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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 14:23:03
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I like most of the RSEs. There are a few which I neither like nor dislike; they're too 'shallow' to grab my attention. And there's one which I totally despi---er, don't like: The Time of Troubles. I did try to forget it, but I was reminded of it recently in the thread “Best Books/Sources for Insights/Stories about Gods.” The depiction of the gods and their avatars (more like brabbling teenagers) is something no words are enough to describe.
So, fellow scribes, is there an RSE that you completely dislike and try your very best to forget (but fail to) because of its incomparable 'horribleness'?
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Every beginning has an end. |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 14:29:56
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| The Spellplague by far. I won't go into a rant, but I can live with all the RSEs that came before. I detest the Spellplague for what it is, what it did, and its legacy. |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 14:32:36
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| I'm torn 'in between' when it comes to the Spellplague. I hated some of its effects, but I've grown to like some, too. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 14:47:59
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I think we can rant, so long as we downplay it a little. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Acolyte Thirteen
Seeker
93 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 14:50:24
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I've thoroughly enjoyed all the RSE's. Ofc, ToT was pretty bad, *but*, that's what the gods of Faerun are like! Grasping little children/monsters with no moral compass besides their own quests for gratification! |
Edited by - Acolyte Thirteen on 09 Nov 2010 14:55:20 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 15:48:06
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| The spellplague for sure, but mostly because of its culling of the rich diversity of FR gods. |
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Acolyte Thirteen
Seeker
93 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 15:58:58
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If a deity is not listed in FRCG, has that deity been culled from the Realms??
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
The spellplague for sure, but mostly because of its culling of the rich diversity of FR gods.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 16:01:05
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One would inevitably presume. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 16:18:42
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The Fall of Netheril - it should never have happened. Karsus should be a GOD!!!
Seriously though, I'm ok with all of them. A few tweaks here and there to make them better perhaps, but overall, none that I hate. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 16:37:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
The Fall of Netheril - it should never have happened. Karsus should be a GOD!!!
I don't want him to be a god. But it would have been great had he survived and his empire. Destroying an entire empire, which is so powerful no sane folk would dare challenge, is nothing but a sick joke. After reading the second book of the Netheril trilogy, I did hope to see more than half of the empire survive in the next book. But no, they never did (save a very, very few). And the first thing that I said (mentally) after reading the trilogy's conclusion is "Seriously?" |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 16:53:51
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| You know, really, for me - the Spellplague isn't horrible in and of itself. It's the time jump. If the Spellplague happened in 1385, and 4E was in 1388, I think it would be so much easier to swallow. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 16:57:58
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For me, it was not that difficult to swallow. And I care not about the time jump. 'Tis just one of the cliches in the realm of Fantasy. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 21:47:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
You know, really, for me - the Spellplague isn't horrible in and of itself. It's the time jump. If the Spellplague happened in 1385, and 4E was in 1388, I think it would be so much easier to swallow.
I was about to write the Spellplague, but Rhewtani said it best here. The Spellplague itself was fair enough as far as RSE's go, and people would have probably dealt with it in a far milder manner if the time jump werent in the picture. So to answer your question, i did not really mind any of them. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 21:59:11
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There is no such thing as a bad RSE. What there is are bad implementations of the core idea behind them. Either the lore falls short (continuity-breaking or even lackluster), or they happen too close together to be believable and don't even leave any noticeable lasting affects (see 'continuity-breaking' again).
It's a fantasy world, true, but even fantasies need their core logic. Without it, the whole thing falls apart. The stronger the believability-factor, the stronger the fanbase, with any IP.
Which is a double-edged sword for the guys who work for the company that owns the IP. A strong fanbase means that the IP is valuable, but also filled with people who half-the-time know more about the setting then some writers do.
The above opinion is of ALL IPs, not just FR or D&D, so don't take it as any sort of attack (those days are over, hopefully). Doesn't matter if it's Star Wars, or Star Trek - a 'rabid fanboi' is a grognard at the end of the day.
EDIT: Ack! I forgot to even answer the OP. 
If I had to choose, I would say it was the Dragon Rage - I blinked and missed it. An RSE where nothing comes of the event is far worse then one where stupid results occur (like some weakling, backstabbing little runt of a thief becomes a powerful god). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Nov 2010 22:04:25 |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 22:05:09
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| Spellplague and the resulting time jump both do it for me, I came into the Realms after the Time of Troubles so I don't mind it as much. |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 22:10:51
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| the return of shade to toril.not the idea but the horrible trilogy that arose from it. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 23:56:57
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But we've had LOTS of Dracorages over the years. One more is just a snore-fest.
True, this happened during the setting, as opposed to just being history, but it wasn't really that big event (in either its non-uniqueness, or its aftermath). You can read about the very first Rage of dragons in the Realms of the Elves anthology, in the first short-story (Traitors).
Anyway, I'm not trying to argue it wasn't any good - this thread is highly subjective. - I just wanted to explain the reason why I feel this way. I know nothing about that event or those novels, and yet that 'hole' in my knowledge does not adversely affect my posting on so many subjects here (which to me, indicates how completely meaningless it was). By way of example - I GREATLY dislike (standard) Elves, but found I had to force myself to go back and learn all of their history, because it is SO relevant to so much of the setting. I've never found the need to learn about FR's dragons - I still haven't read the 3e's Dragons of Faerûn, despite owning it. There was one section I had to read because it had a lot to do with Calimshan (and slightly with Halaster's Harvestide), but other then that one example, I have not found any need to learn more. Dragons, like the Giants, impact FR's history very little, all things considered.
Compare that to Eberron or Krynn's Draconic history, or FR's Elven history.
And seriously, what was impacted by that non-RSE? Was anything destroyed that wasn't put back up a day later (setting-wise)? I'm seriously asking, because I know so little, and from my PoV it doesn't look like much.
On Topic:
I might have to change my vote thanks to idilippy. The Spellplague I had considered, but I've warmed up to it. However, I hadn't considered the century time-jump an RSE! (technically, its not)
So I now present you with the FSE - "Fan-Shaking Event'. 
FSE's by far blow-away any RSE they can come up with. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Nov 2010 00:00:42 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 00:04:53
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| I can't really say I find any RSE "horrible" as such. "Pointless," maybe, or "Hard To Justify" perhaps. But not horrible. And though I've never really adopted any of these events for my Realms [simply because my own internal history would need to be rewritten in order to accommodate the changes that have come about because of most of the RSE's], I have liked reading about some of them. The Rage, for instance. The evocative imagery of such destruction and mayhem is not something I can easily banish from my mind. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 00:41:09
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Mostly true, MT, but this one was the worst ever since they began. It's not a case of "just one more", but of the ULTIMATE dragon Rage, that could become permanent, and cover every dragon on Faerun. The idea was that they were growing steadily worse with each Rage, and affecting more dragons. This one had affected ALL of them- not just mainly chromatics as before, (who were more suceptible by nature) but ANYTHING with dragon blood! Even Fairy dragons and the like were being affected by it this time. There was one in the series, and it was actually sort of hilarious, IMO, because he was trying to help the party find a "cure" while trying to stave of the effects himself! An enraged mini-dragon with butterfly wings?! Sounds funny, but it was pratty darn serious to them. And it is strongly connected to that story in Realms of the Elves. The dragons of FR were mostly important in the early hitory, before the elven empires, even- just as that story showed. It was important because it was the elves who CAUSED the Rages. Naturally.
It really got downplayed a lot outside the novels, but this one threatened to become permanent, and anyone who is familiar with Krynn's dragon flights would realize how serious that is. Hundreds of dragons all going berserk at once, eating, burning, freezing, etc anything in their paths- not a pretty prospect. The only reason it wasn't worse than it was, is because it was averted relatively quickly, before it could take full effect. And yes, there WAS a lot of destruction, particularly in the areas where the trilogy took place. But the Rage encompassed the entire world, even as far as Kharatur, so it's not like it was just a localized thing. The other major aspect of the threat was that the Cult of the Dragon was going around offering lichdom to any chromatic who wanted to avoid the Rage, becuse only undead dragons were immune. They were heralding it as the beginning of their prophesied rule of dracoliches. Which could have brought about a tremendous change in the Realms in its own right... To really get a good idea of how severe it was, you'd have to read the series. I loved it, especially since one of the main characters was in fact a song dragon in human form- who was allied with a dragon-slayer who hated ALL dragons. So you really get a personal view of the scope, and how bad it could have been if not for the party involved. As RSE's go, I think it was actually MORE of a calamity than the unraveling of magic. Much more death and destruction involved, and not just for mages, but for anyone. All those enraged wyrms destroying the landscape and anything in it, could have spelled disaster for the entire Realms, rather than just creating a few places of warped or dead magic like the Spellplague did.
I tend to agree with the Sage. Spellplague seemed pretty pointless to me. Why was there a need to kill of Mystra?! Was it just to bring in the "core" god of magic? Or just for another RSE? She's been killed twice alreay- she should have been left alone! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 00:47:48
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The Spellplague is the RSE I hate the most. I'll avoid that particular rant... (The time-jump, on the other hand, is just a minor quibble for me.)
I thought Lolth's Silence was an utterly pointless RSE -- so much so that I didn't bother to read the Lady Penitent books. My drow pantheon is unchanged.
I liked the Rogue Dragons, but it all felt too localized to me. I didn't feel like there was enough Realms being shaken for a true RSE.
The Return of Shade had so much potential... And in my mind, it didn't even come close to the neighborhood of that potential, much less live up to its promise! |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 01:18:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Return of Shade had so much potential... And in my mind, it didn't even come close to the neighborhood of that potential, much less live up to its promise!
Agreed. I can't say I was expecting too much from the Return of Shade, because such concepts of "ancient evils returning to plague the fair land" are tried and true methods of story-telling in most genres. But at the same time, I was hopeful that Shade's return would be entirely more complicated and, perhaps, not as "rapid" as we've seen in the associated fiction. |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 01:31:41
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I agree that Lolth's Silence did seem silly after all was said and done, but At least I liked some of the characters.
I'm also going to say that the Lady Penitent books were about the worst thing that happened to my "happy Realms bubble." I could not under any circumstances deal with 4e Realms after that had happened. I could figure my way around the Spellplague and the time jump was manifestly silly, but I did not see a redeeming factor to the events of LP in the slightest. It keeps coming back to bite me, too.
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Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
Edited by - Lady Fellshot on 10 Nov 2010 01:33:20 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 02:49:19
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Oh, I hadn't considered the drow pantheon's destruction as a RSE, but if so that would be up there with the Spellplague for me. I liked the drow having a non-good, non-Lolth god in Vhaeraun to follow, and the whole redeemed or not redeemed thing at the end had my head spinning. So suddenly half the race is "redeemed" by being turned apparently into normal elves, but are still stuck in the Underdark without any of the innate abilities that made them drow unless I missed something at the end of the last book. Also, what happens to the other half of the race, are they locked in as irredeemable by birth now or what?
That whole RSE just disappointed me, except for Ghaunadaur getting revealed as an ancient and powerful being, I thought it deserved to be more than an afterthought tossed into the Drow pantheon. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 03:27:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If I had to choose, I would say it was the Dragon Rage - I blinked and missed it. An RSE where nothing comes of the event is far worse then one where stupid results occur (like some weakling, backstabbing little runt of a thief becomes a powerful god).
I don't consider it horrible because I couldn't care about it. Dragons rampaging the lands? Wow, that's real original. As if we haven't seen enough of it in the novels. To that RSE I can only say what the Pit Lord (non-FR) often says: “You fail to amuse me.”
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I thought Lolth's Silence was an utterly pointless RSE -- so much so that I didn't bother to read the Lady Penitent books. My drow pantheon is unchanged.
Pointless perhaps. But luckily for me, I got past that idea. Thanks to the characters, I managed to enjoy the books. So maybe any RSE wouldn't be that horrible had there been something that could act as its 'saving factor.' In the case of the ToT, I can think absolutely of NIL!
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Return of Shade had so much potential... And in my mind, it didn't even come close to the neighborhood of that potential, much less live up to its promise!
What promise is that? They literally shook the realms – melted the High Ice; put Waterdeep, Evareska, and Cormyr in turmoil; completely annihilated Tilverton; made Anauroch fertile once again; controlled the Cult of the Dragon without even the help of some necromantic amulets; eliminated several Zhentarim; stopped the Shadowstorm (and therefore declared that they weren't really 'Shar's puppies' as most Faerunians thought they were); and have recently conquered Sembia with almost nary an effort. These are accomplishments no other evil group had ever managed to do, nor came close to achieving. One may say the changes they brought are rather 'too fast.' But let's remember that although in terms of 'screen time,' or exposure, they are kinda new to the Realms, in actuality they're not. They'd lived in the Demiplane of Shadow for millennia, plotting for their Return, carefully orchestrating the changes they wanted done as soon as they returned to the Prime. The implementation of such changes was drastic and fast, but that's thanks to the luxury of spending centuries perfecting their plans, and their rather 'unique' form of magic that most folks, their enemies, couldn't begin to fathom at first, much less counter without severe repercussion. I like their Return for these reasons.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 03:40:18
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I thought Lolth's Silence was an utterly pointless RSE -- so much so that I didn't bother to read the Lady Penitent books. My drow pantheon is unchanged.
Pointless perhaps. But luckily for me, I got past that idea. Thanks to the characters, I managed to enjoy the books. So maybe any RSE wouldn't be that horrible had there been something that could act as its 'saving factor.' In the case of the ToT, I can think absolutely of NIL!
See, I didn't like the characters, either, except for Pharaun. And with the characterization shifting from book to book, it made for a disjointed reading experience. A disjointed tale about characters I didn't like, seeking a goal I didn't care about. Meh.
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Return of Shade had so much potential... And in my mind, it didn't even come close to the neighborhood of that potential, much less live up to its promise!
What promise is that?
Pretty sure that we've had this discussion before... But in short, I expected something other than "ancient enemy comes out of nowhere and proceeds to beat the crap out of all comers, despite logic indicating otherwise." I rather expected, among other things, that their return would explain, at least in part, some of the many changes to the Realms wrought by the 3E changeover. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 03:44:13
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| The Return of the Archwizards is second to the Spellplague for me. Mostly because, with all the complaining of Mary Sue's in the Realms, the Shades feel like they were thought up to be "Anti-Mary Sues". The Legion of Doom to the "so-called" Justice League of Chosen. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
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The Most Horri--- RSE
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