven Sisters are not daughters of a deity, they are part of the deity. The plan was to make sure the deity could not be killed.

As to a child of a deity, there appears few comments that apply. Local born half outsider might apply. It clearly is possible that a male deity does not even know has child, a female deity clearly should recall such an event.

As to the rest in many ways it depends on deity, low level vs. high level and of course the nature of the deity.

Higher level deity clearly has the better chance to know had child then low level deity.
An Evil deity, if knowing, might not care about the fact.
A Good deity should likely have greater interest in child.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2011 :  11:45:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

The Seven Sisters are not daughters of a deity, they are part of the deity.


I'm sure that would be news to the avatar of Mystra that gave birth to them.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 May 2011 11:46:14
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4685 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2011 :  13:14:25  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

The Seven Sisters are not daughters of a deity, they are part of the deity.


I'm sure that would be news to the avatar of Mystra that gave birth to them.



*Blink* Last I knew was Sliverhand was a mortal and not an avatar. I certainly could has missed something.
Even if, a child of a avatar is not quite a child of the deity.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Saer Cormaeril
Learned Scribe

124 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2011 :  14:38:19  Show Profile Send Saer Cormaeril a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael

"Has not been expounded"? What are Seven Sisters, a pinch of dust? Or the Bhaalspawn? Or the Mulhorandi deities...






Oh yeah, guess I did know some examples of 'godborn' in the Realms! Thanks, ziReal!

Brace Cormaeril
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2011 :  15:12:10  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dornal, their father, was a mortal, their mother though was basically Mystra since she possessed their mother. So, yea, they could be considered daughters of a deity.

quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

The Seven Sisters are not daughters of a deity, they are part of the deity.


I'm sure that would be news to the avatar of Mystra that gave birth to them.



*Blink* Last I knew was Sliverhand was a mortal and not an avatar. I certainly could has missed something.
Even if, a child of a avatar is not quite a child of the deity.


For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2131 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2011 :  16:01:21  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Andr0s

Hey guys just a question regarding a character concept I have and wondering if it fits lorewise into FR (where my campaign is set at)

Basically as the title says I'm planing on making a Sorcerer who was the offspring of a god during the time of troubles

He will just be regular human and it will mostly be flavor stuff (even the character will not be aware of his ancestry) the plan is maybe have it as a possible hook for the party going Epic if and when that faraway time comes.

I have not being able to find much info on gods offsprings when mating with mortals, so my only concern is that it doesn't fits with the settings due to some rule I don't know about in FR, so I ask you!

PD: First time poster though long time lurker
What edition are you playing. If you are playing 3.5, you might check out the heritage feats in the Player's Handbook II. If you are playing Pathfinder, I suggest checking out the different sorcerer bloodlines and pick out one that matches your concept. With the approval of your DM, you can probably use the Pathfinder sorcerer class in a 3.5 game. If you hit epic levels, you might check out the Demigod in the Epic Destinies in D&D 3.5 article (archived in my Google Docs).

I don't play 4e, and so cannot help you if that is what you are playing. I know that many of the other scribes do though, so maybe one of them can help you.

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Edited by - Hawkins on 24 May 2011 16:09:18
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2011 :  17:01:29  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

The Seven Sisters are not daughters of a deity, they are part of the deity.


I'm sure that would be news to the avatar of Mystra that gave birth to them.



Oh dearie me, it's the Arianic controversy all over again.

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett

Edited by - Kajehase on 24 May 2011 17:02:56
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4598 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2011 :  18:12:30  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

The Seven Sisters are not daughters of a deity, they are part of the deity.
I'm sure that would be news to the avatar of Mystra that gave birth to them.
Oh dearie me, it's the Arianic controversy all over again.
Probably best to steer clear of real world parallels, but yeah, it's basically one of those "child of god" divine mysteries. The mother of the Seven Sisters was a mortal indwelt by Mystra (and thus turned into an avatar while still being mortal), making them basically the daughters of Mystra but also mortal. It's a whole thing.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars"
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Andr0s
Acolyte

2 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2011 :  01:04:32  Show Profile Send Andr0s a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks everyone for the responses! specially for the Epic Destinies resource, that was exactly the sort of thing we wanted, doesn't comes into play until Epic levels, for the first 20 I'll make do with Spell-casting Prodigy as a bonus feat :D

My biggest fear was some obscure rule or somesuch that stated that all godchild have to have special powers or something, as stated we just want the character to be a "regular" Sorcerer for now and then develop in Epics
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3737 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2011 :  05:37:11  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Andr0s

My biggest fear was some obscure rule or somesuch that stated that all godchild have to have special powers or something, as stated we just want the character to be a "regular" Sorcerer for now and then develop in Epics



-Hey, even if there was, the kid was conceived during the Time of Troubles, so those deities were just regular old mortals then, anyway. An out, if you need one.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Saer Cormaeril
Learned Scribe

124 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2011 :  06:18:28  Show Profile Send Saer Cormaeril a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, who is your characters divine matriarch/patriarch?

Brace Cormaeril

Edited by - Saer Cormaeril on 25 May 2011 06:24:12
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Lily M Green
Learned Scribe

Australia
115 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2011 :  20:15:08  Show Profile  Visit Lily M Green's Homepage Send Lily M Green a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael

"Has not been expounded"? What are Seven Sisters, a pinch of dust? Or the Bhaalspawn? Or the Mulhorandi deities...



Any chance you might be so kind as to expand on the offspring of the Mulhorandi deities? Or at the very least point me in the right direction with regards to reading?

Cheers.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3737 Posts

Posted - 26 May 2011 :  13:07:09  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lily M Green

Any chance you might be so kind as to expand on the offspring of the Mulhorandi deities? Or at the very least point me in the right direction with regards to reading?

Cheers.



-As far as I can recall, there aren't specific mentions of individuals being direct offspring of the Mulhorandi deities. But, they spent time in the shell of mortals. Mortals have urges and needs, and, well, maybe they sowed their oats, resulting in bloodlines containing their genes. Personally, though, if such bloodlines existed, I wouldn't really consider them divine in any way, because said deities were technically mortals at the time- just like if someone was sired by a deity during the Time of Troubles.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 26 May 2011 :  13:14:38  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Its always been my 'gut feeling' that folks with some divine blood are somewhat more common in the Realms then in other D&D settings, so IMHO it not only works within the setting, but fits-in with part of it's theme (Portals to everywhere and just about anything possible).

I think Half of D&D's greater cosmology goes 'slumming' in the Realms.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3737 Posts

Posted - 26 May 2011 :  13:31:41  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Its always been my 'gut feeling' that folks with some divine blood are somewhat more common in the Realms then in other D&D settings, so IMHO it not only works within the setting, but fits-in with part of it's theme (Portals to everywhere and just about anything possible).


-The only other D&D setting I'm halfway familiar with (excluding Planescape, but you kind of have to have a plethora of deities and those kinds of things, there) is Dark Sun, and obviously there's not too much divine stuff going on there. The Forgotten Realms are a world where, sometimes very literally, the deities walk the planet, so divine entanglement- however you want to define it, be it kids, plots and rumors, etc.- are gonna be a given.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 27 May 2011 :  13:46:54  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by Lily M Green

Any chance you might be so kind as to expand on the offspring of the Mulhorandi deities? Or at the very least point me in the right direction with regards to reading?

Cheers.



-As far as I can recall, there aren't specific mentions of individuals being direct offspring of the Mulhorandi deities. But, they spent time in the shell of mortals. Mortals have urges and needs, and, well, maybe they sowed their oats, resulting in bloodlines containing their genes. Personally, though, if such bloodlines existed, I wouldn't really consider them divine in any way, because said deities were technically mortals at the time- just like if someone was sired by a deity during the Time of Troubles.



That's exactly what I meant.

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Lily M Green
Learned Scribe

Australia
115 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2011 :  20:07:20  Show Profile  Visit Lily M Green's Homepage Send Lily M Green a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by Lily M Green

Any chance you might be so kind as to expand on the offspring of the Mulhorandi deities? Or at the very least point me in the right direction with regards to reading?

Cheers.



-As far as I can recall, there aren't specific mentions of individuals being direct offspring of the Mulhorandi deities. But, they spent time in the shell of mortals. Mortals have urges and needs, and, well, maybe they sowed their oats, resulting in bloodlines containing their genes. Personally, though, if such bloodlines existed, I wouldn't really consider them divine in any way, because said deities were technically mortals at the time- just like if someone was sired by a deity during the Time of Troubles.



That's exactly what I meant.



Thanks for the info on this.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11696 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2011 :  16:46:31  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Andr0s

Hey guys just a question regarding a character concept I have and wondering if it fits lorewise into FR (where my campaign is set at)

Basically as the title says I'm planing on making a Sorcerer who was the offspring of a god during the time of troubles

He will just be regular human and it will mostly be flavor stuff (even the character will not be aware of his ancestry) the plan is maybe have it as a possible hook for the party going Epic if and when that faraway time comes.

I have not being able to find much info on gods offsprings when mating with mortals, so my only concern is that it doesn't fits with the settings due to some rule I don't know about in FR, so I ask you!

PD: First time poster though long time lurker




Iyachtu Xvim was rumored to be the son of Bane. Granted, he's a lesser deity (or was), but I'm betting when he was younger he was just an above average being. Now, the question is was his mother a mortal or not... and I don't know if that was ever officially answered (although for some reason, I think she was a devil).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2011 :  17:13:04  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Andr0s

Hey guys just a question regarding a character concept I have and wondering if it fits lorewise into FR (where my campaign is set at)

Basically as the title says I'm planing on making a Sorcerer who was the offspring of a god during the time of troubles

He will just be regular human and it will mostly be flavor stuff (even the character will not be aware of his ancestry) the plan is maybe have it as a possible hook for the party going Epic if and when that faraway time comes.

I have not being able to find much info on gods offsprings when mating with mortals, so my only concern is that it doesn't fits with the settings due to some rule I don't know about in FR, so I ask you!

PD: First time poster though long time lurker




Iyachtu Xvim was rumored to be the son of Bane. Granted, he's a lesser deity (or was), but I'm betting when he was younger he was just an above average being. Now, the question is was his mother a mortal or not... and I don't know if that was ever officially answered (although for some reason, I think she was a devil).



It's said that his mom was either a tanar'ri or a corrupted paladin. I think it's possible that both are true... Perhaps Mamma Xvim was a tiefling paladin that Bane took an interest in. He seduced her, and the combo of his divine evilness and her fiendish blood proved overwhelming and transformed her into a tanar'ri.

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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11696 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2011 :  18:55:52  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Andr0s

Hey guys just a question regarding a character concept I have and wondering if it fits lorewise into FR (where my campaign is set at)

Basically as the title says I'm planing on making a Sorcerer who was the offspring of a god during the time of troubles

He will just be regular human and it will mostly be flavor stuff (even the character will not be aware of his ancestry) the plan is maybe have it as a possible hook for the party going Epic if and when that faraway time comes.

I have not being able to find much info on gods offsprings when mating with mortals, so my only concern is that it doesn't fits with the settings due to some rule I don't know about in FR, so I ask you!

PD: First time poster though long time lurker




Iyachtu Xvim was rumored to be the son of Bane. Granted, he's a lesser deity (or was), but I'm betting when he was younger he was just an above average being. Now, the question is was his mother a mortal or not... and I don't know if that was ever officially answered (although for some reason, I think she was a devil).



It's said that his mom was either a tanar'ri or a corrupted paladin. I think it's possible that both are true... Perhaps Mamma Xvim was a tiefling paladin that Bane took an interest in. He seduced her, and the combo of his divine evilness and her fiendish blood proved overwhelming and transformed her into a tanar'ri.




I like that theory, but then I'm usually in favor of things in the realms where if it says 2 seemingly different things are true.... well, then they're both true.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2011 :  11:58:23  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love Wooly's theory...

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Thente Thunderspells
Seeker

USA
65 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2011 :  18:01:41  Show Profile Send Thente Thunderspells a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Andr0s

Hey guys just a question regarding a character concept I have and wondering if it fits lorewise into FR (where my campaign is set at)

Basically as the title says I'm planing on making a Sorcerer who was the offspring of a god during the time of troubles

He will just be regular human and it will mostly be flavor stuff (even the character will not be aware of his ancestry) the plan is maybe have it as a possible hook for the party going Epic if and when that faraway time comes.

I have not being able to find much info on gods offsprings when mating with mortals, so my only concern is that it doesn't fits with the settings due to some rule I don't know about in FR, so I ask you!

PD: First time poster though long time lurker




Iyachtu Xvim was rumored to be the son of Bane. Granted, he's a lesser deity (or was), but I'm betting when he was younger he was just an above average being. Now, the question is was his mother a mortal or not... and I don't know if that was ever officially answered (although for some reason, I think she was a devil).



It's said that his mom was either a tanar'ri or a corrupted paladin. I think it's possible that both are true... Perhaps Mamma Xvim was a tiefling paladin that Bane took an interest in. He seduced her, and the combo of his divine evilness and her fiendish blood proved overwhelming and transformed her into a tanar'ri.



Only to nitpick slightly... but wouldn't the influence of a LE Greater deity corrupting her turn her into a baatezu instead of the chaotic aligned tanar'ri?

Never understood why Bane would mate with a CE outsider anyway, but each to his own I guess!

I like the idea of a god born sorcerer roaming the lands with the hook being delayed really until epic levels... hope you keep him alive until then Andr0s!

The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
- Shakespeare
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2011 :  18:11:46  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thente Thunderspells

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Andr0s

Hey guys just a question regarding a character concept I have and wondering if it fits lorewise into FR (where my campaign is set at)

Basically as the title says I'm planing on making a Sorcerer who was the offspring of a god during the time of troubles

He will just be regular human and it will mostly be flavor stuff (even the character will not be aware of his ancestry) the plan is maybe have it as a possible hook for the party going Epic if and when that faraway time comes.

I have not being able to find much info on gods offsprings when mating with mortals, so my only concern is that it doesn't fits with the settings due to some rule I don't know about in FR, so I ask you!

PD: First time poster though long time lurker




Iyachtu Xvim was rumored to be the son of Bane. Granted, he's a lesser deity (or was), but I'm betting when he was younger he was just an above average being. Now, the question is was his mother a mortal or not... and I don't know if that was ever officially answered (although for some reason, I think she was a devil).



It's said that his mom was either a tanar'ri or a corrupted paladin. I think it's possible that both are true... Perhaps Mamma Xvim was a tiefling paladin that Bane took an interest in. He seduced her, and the combo of his divine evilness and her fiendish blood proved overwhelming and transformed her into a tanar'ri.



Only to nitpick slightly... but wouldn't the influence of a LE Greater deity corrupting her turn her into a baatezu instead of the chaotic aligned tanar'ri?

Never understood why Bane would mate with a CE outsider anyway, but each to his own I guess!



Well, if lady paladin was descended from a tanar'ri, then she'd be more likely to become one of those than a baatezu (yes, I'm one of the small number of people that prefers those terms).

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

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Posted - 08 Jun 2011 :  02:13:51  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

... (yes, I'm one of the small number of people that prefers those terms).

I count myself among such individuals... and I largely make it mandatory for players at my table too.

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