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Cronje
Seeker
56 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Apr 2011 : 17:16:34
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I was browsing the 1st edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Set, and noticed that the events listed on page 38 of the Cyclopedia are not listed in The Grand History. I know other dates in the book are off (notably the years listed for the Obarskyrs on page 34), but do other sources dispute the events in this sourcebook?
For reference, the events all supposedly took place in 1355 DR (given that many websites place the campaign set in 1357 DR) and are all attacks by dragons. They are: Phlan being smashed and abandoned, the Citadel of the Raven having its forces decimated, Zhentil Keep taking damage, Shadowdale and the Elven Woods set ablaze and Sylune dying, Yulash being destroyed, and a huge dragon attacking Hillsfar.
I know The Grand History describes Sylune dying otherwise, but how about the others?
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2011 : 18:07:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Cronje
I was browsing the 1st edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Set, and noticed that the events listed on page 38 of the Cyclopedia are not listed in The Grand History. I know other dates in the book are off (notably the years listed for the Obarskyrs on page 34), but do other sources dispute the events in this sourcebook?
The Obarskyr years are not off, actually; it's just that for the Obarskyrs Cormyrean Reckoning was used, whereas the rest of the set uses Dalereckoning (1CR = 26DR).
Citadel of the Raven, Yūlash, Shadowdale, Zhentil Keep were not particularly contradicted. They were all part of the flight of dragons. BTW, I think these events are set in 1356 DR, rather than 1355 DR ("current date" of the 1E campaign set is end of 1357 DR). THe smashing and abandoning of Phlan may have been shifted around. My guess would be that this "abandoning" was a lead-in to the Ruins of Adventure module, which would have followed from this. However, Pool of Radiance (the novel and the game) were later determined to have been set in 1340 DR, which made the "abandonment" of Phlan in 1356 DR anachronistic.
Also, keep in mind that the entries in that part of the Cyclopedia should not be considered "history" automatically. They were offered as "rumours and news" and may, or may not have happened in fact. Maybe the Phlan rumour was overblown, or distorted (e.g., citizens fled the city when the dragons attacked, but returned as soon as the attack was over). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2011 : 18:08:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Cronje
I was browsing the 1st edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Set, and noticed that the events listed on page 38 of the Cyclopedia are not listed in The Grand History. I know other dates in the book are off (notably the years listed for the Obarskyrs on page 34), but do other sources dispute the events in this sourcebook?
For reference, the events all supposedly took place in 1355 DR (given that many websites place the campaign set in 1357 DR) and are all attacks by dragons. They are: Phlan being smashed and abandoned, the Citadel of the Raven having its forces decimated, Zhentil Keep taking damage, Shadowdale and the Elven Woods set ablaze and Sylune dying, Yulash being destroyed, and a huge dragon attacking Hillsfar.
I know The Grand History describes Sylune dying otherwise, but how about the others?
The dates for the Cormyrean events aren't wrong; it's using a different Reckoning.
I give you Calendar Conversions, lifted from the The Grand History of the Realms Excerpts page on the WotC site:
quote:
Calendar Conversions
One notable feature of the timeline that the expert Faerūnian historian will notice is that we've expressed all the years in the current Dalereckoning (DR) notation. Different cultures in the Realms have used different calendars, and reconciling them has often caused sages much difficulty. See the following notes to convert DR dates to some other calendar.
Dalereckoning (DR): This human-centered calendar has become the standard way of expressing dates. Dalereckoning was established in the Year of Sunrise when men were first permitted by elves to settle in the more open regions of Cormanthor. It is also called Freeman's Reckoning.
Cormyr Reckoning (CR): This calendar starts at the founding of Cormyr by the Obarskyr Dynasty (26 DR). The use of two close but not identical calendars in the same geographic area causes historians and sages much confusion. To convert between dates you might find in other sources: DR - 25 = CR or CR + 25 = DR.
Northreckoning (NR): The calendar used throughout the city of Waterdeep, the Silver Marches, and the North. DR - 1032 = NR or NR + 1032 = DR.
Waterdeep Year (WY): Archaic Waterdeep calendar, no longer used.
Netheril Year (NY): Calendar used by the lost empire of Netheril, stemming from the Alliance of Seventon. DR + 3859 = NY or NY - 3859 = DR.
Shou Calendar: The people of Shou Lung mark the ascendancy of Nung Fu as the start of their empire's calendar. DR + 1250 = Shou Year or Shou Year - 1250 = DR.
Wa Calendar: Calendar used by the island nation of Wa in the Eastern Realms. DR + 418 = Wa Year or Wa Year - 418 = DR.
Mulhorand Calendar (MC): Ancient calendar dating from the founding of Skuld. DR + 2134 = MC or MC - 2134 = DR.
Untheric Calendar (UC): Established after the ascendancy of Gilgeam as god-king of Unther. DR + 735 = UC or UC - 735 = DR.
Aryselmalyr Calendar: Archaic calendar used by the undersea elves of Aryselmalyr at the empire's founding. DR + 11004 = AC or AC - 11004 = DR.
Timesong Calendar (TS): Calendar established at Myth Nantar and used today by most undersea inhabitants of Serōs. DR + 70 = TS or TS - 70 = TS.
Present Reckoning (PR): A newer calendar that dates the Time of Troubles as Year 0. DR - 1358 = PR or PR + 1358 = DR.
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 20:50:03
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| The only thing I noticed that wasn't included with the Grand History of the Realms was the events that took place in 1369 DR with the Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor adventure. Sure, the game was "meh" and I think a lot of people didn't like the novel but it's canon yet wasn't included. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 01:32:52
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GHotR was a great FR sourcebook. If we'd had a chance to work on it for 6 months rather than 4 weeks, it would have been an absolutely superb product. In my view, it should have been a bigger book, had a much longer lead-in time, Brian should have been able to helm a task-group to get in ALL the dates/events out there (and also fill in some still existing cavernous history holes) and we should have been able to write more vignettes to supplement the date/event text. Oh, and some original art would have been the icing on the cake. A product reference for every date would have been the cherry on top of the icing on the cake (my "personal GHotR" is endnoted in this fashion).
Yes, we didn't get to everything, but we got to a darned lot in the end.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 02:31:51
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How do I get one of them annotated ones?  |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 12:25:14
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It is a great book indeed. But maybe, if it detailed everything that was published, it could end too big for publishing. However, I'd buy it, anyway! Congrats for Brian James, Ed Greenwood and everyone that contributed to this awesome work!  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 29 Apr 2011 12:26:23 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 16:36:29
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| -A bunch of Kara-Tur/Utter East things were left out, but it's understandable, with the crappy state that Kara-Tur/The Utter East was in to begin with, in terms of both information and access to said information, it's understandable (and, in some cases, beneficial, maybe, even). |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 15:45:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
How do I get one of them annotated ones?
It's real easy. You grab the 2E FR Boxed Set and open to the timeline. You then open an MS Word doc on your hard drive and copy all of the timeline entries and then endnote the page references. You then proceed, over the next 15 or so years to do the same to every single FR product you can get your hands on including Dragon magazines and Polyhedron. In fact, you become an RPGA member simply to get the Polyhedron magazine for the FR lore it contains. You also start putting together timelines yourself and filling in gaps in the official lore that complements what we already know.
You end up with a 1.48 MB MS Word doc with 132 pages of 10 type timeline entries and 60 pages of endnotes. You wish that you had the time to add in all the new dates that are in the published GHotR. You also hope one day that you'll even finish it.
As I said, easy.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 16:34:23
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
How do I get one of them annotated ones?
It's real easy. You grab the 2E FR Boxed Set and open to the timeline. You then open an MS Word doc on your hard drive and copy all of the timeline entries and then endnote the page references. You then proceed, over the next 15 or so years to do the same to every single FR product you can get your hands on including Dragon magazines and Polyhedron. In fact, you become an RPGA member simply to get the Polyhedron magazine for the FR lore it contains. You also start putting together timelines yourself and filling in gaps in the official lore that complements what we already know.
You end up with a 1.48 MB MS Word doc with 132 pages of 10 type timeline entries and 60 pages of endnotes. You wish that you had the time to add in all the new dates that are in the published GHotR. You also hope one day that you'll even finish it.
As I said, easy.
-- George Krashos
It would prolly be easier to start with the last published version of the original pdf timeline, note the sources referenced on it, get the pdf of the printed version (sadly, neither pdf is legally available anywhere, anymore), combine the two, and then see what sources were left off. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 22:07:17
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| I'll be honest, Wooly's way sounds better. |
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Events in FR campaign set not in Grand History
