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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 10:30:14
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Eyeglasses, spectacles, monocles ... do these things really exist in the Realms?
Wikipedia's pages about glasses and optician's (among other sources) explain that magnification lenses were known in ancient times. Eyeglasses may have been in use in 12th century China (and the Chinese credit their invention to 11th century Arabia); corrective lenses certainly existed in early-Renaissance Italy. "Sunglasses" made of smoky quartz were available as well, and lensless "snow goggle" devices may have been in use by northern peoples (such as Inuit, Norse, Mongols) since about the Stone Age. The first optical microscopes and telescopes appeared in the early 17th century and the first scientific studies of "opticks" followed some decades later.
It seems to me that the classic Faerūn setting is roughly equivalent to Europe's Late Middle Ages, edging into early Renaissance; timejump Faerūn seems well into the middle Renaissance. I'm not as familiar with Al-Qadim and Kara-Tur, though it seems to me that they are a little "behind" their Earth counterparts (in terms of technology) because Faerūn tends to dominate center stage.
Magnifying lenses (of the hand-held variety) and spyglasses ("pirate"-style looking glasses or telescopes) are available in the 2E PHB, although they are costly items. Various magical lenses are available in the 2E DMG, though no real description is made of how they are actually used ... I've always assumed they must just be held or strapped in place against the eye.
I can easily imagine myopic wizards and sages having glasses. Or pretentious aristocracy affecting their ridiculous gold-rimmed spectacles and monocles. Or tinkery gnomes and Gondsmen wearing all sorts of bizarre magnifying contraptions.
Proper lens grinding requires some sophistication in tools, comparable to those of any other fine craftsman; I would think they'd be about as costly as an alchemist's labware. I also think that "opticks" would be a topic studied by erudite persons, especially when considering the immediate applications in prismatic spells, divination, and illusion magics.
As a person with fair eyes I can attest to the blinding harshness of bright sunlight. The land of California was oppressive and painful in this respect; without sunglasses I could hardly venture outdoors. Such eyewear would be immensely valuable to drow, orcs, and others with light-sensitive eyes.
Oddly, this is not a topic ever discussed much at Candlekeep, beyond some brief mention in these scrolls:
Albino in Faerun
On the Hathran and their Masks
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[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 26 Nov 2010 10:35:37
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 13:00:36
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I looked into this stuff for my Runelords campaign with the rune-lenses, there is one such shop in Sandpoint.
In the Al-Qadim main book there are two magical telescopes, one of fantastic, the other of true vision. And I remember from Ruined Kingdoms adventure, one city has a street of glassblowers who sell these things. In Zakhara, beside alchemy and maths, this science is popular. The Bedine of Anauroch have signal-glasses.
And I remember a family in Raven's Bluff that makes them. Gnomish inventory in Ormpe (Durpar) has made a device that helps the merchants against pirates.
Probably Lantan is the main centre, and the church of Helm (Monocle of Baghtalos). Tower of the Moon in Evermeet has a lookout system based on optics. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 14:00:49
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Do any character portraits in recent D&D show people wearing glasses?
I suppose warforged would need lenses of this sort. If you use them in your campaign. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 14:10:02
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I don't have my PDFs with me right now, but I have a vague recollection of glasses or lenses being included in Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue. I'll check that out tonight.
As far as monocles are concerned, there is a an artifact (described under 2E in the Book of Artifacts called the Monocle of Bagthalosis, which is tied to the cult of Helm, I think.
My view on it would be that if there are magical lenses, spectacles, monocles, etc., non-magical versions must surely exist. I'd have to go through my magical items list, but I remember Spectacles of True Seeing being one of Tasslehof Burrfoot's treasures in the Dragonlance stories. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 14:34:44
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| on the subject of glass, I remember "somewhere" in the original forgotten realms boxed set (yes, 1st edition) that they were talking specifically about glass and saying that it was a rarity not found often. I would think that basic, bulky flat panes (possibly with bubbles in them, and probably "colored") would be a common'ish thing to be able to find a crafter of such in large communities. Fine glasswork though without faults in it should be a lot harder to find. That being said, I wouldn't put it as so rare that people don't know about it, but I would believe that fine glasswork might be hard to find, except possibly in cultures where magic is secondary to technology (Lantan maybe, Amn maybe). Also, in cultures where illusioncraft is strong, glass working might be considered a high artform (such as Nimbral, maybe amongst some gnomes, and obviously amongst the avariel's that still possess the skill to make glassteel armor). Also, in cultures where alchemical experimentation would be appreciated on a large scale, I can see glasswork being more common (Thay, Halruaa, maybe Calimshan, maybe Silverymoon, Shade). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 14:52:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Do any character portraits in recent D&D show people wearing glasses?
I suppose warforged would need lenses of this sort. If you use them in your campaign.
I don't see that they'd necessarily need glasses. A glass orb or gemstone could easily serve as an eye. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 15:22:55
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| There are enough references to spectacles and eyeglasses to indicate that their crafting in urban centres is fairly widespread; they're given as 5-10 gp/pair in the FR1 Waterdeep and the North/City of Splendors price guide. I don't know who made them first, but Ed has said that "I think the majority (and the best) of spectacles, magnifying glasses, spyglasses, and other devices involving glass lenses in the Realms are made by gnomes." |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 00:16:42
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Wooly -
The (OP) wiki link claims that Nero watched gladiator games through an emerald. Various crystals and gems have all sorts of wonderful mystic properties pertaining to vision ...
Sage -
5-10GP seems a little inconsistent with previous books. Then again, that is Waterdeep.
Magnifying Glass: (2E PHB; 100GP, 0.1lb)
This simple lens is more an oddity than a useful tool. It does not greatly enhance viewing, especially since many are unevenly ground, creating distortion. It is useful as a substitute for tinder and steel when starting fires.
(PHBR2; this item may add +5% OL if the thief can use it to inspect the inner workings of a mechanical lock.)
(Magnifying lenses are required/reusable components in several spells, including Read Magic.)
Spyglass: (2E PHB; 1000GP, 1lb)
Like the magnifying glass, the spyglass is more of an oddity than a useful item. Objects viewed through it are a little closer, although not much. For better results, magical items are preferred. The spyglass gives from two to three times magnification.
[One of my players makes regular use of a Spyglass enchanted with Clauraudience.]
D&D also offers spells like Cure Blindness and Regeneration (2E PHB suggests prices of 500GP and 20,000GP+ for these). I suppose these expensive solutions would be somewhat equivalent to laser surgery.
There are also plenty of magical (even psionic) methods to augment or replace vision. Blind Seer and Blind Swordsman tropes are easily accomodated. There's also all sorts of magical eyepatches, even complete eyeballs (if you don't mind turning into a real son of a lich).
I recall the Earthdawn RPG (which I've only read a little) had visual "augments" ... like a little living wormy thing that bored into your eye; causing your normal vision to become milky and distorted, but allowing you to assense ("see" into the border Ethereal in D&D terms). Is there anything like that in canon D&D? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 27 Nov 2010 00:34:59 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 00:28:00
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Glass itself seems available in the Realms. At least in the form of blown bottles, lanterns, labware, potion bottles, and aristrocratic tablewares (though crystalware and Shou porcelain are more desirable).
The glazier skill is outlined in some book, maybe even the DMG, I can't recall. It allows one to handmake glass things, usually with great artistry.
Large flat planes (windows and mirrors) made of glass are probably not available. Incidentally, they are made today by pouring molten glass onto surfaces made of molten metals; that's how they get perfectly flat. Mirrors in the Realms seem to just be very polished chromy-silvery metals.
Even our ancient Egyptians practiced glassmaking. (Which, along with their sciences of ceramics and metallurgy, medicine, and embalming, formed the chemical basis of what later became known throughout Persia as the study of alkimia, subsequently bastardized into European alchemy.) |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 27 Nov 2010 01:25:10 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 01:30:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Sage -
5-10GP seems a little inconsistent with previous books. Then again, that is Waterdeep.
I don't see it as inconsistent as such. Given what Ed said in my post above, perhaps the 5-10GP price-tag reflects inferior spectacle-types. More expensive pieces could be the result of the finely crafted gnomish designs.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 01:30:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Glass itself seems available in the Realms. At least in the form of blown bottles, lanterns, labware, potion bottles, and aristrocratic tablewares (though crystalware and Shou porcelain are more desirable).
I'm thinking elves when it comes to high-quality glass and crystalware. So maybe they can source some [extraordinarily expensive] stuff from somewhere like Evereska.
Also, from Ed:-
quote:
[Glass is] common in some parts of the Realms, and rare as gold and gems in othersand in most places in the Realms, windows are leaded affairs of many small panes, not huge, rectangular unbroken panes. Moreover, most glass is shifty (full of bubbles and uneven thicknesses and whorls that distort reflections and vision through them). Shutters are the norm: full overlapping boards sealed with pitch in winter, and slats over which are tacked layers of gauze to keep out insects in the summer (if the dust gets bad, occupants wet down the gauze to impede it). The abodes of the poor will have shutters but lack glass at all, and some homes have frames around window-openings into which boards can be slid (and precious arrays of glass are taken out of storage and slide into place only on special occasions, such as royal visits, marriages, and the like).
...
In most parts of the Dales, drinking vessels are of carved wood, or soak-sealed leather, or ceramic, and a glass glass is regarded as an incredible luxury (why make a drinking-vessel out of something THAT breakable, when glass is so expensive etc. etc.?).
Mica is used in place of glass in some areas (where it can be easily found and mined), and certain dwarf and gnome clans know of ways to cut certain types of stone very thinly, to arrive at slate-like slabs that when set into window-frames admit light through (more or less as a glow), but arent transparent.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 01:55:40
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Gnomish spectacles and elven glass flutes? Window glass only brought out for special guests? Good stuff.
Our history of glass, metal, and ceramic technologies have always been linked to how hot we can make our furnaces. Dwarves must surely forge tons of glass? Or would they be disinclined towards wasting time with such a fragile material when a good chunk of properly sturdy stone would serve better? Intricately fine stonework (or crystal carved) chalices don't seem impossible, especially when tradition or occasion demands finery, but dwarves (in my mind) would generally prefer an unbreakable steel stein. Unless perhaps their grog corrodes metal. (Dwarves don't seem likely to cast much Glassteel, at least not until recent times.) |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 27 Nov 2010 01:57:11 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2016 : 10:21:06
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I find 5-10 gp eyeglasses a lot more reasonable than 1,000 gp spyglasses. In real history, not even the very first spyglasses would have commanded such huge prices and within a short time of introduction, they were priced at 1-10% of that, in comparison with the prices of other manufactured goods which required specialists skills to make, like weapons, armour or other glassware.
Given how relatively widespread glass objects are and how long lenscrafting has been around as a possibility in the Realms, I am unable to find any way for a spyglass with 2x or 3x magnification to cost more than sixty servicable swords, as much as ten mail shirts or as much as two whole laboratories for an alchemist.
A lenscrafter cannot command such an astronomically higher salary than an armourer or a glassblower, especially not when the product of his craft is not the only way to improve visual recognition range for military and naval purposes, as in our world, but simply the less effective non-magical way to do so.
Added to which, some D&D sources put the market price of the magical Eyes of the Eagle at 1,000 gp. If the non-magical and magical items that do they same thing, except that the magical one is more than an order of magnitude better, have the same cost, one would expect the non-magical object to be unsalable at that price. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2388 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2016 : 18:54:32
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Yeah, there's supply/demand (if the production is not enough for every captain who wants one) and there's quality, but "1,000 gp" is obviously the result of much the same line of "thinking" as infamous "ladder costs less than 2x 10' poles". 
Aurora to the rescue!
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Magnifying lenses (of the hand-held variety) and spyglasses ("pirate"-style looking glasses or telescopes) are available in the 2E PHB, although they are costly items. Various magical lenses are available in the 2E DMG, though no real description is made of how they are actually used ... I've always assumed they must just be held or strapped in place against the eye.
Down the years... It varies. Some are explicitly wearable contact lenses ("eyes" that come in pairs are this version... hopefully), some are tools like gem of true seeing or a common magnified glass.
quote:
Proper lens grinding requires some sophistication in tools, comparable to those of any other fine craftsman; I would think they'd be about as costly as an alchemist's labware. I also think that "opticks" would be a topic studied by erudite persons, especially when considering the immediate applications in prismatic spells, divination, and illusion magics.
And for those who don't want to deal with glass dust and/or fragility and have access to high magic solutions, there's also glassee.
Now, casting a good glass sphere in zero gravity with magic may be an option (then slice off the segments you like and smelt the rest).
Another way is centrifugal lens casting - it's only one stage more complex than telescope-grade mirror casting (as in, a positive lens needs a concave bed). And finding an alloy with melting point in the right range and without weird instabilities is not a big deal ("fancy alloy" metallurgy is quite developed on Faerūn) compared to a good method of blocking vibrations (tricky part, but magic allows more solutions - and silenced suspension mechanism may be enough).
The result isn't really spherical, but whether it's a bug or feature may depend on how you use it.
Spelljammer physics to the rescue: casting glass suspended in the gravity plane (of a vessel or asteroid < Class A) may or may not produce a good shape, but it's certainly worth testing. If yes, a portal or teleport circle link to one of Tears of Selune would help.
Casting a good glass sphere in zero gravity via magic may be an option (then cut the convenient segments and smelt the rest), and likely to be much more precise than anything else.
quote:
Such eyewear would be immensely valuable to drow, orcs, and others with light-sensitive eyes.
Should be easier than "eyes" giving the user infravision.
Drow certainly had protective glasses cropping up in various sources, including Spelljammer related (helmet of light-seeing). Presumably they prefer magical stuff, and quite possibly adaptive. They don't do that more often because usually depending on the faction they are supposed to either appear on the surface either only rarely to raid and do it at night, or all the time and then they adapt.
And, hilariously enough, elves (on Radiant Ship, to cancel continual light all over the place).
Illithids have "glaregoggles" - those leave only IR.
And in D&D3, even kobolds had sundark goggles.
Also, there were Eyeglasses of Sight (protect from low-level visual illusions and blindness from bright light). |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2016 : 19:01:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Do any character portraits in recent D&D show people wearing glasses?
I suppose warforged would need lenses of this sort. If you use them in your campaign.
Do you consider the Baldur's Gate PC games as canon?
One of the main character portraits has a gnome with tinkerers monocle/goggles.
Link: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/53/5b/8b/535b8b40b46adc6aef530d49f31a88f7.jpg |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2016 : 22:23:47
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| In one of Elaine's novels Arilyn had contacts that changed her eye-color. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Alexander Clark
Learned Scribe
106 Posts |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2016 : 16:44:52
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Amelior Amanitas, in the description of the Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast and in the boxed set The North: Guide to the Savage Frontier, is described this way:
"Tall, chunky, gray-bearded and bespectacled, Amelior is a bumbling, notoriously absent-minded eccentric."
EDIT: And his picture at the Volo's Guide shows his spectacles. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 21 Nov 2016 16:47:57 |
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Alexander Clark
Learned Scribe
106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2016 : 13:00:08
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I managed to get a monocle in Neverwinter.
Now I wonder what should I do with it?
I can give it to my wizard and roleplay it as some magical artifact with Detect Magic. Or I can use it on my Rogue and say it just helps him with lock picking and evaluating jewelry prices. :) |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2388 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2016 : 03:22:41
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There are also implanted... uh... various objects.
Gamalon's Eye: Gamalon's left eye was lost in a long-ago owlbear attack, and it has since been replaced with a massive emerald in his eye socket.
The gem operates as a gem of seeing and provides him with infravision and detect magic at will as well.
- Lands of Intrigue, Tethyr, p.86
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People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2016 : 07:37:44
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The cover of Complete Arcane depicts a Turmish wizard... with spectacles.
And thats official - either from a designer back when I was a regular over on the WotC forums, or from Ed himself - I forget which. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2016 : 19:21:36
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I can't tell you where or when, but I know this was discussed before LONG ago.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2016 : 01:08:48
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It was discussed here, lol, and in my OP links.
This scroll remained undisturbed for six years, but was recently reanimated. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Eyeglasses in the Realms?
