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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Nov 2007 : 20:18:39
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Just a quick question - Suzara returns to Impiltur with her youngest son in 10DR, in 47DR 'The Thronelord' was overthrown by Tolorn and the Obarskyr mercenary company.
Can I assume that Her and Ondeth's son might have been involved/be leading this mercenary group? I know what Suzara ended up as, am just trying to pin down if another Obarskyr line from Ondeth survived/survives.
My players are getting itchy about a 'outsider' Obarskyr taking over the throne from King-to-be Azoun V (its a long complicated campaign arc, suffice to say it they believe that it is possible that one of 'true' Obarskyr blood can take the throne from the current incumbent).
Thanks
Damian
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2007 : 00:20:48
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Their son Vaerom was indeed the "head of the family" at the time and the Obarskyrs were a rising force in Impiltur. They did assist Torlorn overthrow the "Thronelord" - if you look at the Impiltur lineage in GHotR you will understand to some extent the dynastic difficulties that Impiltur was experiencing at the time.
Problem is, Torlorn got his throne not only with their assistance but due to the battle savvy and prowess of his younger brother Morlorn. When Torlorn's son succeeded him, Morlorn felt shut out and ignored by his "impudent whelp of a nephew". The Obarskyrs too felt shortchanged - they thought that their assistance to Torlorn merited an elevation to the nobility (so they could match their cousins in far-off Cormyr and which Torlorn dangled as a carrot, but never followed through with on purpose: wanting them to be a slave to their ambitions and thereby controlled and manipulated accordingly) which hadn't occurred.
So it was that Morlorn poisoned his nephew and usurped the throne - the Obarskyrs under Vaerom providing the muscle for the coup. In time, Varanth's son Baranth reclaimed the throne and exiled the Obarskyrs from Impiltur (they fled when Morlorn fell at the Battle of Ilithra's Smile - they would have been executed if they had been caught).
In fleeing they travelled to Cormyr and their kin. King Rhiiman refused to give them sanctuary and involve the realm in their treachery and soon sent them on their way. The aged Vaerom and his five sons travelled south to Westgate and then departed for other lands. Their stories from then on, remain a mystery.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2007 : 11:40:24
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Their son Vaerom was indeed the "head of the family" at the time and
-- George Krashos
Many thanks Krash for your comprehensive and illuminating answer.
Interestingly an Obarskyr from Westgate has turned up im my Cormyr campaign and has been proven 'true blood' descended from the Obarskyrs of old by both the swords of state and a wish cast by Caladnehast, err Caladnei in the Royal Court in front of the assembled Nobles of the Realm, (well at least that is what the characters have heard/been told).
As an aside: My good lady will be well chuffed with your answer, it was her who remembered Suzara leaving Cormyr with youngest son (from reading C:AN) and she speculated that he might be of the Blood of Ondeth (her Mage in the game has spent a lot of time learning the Ancient History of Cormyr and I didn't mind her using character and peronal knowledge in this context - so a quick read in GHotR seemed to confirm her guess!)
Always love it when my players challenge me to be more thoughtful and creative with Realms Lore and suprise me with their insights on topics I completely missed!
Cheers
Damian
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 22:37:42
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*casts raise scroll*
I'm just guessing that any further information on the Impiltur-Westgate Obarskyrs is either non-existent or NDA (pending the Cormyr Lineage release, and possibly independent of that). I'm raising this scroll in the hopes that I might be wrong, even about the tiniest bit of lore that's not found here (or in the list of monarchs from the GHotR) already. Many thanks to Brian/Garen or any other Cormyr-savvy scribe who can answer my query.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 22:57:48
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This is an example of scroll necromancy done right.
Good find, Jakk.
Candidate for the "Looking for all info about Cormyr" scroll? |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 23:10:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
*casts raise scroll*
I'm just guessing that any further information on the Impiltur-Westgate Obarskyrs is either non-existent or NDA (pending the Cormyr Lineage release, and possibly independent of that). I'm raising this scroll in the hopes that I might be wrong, even about the tiniest bit of lore that's not found here (or in the list of monarchs from the GHotR) already. Many thanks to Brian/Garen or any other Cormyr-savvy scribe who can answer my query.
Hi Jakk
Krash is probably the man to go to on this as Impiltur is his area of expertise. I would suspect that the Cormyr lineage is unaffected by George's post as these particular Obarskys have nothing to do Cormyr 'officially'.
Thanks for reminding me of the scroll, I'll have to get my thinking head on as to where the Obarskyrs went post Westgate for my campaign. The first thing that pops into my head is that Caladnei was a wizard to the descendants of Vaerom and Vangy wanted her away from them or better yet and something known to Vangy a true descendant of Vaerom Obarskyr. So maybe the 'hidden heir' was in plain sight all the time?
I'll go ponder this some more, make some links for my campaign and let it quietly slip into the ongoing campaign and see if my players figure it out
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2012 : 01:06:14
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
Hi Jakk
Krash is probably the man to go to on this as Impiltur is his area of expertise. I would suspect that the Cormyr lineage is unaffected by George's post as these particular Obarskys have nothing to do Cormyr 'officially'.
Thanks for reminding me of the scroll, I'll have to get my thinking head on as to where the Obarskyrs went post Westgate for my campaign. The first thing that pops into my head is that Caladnei was a wizard to the descendants of Vaerom and Vangy wanted her away from them or better yet and something known to Vangy a true descendant of Vaerom Obarskyr. So maybe the 'hidden heir' was in plain sight all the time?
I'll go ponder this some more, make some links for my campaign and let it quietly slip into the ongoing campaign and see if my players figure it out
Cheers
Damian
I suspect you're right about the Impiltur/Westgate Obarskyrs, which is good, in a way; I still believe that we'll only see the Lineage when FR finds a new publisher, but as I've said before, pessimism works for me.
Damian, I love both of your ideas regarding Caladnei... something to ask Ed about, methinks... although answers will be brief; either "No" or "NDA"... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2012 : 01:08:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
This is an example of scroll necromancy done right.
Good find, Jakk.
Candidate for the "Looking for all info about Cormyr" scroll?
Thanks, Jeremy.
I definitely think that there should be a link there to this one, if there isn't already... although I'm not inclined to search through a scroll that size to find such a link... but maybe I can make Google do the work for me...
Edit: Meh. Apparently not. Link forthcoming anyway.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 01 Mar 2012 01:16:32 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2012 : 01:19:28
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The "Obarskyrs in Westgate" plot hook was purposely left dangling by me as I thought it always gave a great opportunity for DMs to weave in "other" Obarskyrs (either as PCs or NPCs) into a Cormyr campaign.
Whilst not privy to any discussions with WotC on the topic and not having chatted to Ed about it either, I would say that it's fairly certain that most DMs would have free rein here. There is no "NDA" applicable here that I'm aware of, noting that no where in print (novels or sourcebooks) has this hook even been mentioned.
People should make of it what they want.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2012 : 01:41:31
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The "Obarskyrs in Westgate" plot hook was purposely left dangling by me as I thought it always gave a great opportunity for DMs to weave in "other" Obarskyrs (either as PCs or NPCs) into a Cormyr campaign.
Whilst not privy to any discussions with WotC on the topic and not having chatted to Ed about it either, I would say that it's fairly certain that most DMs would have free rein here. There is no "NDA" applicable here that I'm aware of, noting that no where in print (novels or sourcebooks) has this hook even been mentioned.
People should make of it what they want.
-- George Krashos
Many thanks for the swift reply, George! I was suspecting as much, but I thought I'd throw the question out there anyway. I'm just puzzled that, given the precarious state of the Cormyr Obarskyr dynasty as of DR 1375, nothing was done with this. Obarskyrs from the other branch of the family in Westgate waiting for an opportunity for glory just let that ship sail out from under them, so it's probably pretty safe to assume that any Obarskyrs in Westgate at that time had bigger things to worry about than rounding up a mercenary invasion force to topple a dynasty... what that could be, well, now, there's a story... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2012 : 02:27:49
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Folks, please note that as regards most things that can be talked about re: the Lineage, George should be considered an authority; he has seen the document in its entirety, wrote or corrected portions of it, and otherwise consulted with or by the appropriate parties when changes have been made. I may be the "keeper of the Blood Royal," as it were, but George is as much of an expert as anyone.
That said, here's my take on the Caladnei-Vaerom connection.
-It's unlikely that a Royal Magician of Cormyr would ever actually be descended from a royal of the realm. Other than Caladnei, all Mages Royal have been known or claimed to descend from the first such wizard, Baerauble Etharr.
-Vaerom would in no way be considered a royal or even a noble of Cormyr. Royalty is traced from Faerlthann First-King, not from Ondeth Obarskyr, and the three "royal" houses draw their claims on the Dragon Throne from their relationship to the first ruler of Cormyr, not from Ondeth the Founder.
-Obarskyrs are lusty, impetuous, brave, and foolish. But they aren't stupid. You can bet that any Obarskyrs operating anywhere near the Forest Kingdom--if any descendants of Vaerom have survived--would have long since given up the use of that royal name.
-Should Faerlthann's line fail, the crown falls to (in order) to Houses Crownsilver, Truesilver, and then Huntsilver.
-There are already sufficient illegitimate offspring of the various monarchs (yes, Azoun IV, but others, too) to create enough of a succession crisis without bringing in a non-royal cadet branch of the family that hasn't been allowed into the kingdom for more than 1300 years.
If all of the known Obarskyrs, all of the Crownsilvers, Truesilvers, and Huntsilvers, and all of the bastards of the kings of Cormyr disappeared, then yes, Vaerom's line might be considered as rulers. Of course, by then, their throne would be built of skull and bone, and there would be few Cormyreans indeed to rule over, what with the decade-long civil war that got us to that point, but... |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2012 : 02:48:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Folks, please note that as regards most things that can be talked about re: the Lineage, George should be considered an authority; he has seen the document in its entirety, wrote or corrected portions of it, and otherwise consulted with or by the appropriate parties when changes have been made. I may be the "keeper of the Blood Royal," as it were, but George is as much of an expert as anyone.
Good to know... but what we really need is someone with the authority and willingness to publish the danged thing... as you said, "in its entirety." 
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
That said, here's my take on the Caladnei-Vaerom connection.
-It's unlikely that a Royal Magician of Cormyr would ever actually be descended from a royal of the realm. Other than Caladnei, all Mages Royal have been known or claimed to descend from the first such wizard, Baerauble Etharr.
"known or claimed," eh? Is there something here to be suspicious of? 
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
-Vaerom would in no way be considered a royal or even a noble of Cormyr. Royalty is traced from Faerlthann First-King, not from Ondeth Obarskyr, and the three "royal" houses draw their claims on the Dragon Throne from their relationship to the first ruler of Cormyr, not from Ondeth the Founder.
The first part, I was aware of. The bit about the "royal" houses I was not (apart from their ties via the Silver brothers' marriage to daughters of Faerlthann), but it's much clearer now... and logically, it would make sense that they would precede any other descendants of Ondeth in the succession.
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
-Obarskyrs are lusty, impetuous, brave, and foolish. But they aren't stupid. You can bet that any Obarskyrs operating anywhere near the Forest Kingdom--if any descendants of Vaerom have survived--would have long since given up the use of that royal name.
So... we should be looking for someone who looks like an Obarskyr, but doesn't bear the name... who is more likely to be a bastard (at one generation or another) descendant of Faerlthann anyway.
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Should Faerlthann's line fail, the crown falls to (in order) to Houses Crownsilver, Truesilver, and then Huntsilver.
-There are already sufficient illegitimate offspring of the various monarchs (yes, Azoun IV, but others, too) to create enough of a succession crisis without bringing in a non-royal cadet branch of the family that hasn't been allowed into the kingdom for more than 1300 years.
See my previous comments for both.
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
If all of the known Obarskyrs, all of the Crownsilvers, Truesilvers, and Huntsilvers, and all of the bastards of the kings of Cormyr disappeared, then yes, Vaerom's line might be considered as rulers. Of course, by then, their throne would be built of skull and bone, and there would be few Cormyreans indeed to rule over, what with the decade-long civil war that got us to that point, but...
In other words, the elves would have long since intervened and kicked all the humans out... or simply expedited the extermination. Gotcha. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2012 : 06:46:47
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I do think a neat story could be told about a descendant of Vaerom who has been groomed to believe that he is fulfilling his family's centuries-long destiny by marrying his way onto the Dragon Throne . . . only to murder his wife and take his "rightful" place as ruler of his ancestral homeland. Which could be set either Pre-Spellplague (regarding Alusair) or 1480s era (regarding Raedra).
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2012 : 01:15:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I do think a neat story could be told about a descendant of Vaerom who has been groomed to believe that he is fulfilling his family's centuries-long destiny by marrying his way onto the Dragon Throne . . . only to murder his wife and take his "rightful" place as ruler of his ancestral homeland. Which could be set either Pre-Spellplague (regarding Alusair) or 1480s era (regarding Raedra).
Cheers
 I like this... very much... has anybody mentioned the premise to Ed or Brian C. yet? I'd like to know what their take is on such a premise in the context of certain legends regarding the throne of Cormyr.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2012 : 09:18:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I do think a neat story could be told about a descendant of Vaerom who has been groomed to believe that he is fulfilling his family's centuries-long destiny by marrying his way onto the Dragon Throne . . . only to murder his wife and take his "rightful" place as ruler of his ancestral homeland. Which could be set either Pre-Spellplague (regarding Alusair) or 1480s era (regarding Raedra).
Cheers
Erik you have pitched this to the book department, Yes?
I for one would love to see more fiction on Cormyr, especially the 'darker' side of politics and schemes.
Looking forward to hearing they said yes to you novel!
regards
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2012 : 14:32:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I do think a neat story could be told about a descendant of Vaerom who has been groomed to believe that he is fulfilling his family's centuries-long destiny by marrying his way onto the Dragon Throne . . . only to murder his wife and take his "rightful" place as ruler of his ancestral homeland. Which could be set either Pre-Spellplague (regarding Alusair) or 1480s era (regarding Raedra).
Cheers
I like this... very much... has anybody mentioned the premise to Ed or Brian C. yet? I'd like to know what their take is on such a premise in the context of certain legends regarding the throne of Cormyr.
It's not outside the realm of possibility.
Remember, though, that legends are legends for a reason. There is a kernel of truth to them all, but the tales that swirl around them may or may not be the wisest or most correct of interpretations. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2012 : 14:34:39
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| Oh, and as regards the lineage of Caladnei, I've checked and re-checked this with Ed, and--beyond what is revealed in Elminster's Daughter, the 3E game material, and my "Cormyr Royale" article--her past and bloodline are most certainly to be considered under NDA for the time being. Unfortunately. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2012 : 23:13:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Oh, and as regards the lineage of Caladnei, I've checked and re-checked this with Ed, and--beyond what is revealed in Elminster's Daughter, the 3E game material, and my "Cormyr Royale" article--her past and bloodline are most certainly to be considered under NDA for the time being. Unfortunately.
 Most unfortunate, I agree... are we any closer to seeing the Lineage published? I've been pushing the "tell WotC you want this" angle here at the Keep (albeit less aggressively as of late), but maybe Ed, you, and I are the only three people who want this to happen.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Obarskyrs in Impiltur
