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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Sep 2010 : 21:03:31
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Hello.. Just a quick question.
I was reading about this guy, who is like tremendously powerful. But I was thinking if anyone could inform me about how powerful. Is he like Manshoon powerful, Larloch powerful or Srinshee powerful, or is he something even more than that.
Im trying to understand exactly what he is!
Thanks
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2010 : 21:32:33
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| The Terraseer is actually one of the Kings of Oreme, which means he's a thirty five thousand + year old sarrukh lich. Officially, he's statted out as a wizard 25, with a CR of around 40, but considering how long he's been around, and that he was one of the ones to write the Nether Scrolls, I'd say he's even more powerful than that. Definitely Larloch's league or better. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2010 : 21:58:33
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Looking for something new to go after, Nicolai? 
Yeah, I would say he is Larloch-epic, at least. As in "Game stats could never do him justice" epic. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2010 : 21:41:06
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he he... no I was not looking for a new bad guy to test my mage against. Was simple thingking about how loco one would have to be to actually write the nether scrolls... And since he has seen and experienced so many things in his life/unlife... he must have some sick powers. Im thinking that he could rival anyone out there. Ad least mortal that is...
If he is the last legacy of the creator races, he should have some truenaming powers, or worse... just a thought!
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2010 : 23:01:48
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| And he can rouse the other 59 Liches nearly in an instant if it were necessary. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 00:46:03
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Don't forget, though, that the lich kings of Oreme go dormant for long periods of time. So even though he may be 35,000 + yrs old, he has been asleep for most of that time. Collectively, his waking hours might number much less than the time that Larloch has been alive, even though Larloch is chronologically much younger. That could explain the lower stat level. Although, I agree he is probably under-statted.
Has anyone conjectured that he is (or at least was at one time) a chosen of Mystryl/Mystra? Though never really stated, the Ba'etith seem to be linked to Mystryl/Mystra. Members of the Ba'etith may serve a function similar to the Magister and Mystra's chosen, promulgating magic. I strongly suspect that Hsssthak and/or the Terraseer/Arthindol ARE chosen of Mystryl, or ancient equivalents of the Magister. |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 02:58:21
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| Not to mention he is a freaking sarrukh, and can very likely just become Pun-pun. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 04:00:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Don't forget, though, that the lich kings of Oreme go dormant for long periods of time. So even though he may be 35,000 + yrs old, he has been asleep for most of that time. Collectively, his waking hours might number much less than the time that Larloch has been alive, even though Larloch is chronologically much younger. That could explain the lower stat level. Although, I agree he is probably under-statted.
Has anyone conjectured that he is (or at least was at one time) a chosen of Mystryl/Mystra? Though never really stated, the Ba'etith seem to be linked to Mystryl/Mystra. Members of the Ba'etith may serve a function similar to the Magister and Mystra's chosen, promulgating magic. I strongly suspect that Hsssthak and/or the Terraseer/Arthindol ARE chosen of Mystryl, or ancient equivalents of the Magister.
That's an interesting theory... Hasn't Ed confirmed that there is a still-active Chosen of Mystryl? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 04:33:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Don't forget, though, that the lich kings of Oreme go dormant for long periods of time. So even though he may be 35,000 + yrs old, he has been asleep for most of that time. Collectively, his waking hours might number much less than the time that Larloch has been alive, even though Larloch is chronologically much younger. That could explain the lower stat level. Although, I agree he is probably under-statted.
Has anyone conjectured that he is (or at least was at one time) a chosen of Mystryl/Mystra? Though never really stated, the Ba'etith seem to be linked to Mystryl/Mystra. Members of the Ba'etith may serve a function similar to the Magister and Mystra's chosen, promulgating magic. I strongly suspect that Hsssthak and/or the Terraseer/Arthindol ARE chosen of Mystryl, or ancient equivalents of the Magister.
That's an interesting theory... Hasn't Ed confirmed that there is a still-active Chosen of Mystryl?
Sort of. While there is no "current" lore that states exactly what Mystryl's Chosen would be like, THO [acting in Ed's stead], back in December 2005, had this to say:-
" ... you tread into darkly perilous ground, approaching (gasp) a secret of the Realms that has been sitting in plain sight for lo these many years, just waiting for a brilliant scribe to pounce upon.
Heh-heh. Which is a grand way of saying Ed won't answer you directly. You'll have to wait (for some time) for a rather more public answer.
Heh heh heh.
love,
THO" |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 04:55:27
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GAH! It drives me freaking nuts with these nonclosure crap. Why is that? Other then to make more money? Just a "Ha ha! We got plenty of lore for your fave setting that we'll never ever tell you! Take that fans!"
Yeah, I get that DM's can choose what they want for it, but I still like learning lore. But then you get plenty of questions, that you should be able to learn, but they shake their finger and go "Nope! Not for you! Never telling!" With a smartass smirk on their face, that they get to have that secret knowledge and never share. It's sickening. Like some sort of power play, or special club where some people get to know more then others just cause hey, they can and the masses aren't allowed. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 05:23:04
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Don't forget, though, that the lich kings of Oreme go dormant for long periods of time. So even though he may be 35,000 + yrs old, he has been asleep for most of that time. Collectively, his waking hours might number much less than the time that Larloch has been alive, even though Larloch is chronologically much younger. That could explain the lower stat level. Although, I agree he is probably under-statted.
Has anyone conjectured that he is (or at least was at one time) a chosen of Mystryl/Mystra? Though never really stated, the Ba'etith seem to be linked to Mystryl/Mystra. Members of the Ba'etith may serve a function similar to the Magister and Mystra's chosen, promulgating magic. I strongly suspect that Hsssthak and/or the Terraseer/Arthindol ARE chosen of Mystryl, or ancient equivalents of the Magister.
That's an interesting theory... Hasn't Ed confirmed that there is a still-active Chosen of Mystryl?
Sort of. While there is no "current" lore that states exactly what Mystryl's Chosen would be like, THO [acting in Ed's stead], back in December 2005, had this to say:-
" ... you tread into darkly perilous ground, approaching (gasp) a secret of the Realms that has been sitting in plain sight for lo these many years, just waiting for a brilliant scribe to pounce upon.
Heh-heh. Which is a grand way of saying Ed won't answer you directly. You'll have to wait (for some time) for a rather more public answer.
Heh heh heh.
love,
THO"
Well, Hsssthak is some early Realmslore...  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 08:35:42
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Actually I'd prefer if the Terraseer remained a mystery, like in 2e.
Probably the sarrukh dreams are not a waste of time, what if they are conscious and lucid, used for arcane experimentation, then you could say they ''lived'' much longer than thirty thousand years.
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 08:47:09
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I have been thinking about this since Eric Boyd's Mintiper's Chapbook series of articles on the WotC site http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/mc/mc20010829a
He mentions in Chapter 9 that "It is unclear how the three scrolls made their way into the Hall of Mists after they were stolen from the Netherese, just as it is unclear how two other scrolls made their way into the Tomb of Hsssthak beneath the sands of Anauroch, when Hsssthak was presumably entombed before the rise of Netheril. Perhaps the thief deliberately scattered the stolen set of Nether Scrolls amidst various ruins of the Iqua'Tel'Quessir? If so, was the motivation to hide them from the Netherese or to encourage the Netherese to seek out places of power dating back to the Creator Races?" And that got me to thinking. Don't Elminster and the Seven Sister also hide mystical artifacts and magical knowledge in various out of the way places for intrepid, aspiring mages to find?
The Nether Scrolls were placed where the Netherese could find them. It seems clear that the Ba'etith wanted to promulgate magical knowledge, not keep all their discoveries secret. That sounds very much like an agent of Mystryl/Mystra.
Not to mention that the Nether Scrolls contained the cumulative magical knowledge of the Sarukh, the Aearee, and the Batrachi. Races that dominated at separate times over thousands of years. The Ba'etith operated transgenerationally, and transracially to accumulate magical knowledge and pass it forward. That is a very forward thinking and generous act. They didn't want to keep their knowledge secret for their own purposes and for the advancement of their own race, they wanted to pass down that knowledge and "uplift" younger races to magical greatness. I imagine that Mystryl was the driving force behind the Ba'etith.
Here's a thought: Maybe the Ba'etith are still around. Maybe the Magisters are in the Ba'etith. Maybe Elminster, Halaster, the Seven Sisters, perhaps even Larloch are all in the Ba'etith.
The Ba'etith are like magical masons. Or Illuminati. Secretly perpetuating magical knowledge to this day.
In fact, they may have even survived the Spellplague. They may have helped humankind rediscover the secrets of working raw magic into spells without the aid of the Weave. And because of that, humans had rediscovered and recreated all the principles of a powerful magic system in less than a hundred years. Perhaps without that help, magic users in a post-spellplague world would still be trying to invent the magical wheel and learn to make magical fire--basic stuff, rather than the advanced state of learning where they are currently at.
Mystra may be dead, but perhaps the Ba'etith still live on. The surviving members may even be looking for new recruits to replenish their numbers (after a lot of them exploded or went insane). Which could definitely be a fun hook for a campaign if your party's spellcaster started to get cryptic notes or an invite to meet with a mysterious mage. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 19:12:44
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Larloch is obviously the last Chosen of Mystryl - I figured that out awhile ago (unless I'm wrong of course, but everything points to it, and he did exist BEFORE Mystra). He seems 'exempt' form interference from the Chosen, as if he has some 'greater calling'.
The 'in plain site' comment of Ed's almost makes it a given - the Sarrukh and creator races was not part of Ed's original (although he may have had something similar), and certainly not there 'since the beginning'.
As to how power Larloch is - Szass Tam was cowed by him, and Szass Tam threatens gods. Tam is obviously far more frightened of Larloch then he is of Bane (which means Larloch is probably the FR version of Vecna, and could pwn Bane).
And as to how powerful the Terraseer truly is... something had to chase the Sojourner off-world the first time. 
I would guess that if Arthindol is a Chosen (or something approximating one), it would be to a now-defunct saurian god of magic. I could think of a couple of primordial powers lurking around the realms that could fit the bill. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Sep 2010 19:21:35 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 19:47:46
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Am I to believe that the Sojourner was the most powerful creature to live? Or do you mean that Athindol was more powerful? Im lost?
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 20:59:16
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| And who was the Sojourner? The name's vaguely familiar, but I can't bring it to mind at the moment. What's the source? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 21:47:37
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Sojourner is a 10,000 year old mage/psion, of the race that was before Githyanki and githzeri.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Vhostym |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 00:43:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Larloch is obviously the last Chosen of Mystryl - I figured that out awhile ago (unless I'm wrong of course, but everything points to it, and he did exist BEFORE Mystra). He seems 'exempt' form interference from the Chosen, as if he has some 'greater calling'.
But in "Tears So White" he considered it a grand kindness to be shown silver fire, and the Sisters discussed how it could blow thru all his defenses and kill him. So that indicates to me that he is not a Chosen. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 00:45:52
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| Ah, but do we know if Mystryl's Chosen had access to Silver Fire? Or was it created when Mystryl became Mystra? |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
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Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 01:24:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Larloch is obviously the last Chosen of Mystryl - I figured that out awhile ago (unless I'm wrong of course, but everything points to it, and he did exist BEFORE Mystra). He seems 'exempt' form interference from the Chosen, as if he has some 'greater calling'.
But in "Tears So White" he considered it a grand kindness to be shown silver fire, and the Sisters discussed how it could blow thru all his defenses and kill him. So that indicates to me that he is not a Chosen.
It could go either way, really. If nothing else, this *could* potentially be a further hint [as Ed has suggested in the past] that Larloch, while being in some way attached to Mystra, is still something other than a Chosen. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 02:27:35
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
[quote]Originally posted by Markustay
Larloch is obviously the last Chosen of Mystryl - I figured that out awhile ago (unless I'm wrong of course, but everything points to it, and he did exist BEFORE Mystra). He seems 'exempt' form interference from the Chosen, as if he has some 'greater calling'.
But in "Tears So White" he considered it a grand kindness to be shown silver fire, and the Sisters discussed how it could blow thru all his defenses and kill him. So that indicates to me that he is not a Chosen.
It could go either way, really. If nothing else, this *could* potentially be a further hint [as Ed has suggested in the past] that Larloch, whIile being in some way attached to Mystra, is still something other than a Chosen.
I think that Larloch is far and away , above , beyond and outside the constraints of being a "chosen" or any other. Label that has been revealed by Ed. If it were as simple as that, there wouldn't really be am need for all the tap dancing around his "status" by Ed whenever he is queried about Larloch.
The only thing that makes sense to me is some sort of " Jergel-like" scernario, I could see him as the original god of Magic and or original form of Azuth's divinity and surrendering it for personal reason and forever held in Mystra/mystral's good graces and having a very special relationship with and responsibilities to her. kind of a , sure I'll relieve you of this burden, but at a price! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 02:54:22
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Ahhhh, but Larloch is a Lich, and in Ed's original vision the weave = life (although it wasn't called 'the weave' - it was field of energy that permeated everything in Ed's world, almost like 'the force'). So even if Mystryl's Chosen could have Silver fire, I doubt his un-living state could contain it.
As an aside, i think 'Blue Fire' is pure weave energy, and 'Silver Fire' is what is granted directly by Mystra. The difference being that it passes through her consciousness and changes somehow; perhaps the human element in her persona acts as a catalyst. Maybe it adds a 'radiant' element into the mix.
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Am I to believe that the Sojourner was the most powerful creature to live? Or do you mean that Athindol was more powerful? Im lost?
It was a joke, but my point was that the Sojourner was INSANELY powerful, and yet, I think the Terraseer could have kicked his arse.
Nothing canon, of course - it just makes me smile to think such things.
If Gray is listening (I see him pop-up from time to time), what would be your call for the Sauroid god of magic? Probably the original, and probably the one Arthindol would have answwered to (be he a chosen or not).
Of course, there could have been an even earlier set of oozoid deities dating from a time before the creator races rose. Then again, I would assume those would have been 4e's (Abeir) primordials - creatures of a more 'elemental' nature. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 04:18:51
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So answer me this... If he's a Chosen... Why is he undead? Wouldn't some divine assistance make a nice alternative to continuing to wander about while decomposing?
And if he's a Chosen, then why would the power of his deity's successor be enough to utterly destroy him?
I'm willing to put money on Larloch not being a Chosen. He's got some unique relationship with Mystra, but he's not a Chosen. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 05:02:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So answer me this... If he's a Chosen... Why is he undead? Wouldn't some divine assistance make a nice alternative to continuing to wander about while decomposing?
And if he's a Chosen, then why would the power of his deity's successor be enough to utterly destroy him?
I'm willing to put money on Larloch not being a Chosen. He's got some unique relationship with Mystra, but he's not a Chosen.
You know, it's funny, but thinking further about this [while waiting for programs to compile at work], I started considering Larloch's advanced age when compared to the other Chosen of Mystra.
Theory time:- Perhaps Larloch is a First-Generation Chosen -- a kind of pre-cursor to the current Chosen-model [and Second-Generation versions] that was eventually granted to Elminster, Storm, Khelben, and the rest. Maybe Larloch's reliance on undeath was the ONLY way he could maintain his essence and power at that time, long before the Lady of Mysteries perfected the method of safely ensuring her power could allow for the kind of divinely-inspired immortality that the Second-Generation Chosen now enjoy.
Larloch could, theoretically, represent an earlier version of the Chosen -- which satisfies the long-debated point of just what his relationship is with Mystra and, also, why the events of "Tears So White" had such an impact upon him. |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 07:42:37
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| I don't know if Larloch is a "chosen" or not. But I don't think his lichness (lichiness? lichousness? lichiosity?) would make a difference. Velsharoon was a lich when he ascended to godhood and assumed dominion over the school of necromancy, wasn't he? Also, Larloch could have been made a chosen after he became a lich (that is, if he was indeed made a chosen). |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 08:10:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I don't know if Larloch is a "chosen" or not. But I don't think his lichness (lichiness? lichousness? lichiosity?) would make a difference. Velsharoon was a lich when he ascended to godhood and assumed dominion over the school of necromancy, wasn't he? Also, Larloch could have been made a chosen after he became a lich (that is, if he was indeed made a chosen).
As I recall, the ritual that saw Velsharoon rise to the status of a demipower necessitated his acceptance of lichdom. In other words, he wasn't a lich until he was turned to undeath during the process of carrying out the dictates of the Talos ritual. It was the "first step," or somesuch. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 08:21:14
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Actually I'd prefer if the Terraseer remained a mystery, like in 2e.
Probably the sarrukh dreams are not a waste of time, what if they are conscious and lucid, used for arcane experimentation, then you could say they ''lived'' much longer than thirty thousand years.
Interesting. I've never thought of it quite that way. I've conceived the sleep as a method for preventing a growing degree of insanity invading the surviving liches — experiencing and contemplating eternity can lead a mortal being to madness.
Yes, why not both. Another possibility is that the liches hibernate cause they predicted something in the future, it's all that matters to them..
Larloch's lichdom would be a way to deal with Mystra's madness, becoming cold and unemotional, and his evil alignment is cause of his ruthlessness. I'm not sure if it helped Sammaster. Otherwise if Larloch is ''uber'' why did he not choose some more exciting state to live in, look what happened to Shoon, is Larloch a coward? |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 19:02:54
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Well... Larloch is something speccial! I think he somehow became either a helper of Mystryl or some kind of police man for Mystra after the cataclysm! I think that he might have been given the duty of surwaying Fearun, so that another Karsus' Avartar will not happen! This might be a too obvious idea, but maybe it does not have to be more difivult answer to what he is! Sometimes one can over analyse things!
Arthidol does have some strange aura about him. Why give such knowledge and power to the humans? For his own enjoyment? I think not?
Perhaps some where on the Tablets of Fate is is written that humans shall have the last word! Maybe both the names Larloch and Arthindol have always excisted!
AO works in mysteriors ways!
Only one truely knows and he wont tell.. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2010 : 09:41:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Perhaps some where on is written that humans shall have the last word!
That reminds me of that elven prophecy about the end of the world, says that humans will decide which side wins. It's somewhere on Candlekeep I think. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2010 : 13:51:24
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I think he somehow became either a helper of Mystryl or some kind of police man for Mystra after the cataclysm!
Larloch's on Krynn, too?
I think Nicolai is referring to the "Great Folly of Karsus."
...
Though, Larloch on Krynn is an intriguing prospect.  |
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Terraseer
