| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 02:24:15
|
Does anyone know where I can get sources on possibly a map of this city? I doubt it exists so I'll ask for the second part.
Any and all info on Heliogabalus. I am aware of several products and novels, but I need more detail. Specifically, would Ed be able to share anything on pre-Spellplague Heliogabalus?
|
|
|
Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
|
|
Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 15:18:27
|
| Was there one in the Bloodstone Lands book??? Or one of the 4 expensive adventures>?? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
 |
|
|
coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 17:00:47
|
INFO:
c. Heliogabalus is the capital of the country Damara and the barony also [population 44,111] (FRCS p107) (FR9 p7,11,27) (RoF p89) (H3 p9) (RotD p131) (RotP)
i. Founded in 1075 (RoF p89)
ii. Heliogabalus is a city of independent merchants (FR9 p11,27)
iii. 1 gold piece toll to enter city for each person, 1% tariff on trade goods (H3 p9)
iv. It is an expensive city in every respect (H3 p9)
v. Pricing in Heliogabalus (H3 p9)
vi. Palace-tower of Ilnezhara, northeast of the city (PotWK p22) (RotD p143-155) (RotP p44) tower is south of her sister’s cabin (RotP p44)
vii. Piter’s Bakery (PotWK p41) (RotP p63,67) Secret entry into underdark used by agents of Bregan D’Aerthe [three large ovens in kitchen, the one on the far left is the secret entrance] (RotP p67)
viii. North Gate (PotWK p41) (RotP p127) massive portcullis and iron gates, always open
xix. The Wall Way [cobblestone street that runs the inner length of the city’s wall] (RotD p131) (RotP p41,76)
x. Wall’s Around [cul-de-sac connected to Wall Way] (RotD p131) (RotP p41,72,76) has large, three-tiered fountain in middle of cul-de-sac (RotP p72)
x. Mercantile District (RotD p131)
xi. Towering Outer Wall (RotD p131)
xii. Tazmikella’s Bag of Silver [trinket shop] (RotD p132) (RotP p41,72) located in Wall’s Around, across street from Ilnezhara’s Gold Coins (RotP p41) sells mostly items made of silver, candlesticks, paperweights, jewelry, decorations (RotP p41)
xiii. Ilnezhara’s Gold Coins [collector’s shop] (RotD p134) (RotP p41,72) located in Wall’s Around, across street from Tazmikella’s Bag of Silver (RotP p41) sells luxury collector’s items and gifts (RotP p41)
xiv. Temple of the Dawn [Lathander] (Rite p225)
xv. Description of the Court and the Palace of King Gareth (Rite p224-230)
xvi. Boot and Whistle [empty festhall/tavern] (Rite p253)
xvii. Tazmikella lives in unremarkable cabin on pine-encircled hillock outside of city wall – north of her sister’s palace-tower (RotP p41-42)
xviii. Wall surrounding city is torchlit (RotP p42)
xix. Boar’s Snout [tavern] (RotP p63) barkeep is Griney, known for their honey mead (RotP p63)
179. Griney [barkeep of the Boar’s Snout in Heliogabalus] (RotP p63)
2. Main center of trade is Heliogabalus (FRCS p107)
a. Influenced by powerful, independent council of merchant guilds, Heliogabalus is seat of trade in Damara (FR9 p11) (FRCS p107)
b. Supplies all of Damara with foreign goods (FRCS p107)
c. “End-of-the-road” for foreign merchants (FRCS p107)
d. Heliogabalus has kiosks that sell goods as well as stores in the mercantile district (RotD p131)
e. Heliogabalus has a one gold piece toll to enter city gates for each person and a 1% tariff on all trade goods that enter the city (H3 p9)
f. It is an expensive city in every respect (H3 p9)
g. Pricing in Heliogabalus (H3 p9)
h. Types of shops in Heliogabalus: “dozens of”: chandlers, cobblers, blacksmiths, weavers, tailors, wheelwrights, importers, bakers, and other craftsmen of every available stripe (RotP p72)
i. Many merchants located in the cul-de-sac called Wall’s Around (RotP p72)
2. Heliogabalus is the capital [population 44,111] (FRCS p106,107)
a. 5100 dwarves live in the capital [craftsmen] (FR11 p61) (FR9 p20)
23. Lathander (Rage p19,21,61,224-226)
a. Temple of the Dawn [Heliogabalus] (Rite p225) (Rage p218)
b. Extensive library (Rage p218)
1075 – Damara became a kingdom, with the founding of Heliogabalus by Feldrin Bloodfeathers (RoF p89)
|
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
Edited by - coach on 28 Apr 2010 17:12:50 |
|
|
|
coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 17:03:42
|
OWNERS of the TWO SHOPS mention last post:
21. Ilnezhara [female great wyrm copper dragon] (PotWK p21-25,135-137,210,334) (RotD p140-144,148-155,157-160) (DoF p150) (RotP p41-42)
a. Sister of Tazmikella (PotWK p22)
b. Owns Ilnezhara’s Gold Coins [fine gift shop in Heliogabalus] located across street from Tazmikella’s Bag of Silver (RotP p41,72)
c. Poses as beautiful human female with rich copper hued hair and extravagant clothing and jewelry, travels in an exquisitely decorated coach (RotP p41)
d. Not allowed to appear in true form in presence of humans in the Bloodstone Lands – by order of King Gareth – so as not to scare the populace (RotP p86)
e. Trades with Bregan D’Aerthe (RotP p282,287)
22. Tazmikella [female great wyrm copper dragon] (PotWK p23-25,135- 137,210,334) (RotD p138-144,155-160) (DoF p156) (RotP p41-42)
a. Sister of Ilnezhara (PotWK p22)
b. Owns Tazmikella’s Bag of Silver [trinket shop in Heliogabalus] (RotP p41) located across street from Ilnezhara’s Gold Coins (RotP p41)
c. Poses as a practical, no-nonsense, no-frills human female merchant with graying hair (RotP p41)
d. Not allowed to appear in true form in presence of humans in the Bloodstone Lands – by order of King Gareth – so as not to scare the populace (RotP p86)
e. Trades with Bregan D’Aerthe (RotP p282,287)
|
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
|
|
|
Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 17:04:26
|
| For the record, Ed didn't design Damara. It was grafted onto the Realms and was designed by Bob Salvatore. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
|
|
|
coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 17:04:42
|
THIEVES GUILD in Helio
45. Tightpurse [thieves’ guild based in Heliogabalus] (FR9 p25,48,58) (PotWK p49,50)
a. Connections with Dimian Ree (FR9 p25,48,58)
b. Led by Tarkos Ree, Dimian’s cousin (FR9 p48,53,58)
c. Underground guild’s defensive structure has withstood all attacks and sabotage for more than two centuries (FR9 p53)
d. Been around longer than the Kingdom of Damara itself (FR9 p58)
e. Number of guild members estimated at several hundred (FR9 p58)
f. Has branches in every major Damaran city except Bloodstone Village (FR9 p58)
g. Every Damaran town and village has at least one guild scout (FR9 p58)
h. Allied with the Citadel of Assassins (FR9 p54,58)
46. Tarkos Ree [rogue 24] (FR9 p53)
a. Guildmaster of Tightpurse thieves’ guild in Heliogabalus (FR9 p53)
b. Cousin of Dimian Ree (FR9 p53)
c. Pragmatic, businesslike demeanor (FR9 p53)
|
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
Edited by - coach on 28 Apr 2010 17:05:58 |
|
|
|
coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 17:09:13
|
WEATHER
31. Fog is common in Heliogabalus at onset of Winter or whenever temperatures vary greatly from day to night (RotP p121) |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
|
|
|
coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 17:13:45
|
MAP:
try the non-canon maps from the Northern Journey Project, found here at candlekeep |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 18:26:47
|
Coach, why did I know you would share your vast knowledge of this area.
Awesome stuff man! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 28 Apr 2010 18:28:39 |
|
|
|
coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 18:40:16
|
thanks Brim
wish i had time to convert all of it from outline to unofficial sourcebook format, maybe this summer LOL - but Markus was gonna me my cartographer and now he is MIA :(
|
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
|
|
|
coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 18:41:09
|
i forgot:
16. Dimian Ree [rogue 11] (FR9 p6,11,16,48) (RotP p31-32162-166)
a. Pays lip-service to Ilmater but not a true follower (FR9 p48)
b. Baron of Morov (FR9 p11,48)
c. Allied with Citadel of Assassins and Tightpurse (FR9 p48) (RotP p31)
d. Consummate, self-serving politician (RotP p32)
he resides in Helio |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 18:46:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by coach
thanks Brim
wish i had time to convert all of it from outline to unofficial sourcebook format, maybe this summer LOL - but Markus was gonna me my cartographer and now he is MIA :(
Maybe Rob(I refuse to call another man handsome! ) would do the map.
I would like to 'hear' from Markus my self. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
|
|
|
Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 02:10:25
|
Sweet info, thanks Coach! This will help me
Yeah I wish MarkusTay would come back. I hope nothing awful has happened? 
So I am confused. Is Dimian Ree still a baron of Morov and has been unseated as ruler of Heliogabalus since Gareth's coronation? I always thought he had supporters from a few other baronies and was against Gareth, even using military might?
Or did Gareth finally take over all of Damara, but has kept Dimian as baron but they now fight with each other politically? |
|
|
|
Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 23:36:15
|
| Checked out Northern Journey and that is some awesome work. That map of Heliogabalus is pretty sweet. I'll be making heavy use of it. |
|
|
|
Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 18:46:38
|
| Why is is it named Heliogabalus, cause of Lathander? |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 01:32:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Why is is it named Heliogabalus, cause of Lathander?
I don't think that particular connection has ever been made in the Realmslore. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 17:02:09
|
I know, just speculating.
Maybe it's cause of St. Sollars and St. Dionysus, they are also somewhat related to the sun, for different reasons. Add Lathander/Ilmater to all that you almost get Jesus in the Realms.
Another oddity is that Damara is supposed to be a place with slavic names, yet all the places/people except Morov/Pavel aren't even close.
|
|
|
|
Lakeland
Acolyte
Poland
1 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2011 : 23:13:43
|
Hi coach, Im new here and lost you on this post...
could you please decipher the sources you quote on?
wth is PoTWK, h3, FR9 and others... is there any place in here with the list of these abbreviations?
Thanks alot! |
www.wojciechmazur.pl |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2011 : 03:53:23
|
quote:
Why is is it named Heliogabalus, cause of Lathander?
Like Sage, I'm unaware of any Realms-related reason for this name. I'm only familiar with the name as it occurs in Gilbert & Sullivan opera lyrics, although wikipedia sources claim these lyrics refer to an ancient manly pagan sun-mountain god named Elagabulous worshipped by Syrian cultures, and more specifically, to a Syrian-born Roman emperor known by the same name (as well as his "unspeakably disgusting life", sexual perversions, gross excesses, and generally eccentric decadence) whose persistent attempts to install this sun god into the state pantheon (above even venerated Jupiter and Sol Invictus) met with dismal failure.
I'm not sure whether Heliogabalus-in-Damara is at all related to the summarized backstory I offered above. A Realms adaptation of these historical, political, national, ethnic, and religious facts could fathom a lot more depth into this sparsely detailed region. Yes, it could be easily adapted to somehow involve Lathander (although Amaunator might be more fitting with the city's preeminent past glories). I don't mind the idea of mixing and modifying pagan beings to shape local expectations; a sort of (once powerful but now forgotten) Amaunator-Grumbar-Moradin hybrid god (or uber-planar/djinn creature or whatever), venerated patron of the city/capital, would be perfectly fine in my games. Some people find my notion of challenging divine canon distasteful, so plain vanilla Lathander (with or without any involvement/alliance of other deities) would still work out well enough.
Then again, it might be as simple as Heliogabalus being a catchy and pretentiously archaic sounding word. Rephrasing things in dead Latin has the marvelous effect of making even a grocer's bill seem like an imperial Roman rescript, and to my mind dwarven names tend toward impressive braggadocio and reverence of traditional (ie: old) things ... "Heliogabalus" seems quite perfect. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 19 Aug 2011 04:21:42 |
|
|
|
Thieran
Learned Scribe
Germany
293 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2011 : 10:03:51
|
Arik, I wondered about the same thing when I first read about the city, having known about the Roman emperor (don't believe all of the bad press about him), but I just thought it's the same rather unoriginal adaptation of a Roman name on Salvatore's part as in, for instance, "Cassius", the name of the spokesman of Bryn Shander in Icewind Dale (or rather, one of the leading conspirators against Julius Caesar).
Lakeland, I think I know the abbreviations:
Sourcebooks:
FRCS = Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
RoF = Races of Faerűn
H3 = The Bloodstone Wars
FR9 = The Bloodstone Lands
FR11 = Dwarves Deep
Novels:
RotP = Road of the Patriarch
PotWK = Promise of the Witch King
Rage = The Rage [Year of Rogue Dragons Trilogy Book 1]
Rite = The Rite [Year of Rogue Dragons Trilogy Book 2]
I am not sure about RotD, but it should be the "Realms of the Dragons" anthology. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2011 : 19:48:25
|
The Realms are already home to Marco Volo, DaRoni, Khahan, Vongoethe, and many other individuals modelled after those originating in Earth's fact and fiction. I think there's plenty of room for King Azoun and his Crusades, Cassius of Icewind Dale, a god and a dwarven king both named Heliogabalus.
My own Realms campaign has featured the undead warlord-tyrant Necroleon Bonsaparte, the Sembian philosopher-nobleman (and lightning mage) Voltaire, a gnomish alchemist known as "Red" Scheele, Sir Asic Norton the arrogantly brilliant dwarven polymath, Gilligan the Turquoise Blade, Yasic Yasimov the reknowned clockwork golem maker, a phenomenal paladin of Lathander named Dawn Quixocci, Cambion Faust (and Johann and Georg, the cornugon and kyton bound to his service), and many other laughably shameless names.
Of course many other people have been named Cassius. There's pages of them in my phone book. One of my fellow nerds was nicknamed Casio, after his calculator. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 19 Aug 2011 20:01:43 |
|
|
|
Thieran
Learned Scribe
Germany
293 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 10:28:20
|
Surely, but the name would never have become popular without that one famous Cassius...
Footnote: Casio is only the anglicised version of the - Japanese! - company's founder's surname Kashio... ;) |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 14:07:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by Thieran
Surely, but the name would never have become popular without that one famous Cassius...
I dunno... That Cassius was a traitor. I don't see people thinking "Oh, hey, let's name our kid after this traitor!" I think the name has popularity despite its most noteworthy bearer.
If it was popular to name your kids after traitors, we'd have a lot more kids named Judas or Benedict (Note for non-US scribes: Benedict Arnold was a US Revolutionary commander who tried to hand West Point to the Brits, and is thoroughly reviled for that.). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 15:38:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If it was popular to name your kids after traitors, we'd have a lot more kids named Judas or Benedict (Note for non-US scribes: Benedict Arnold was a US Revolutionary commander who tried to hand West Point to the Brits, and is thoroughly reviled for that.).
That happens to be one of the most "loved" names here in the Philippines---and not because we love traitors.
Heliogabalus intrigues me...I'll look into it. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2011 : 16:27:23
|
| I've seen a documentary series about four crazy Roman emperors, Caligula, Nero, Commodus and Heliogabalus. Turns out it was all lies written by their enemies |
z455t |
|
|
|
Thieran
Learned Scribe
Germany
293 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2011 : 16:52:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Thieran
Surely, but the name would never have become popular without that one famous Cassius...
I dunno... That Cassius was a traitor. I don't see people thinking "Oh, hey, let's name our kid after this traitor!" I think the name has popularity despite its most noteworthy bearer.
If it was popular to name your kids after traitors, we'd have a lot more kids named Judas or Benedict (Note for non-US scribes: Benedict Arnold was a US Revolutionary commander who tried to hand West Point to the Brits, and is thoroughly reviled for that.).
I have never claimed that "Cassius" is a common name (Arik did that), just that the tradition of naming someone "Cassius" (fictional or not) ultimately goes back to the famous "Cassius" known from ancient literary sources (intentionally or not).
But even if it were or had been a common first name in post-antique times: Cassius is an ambiguous figure: He would nothave been viewed as a traitor by everyone; actually, for many - those embracing the value of freedom from tyranny - he was a hero of liberty. This applies to how ancient Romans and, more importantly in our context, how post-antique people, who knew about him from ancient literature, viewed him. Some, like Dante, counted him as a traitor, others as a hero of the "free" Roman Republic - as opposed to the Roman empire, which could be seen as "autocratic".
quote:
Originally posted by Kno
I've seen a documentary series about four crazy Roman emperors, Caligula, Nero, Commodus and Heliogabalus. Turns out it was all lies written by their enemies
Surprisingly for a TV documentary, that's actually pretty much what current scholarship is saying about them. |
Edited by - Thieran on 21 Aug 2011 16:55:48 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2011 : 22:30:56
|
| Orwellian rewrites? It makes me wonder if everything they say about the greatest nations/empires on Earth and Toril are fact or fancy. Perhaps ancient Netheril was far more ordinary than people in the Realms believe, perhaps even Karsus wasn't as accomplished nor as vile as most historians (and gods) would claim. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2011 : 11:15:29
|
Even today, in the media, they say all kinds of crap. Imagine how the information gets distorted over the years.
That's one of the reasons why 3e's change to the 3rd-person omniscient narrative was not needed. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Heliogabalus
