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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 07:08:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
I think a Drizzt movie would be a great idea. Its about time we got a movie or at least a TV show about the realms.
Look at Games of Thrones it was both critically and commercially successful.
There are many, many stories in the Realms. Many have been told, and many more can be told... I really don't want yet another itineration of a story that's already been told twice. Personally, if we were going to see the Realms in another media, I'd prefer a new story.
After all, every Realms author has always told new stories. In the novels and anthologies, it's always been new stories, not rehashing old ones (note: rehashing and reprinting are not the same thing). We had new tales when we had the DC/TSR comics.
And even Erevis Cale and Drizzt Do'Urden were once new characters that no one had heard of.
Now, if we absolutely have to rehash an old story instead of telling a new one, I'd rather see one on Erevis. I'm actually not a fan of Erevis, but he's also very popular, and telling his story would be far easier than dealing with what would be perceived as racism, in a Drizzt tale.
Well even I would like to be dazzled by something new but are people willing to take a chance on that? I mean D&D does not have the resources to launch movie after movie.
For example there is the case of Final fanasty The Spirits Within, it had a completely new plot line with little resemblance to conventional FF but was hated by both fans and newcomers whereas FF Advent Children merely continued the story of FF7 but was much more popular in spite to being released direct to DVD.
Thats a good point actually Drizzts story is a tad long for a movie even for a trilogy but Erevis is much more manageable. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 07:27:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
For example there is the case of Final fanasty The Spirits Within, it had a completely new plot line with little resemblance to conventional FF but was hated by both fans and newcomers whereas FF Advent Children merely continued the story of FF7 but was much more popular in spite to being released direct to DVD.
Thats a good point actually Drizzts story is a tad long for a movie even for a trilogy but Erevis is much more manageable.
-The Spirits Within was also a totally, completely, utterly crappy movie.  |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 11:44:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
For example there is the case of Final fanasty The Spirits Within, it had a completely new plot line with little resemblance to conventional FF but was hated by both fans and newcomers whereas FF Advent Children merely continued the story of FF7 but was much more popular in spite to being released direct to DVD.
Thats a good point actually Drizzts story is a tad long for a movie even for a trilogy but Erevis is much more manageable.
-The Spirits Within was also a totally, completely, utterly crappy movie.
My lord you have my complete and utter support for that statement. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 17:39:17
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Seconded. Didn't even bother to finish it. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 17:52:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
I think a Drizzt movie would be a great idea. Its about time we got a movie or at least a TV show about the realms.
Look at Games of Thrones it was both critically and commercially successful.
There are many, many stories in the Realms. Many have been told, and many more can be told... I really don't want yet another itineration of a story that's already been told twice. Personally, if we were going to see the Realms in another media, I'd prefer a new story.
After all, every Realms author has always told new stories. In the novels and anthologies, it's always been new stories, not rehashing old ones (note: rehashing and reprinting are not the same thing). We had new tales when we had the DC/TSR comics.
And even Erevis Cale and Drizzt Do'Urden were once new characters that no one had heard of.
Now, if we absolutely have to rehash an old story instead of telling a new one, I'd rather see one on Erevis. I'm actually not a fan of Erevis, but he's also very popular, and telling his story would be far easier than dealing with what would be perceived as racism, in a Drizzt tale.
Well even I would like to be dazzled by something new but are people willing to take a chance on that? I mean D&D does not have the resources to launch movie after movie.
For example there is the case of Final fanasty The Spirits Within, it had a completely new plot line with little resemblance to conventional FF but was hated by both fans and newcomers whereas FF Advent Children merely continued the story of FF7 but was much more popular in spite to being released direct to DVD.
Thats a good point actually Drizzts story is a tad long for a movie even for a trilogy but Erevis is much more manageable.
Granted, D&D doesn't have the resources to launch movie after movie -- which is further reason to tell a new story, instead of going thru the complications of adapting an existing one. If you tell a new story, any problematic elements can simply be left out. Casting would be easier, too. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 18:04:10
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Adaptations rarely stick to the original. So the movie could be based on old books, with a couple of edited parts here and there. Or a continuation of an existing series, giving the character background in a few flashbacks. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 18:31:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Adaptations rarely stick to the original. So the movie could be based on old books, with a couple of edited parts here and there. Or a continuation of an existing series, giving the character background in a few flashbacks.
If it doesn't stick to the original, fans will complain about that. People will still complain if their favorite character isn't the focus of the movie, but unless you have a movie featuring Erevis, Drizzt, Elminster, and a host of others all together, you're still going to have that complaint.
A new story -- as all Realms authors have told -- would be the easiest solution. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 18:43:22
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A new story featuring new characters? In other words, some "nobodies"? I don't think the producers would take that risk. That's like having a Marvel movie without the Marvel superheroes in it. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 22:38:45
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| Wizards ought to team up with Marvel Studios. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 22:44:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
A new story featuring new characters? In other words, some "nobodies"? I don't think the producers would take that risk. That's like having a Marvel movie without the Marvel superheroes in it.
Yes, nobodies, like Drizzt and Erevis once were. Or like Luke Skywalker once was. Or the Terminator. Or Austin Powers.
It's not the same thing when you've got an entire world to draw from, and where almost every single story told is new ones with new characters. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 22:56:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
A new story featuring new characters? In other words, some "nobodies"? I don't think the producers would take that risk. That's like having a Marvel movie without the Marvel superheroes in it.
-No, that'd be like a Marvel movie that creates it's own superhero, not a Marvel movie featuring the otherwise ordinary tale of "Gary the Sanitation Worker". Set in the Marvel-616 version of New York, it features..."Beetle Boy" and his nemesis, "The Green Mantis". Places/people that are common in Marvel New York- the Avengers Tower, the Daily Bugle, mutants, maybe a cameo by the Fantastic Four, whatever- can be set as a backdrop behind an original story. The same elements that attract people to other original superheroes can/will still be there.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If it doesn't stick to the original, fans will complain about that.
-Tom Bombadil wasn't featured? The Shire was not razed? Son of a... |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 26 Feb 2012 22:58:55 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 00:01:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Seconded. Didn't even bother to finish it.
Eh. I can't ever do that with a film. Regardless of how bad I may find it, I still feel the compulsive need to see the film through to the end in case there's a tidbit or two that might prove useful for application somewhere else in my many, many ideas. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 00:02:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Adaptations rarely stick to the original. So the movie could be based on old books, with a couple of edited parts here and there. Or a continuation of an existing series, giving the character background in a few flashbacks.
Adaptations usually take a specific storyline and alter it to a point by either drawing in elements from other prominent storylines, or introducing new elements altogether.
The two Iron Man films [especially the second] are prime examples of films being based on prior properties. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 00:05:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
A new story featuring new characters? In other words, some "nobodies"? I don't think the producers would take that risk. That's like having a Marvel movie without the Marvel superheroes in it.
Not really. Because they did kind of do that already, in part.
Aside from the actors who played the Invisible Woman and the Thing in the Fantastic Four films, I doubt many people knew who the actors playing Mister Fantastic and the Human Torch were.
And Thor is another example. Aside from a few on-screen parts in Australian television shows, most international folk wouldn't have known who the actor playing the God of Thunder, was. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 00:12:36
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
A new story featuring new characters? In other words, some "nobodies"? I don't think the producers would take that risk. That's like having a Marvel movie without the Marvel superheroes in it.
Not really. Because they did kind of do that already, in part.
Aside from the actors who played the Invisible Woman and the Thing in the Fantastic Four films, I doubt many people knew who the actors playing Mister Fantastic and the Human Torch were.
And Thor is another example. Aside from a few on-screen parts in Australian television shows, most international folk wouldn't have known who the actor playing the God of Thunder, was.
I was referring to characters, not actors. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 00:33:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
Wizards ought to team up with Marvel Studios.
Why not? I would not even mind some (major) crossovers. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 00:34:16
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Still, it can be applied to what I said above.
New characters offer little in the way of pre-conceived notions among audiences for how they should be according to the adapted material. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 00:37:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
A new story featuring new characters? In other words, some "nobodies"? I don't think the producers would take that risk. That's like having a Marvel movie without the Marvel superheroes in it.
Yes, nobodies, like Drizzt and Erevis once were. Or like Luke Skywalker once was. Or the Terminator. Or Austin Powers.
It's not the same thing when you've got an entire world to draw from, and where almost every single story told is new ones with new characters.
Spider-man was already very famous long before the first film was made. Same goes with many superhero movies. Heck, even fantasy ones: Harry Potter, LotR, Chronicles of Narnia, and many others.
Many movies bank on the existing popularity of the characters. Can't blame them, though. That's business. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 00:40:58
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Seconded. Didn't even bother to finish it.
Eh. I can't ever do that with a film. Regardless of how bad I may find it, I still feel the compulsive need to see the film through to the end in case there's a tidbit or two that might prove useful for application somewhere else in my many, many ideas.
Time is very important. I can't waste it for something I might only enjoy 1% of the entire time.
I can't remember the many times I walked out of the cinema, slept inside, or threw the DVDs because of how boring the movies were. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 27 Feb 2012 00:41:56 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 01:15:21
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Still, it can be applied to what I said above.
New characters offer little in the way of pre-conceived notions among audiences for how they should be according to the adapted material.
And now that I think about this, Green Lantern is another example.
Just how many non-comic reading folk among the audience knew of Sinestro, the Guardians, Parallax, or even Hector Hammond?
Banking on the established nature of popular characters isn't the only way to do a film based on adapted material. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 01:23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Still, it can be applied to what I said above.
New characters offer little in the way of pre-conceived notions among audiences for how they should be according to the adapted material.
Just how many non-comic reading folk among the audience knew of Sinestro, the Guardians, Parallax, or even Hector Hammond?
Who cares about them? Almost everyone watched the movie because of Green Lantern himself.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Banking on the established nature of popular characters isn't the only way to do a film based on adapted material.
True, but can we blame the producers if they often do, when in the end it generates millions? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 01:39:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Still, it can be applied to what I said above.
New characters offer little in the way of pre-conceived notions among audiences for how they should be according to the adapted material.
Just how many non-comic reading folk among the audience knew of Sinestro, the Guardians, Parallax, or even Hector Hammond?
Who cares about them? Almost everyone watched the movie because of Green Lantern himself.
Sinestro is, and has long been, a very popular character in the GL mythos. So I cared about him... perhaps even more so than Hal Jordan himself. And the Guardians have been part of the Green Lantern saga since the near-beginning. They're integral to the tale being told.
You have to care about them, otherwise the story just doesn't work as well.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 01:52:30
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
You have to care about them, otherwise the story just doesn't work as well.
Maybe. However, I don't see how this supports the notion that introducing "new" characters is better than banking on the already famous ones. The said characters might be unknown to many moviegoers, but, as I noted earlier, what drew most of them was GL himself. And the actor, of course. IMO, that is. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 03:07:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
You have to care about them, otherwise the story just doesn't work as well.
Maybe. However, I don't see how this supports the notion that introducing "new" characters is better than banking on the already famous ones.
Well, the fact that among some audiences, Sinestro was actually perceived as the more interesting character -- over that of the titled star-character.
In terms of the non-comic reading crowd, Sinestro is a "new" character for them. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 04:01:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
A new story featuring new characters? In other words, some "nobodies"? I don't think the producers would take that risk. That's like having a Marvel movie without the Marvel superheroes in it.
Yes, nobodies, like Drizzt and Erevis once were. Or like Luke Skywalker once was. Or the Terminator. Or Austin Powers.
It's not the same thing when you've got an entire world to draw from, and where almost every single story told is new ones with new characters.
Spider-man was already very famous long before the first film was made. Same goes with many superhero movies. Heck, even fantasy ones: Harry Potter, LotR, Chronicles of Narnia, and many others.
And that's why I didn't mention any of them.
What I mentioned were entire movie franchises built off of brand new, created for the movie characters. I was offering proof that you can make a movie with nobodies and have it succeed, and that it has happened more than once.
Heck, if we consider one-shot movies like ET or movies that don't yet have sequels, like Avatar, then the list of successful movies built on "nobodies" gets much, much larger -- to the point of dwarfing to insignificance the number of successful movies that were adaptations. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 04:09:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
You have to care about them, otherwise the story just doesn't work as well.
Maybe. However, I don't see how this supports the notion that introducing "new" characters is better than banking on the already famous ones. The said characters might be unknown to many moviegoers, but, as I noted earlier, what drew most of them was GL himself. And the actor, of course. IMO, that is.
So what drew people to movie theaters in 1977, when no one had heard of Mark Hamill or Luke Skywalker?
Besides... People that read books for pleasure are a small portion of the movie-going audience. People that read fantasy books are a smaller portion of that small portion. And people that read Realms novels are a smaller portion of that. If they make a movie to cater to us, they'd be lucky to start with the budget of Clerks and still break even.
If you want a Wizards movie to be successful, it has to appeal to a larger portion of the populace, which means a lot of people that wouldn't know the difference between a drow and a krakentua. You have to cater to them, which means a simpler story, and more draw than just "yeah, there's this guy who fights with two curved swords, and he kicks everyone's butt!" |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 27 Feb 2012 04:11:14 |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 12:57:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Maybe. However, I don't see how this supports the notion that introducing "new" characters is better than banking on the already famous ones. The said characters might be unknown to many moviegoers, but, as I noted earlier, what drew most of them was GL himself. And the actor, of course. IMO, that is.
[/quote]
So what drew people to movie theaters in 1977, when no one had heard of Mark Hamill or Luke Skywalker?
Besides... People that read books for pleasure are a small portion of the movie-going audience. People that read fantasy books are a smaller portion of that small portion. And people that read Realms novels are a smaller portion of that. If they make a movie to cater to us, they'd be lucky to start with the budget of Clerks and still break even.
If you want a Wizards movie to be successful, it has to appeal to a larger portion of the populace, which means a lot of people that wouldn't know the difference between a drow and a krakentua. You have to cater to them, which means a simpler story, and more draw than just "yeah, there's this guy who fights with two curved swords, and he kicks everyone's butt!"
[/quote]
Maybe but even Star Wars was a movie that was expected to fail. The only one that believed in it was Lucas himself. So are the D&D staff willing to take such a chance? I mean some recognition is better than none. If people see 'based on besting selling novel' in the trailer they may decide to watch. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 18:17:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
Maybe but even Star Wars was a movie that was expected to fail. The only one that believed in it was Lucas himself. So are the D&D staff willing to take such a chance? I mean some recognition is better than none. If people see 'based on besting selling novel' in the trailer they may decide to watch.
Two studios expected it to fail. The third was willing to take a chance -- something they wouldn't have done if they'd've expected it to fail.
If all studios had expected it to fail, we'd not be talking about it now because it never would have been made. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 18:27:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertBesides... People that read books for pleasure are a small portion of the movie-going audience. People that read fantasy books are a smaller portion of that small portion. And people that read Realms novels are a smaller portion of that. If they make a movie to cater to us, they'd be lucky to start with the budget of Clerks and still break even.
If you want a Wizards movie to be successful, it has to appeal to a larger portion of the populace, which means a lot of people that wouldn't know the difference between a drow and a krakentua. You have to cater to them, which means a simpler story, and more draw than just "yeah, there's this guy who fights with two curved swords, and he kicks everyone's butt!"
This is my argument why NOT to do a Drizzt movie. If its not going to be done right, I don't want it. If that means it can't be done, I am OK with that.
I INTENSELY dislike when directors make 'their own version' of an established property. XMEN and XMEN II were good. Wolverine origins broke down horribly. Splitting emma frost into two characters, adding deadpool for NO reason and then creating their own version of the character really made a good movie terrible.
I remember the old Hul vs Thor tv movie in the 80's. I am a THOR fan through and through. Yet I hated that movie as it did nothing for marvel's properties. The movies coming out of MArvel studios are finally done correctly. Comic fans and noncomic movie goers alike enjoy the films because they are done correctly.
A movie about Drizzt could sell to gamers. Never to the larger crowd so don't bother. Make a new character, set in the forgotten realms, and name it something cool (not D&D). Using the Forgotten Realms as set dressing and not including it in the name is completley viable. Make a fantasy film in the vein of Lord of the Rings and set it in the forgotten realms, possibly introducing Drizzt as a secondary character. The realms is easier to do correctly than a character.
Making a Drizzt movie untrue to the character is a simple 1980's B movie botch.
In today's world of Lord of the Rings and competent Comic book films, I could not settle for less with a character like Drizzt Do'Urden. I would have settled in the 80's or 90's, not now when films can prove they can sell when true to their properties.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
Edited by - Mournblade on 27 Feb 2012 18:29:42 |
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drizzt movie
