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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 08:59:17
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Again well said Markus. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 14:20:06
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I've been doing what Markus is saying since I started really DM'ing back in 2005. I've never let something supposedly "setting specific" ruin any attemps to incorporate that concept into my Realms games.
I figured alot of people did this without any fuss. Why this is a strange, new concept is beyond me. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 21:28:48
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I was in both camps for quite some time. Coming from lore-lite Greyhawk, I was used to placing whatever I want, wherever I wanted, and it didn't really affect anything else in regards to GH canon.
With the Realms, that wasn't so easy. Toward the beginning it probably was - those 1e sourcebooks and maps are very vague - but as the setting became more detailed, folks had to start making 'hard choices'.
So as a Realms-fan, I was one of the strongest advocates of 'continuity-first!', but as DM (coming from GH), I found at times the immense amount of previous lore was a bit hand-tying. This is why I separated my Realms from the canon realms almost from the beginning, and considered it an 'alternate reality' right from the start (as ALL D&D FR campaigns are - none of them are truly 'canon'). You can run a reasonable facsimile of the canon-realms, but you can never truly run in THE canon realms (because the moment you did anything that did not appear in some sourcebook or novel, it was no longer the canon setting). The idea is that people need to realize this - that their world was never 'THE Realms' - it was an alternate reality that they were playing in, that was as similar, or as different, as the DM cared to make it (and toward the end mine was pretty damn different).
That doesn't mean we 'disrespected' the Realms - "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".
So YES, the idea that you could use 'anything, anywhere' was always there, built right into D&D (for instance, Ed's articles in Dragon that came-out long before his official setting did), but as more and more settings became available, people started forming into 'camps' (fandom can be an ebil thing, at times), which didn't do anything for the hobby.
I think what the designers tried to do with 4e is recapture that old-school approach, where nothing was 'set in stone' (Grognards be damned!), and people could just get-together for a few hours of fun... without 90% of that time spent on arguing weather they are 'playing right'.
Despite my own somewhat obsessive fanboi-ism of the Realms, I could never understand that: How people can think there is a 'wrong way' to have fun. If your DM says that Drizzt Do'Urden is frothing at the mouth and attacking you with a meat-cleaver, guess what? Thats EXACTLY how Drizzt behaves in HIS (or her) version of the Realms. If Elminster is some crazy old coot in Shadowdale who enjoys performing obscene puppet shows in the public square, then THAT IS WHAT HE IS.
RULE ZERO - learn it, live it. We have empowered Rules-lawyers and novel-nazis for far too long. Unfortunately, the setting we fell in love with had to be deconstructed to remove that wrongful approach to D&D... and most of those people didn't even play the damn game.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Nov 2010 21:30:48 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 22:15:44
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Well said, MT. My thoughts nearly exactly.
And:
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If Elminster is some crazy old coot in Shadowdale who enjoys performing obscene puppet shows in the public square, then THAT IS WHAT HE IS.
Yes, and if you want to do something NOT canonical, that's fine too. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 05:18:41
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even domains forming in Ravenloft hasn't had an impact on the original worlds, other than a major NPC suddenly not being around.
Actually, that's not always entirely true. We've noted references, mostly in RAVENLOFT lore, which suggest that the removal of some of the specific regions of other worlds, often leave black, misty, and featureless voids on the origin worlds, where the removed land once existed. The removed portion of territory is, itself, then shifted into the Dread Realms, where it is shaped into a Dark Domain.
Has this ever happened to one of the published D&D settings, though?
Yes, in DRAGONLANCE... mainly focusing on the details surrounding Soth's disappearance and the impact it had upon his abode of Dargaard Keep.
RAVENLOFT lore also suggests that "misty voids" occurred in the Realms, too, just after the removal of lands and/or NPCs from Toril. Though, I don't actually recall any instance of this being mentioned directly in the Realmslore.
Just finding this scroll now... and it's also happened in the Realms (see the Castle Spulzeer FR/RL crossover adventure duology). I'm not sure that the former site of Castle Spulzeer in the Realms resembles the terrain described by The Sage, but it's the same kind of situation otherwise. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 05:57:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Just finding this scroll now... and it's also happened in the Realms (see the Castle Spulzeer FR/RL crossover adventure duology). I'm not sure that the former site of Castle Spulzeer in the Realms resembles the terrain described by The Sage, but it's the same kind of situation otherwise.
Yeah, I remember that one as well. But, as I said above, there really hasn't been any specific noted examples elsewhere in the Realmslore. But given the intimate connections between the various TSR worlds back in 2e, I'm inclined to believe that such info as published for RAVENLOFT, was largely true for the Realms as well.
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The Abyssalplague!
