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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 04:31:28
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One of the reasons a thread is sealed is because a scribe fails to adhere to CK's CoC. But I think (as in the RL) it's not fair to condemn both the guilty and the witness. There are scribes who try their best to stick to the rules, and would want to continue having their voice heard – yet couldn't, due to some people who can't seem to see the difference between a troll and a civilized human being. Hence, I think there SHOULD be a BLOCK MEMBER from the Thread. If the OP him-/herself leaves the bounds of CoC, then by all means block him/her. The power to block, of course, should be left to the MODs and to them alone.
What do you think, fellow scribes?
Mod Edit: Shifted to a more appropriate shelf.
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - The Sage on 06 Dec 2010 04:35:59
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 04:40:45
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| @ Sage, I was about to do the same when I saw it in GC. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 07:30:47
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My experience with sealed scrolls is that, usually, it's not just one poster. It takes (at least) two to troll. So that means two scribes already. Looking at some past experiences, if I were a moderator, I would find it very hard, in most cases, to single out one poster (or even two, for that matter) who is the single troll in a thread.
From a more non-principled, management-cop out POV, I would also find it easier to block a thread rather than have to single out one particular individual. That makes it bit more "personal", and people tend to react more passionately when they feel it's "personal".
I've cases where threads have been blocked because of excessive fireworks, and the subject was continued in a new thread. In some cases it degenerated (again) and in some cases, the discussion just pursued its original course.
So,summary, I don't see a need for a function to block a member from a thread. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 08:11:58
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Thauramarth's position mirrors my own.
From my own perspective, it's often very difficult to single out just one scribe as a troublemaker. And when you start individually picking who can say what in which scroll, you're undermining the very process of the free exchange of discussion and debate. Sealing a scroll is never an easy choice for either myself or Wooly. And, often, we'll discuss what action to take between ourselves before we enact the dictates of the official CoC policy.
It's never an easy process, as I said. But I'd rather encourage passionate debate among individual scribes -- that may unintentionally lead to further intriguing discussion -- than curtail the potential for creative chatter that Candlekeep has become well-regarded for. If things get too difficult, or nasty... well, that's when a wholesale sealing of a scroll is warranted. It provides ALL scribes with an opportunity to step back, look at how they've participated in the existing discussion, and how they might want to consider how they can positively participate if and when the troublesome discussion is re-opened or brought up again elsewhere.
That's my view, anyway. Wooly may have a different perspective.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 08:49:47
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| I don't know what's so difficult in "determining" who the troll is/are in a particular thread. Tone and word choice is pretty much easy to judge. I for one can name the guilty in these threads: The Most Horri--- RSE and Telamont and the Simbul. These, of course, are just examples of the many. I don't want to start a conflagration, so I will avoid naming those people. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 10:44:58
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I'd say it depends on the situation.
If it is clear that a single person is disrupting a scroll, by all means, the aforementioned mod power would be a good thing. When it's not a single person but more, however, the entire scroll would get locked.
What say you, scribes? |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 11:18:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Thauramarth's position mirrors my own.
From my own perspective, it's often very difficult to single out just one scribe as a troublemaker. And when you start individually picking who can say what in which scroll, you're undermining the very process of the free exchange of discussion and debate. Sealing a scroll is never an easy choice for either myself or Wooly. And, often, we'll discuss what action to take between ourselves before we enact the dictates of the official CoC policy.
It's never an easy process, as I said. But I'd rather encourage passionate debate among individual scribes -- that may unintentionally lead to further intriguing discussion -- than curtail the potential for creative chatter that Candlekeep has become well-regarded for. If things get too difficult, or nasty... well, that's when a wholesale sealing of a scroll is warranted. It provides ALL scribes with an opportunity to step back, look at how they've participated in the existing discussion, and how they might want to consider how they can positively participate if and when the troublesome discussion is re-opened or brought up again elsewhere.
That's my view, anyway. Wooly may have a different perspective.
I agree. 
I dislike wearing the mod hat; it really messes up my hair! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 11:22:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
I'd say it depends on the situation.
If it is clear that a single person is disrupting a scroll, by all means, the aforementioned mod power would be a good thing. When it's not a single person but more, however, the entire scroll would get locked.
What say you, scribes?
I've no problem with that. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 14:58:41
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I've found (in general, not only at CK) that the mod-last-word and iron padlock tend to make the trollers back off. Not just the one or three active trollers, but everyone who's put in a quip. Those scrolls that still have merit tend to be reincarnated ... the OP usually says "continuing this topic from <this> locked scroll; not an argument about <this detail> but about <that detail> ..."
My experience is this generally works well enough. Particularly hostile trollers tend to get themselves sorted out quick enough. Non-hostile trollers (who may have only been ignited by a particular topic or individual) are generally more careful about what they say.
Pick your battles, of course. There's no need to attack every single statement that offends you, nor "prove" you are right and somebody/something else is wrong. CK doesn't provide an ignore/block filter, but it's simple enough to just write "I strongly disagree with <you>, our opinions differ, but I won't respond to your arguments" and leave it at that. People troll for the same reason that people go fishing, and they move elsewhere whenever they aren't getting any bites.
Don't badger the witless. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 06 Dec 2010 20:20:29 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 00:17:09
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Arik raises some worthwhile points, and I tend to agree with most of them.
My main concern with the notion brought up by dennis, is that considerate and respectable scribes who may simply have been unintentionally passionate about a particular subject, may grow disenchanted with being targeted by the same measures Wooly and I employ against troublesome and repeat offenders.
Every scribe has their "sacred beliefs" that they cherish fiercely when it comes to the Realmslore. I've been caught up in a few fiery debates myself. This is why I feel it's difficult to sometimes determine when blocking a specific scribe is warranted. Ultimately, as Moderators, we have to be very careful how we handle the thoughts and opinions of others.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 02:14:46
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| There are sealed scrolls where trolling is shared by many. And there those where it's done by a single scribe only. The former deserves the sealing. But the latter certainly doesn't. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 02:15:01
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
I don't know what's so difficult in "determining" who the troll is/are in a particular thread. Tone and word choice is pretty much easy to judge. I for one can name the guilty in these threads: The Most Horri--- RSE and Telamont and the Simbul. These, of course, are just examples of the many. I don't want to start a conflagration, so I will avoid naming those people.
Ha! That's hilarious!
You just walked in.....
Threw down an armload of tinder....
Poured gasoline all over , then refused to light it.
Are you 12? If not then
Name the names already(it's obvious you want to), and don't try so hard to be sly and get someone else to do it for you, when you sit back full of self- righteousness and then try to post something that is a pseudo-moderatorish imitation of something The Sage would say before you slip in another dagger aimed at prompting another response you can jump on or fain maturity when a moderator does step in. We've seen dozens of trolls like you roaming these halls and unfortunately you won't be the last. You just seem to be the most disingenuous with one hand trolling and the other trying moderating. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 02:19:02
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| I wonder what I've done to you, Red Walker? You name me "troll"? And yet you must be aware that your aforementioned comment is nothing but trollish. Such irony these days... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 02:24:48
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
I wonder what I've done to you, Red Walker? You name me "troll"? And yet you must be aware that your aforementioned comment is nothing but trollish. Such irony these days...
Nothing to me directly, plenty of trolling good scribes and apparently your damn good at it since I feel for you trolling as well.
Bad on me.
Good for you, your the best.
From now on this scribe had best stick to just asking questions of sages and authors!
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 02:35:30
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Okay, fellow scribes, I think we all need to take a step back for a moment, and reconsider how we want the contributions in this scroll to be regarded.
Obviously, tensions and nerves among some scribes are a little on edge, given recent developments and arguments that have arisen in the currently active "Elminster Must Die" discussion scroll. This is actually the kind of situation I was cautioning against earlier, with regard to scribes and their passions for particular elements of the Realmslore making it difficult for me or Wooly to adjudicate appropriate action.
So, at this point, I think it's best if we all just apologise, consider that we're likely all partly to blame [and I'll admit to some fault in this myself], and move on. The great community we have here at Candlekeep should be strong enough to endure through these kinds of situations. Or at least I hope that's the case.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 02:38:35
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| Understood, agreed, withdrawn. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 02:56:46
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Okay, fellow scribes, I think we all need to take a step back for a moment, and reconsider how we want the contributions in this scroll to be regarded.
Obviously, tensions and nerves among some scribes are a little on edge, given recent developments and arguments that have arisen in the currently active "Elminster Must Die" discussion scroll. This is actually the kind of situation I was cautioning against earlier, with regard to scribes and their passions for particular elements of the Realmslore making it difficult for me or Wooly to adjudicate appropriate action.
So, at this point, I think it's best if we all just apologise, consider that we're likely all partly to blame [and I'll admit to some fault in this myself], and move on. The great community we have here at Candlekeep should be strong enough to endure through these kinds of situations. Or at least I hope that's the case.
Last thing I want is to make you and Wooly's job harder. You have never heard me say the following.....I'm always for less moderator , big brother type stuff. But there have been a few scrolls in hind sight that have been left open too long imho. I think the temperatures got too high. I am not blaming the mods however, I wrote what i wrote. I was immidiately regretful of posting it, but I'm not the type to delete or alter a post after the fact.so i will let mine stand, unless removed and take a sabbatical from any scrolls where opinion/arguement is being bandied about!
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 02:58:57
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Okay, fellow scribes, I think we all need to take a step back for a moment, and reconsider how we want the contributions in this scroll to be regarded.
Obviously, tensions and nerves among some scribes are a little on edge, given recent developments and arguments that have arisen in the currently active "Elminster Must Die" discussion scroll. This is actually the kind of situation I was cautioning against earlier, with regard to scribes and their passions for particular elements of the Realmslore making it difficult for me or Wooly to adjudicate appropriate action.
So, at this point, I think it's best if we all just apologise, consider that we're likely all partly to blame [and I'll admit to some fault in this myself], and move on. The great community we have here at Candlekeep should be strong enough to endure through these kinds of situations. Or at least I hope that's the case.
Last thing I want is to make you and Wooly's job harder. You have never heard me say the following.....I'm always for less moderator , big brother type stuff. But there have been a few scrolls in hind sight that have been left open too long imho. I think the temperatures got too high. I am not blaming the mods however, I wrote what i wrote. I was immidiately regretful of posting it, but I'm not the type to delete or alter a post after the fact.so i will let mine stand, unless removed and take a sabbatical from any scrolls where opinion/arguement is being bandied about!
Lastly apologies to Dennis for said post!
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 03:04:39
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Apology accepted, Red.
Please take time to read my PM. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 03:12:19
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Apology accepted, Red.
Please take time to read my PM.
Yours accepted as well. And i am sure when all is said and done we will agree on more about the realms than we differ. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 03:13:57
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
[quote]Originally posted by dennis
Apology accepted, Red.
Please take time to read my PM.
Yours accepted as well. And i am sure when all is said and done we will agree on more about the realms than we differ.
P.S. And what this site really needs is for me to be able to reply to pms easily even thougn there are 20 in my inbox!  |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 03:16:19
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
And i am sure when all is said and done we will agree on more about the realms than we differ.
Indeed.  |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 03:17:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
P.S. And what this site really needs is for me to be able to reply to pms easily even thougn there are 20 in my inbox!
I've been thinking of writing up a feat for Sage-Time, actually. Just imagine how much you'll be able to get done once you qualify for it? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 04:01:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
P.S. And what this site really needs is for me to be able to reply to pms easily even thougn there are 20 in my inbox!
I've been thinking of writing up a feat for Sage-Time, actually. Just imagine how much you'll be able to get done once you qualify for it?
With Sage-Time when i am attempting a simple edit, I will I get three elusive triple post in stead of the doubles I just pulled off?
And how/when do I qualify...or is a matter of waiting for you to finish it |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 07 Dec 2010 04:02:38 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 21:33:04
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
And how/when do I qualify...or is a matter of waiting for you to finish it
Yep. It's on my "To-Do" list.
HA! I'll not hold my breath then as I've seen a snap of your list Here
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 22:49:44
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
And how/when do I qualify...or is a matter of waiting for you to finish it
Yep. It's on my "To-Do" list.
HA! I'll not hold my breath then as I've seen a snap of your list Here
Now, for accuracy, add a whole bunch more rooms like that... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 Dec 2010 22:50:00 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 00:37:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
And how/when do I qualify...or is a matter of waiting for you to finish it
Yep. It's on my "To-Do" list.
HA! I'll not hold my breath then as I've seen a snap of your list Here
Now, for accuracy, add a whole bunch more rooms like that...
Heh. That looks like my office on a good day. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Guilty and the Witness
