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Lily M Green
Learned Scribe
Australia
115 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 15:09:25
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Forgive me if there is a really obvious answer to this question. I've had a search of the forums, an nosey at the compendium and a general google and I can't seem to locate a full list of musical instruments available to the bards and musicians of The Realms. Does such a beast exist, if so where would I find it? I did notice a list of songs.
Similarly is there a guide to food and drink (I spotted a drinks one in the compendium section I believe). I guess what I am looking for is what you could describe a minutiae of the Realms guide.
Thank you, dears!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 15:51:00
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I can confidently say I've got the closest thing to a "complete" list of Realms musical instruments sitting in my archives.
I've spent the better part of the last ten years compiling most of the more relevant musical-related Realmslore from practically every published source. So it's more than likely that my listing is as comprehensive as it can be... for the moment.
I can probably make that listing available to you, if you're interested. Please note, however, that it's largely composed in my own devised short-hand, so I will either have to translate it for you, or send you my handy translation guide. 
Otherwise, I'll just direct you to the brief listings of musical instruments featured in all editions of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting tomes, and Ed Greenwood's "Music in the Realms" article in DRAGON #124, which references several musical instruments used throughout the Realms.
...
As for a "food and drink" listing... I'm also fairly certain I've got previously composed lists buried deep in my archives somewhere. I'll take a look. |
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Edited by - The Sage on 03 Oct 2010 15:52:04 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 16:04:47
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You need to track down a copy of Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog. While I do have mixed thoughts on the idea of a in-game catalog company with Realms-wide outlets and magical shipping and receiving, the catalog still provides a wonderful selection of goods of all types available in the Realms -- including a bard's section, with over two dozen musical instruments listed.
It's a book that I consider essential to role-playing within the Realms, for players and DMs alike. And most of the rules content in the book is nothing more than modifiers listed in footnotes, so it can easily be tweaked for any ruleset. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 16:32:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You need to track down a copy of Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog. While I do have mixed thoughts on the idea of a in-game catalog company with Realms-wide outlets and magical shipping and receiving, the catalog still provides a wonderful selection of goods of all types available in the Realms -- including a bard's section, with over two dozen musical instruments listed.
I'll just note that I didn't specifically mention this source because those instruments -- along with a few extra details from Ed -- have been included in my listing. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 16:45:41
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You need to track down a copy of Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog. While I do have mixed thoughts on the idea of a in-game catalog company with Realms-wide outlets and magical shipping and receiving, the catalog still provides a wonderful selection of goods of all types available in the Realms -- including a bard's section, with over two dozen musical instruments listed.
I'll just note that I didn't specifically mention this source because those instruments -- along with a few extra details from Ed -- have been included in my listing.
I was going for what was more readily available, and what could be obtained quicker.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 17:47:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I was going for what was more readily available, and what could be obtained quicker.
True... especially with respect for my reputation. On the other hand... there's a reason why the Catalog is considered a hard-to-obtain source in some places. Thus, my list would be a much easier resource to access -- even when you take into account the effects of SageTime.  |
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Lily M Green
Learned Scribe
Australia
115 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 18:44:32
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Great stuff! Thanks Sage & Wooly. Let's just say the Catalog (catalogue) has already found it's way into my (virtually) grubby mitts and very useful 'tis too. It answers my initial question but if you feel so inclined, Sage, I would be very interested to see your list. Likewise for the food and drink one but only if it's not a whole load of hassle.
Cheers. |
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
A Dark Alliance - Beyond Baldur's Gate |
Edited by - Lily M Green on 03 Oct 2010 18:54:48 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Lily M Green
Learned Scribe
Australia
115 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 21:36:34
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It was a download, but given that its origins were somewhat dubious in nature *ahem* and I'm unsure as the whether there is an official source I won't linky (Lest I incur the wrath of the mods).
*Tries to look innocent*
*Fails* |
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 01:53:30
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The Catalog is not available anywhere as a legal download. We will, therefore, ask that no one who has a pdf shares it, and that no one who has a link to a pdf shares it.
There's a print copy on eBay right now for $20. I've gotten it from eBay for less than that, as well. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 02:49:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Lily M Green
Great stuff! Thanks Sage & Wooly. Let's just say the Catalog (catalogue) has already found it's way into my (virtually) grubby mitts and very useful 'tis too. It answers my initial question but if you feel so inclined, Sage, I would be very interested to see your list. Likewise for the food and drink one but only if it's not a whole load of hassle.
Cheers.
It's never a hassle to share my wealth of lore... it's simply a matter of not letting the spectre of SageTime loom over my efforts to assist. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 02:50:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Sage, dear, I don't suppose you'd be inclined to post that somewhere on the site for the rest of us bard-lovers?
Aye. Since this discussion has generated some interest, I've now copied the Sage-ShortHand [that just doesn't sound or look right] file and taken it to work with me, so I can translate it into an appreciable format my fellow scribes can eventually enjoy. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 02:51:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Aye, aye, Cap'n! Well, that sucks.... Any chance it will ever be made available?
I wouldn't think so. Since the entire prospect of 2e D&D downloads is now entering into "speculative legal territory," I would find it highly unlikely that any of the old OOP sources would ever find their way toward being converted into legal PDF downloads. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 03:30:22
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To the first: Ah, bless you, Goodman! Ya know, have ye ever thought of using a bit o' parsley and rosemary to counteract the Sage Time? (Yes, I went there, lol!! Simon and Garfunkle are face-palming right now...)
To the second: That's really too bad. I'd love to see Wot/bro release more of this sort of thing for those who still want to use it but never had the chance first time around. I'd pay a buck to get it... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 03:39:45
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Sage, dear, I don't suppose you'd be inclined to post that somewhere on the site for the rest of us bard-lovers?
Aye. Since this discussion has generated some interest, I've now copied the Sage-ShortHand [that just doesn't sound or look right] file and taken it to work with me, so I can translate it into an appreciable format my fellow scribes can eventually enjoy.
Emphasis on "eventually"! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 03:49:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
To the first: Ah, bless you, Goodman! Ya know, have ye ever thought of using a bit o' parsley and rosemary to counteract the Sage Time? (Yes, I went there, lol!! Simon and Garfunkle are face-palming right now...)
I appreciate the suggestion... but I'll note that the Sage and rosemary just don't mix.
quote:
To the second: That's really too bad. I'd love to see Wot/bro release more of this sort of thing for those who still want to use it but never had the chance first time around. I'd pay a buck to get it...
As it is, I don't recall an actual reason being given for why the Catalog wasn't previously adapted for official PDF treatment, like most other 2e FR sources. It might simply have been a case of being somewhat more difficult to convert, like some other sources from that era [I distinctly recall several instances of the Catalyst Game Labs conversion team finding it hard to convert a number of old BattleTech products to PDF because of usual imagery and/or content]. And the Catalog has plenty of what I'd deem "unusual" content in the way of graphics and text. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 04:00:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Aye, aye, Cap'n! Well, that sucks.... Any chance it will ever be made available?
I wouldn't think so. Since the entire prospect of 2e D&D downloads is now entering into "speculative legal territory," I would find it highly unlikely that any of the old OOP sources would ever find their way toward being converted into legal PDF downloads.
Indeed. There's still some stuff available on the WotC website, but they've taken down (or moved to some obscure place) the page that had all the links.
When WotC decided to pull down all of the for-sale pdfs that were available at that time (and the list was extensive!), they were very thorough about it. One of the nice things about downloading pdfs from Paizo was that those pdfs were always available for you to download them again at a later date -- but WotC's action forced Paizo to have to remove downloads that had been legally paid for. This is one of many things that failed to endear WotC to me.
At the time, WotC did make a statement that "We do not have any plans to resume the sale of PDFs, but are actively exploring other options for the digital distribution of our content – including older editions. We understand that digital content is important to our customers." And that was the last we heard of it.
Considering that we've not heard anything since then, that it wouldn't be easy to convert hundreds of pdfs to some other format, and the fact that WotC has had numerous layoffs since then, I'm inclined to think that making that content available once more isn't even in sight of their back burner. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 04 Oct 2010 04:01:36 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 05:27:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
So, basically, we all got SCREEWWWED!!! Darn, and I never even felt it... I'll keep hunting for it on-line, 20$ seems a bit steep, though.
The original price tag was $15. And if you keep an eye out, you'll surely find it for cheaper. Sites like NobleKnight.com often have a good selection for a reasonable price. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 06:39:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
So, basically, we all got SCREEWWWED!!! Darn, and I never even felt it... I'll keep hunting for it on-line, 20$ seems a bit steep, though.
The original price tag was $15. And if you keep an eye out, you'll surely find it for cheaper. Sites like NobleKnight.com often have a good selection for a reasonable price.
I've seen a second-hand copy pop up on dragontrove.com as well, for around $20 US. Might want to keep an eye out there also. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 09:04:32
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
As it is, I don't recall an actual reason being given for why the Catalog wasn't previously adapted for official PDF treatment, like most other 2e FR sources. It might simply have been a case of being somewhat more difficult to convert, like some other sources from that era [I distinctly recall several instances of the Catalyst Game Labs conversion team finding it hard to convert a number of old BattleTech products to PDF because of usual imagery and/or content]. And the Catalog has plenty of what I'd deem "unusual" content in the way of graphics and text.
Being the possessor of a, ahem, questionably acquired PDF version of the Catalog that seems to have been converted properly (text is all text, etc.), it doesn't seem that it was by any means impossible to convert, though I suppose it could have been more recently.
Still, old PDF's are great -- I have almost all of them, and while it's a shame WotC hasn't allowed the old sourcebooks to be circulated by any legal means, "sharing" amongst fellow fans doesn't seem like too bad of an alternative (though the few that WotC have for download on their website [for free, it could be noted] are very nice). |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 11:11:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
Still, old PDF's are great -- I have almost all of them, and while it's a shame WotC hasn't allowed the old sourcebooks to be circulated by any legal means, "sharing" amongst fellow fans doesn't seem like too bad of an alternative (though the few that WotC have for download on their website [for free, it could be noted] are very nice).
Except for the fact that it's illegal and explicitly forbidden in the Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 11:31:29
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| Indeed. Public exchanges and sharing of copyrighted sources is against Forum policy. So while I can appreciate your eagerness to share the lost lore Sandro, we really need to keep the best interests of the Wizards legal-team in mind during such matters. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - The Sage on 04 Oct 2010 11:32:24 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 15:27:33
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"the best interests of the Wizards legal-team"? 
We baking cookies for Hasbro's lawyers now? 
Sorry, couldn't resist.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I've spent the better part of the last ten years compiling most of the more relevant musical-related Realmslore from practically every published source. So it's more than likely that my listing is as comprehensive as it can be... for the moment.
Have you included the khuur?quote:
Originally printed in Horselords, by David Cook, pg.119
A Kaychi, a singer of stories, was sitting cross-legged near the fire. He was a young man, smooth-faced with rounded features, and a carefully groomed mustache and goatee. Across his lap lay a small, two-stringed violin, his khuur.
No further info on how it is played (is the man 'at-rest' in that scene?) The kaychi is obviously a Tuigan Bard, and the 'well-groomed' part makes him a bit unusual for a Tuigan. Mustaches are common among many tribes, but the goatee is fairly uncommon (Tuigan prefer to go clean-shaven, to the point of scaring their cheeks so as not to ever grow hair there). Although there is no mention of any magical abilities, he is definitely a 'learned man' and therefor would be lumped-into the same cultural group as Wizards, Seers, and Shamans.
Further....quote:
Originally printed in Horselords, by David Cook, pg.125
Drifting through the night came the wail of a band of musicians, the scraping notes of the khuur and rhythmic rattle of a yak-hide drum. A singer suddenly added to the cacophony, wailing in the two-voice style peculiar to the steppe. Somehow the man produced both a low, nasal drone and a high-pitched chant at the same time.
It goes on to say that Tuigan music is an acquired taste. Not sure if the strange ability of the kaychi to sing in two voices is paranormal, or just some extremely difficult skill to master (along the lines of ventriloquism).
The Yak-Hide drums are fairly common, and are also used to give signals in war (that part is covered in Dragonwall).
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 16:03:40
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| Oh yes, Markus, that's all been included -- as well as some tidbits from David Cook that I nabbed from the old FR Mailing List when I was first compiling my list. |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 22:36:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Indeed. Public exchanges and sharing of copyrighted sources is against Forum policy. So while I can appreciate your eagerness to share the lost lore Sandro, we really need to keep the best interests of the Wizards legal-team in mind during such matters.
Mm, 'tis obviously not in the best interests of the forum to go thumbing its nose at Wizards and their lackeys, and never meant to insinuate that we should start such a practice.
At the end of the day, it's just a shame that such a great quantity of lore is now unavailable to new fans of the setting. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 00:48:47
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| Oh, I knew what you were talking about. I apologise if I implied otherwise. My message was really for the sake of the entire lot of scribes here at Candlekeep -- to remind them of where this site stands on such legal issues. |
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 02:53:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Oh, I knew what you were talking about. I apologise if I implied otherwise. My message was really for the sake of the entire lot of scribes here at Candlekeep -- to remind them of where this site stands on such legal issues.
Firmly on the Lawful-Good side  |
Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Musical Instruments
