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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Feb 2011 : 04:03:03
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Humor has always been an integral part of Realms fiction. Even in predominantly gloomy trilogies like The Twilight War and The Haunted Lands, we see a sprinkle of humor here and there. However, such funny scenes are always sporadic and often too few. Why not have a Realms series focusing on the funny aspects of adventure or misadventure?
I would further suggest that the series be anthologies of short stories or novellas. Novels are good. But they might be too much of a challenge for the creative team of the WotC’s fiction department. I’m not saying it’s impossible. However, having short stories is the shorter and easier route. Also, I’d like to see new and veteran writers alike in these anthologies.
Do you think this feasible? Will this appeal to FR fans? If so, what sort of stories do you wish to read about in the anthologies?
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 07 Feb 2011 09:57:18
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2011 : 06:55:16
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| A few Dragonlance books were collections of lighthearted and humourous tales. I can't recall anything similar set in the Realms. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2011 : 07:00:37
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I'd not buy any book with the titles you used. Silly does not necessarily equal funny.
However, if you want Realms-novels that are funny you should try out Rosemary Jones, she's right up there with Terry Pratchett in causing snickers, giggles, and outright laughing whilst reading as far as I'm concerned. (And the Carvers' home is on my top-5 list of fictional places I'd like to live in for what it's worth.) |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2011 : 07:26:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
I'd not buy any book with the titles you used. Silly does not necessarily equal funny.
What silly titles?
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
However, if you want Realms-novels that are funny you should try out Rosemary Jones, she's right up there with Terry Pratchett in causing snickers, giggles, and outright laughing whilst reading as far as I'm concerned. (And the Carvers' home is on my top-5 list of fictional places I'd like to live in for what it's worth.)
I read the first two chapters of her City of the Dead. I was totally bored. Dropped it and left it somewhere I could not even remember nor bother remembering.
I did not read Crypt of the Moaning Diamond. Nothing in the entire Dungeons series. There's nothing for me in there. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Synthalus
Learned Scribe
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2011 : 11:44:58
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| They should put out a FR Bloopers novel. It would be very original and i'd love to read some of the bloopers from Elimnster in Hell! |
"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die."
— H.P. Lovecraft (The Call of Cthulhu and Other Weird Stories) |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2011 : 11:56:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Synthalus
They should put out a FR Bloopers novel. It would be very original and i'd love to read some of the bloopers from Elimnster in Hell!
Probably a few Knights of Myth Drannor blooper stories that could be included as well. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2011 : 13:27:59
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Bloopers? For a change, I'd want to see those by some evil entities like the phaerimm, beholders, and illithids. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2011 : 13:31:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Bloopers? For a change, I'd want to see those by some evil entities like the phaerimm, beholders, and illithids.
If you put one of each in the same room, you just might get that.  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2011 : 13:37:50
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The phaerimm could very well control the two other races, as seen in RotA. It'd be interesting if the illithids, by some luck or incredible aid, manage to enthrall the phaerimm. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2011 : 11:55:46
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| A throwdown between an illithid and a phaerimm ... could go either way, I think, though the phaerimm has better odds of possessing more HD/levels. 10-on-10 or 100-on-100 is pure illithid win, though. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2011 : 16:50:06
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Comedy is very difficult to write in any genre, 10 times so in fantasy (which is traditionally a pretty serious struggle between good and evil, which are generally not funny topics). Look at the number of fantasy authors who succeed with works that are at least 50% comedy (I can name two off the top of my head: Terry Pratchett, Piers Anthony, and Rosemary Jones--RJ at least you would debate) as opposed to the comparatively huge number of fantasy authors who succeed with the more traditional/serious fantasy (albeit with the occasional comic relief).
IMO, the primary difficulty lies in that comedy is WAY more subjective (in terms of quality and appeal) than action/drama. I think it's easier to turn off readers with jokes that might be funny to you, but not to that particular reader. I personally find Rosemary's work hilarious (I consider it something of a gold standard of witty Realms humor), but you call it boring. To me, that's the perfect illustration of the problems of comedy in the Realms right there.
Stand-up is much easier than written comedy. You get the chance to read the crowd, and if a set of jokes isn't working, you take a different tact. Even when they do sit-coms and whatnot, they usually have a live audience that they use to determine when a joke is funny. If they’re doing the show and everyone laughs at something they thought would be funny, great. If you get crickets, then--I kid you not--a team of writers filters out from behind the stage, huddles, and comes up with some new material that they try instead.
In a book, however, often your only audience is your editor and a few test readers. And then it's published and it's either hilariously funny or it's not.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2011 : 17:11:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Comedy is very difficult to write in any genre, 10 times so in fantasy (which is traditionally a pretty serious struggle between good and evil, which are generally not funny topics)...
A little off topic, but Erik, I would like your opinion. How about horror in fantasy. And I don't mean Ravenloft horror, I mean like Stephen King. Do you think there's a place for it, maybe not now but in the future, in the realms? How difficult would it be to pull off (since evil creatures are the norm in such a world)? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2011 : 19:10:25
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Once Around The Realms was precisely what you are asking for, and it is still met with much derision (and disagreements as to it's 'canoness').
I have never read any of the Double Diamond books, but from what I gather, they were written with more of a 'pulpy' feel (with the tongue-in-cheek moments such works are known for).
My favorite series with 'light' moments was The Finder's Stone trilogy. Not really known for its humor, but it's definitely in there (c'mon... any series with Giogi is bound to have light moments). Olive Ruskettle is also great for comic relief.
I'd say scenes (from any novel) with Danilo are usually also humorous (he and Giogi should get together for a 'comedy of errors'), as are much of the stuff featuring the Knights of Myth Drannor (the guys, anyway).
'Pure comedy' (like Once Around the Realms) just doesn't seem to work for the Forgotten Realms. That sort of silliness is best left back in Greyhawk. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2011 : 21:44:21
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Hrm…I would like a short story about spell-caused practical jokes that War Wizards have played on each other and the jokes they tell each other. So…how about a story that starts early in the Brotherhood’s history, but that also shows how practical joke spells eventually turn into battle spells?
Scene 1: War Wizard A creates a spellbook spell trap: it zaps War Wizard B, because B has been known to poke around in A’s spellbooks when A isn’t around. So B gets a tiny little lightning bolt right up the nose for his trouble. That wee bolt is powered by static electricity in the air; as the spellbook is opened, a charge builds that the spell “grabs” and directs at whomever opened the book. B resolves to hide A’s spellbook, but is forever afflicted with a twitchy eye.
Scene2: Fast forward a few centuries: an enterprising young wizard gets a miniature lightning bolt up the nose when he discovers a musty old spellbook in the dregs of the War Wizard library in Suzail. This causes him to fall right over, which disturbs more books, kicks up more dust and results in the mage having his already pained sinuses erupt in agony; his sneezing fit is the stuff of legend.
This unfortunate War Wizard—after recovering— figures out the spell trap and thinks it could be improved. He modifies the spell so every time you touch something in on or in a given area—say the items on a table or all the books on a wall—you get a good zap. What the caster doesn’t realize is the reflexive “pull your hand back, shake it in pain” motion caused by the spell ends up creating a new charge on the person who got zapped: the spell continues to gather the latent static charge in the air as the target moves around until the charge is spent. If the target touches an object, the charge is spent. But if the target touches someone else, they carry the charge building potential with them.
We’ll leave it up to the author to reveal this in some sort of funny way…maybe the War Wizard casts it on a table in an unused room of the Royal Court, thinking to lure his rivals there. However some stuffy courtiers utilize the room and all end up fleeing the place, shocking themselves senseless as they brush suits of armor or touch the guards who’ve come to see what’s the matter after the courtiers ran screaming down the hallways for help, building up a considerable charge in the process.
Scene 3: Fast forward three or more centuries: Two War Wizards sit patiently on horseback, trading barbs involving each other’s looks, eating habits, lack of personal hygiene and supposed constant need to make water like a very old person. In the distance a hoard of rampaging orcs are visible. A rush of wind off the mountain peaks behind the orcs heralds their arrival. It also carries their rank smell to the small host of mounted Purple Dragons who’ve formed a defensive ring in front of the mages. The soldier’s noses wrinkle at the stench but the two wizards smile: each knows the wind holds a small charge of static electricity that can be used to devastating effect.
The wizards trade more barbs, the first wizard reminding the second that it’s considered a breach of etiquette to break wind while in the saddle. The second wizard politely states to the first that just because his comrade shares his meals with his horse, this is no reason to behave like one by voiding one’s bowels whenever one feels like it. Then the two War Wizards cast in unison, producing an unseen field of energy that settles in the undulating, knee-high grass covering the side of the last rise the orcs will crest before they come crashing down to where the relatively small line of mounted purple dragons stands.
A wild-eyed, slobbering orc tops the hill, a ragged battle standard with the tribe’s symbol on it tied to his back. The orc points its jagged axe head down at the Cormyreans. At its feet, tiny sparks ride back and forth amongst the grass as the wind blows over it and a charge begins to build. The orc bellows a challenge in his harsh language and rushes down the hill. Sparks shoot from the grass into its legs. Those behind the first orc suffer visible arcs of lightening as they run down the hill. As the remaining host comes running over and down the grassy hill they’re fried by electricity: the more orcs there are, the more powerful the electric field gets as the rush of their moving bodies (many running, many tumbling head over heels down the hill; all thrashing) excites the air, causesing more static which the field spell continually amplifies to terrible effect, creating arcs of lightening as big as any bolt from the sky that blast as much as twenty orcs at a time.
The two War Wizards smile grimly, then the second wizard says to the first, “I’ll not be having orc stew, no matter how well the meat is cooked. Better you share it with your horse.”
The first wizard replies, “Ironic, isn’t it?”
“How do you mean?” says the second.
“Eh? How did you get into the Brotherhood if you can’t even speak Orcish?”
“What’s the point of a second language when I already speak common so well? Pray tell, what’s so ironic”
“That orc. His battle standard translates roughly to ‘Soon To Be Dead’”
The wizard’s banter continues as the mounted purple dragons form a line and lower their lances. Cries of “For Cormyr!” ring out as the few orcs to survive the electric field are ridden down by lance and sword. |
Edited by - Mr_Miscellany on 07 Feb 2011 21:51:41 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 01:25:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Comedy is very difficult to write in any genre, 10 times so in fantasy (which is traditionally a pretty serious struggle between good and evil, which are generally not funny topics).
Then no hope for this kind of anthology in FR? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 02:46:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Comedy is very difficult to write in any genre, 10 times so in fantasy (which is traditionally a pretty serious struggle between good and evil, which are generally not funny topics)...
A little off topic, but Erik, I would like your opinion. How about horror in fantasy. And I don't mean Ravenloft horror, I mean like Stephen King. Do you think there's a place for it, maybe not now but in the future, in the realms? How difficult would it be to pull off (since evil creatures are the norm in such a world)?
Sometimes it seems like the general fantasy genre could stand to learn a few things from horror or suspense writing.
To me it seems that the more vested a reader is in a character or set of characters, you should be able to throw more awful no-win situations at them and have the reader feel some ghost of anxiety for that character. The other thing is that horror is predicated on the change that the characters go through as they move from bad situation from bad situation with no escape in sight.
Sometimes it feels that fantasy tends to think of characters as players within a situation. They see the beginnings of a solution to that situation very early on and thus hope never truly gets lost the way it might occur in a horror novel where anxious uncertainty is prevalent. |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 03:04:05
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| I disagree that comedy is difficult to pull off. As Erik pointed out, Piers Anthony is quite adept at it, and he forgot Robert Aspirin's Mythadventures series and Phule's World. Ed himself seems to have a penchant for humor, as Elminster's personality shows. And let's not forget Danilo!! I think a book of humorous Realms tales would be great. Maybe we could see Drizzt's lighter side for once, or some of the blunders of the Zhents or Shar's idea of a joke. The possibilities are endless! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 04:00:03
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Maybe the difficulty lies in the current roster of FR writers, as very few have leaning towards humor. Well, if that means hiring new writers, why not?!
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 08 Feb 2011 04:49:13 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 04:29:07
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As for horror and fantasy, I would highly recommend The Throne of Bones by Brian McNaughton, which blends the two genres beautifully (without stooping to any 'Cthulhu by Gaslight' tropes). Not Gothic Horror - REAL high-fantasy horror, which is hard to come by.
And its GRIM... you have been warned. 
I've still (sadly) yet to read any Pratchet. I O.D.-ed on comedy/fantasy with the Xanth series, which I loved very much back in the day (much to my poor GH players chagrin). I still throw a bad pun in once in awhile, for old time sake, but I try to not let my FR games be reduced to groaning sessions.
Someday I may punish you all with revelations about some of my more comical monsters, like the Rukus, Foo Bird, Living Canon (affectionately called the 'poo-shooter'), and Cerebral Hemorrhoid. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 04:49:34
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Some readers might it vastly entertaining to see 'light' humorous scenes that involve those who appear unlikely to be involved, the grim long-standing evil characters whose humor often includes bloodshed. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 16:28:16
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AI, I wasn't forgetting or glossing over the fact that many writers are very adept at comedy. I'm just saying that the vast majority of successful fantasy novels are at least mostly action/drama, with a *little bit* of comedy thrown in. Ed's books are hilarious, but even they aren't all funny, all the time. An entirely slapstick/banter/comedic tale just doesn't fit the genre very well, and it's considerably more subjective (i.e. more people will dislike it than something more straight).
That said, there are all sorts of pieces in the Realms that are dominantly or even entirely comedy, particularly in the various anthologies. Heck, even *I* did it with my Realms of the Dead story, and that was really fun to write. I'm just concerned that trying to maintain that level of humor over the course of an entire novel will fall flat.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Maybe the difficulty lies in the current roster of FR writers, as very few have leaning towards humor. Well, if that means hiring new writers, why not?!
I think my participation in a scroll has gone too far when a suggestion like "let's throw out all the current writers and go for something new" comes up.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 16:37:52
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I love comedy and lighthearted entertainment. A few more ridiculous tales set in the Realms would always be welcome. Especially if they involve low-level bumbling and puns.
As long as it doesn't turn D&D into a bunch of pointless yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk slapstick. I'm confident that the roster of FR authors (at least those I've read) are capable of writing humourous and sophisticated tales. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 17:04:11
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| Erik, I don't think he was saying that we should throw out current writers, but it never hurts to bring in fresh blood. That said, I think the consensus here is that a lot of us would like to see an ANTHOLOGY of Realms humor, not neccessarily an entire novel. Although for my part, I'd love to see a novel that detials some of Danilo's early escapades (BEFORE Arilyn) to see how he became such a loveable rogue. I'd be willing to bet that such a book would be chock-full of humor almost by neccessity. It's part of the character. In fact, there are quite a few characters who are almost always funny, and some of them could easily carry a novel by themselves. The Bouldershoulder brothers come to mind, along with the dou of Jarlaxle and Athrogate, Elmisnter is often quite funny and witty, Olive Ruskettle has been mentioned- there are so many characters who could carry a humorous tale as easily as a more serious one. I think it's just a matter of how it's handled. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 17:13:12
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To address Alisttair and Lady Fellshot and others:
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
A little off topic, but Erik, I would like your opinion. How about horror in fantasy. And I don't mean Ravenloft horror, I mean like Stephen King. Do you think there's a place for it, maybe not now but in the future, in the realms? How difficult would it be to pull off (since evil creatures are the norm in such a world)?
Well, as my own work probably indicates (my first novel having been a FR western and my second a FR horror/thriller), I personally think the Realms is and always has been ripe for quite a bit of genre bending. Fantasy horror abounds in J.P. Davis's FR work (see Circle of Skulls for an example) and Richard Lee Byers was a horror author before he started writing in the Realms, so it's not really a surprise that his work has some of that as well (see the Haunted Lands trilogy).
There's a genre difference between horror and fantasy, however, that you have to deal with one way or another if you're going to cross genres. Fantasy is about the struggle of good and evil, in which good inevitably triumphs (see Tolkien's eucatastrophe), or as Bob Salvatore puts it: "Fantasy = good wins." Horror, on the other hand, is generally about the triumph of evil.
Fantasy also, generally speaking, has a morality that is reducible to white and black. Good guys are good, bad guys are bad. There might be some gray people who walk the line between the two, but ultimately, they pick a side (or die). In horror, on the other hand, the only thing that's morally clear is usually the adversary (and even then, its evil is often founded in trauma or some sort of warping)--the characters are, by and large, all morally gray.
So when writing fantasy and horror in one novel, you have a fundamental disconnect in terms of what your story is about plus a nebulous moral structure, making it hard to strike a balance between the two conflicting demands.
I do think effective horror/fantasy can and has been done (and thanks for the recommendation, MT!)--it can just be a tough road to walk.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 08 Feb 2011 17:16:10 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 17:19:30
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They are constantly adding new authors to their roster, so I don't understand the suggestion myself.
I'm not sure how that works; if they seek these authors out, or that they approach WotC, but either way FR is obviously considered a 'serious' setting, because either they do not seek out authors who lean toward humor, or authors who have a penchant for comedy do not approach them. The setting simply does not lend itself to humor, outside of the dripping sarcasm so many major characters seem to demonstrate (like Elminster and Khelben).
The Realms are not Discworld, and each has its own flavor. I don't think I would appreciate funny novels set in the Forgotten Realms. One of my biggest problems with Dragonlance was the silliness of the tinker gnomes (which also turned me off to Spelljammer). A setting will attract the kind of authors appropriate to its flavor.
Once again, I cite Once Around the Realms as a precedent of how wretched they could be.
A Khan Artist? Seriously? Please... no more like that...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Nov 2011 18:40:28 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 17:56:43
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| Well, considering that that story was about Volo, I think we got off easy.... BTW, MT, don't you mean "Once More Around the Realms"? And it really wasn't THAT bad- I was at least somewhat amused. Might have been better if it had not been in Skullport though. That is one place that does not lend itself well to humorous tales. Which brings me to another point- I think it as much an issue with the place in the story as with the characters in terms of whether humor works in the Realms. Ovbiously, certain places would not work as well for that genre. For instance, I wouldn't think of Thay as a place for a funny story, but Longsaddle certainly would fit! You could probably do an entire series on the Harpels!!! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 20:45:14
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Khan Artist? Seriously? I need to read more Realmsfic.
Though Volo (and Volo) are both detestable characters in my mind, their predictably Gilligan-like antics just don't amuse me.
I initially disliked the Harpells, but hey, they kinda grow on you. Danilo's portrayal is awesome. Elminster and even Khelben sometimes snipe in some decent remarks, they're apparently unable to resist getting in the last word (even if it's just a meaningful glare or a noticeably thoughtful puff on the pipe). Even Drizzt has made me snicker. And there's always King Pinch, the title says it all. The Bouldershoulders were good too, though edging toward the unacceptable side of ridiculous.
I don't like halflings, nor the assumption that they're always snarky little comedy props. None can be as amusing as that annoying vermin, Tasslehoff Burrfoot. (While mentioning Dragonlance: Caramon was funny at times, just by being a BigDumb, even when not saying much.) |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 08 Feb 2011 20:47:32 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2011 : 04:00:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Maybe the difficulty lies in the current roster of FR writers, as very few have leaning towards humor. Well, if that means hiring new writers, why not?!
I think my participation in a scroll has gone too far when a suggestion like "let's throw out all the current writers and go for something new" comes up.
Cheers
I didn't mean it like that. Hiring new writers does not necessarily mean throwing out the veterans. The latter can be left alone in what they do best [PSK, for instance, should stick to dark fantasy; he always shines in that type of fantasy, (though betimes he also offers humor in his books); and RAS, as I assume most would agree, must stick to Drizzt], while the former can create new avenues of fun in the Realms, like a series of humorous stories. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2011 : 04:07:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Well, considering that that story was about Volo, I think we got off easy.... BTW, MT, don't you mean "Once More Around the Realms"? And it really wasn't THAT bad- I was at least somewhat amused. Might have been better if it had not been in Skullport though. That is one place that does not lend itself well to humorous tales. Which brings me to another point- I think it as much an issue with the place in the story as with the characters in terms of whether humor works in the Realms. Ovbiously, certain places would not work as well for that genre. For instance, I wouldn't think of Thay as a place for a funny story, but Longsaddle certainly would fit! You could probably do an entire series on the Harpels!!!
I agree on Longsaddle and the Harpels!  |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2011 : 05:23:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
There's a genre difference between horror and fantasy, however, that you have to deal with one way or another if you're going to cross genres. Fantasy is about the struggle of good and evil, in which good inevitably triumphs (see Tolkien's eucatastrophe), or as Bob Salvatore puts it: "Fantasy = good wins." Horror, on the other hand, is generally about the triumph of evil.
I think that's over simplifying a great deal. Horror as a genre isn't about winning once and for all. It's about not losing this round and hoping that whoever you pass the torch to doesn't lose the next one. Fantasy seems to like to deal with certainties. Horror really doesn't.
quote:
Fantasy also, generally speaking, has a morality that is reducible to white and black. Good guys are good, bad guys are bad. There might be some gray people who walk the line between the two, but ultimately, they pick a side (or die). In horror, on the other hand, the only thing that's morally clear is usually the adversary (and even then, its evil is often founded in trauma or some sort of warping)--the characters are, by and large, all morally gray.
Well, for fantasy I suppose it depends on if your Evil Overlord has a reason to be evil. Not that an underlying emotional motive will make them a better character or anything.
I would posit that good wins in horror at a terrible cost to the "good guys" and that it permanently scars them in some way (madness, physical disfigurement, lifelong aversion to calamari, fear of cuttlefish... whatever). Sometimes fantasy seems to forget this in its attempt to simplify things down to stark black and white.
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So when writing fantasy and horror in one novel, you have a fundamental disconnect in terms of what your story is about plus a nebulous moral structure, making it hard to strike a balance between the two conflicting demands.
*in best disingenuous voice* Did you know that one of the things that horror is really awesome at is making a mundane setting eerie? I can't imagine how that could be worked into fantasy.
In all seriousness though, I think that in some ways you are making too much of the narrative trappings of horror, when it seems easy enough to transplant the stylistic aspects of the genre in the same manner that one would insert little bits of humor into one's story. |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2011 : 15:27:20
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Well put, Lady FS. I didn't want to delve into specifics because it's really off-topic in the thread (as Alisttair noted in the original question posed to me). Your questions and observations are all worthy of discussion.
For the record, I think (and my post does mention this, I'm pretty sure) that a great many of general fantasy and/or Realms novels DO wear some of the trappings of horror fiction, some quite effectively.
My main point is that it just wouldn't make sense to insist upon that as a guideline for ALL novels in a given line: as Dennis points out, authors will be drawn to write what they're good at writing, and trying to force them to write horror or comedy or anything else for that matter is counter productive to producing good stuff.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Grand Comedy of the Realms
