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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 07:37:46
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Ahhh what a great book. Salvatore's best since Road of the Patriarch IMO.
Everything was put on the table for a fitting end to Bruenor and Pwent, and it was heart Breaking. Watching the augmented Bruenor battling a duke of the nine hells was amazing, as was Pwent arriving in time to die in that last great battle for a great cause with his king.
Jarlaxle's and Drizzt interactions of course, caught my eye. Poor Drizzt is now along the lines thinking everyone who knew him 100 years ago is dead. Their scenes were powerful and moving. Jarlaxle's and Athrogate's characters showing genuine care for each other was also moving. One does not often see such a show of emotion from either.
In all, I can't wait for book 2 of this series. |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2011 : 05:10:30
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What I found most striking about this book (and its immediate predecessor) is how sharply the "current" is becoming the "past." Wulfgar was somewhat written out of the series a while ago, but you now have all of the "Companions of the Hall" gone except Drizzt. It was, indeed, some of Bob's best writing, but I truly wonder if he's tiring of his characters - as some authors are wont to do after so many novels - or if editors are demanding that authors 'move on' to the new 4E world? The fact that this book is a launch point for the Neverwinter online game (in some fashion) makes me think that may be true on some levels. Bob & Ed (and Elaine) have provided the Realms with so many rich and wonderous characters, it's a little bit hard to say goodbye to them.
It will be interesting to see what changes come to Menzoberranzan in his forthcoming novels should he include it amongst their topics. I would be hard pressed to answer whether Ed or Bob writes the "best" Alustriel, though. I know they both talk, so I'll just say she's a great collaboration between them. 
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 01:52:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
What I found most striking about this book (and its immediate predecessor) is how sharply the "current" is becoming the "past." Wulfgar was somewhat written out of the series a while ago, but you now have all of the "Companions of the Hall" gone except Drizzt. It was, indeed, some of Bob's best writing, but I truly wonder if he's tiring of his characters - as some authors are wont to do after so many novels - or if editors are demanding that authors 'move on' to the new 4E world? The fact that this book is a launch point for the Neverwinter online game (in some fashion) makes me think that may be true on some levels. Bob & Ed (and Elaine) have provided the Realms with so many rich and wonderous characters, it's a little bit hard to say goodbye to them.
It will be interesting to see what changes come to Menzoberranzan in his forthcoming novels should he include it amongst their topics. I would be hard pressed to answer whether Ed or Bob writes the "best" Alustriel, though. I know they both talk, so I'll just say she's a great collaboration between them.
WOTC have demanded that all authors write only 4e stuff, for the record. Everyone had to jump 100 years into the future, which made keeping human characters and older Elf/Dwarf Characters problematic.
Tis been that way for awhile now. |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 02:18:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
WOTC have demanded that all authors write only 4e stuff, for the record. Everyone had to jump 100 years into the future, which made keeping human characters and older Elf/Dwarf Characters problematic.
Tis been that way for awhile now.
I understand, and Bob's been good about at least spending some time on the intervening years in some chapters. The perils of changing a world into something unrecognized by many of its fans is something WoTC is now facing.
I once had someone tell me a joke and the punchline left me gasping for air! Of course, it was told by Istishia...
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
Edited by - Azuth on 19 Mar 2011 02:18:43 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 04:18:35
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I just recently finished this book, and Aside from the character of Dahlia, I liked it. I honestly had little to like about her- her obvious ploys of using her "charms" (obviously not intellectual or personality charms) to impress/intimidate/distract opponents and enemies or anyone else was just annoying. I know plenty of females who do this, and it just makes me want to strangle them. Her treatment of most males (and even females) was just nauseating. I actually liked the vampire better, and even felt sorry for him on occasion. He should had flew Gauntlegrym before Sylora tried to wake up the primordial again.
Drizzt is starting to scare me here. When even Jarlaxle has to practically slap some sense into him, you know there's a problem. Not only is he hiding from his pain, but he's turning into the very thing he always professed to hate. Time away from Menzo has made him forget just how bad it was there. Maybe a visit to the old home would jog his memory. Jarlaxle seems to have a better head on his shoulders these days than old Drizzy.
I WAS glad to see Bruenor and Pwent go down fighting, just as they both always hoped to do. Finding Bruenor in that vale seemed odd, but no more so than Wulfgar being there. go figure. An afterlife for the Companions as agroup. Nice touch. Not sure if it's appropriate, though. I almost wanted to smack Drizzt for missing that little piece of scrimshaw when he was visiting the supposed site of the place toward the beginning, though! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 15:35:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I just recently finished this book, and Aside from the character of Dahlia, I liked it. I honestly had little to like about her- her obvious ploys of using her "charms" (obviously not intellectual or personality charms) to impress/intimidate/distract opponents and enemies or anyone else was just annoying. I know plenty of females who do this, and it just makes me want to strangle them. Her treatment of most males (and even females) was just nauseating. I actually liked the vampire better, and even felt sorry for him on occasion. He should had flew Gauntlegrym before Sylora tried to wake up the primordial again.
Drizzt is starting to scare me here. When even Jarlaxle has to practically slap some sense into him, you know there's a problem. Not only is he hiding from his pain, but he's turning into the very thing he always professed to hate. Time away from Menzo has made him forget just how bad it was there. Maybe a visit to the old home would jog his memory. Jarlaxle seems to have a better head on his shoulders these days than old Drizzy.
I WAS glad to see Bruenor and Pwent go down fighting, just as they both always hoped to do. Finding Bruenor in that vale seemed odd, but no more so than Wulfgar being there. go figure. An afterlife for the Companions as agroup. Nice touch. Not sure if it's appropriate, though. I almost wanted to smack Drizzt for missing that little piece of scrimshaw when he was visiting the supposed site of the place toward the beginning, though!
Well, Zaknafein died so Drizzt would not become like him and Drizzt is becoming exactly that. A self hating guy who falls into fighting and killing to placate and satisfy his rage.
Jarlaxle knows this, and was purported to be Zak's friend before he betrayed him, so it is not terribly surprising to see him angered by this.
Another thing to note is that Drizzt has become more chaotic good than Lawful good. One could point to the drow bloodline of Wendonai causing this now that all drow left are supposedly tainted(And those without the taint turned into dark elves) |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 15:55:09
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| There's only a side reference to Jarlaxle betraying Zak, there aren't any specifics for the event in question, if they remained friends afterwards or if only Jarlaxle felt that it was betrayal at all (I think the original reference was in Road of the Patriarch). Although... feeling guilty about it does seem to act as a motivator for Jarlaxle at times. |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 17:51:19
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| I've noticed that as well. Also, I would add that I thought dahlia's backstory, while slightly disturbing and her character was unlikable, was in fact very relevant to the overall story, due to her hatred for the Shadowvar and Alegni in particular. I did have to wonder why he singled out a 12-year-old girl to carry his child, though. Since his men had already defiled most of the other women old or young enough, why didn't he just keep one of them for himself before they did? Instead he used a girl who was only marginally even old enough (by human standards, which don't even apply to elves!) to be capable of it! Made no sense to me. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 18:47:32
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Meh, I didn't see how Alegni was relavent to the story either except as a side note. My impression was that he and little Miss Serial Killer's past could have been left for the next book and it would not have had any effect on the final outcome.
As far as I could tell the story encompassed by this book was Sylora versus Jarlaxle. Everyone else seemed like minions. |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 19:28:54
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Well, the people primarily moving the story were Sylora and Jarlaxle with secondaries from Bruenor, Athrogate and Dor'crae. I'm actually kind of surprised that more Drizzt fans aren't feeling grumpy that the supposed star of the book series didn't do anything plot worthy by himself. I'd be annoyed if a title character's sole function through a story was as a meatshield, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case these days, particularly in really long book series. It's too bad, because I really enjoyed the Jarlaxle/Bruenor team up.
The presence of the Shadovar didn't seem like anything other than set up that did not come into play for this book aside from a few boundary squabbles and thin motivation for a creature that could have been replaced with a golem. Ergo it could have been saved for installment two, when it might actually be important to know about them as something other than window dressing. The Shadovar group didn't seem to have an impact on Sylora's plans except to have her send out regular patrols to keep them out of her hair. |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 21:01:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Fellshot
Well, the people primarily moving the story were Sylora and Jarlaxle with secondaries from Bruenor, Athrogate and Dor'crae. I'm actually kind of surprised that more Drizzt fans aren't feeling grumpy that the supposed star of the book series didn't do anything plot worthy by himself. I'd be annoyed if a title character's sole function through a story was as a meatshield, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case these days, particularly in really long book series. It's too bad, because I really enjoyed the Jarlaxle/Bruenor team up.
The presence of the Shadovar didn't seem like anything other than set up that did not come into play for this book aside from a few boundary squabbles and thin motivation for a creature that could have been replaced with a golem. Ergo it could have been saved for installment two, when it might actually be important to know about them as something other than window dressing. The Shadovar group didn't seem to have an impact on Sylora's plans except to have her send out regular patrols to keep them out of her hair.
Ummmm. The entire thing accomplished several important things which will be crucial to the next book.
#1 Introduced both sides. The next book, neverwinter wood, will probably be highly focused on these two factions.
#2 Drizzt and Dahlia have met, shared an adventure, and spared us him just randomly meeting her. Drizzt's only incentive to stay near neverwinter was Bruenor's search. With Bruenor dead, he now would have none if not for meeting her. It also gave her some backstory, explaining why she will be at the Shadovar's throats next book.
#3 Artemis now knows Drizzt is alive.
As for Drizzt, I think several people are happy with his role in the book. The new Drizzt is more interesting. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 21:05:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Yeah, I knew that. How did Jarlaxle betray Zak? I've never seen that anywhere, or I missed it somehow. But Drizzt was never LG to begin with, he's ALWAYS been CG. But now he almost looks more CN than anything. I liked the book, but I'm a little annoyed by all the Thay stuff. I've never cared much for Thay even before Tam turned it into his own private wasteland.
Errr, Drizzt's character by all DnD standards I see was certainly lawful good.
Not sure why you would not like Thay. I always loved that setting. Thay was such a military powerhouse that could have taken over anyone short of Haluraa if they were organized and not squabbling all the time. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 21:40:53
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No, he's not. In all editions, his stats have clearly listed him as CG, not LG. He may come off that way on occasion in some of the books (certainly not all of them) but he is not Lawful. He has several times chosen to interfere in situations where law would dictate he should not. Other times, he chooses not to, when a strictly lawful code might make that warranted.
Why I don't like Thay- well, it's really more a matter of personal preference. As much as I like magic, I do NOT like big empires of wizard-despots and tyrants. I can think of better uses for magic-heavy kingdom than as a slave-driven magocracy with elitist and immoral views. And the "new" Thay is even worse, IMO. Now the zulkir dynamic that made it "mildly" interesting is gone, replaced with a single ruler who has basically turned the place into a mostly empty, dead land, with no opposition, and most of his populace reduced to mindless undead minions. WAY TO RUIN A COUNTRY, Szaz Tam!!! (Did I mention I hate Necromancers?) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 23:03:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
No, he's not. In all editions, his stats have clearly listed him as CG, not LG. He may come off that way on occasion in some of the books (certainly not all of them) but he is not Lawful. He has several times chosen to interfere in situations where law would dictate he should not. Other times, he chooses not to, when a strictly lawful code might make that warranted.
Why I don't like Thay- well, it's really more a matter of personal preference. As much as I like magic, I do NOT like big empires of wizard-despots and tyrants. I can think of better uses for magic-heavy kingdom than as a slave-driven magocracy with elitist and immoral views. And the "new" Thay is even worse, IMO. Now the zulkir dynamic that made it "mildly" interesting is gone, replaced with a single ruler who has basically turned the place into a mostly empty, dead land, with no opposition, and most of his populace reduced to mindless undead minions. WAY TO RUIN A COUNTRY, Szaz Tam!!! (Did I mention I hate Necromancers?)
Meh. Maybe the newer version of chaotic good is different than what I am used to interpreting it as then.
When he is in hunter mode, sure. But when he is living peacefully among his companions, nah. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 23:25:30
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| Living peacefully with his companions is not enough to qualify for an LG alignment. Like most elves, he values freedom and "justice" over laws or authority. In fact, he's very much a rebel. His early life of questioning everything he grew up with should tell you that much. His refusal to kill an elven child, even going so far as to fake her death, proves that. A lawful person would have more likely turned on his own companions openly, and taken his chances, but Drizzt was torn between what he knew was right, and his fear of becoming the next victim. So he chose the pragmatic road- which is to say, Chaotic. Tricking Bruenor into getting out of his "deathbed", keeping the secret of his "death" from others in Gauntlegrym, attempting to free the goblin slave in the short story (Forgot the goblin's name and story title- watching the Harpels hold a trial without intervening, but later getting neck-deep into the political machinations of Lusken- these are all CG acts. He follows his HEART, not any strict tenets of authority or "Law". During his "Hunter" mode, he actually slips more into CN, which further proves he is not Lawful. (You can't be LG and be a Barbar in 3rd ed, BTW.) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 00:04:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Living peacefully with his companions is not enough to qualify for an LG alignment. Like most elves, he values freedom and "justice" over laws or authority. In fact, he's very much a rebel. His early life of questioning everything he grew up with should tell you that much. His refusal to kill an elven child, even going so far as to fake her death, proves that. A lawful person would have more likely turned on his own companions openly, and taken his chances, but Drizzt was torn between what he knew was right, and his fear of becoming the next victim. So he chose the pragmatic road- which is to say, Chaotic. Tricking Bruenor into getting out of his "deathbed", keeping the secret of his "death" from others in Gauntlegrym, attempting to free the goblin slave in the short story (Forgot the goblin's name and story title- watching the Harpels hold a trial without intervening, but later getting neck-deep into the political machinations of Lusken- these are all CG acts. He follows his HEART, not any strict tenets of authority or "Law". During his "Hunter" mode, he actually slips more into CN, which further proves he is not Lawful. (You can't be LG and be a Barbar in 3rd ed, BTW.)
Again, perhaps it is my difference in how I look at alignment. then again, we focused very little on alignment in my games. Encouraged not to try to stick to the wording, but have natural characters.
I suppose my idea of "Chaotic" falls more into the realm of someone like the Simbul(Which Drizzt seems much more like in his current incarnation) |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 01:58:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Fellshot
Well, the people primarily moving the story were Sylora and Jarlaxle with secondaries from Bruenor, Athrogate and Dor'crae. I'm actually kind of surprised that more Drizzt fans aren't feeling grumpy that the supposed star of the book series didn't do anything plot worthy by himself. I'd be annoyed if a title character's sole function through a story was as a meatshield, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case these days, particularly in really long book series. It's too bad, because I really enjoyed the Jarlaxle/Bruenor team up.
The presence of the Shadovar didn't seem like anything other than set up that did not come into play for this book aside from a few boundary squabbles and thin motivation for a creature that could have been replaced with a golem. Ergo it could have been saved for installment two, when it might actually be important to know about them as something other than window dressing. The Shadovar group didn't seem to have an impact on Sylora's plans except to have her send out regular patrols to keep them out of her hair.
Ummmm. The entire thing accomplished several important things which will be crucial to the next book.
#1 Introduced both sides. The next book, neverwinter wood, will probably be highly focused on these two factions.
#2 Drizzt and Dahlia have met, shared an adventure, and spared us him just randomly meeting her. Drizzt's only incentive to stay near neverwinter was Bruenor's search. With Bruenor dead, he now would have none if not for meeting her. It also gave her some backstory, explaining why she will be at the Shadovar's throats next book.
#3 Artemis now knows Drizzt is alive.
As for Drizzt, I think several people are happy with his role in the book. The new Drizzt is more interesting.
That's less than half a book. Where and between who was the conflict do you think? Who went out and pushed characters together? Whether or not Drizzt became more interesting is strictly in the eye of the beholder and I didn't see anything that I hadn't figured out from the prologue of the Orc King (which hasn't been caught up to yet).
The double D's will likely do exactly what they did through this book: Run headlong into trouble counting on plot armor to save them. Both of them have become nothing more than weapons to the story and if they were supposed to be major characters, would it not have been appropriate to have them help move the story in a major fashion? And is so wrong of me to wish main characters to move a story by their planned actions instead of their reactions to other people's machinations?
Or am I asking for too much from a chronically depressed and self repressed drow? |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 03:06:57
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| I think the reason he had less of a "presnece" in the book is simply that it was not HIS quest- it was Bruenor's. He was along for the ride, for one last adventure with his oldest friend. He knew that Bruenor would not be going back to Mithril Hall, or even to Icewind Dale, so he was just sort of keeping an eye on him out of loyalty, as it were. Now that Bruenor ("Me King!") is out of the picture, he's got nothing tying him down to the past, and he can move on- figuratively, if not literally. I suspect he will become much more active in the next few books, and the conflict (which is apparently a turf-war between Nehterese and Thayvians over Neverwinter Wood, for some reason I haven't yet discerned, beyond the obvious ploy of the Dread Ring) will likely escalate, and perhaps he and Jarlaxle and Athrogate will get involved more directly to stop it all. At least, that's what I'm seeing. He might not have moved the story much, but Bruenor and Athrogate certainly did, there would have been little plot if not for their actions in the ruins. Which seems to be the point. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 03:36:02
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If this book was partially about Bruenor's quest, then Drizzt probably should have been downplayed a lot more than he was. Am I out of line for wanting characters with a lot of face time to do one vitally important plot point per book? I thought I mentioned that Bruenor and Athrogate had actually done something noteworthy earlier... Sorry if it wasn't clear. The third or so of the book that dealt with Sylora versus Jarlaxle, Athrogate, Bruenor and attendant blade golems was my absolute most favorite.
I don't think Drizzt can be an active anything anymore. Put him in front of something that needs killing and he'll do it, but having personal goals besides acceptance on the surface (which is getting tiresome and seems to be pretty much accomplished in some quarters) and professional goals of killing things (also tiresome)... My magic eight ball says "all signs point to no" and it hasn't failed me yet. I'd like him to start dealing with his feeling of abandonment after his shorter-lived friends expire (and will continue to expire) in a way that does not involve going out and looking for random monsters to slay, but I don't think that's going to happen either.
At this point it might be considerably more interesting to me if D1 decided to do a limited term contract with Bregan D'Aerthe, but I don't think that's likely simply because I like the idea and clearly a curmudgeon such as myself can only come up with awful ideas.  |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 04:05:59
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| Not a bad idea at that, actually. I'm starting to think from some of Jarlaxle's comments to Drizzy that perhaps this series will focus on his search for a new meaning to his existence, new goals/life, and perhaps learning to understand his own motivations better- like he used to do in the early books. In the Homeland-Exile-Sojourn trilogy, he questioned almost everything, but complacency about his place among the companion seems to have dulled that urge over the years.He simply had no reason to question his place, because he was content with it. Now that is gone, and he may soon find himself questioning his own values and motives once again. This might lead to some interesting revelations and new directions and associations. I'm hoping for the best in this regard, but we'll see what transpires.... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 05:14:53
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I wish you best of luck in hoping for the best. I have to say that I gave up hoping for the best regarding D1 a long time ago. There are not enough sporks for me to properly deal with him. Jarlaxle might be able to help D1 overcome his feelings of abandonment and loss... but I mislike D1's reaction to Jarlaxle's attempt to shake sense into him.
I hold out for my second favorite fictional fashion disaster though.  |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2011 : 02:25:29
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My current favorite fashion disaster is Lord Akeldama from Gail Carriger's Parasol Protectorate books. I swear he could give Jarlaxle lessons on dressing for distraction and Jarlaxle should let Ivy Hisslepenny pick out his hats. :3
D1might start thinking about what Jarlaxle said... But he might have to stop staring at D2's absurd neck and hemlines first.  That might happen in the third book, but I doubt it'll happen in the second unless it's a jounal entry. |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2011 : 06:40:14
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The downside is that you know that after D2, he will be put off females forever. Well... Maybe it'll be a few centuries. Thank goodness for slash fics! Maybe he and Valas will have a torrid affair or something. |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2011 : 23:18:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Drizzt is starting to scare me here. When even Jarlaxle has to practically slap some sense into him, you know there's a problem. Not only is he hiding from his pain
I actually like him, this way. He's more interesting. It makes sense for him to be this way, given what he's gone through.
Remaining altruistic is tiresome.
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but he's turning into the very thing he always professed to hate. Time away from Menzo has made him forget just how bad it was there. Maybe a visit to the old home would jog his memory.
Oh, I think that's overstating it, a bit. Drizzt is easily angered, but he's not out for personal ambition and profit. He's just using fighting to avoid having to think--and feel--about things. And clearly, he is still capable of maintaining a true friendship (with Bruenor, at least).
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Jarlaxle seems to have a better head on his shoulders these days than old Drizzy.
Jar apparently sent drow to agonize Artemis/Barrabus with his ex-lover Calihye and extort him into rejoining with Bregan D'aerthe, which led to Barrabus's being hurt and Calihye disappearing.
After agreeing to help Bruenor look for Cat and Reg, and knowing full well that Bruenor was looking for Gauntlgrym, the drow agreed to go on an expedition with a couple of Thayans to steal dwarven treasure.
And he considered Menzo--the same evil place you were referring to--to be trapped in a better time, post-Spellplague.
How does this constitute a "better head"?
In order to keep all of this consistent, my take on Jar's comments about Drizzt is that Jar really only admires Drizzt for defying the matronly rule of Menzo and having the strength of will to be an independent operator--rather than admiring Drizzt for being goodly and honorable. Jar is apparently only disappointed in Drizzt because the ranger's latest behavior undermines the idea that a male drow can successfully go rogue from the ways of Menzo without self-destructing.
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I almost wanted to smack Drizzt for missing that little piece of scrimshaw when he was visiting the supposed site of the place toward the beginning, though!
It only shows that Drizzt isn't perfect. He can't see (and fix) everything. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 01:15:51
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One can gain wisdom and insight, and even maturity, without loosing one's ideals. That seems to be what Drizzt is doing- in hiding from his pain by fighting, he is forgetting WHY he fights, looking for any excuse to get into battle, just to avoid having to deal with his losses- or perhaps he is trying to get himself killed, to be with them again? A bit of self-destructive survivor's guilt would not surprise me in the least. It's almost like he's got a death wish, or is just tired of living already.
That leads into- by turning into what he hates, I meant that Drizzt has been fighting purely out of rage, hate, and desire to hunt/fight, which is in fact the typical mindset of most drow in Menzo. In his early days he fought only when he felt he HAD to- now, he does it at the drop of a hat- just like every other drow in Menzo! THAT'S what it looks like he's becoming- the same bitter, rage-filled killing -machine that Zaknafein wished for him NOT to be.
This is also what I think Jarlaxle meant when he spoke to Drizzt about escaping. He saw the rage and bitter hatred taking over Drizzt- whom He's always admired not for being an independent operator, which he is himself, since his band is not even affiliated with any one House, but because he was able to throw off the bonds of the Matrons and Lolth herself- and he's disappointed by the though that even Drizzt seems to be sliding back into that cold and ruthless mindset. Jarlaxle is smart enough to realize that he's just as ambitious and meddlesome in his own way as all the rest, and he's okay with that. He does what he wants, and whatever profits him and his friends the most- and does so without remorse. But he also does care about others, to some extent, and seeing a friend start to turn away from his ideals seems to be upsetting him. In the sense that he knows and accepts his own motivations, Jarlaxle is more level-headed than Drizzt at this point, as Drizzt doesn't even know WHY he's been fighting so much! So, yes, within his own moral fabric, Jarl's, got a straighter head on. Drizzy's just confused and angry, and not thinking clearly.
Yes, he's not perfect. But it was just sort of sad how quickly he gave up when he didn't see anything, and then walked right by the very thing he was looking for- PROOF! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 03:20:52
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| Drizzt is long overdue for retirement, but can never rest because the evil multi-planar cabal of New York Times Book Critics always manages to create pressing challenges which only Drizzt can address. I hear that this is the same cabal who manipulated Elminster into insanity. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Gauntlgrym -- Chapters 19 - 24 & Epilogue
