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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Mar 2010 : 05:36:19
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I've heard of undead and fiends that have done it but never a celestial. Can anyone cite instances of this happening?
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2010 : 14:53:25
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| There are several powers that are not noted as having been mortal that have ascended in recent centuries; the Red Knight springs to mind. It's said (IIRC) that she was a faithful servant of Tempus whom he rewarded with thespark of divinity. It's not canon, but I've always imagined her as an ascended Planetar. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2010 : 11:14:30
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There are no canon sources as far as I know. Celestial interventions in the Prime are the ones that would most often inspire religious admiration and form some cult following. Even a potted plant can ascend. I don't imagine the official, canon gods are all gods of Faerun, there has to be hundreds of other demigods.
Red Knight was possibly a specific neutral-aligned outsider-type servant/spirit of Tempus that possessed a heroine of the Tethyr war.
Other possibilities, Helm (thanks to his somewhat generic name), I used two different legends for him. One that he was a member of a fallen race of Celestia called the Watchers (grigori), the other that he was a clairsentient construct of Auppenser.
I'm not sure about Nobanion, if he's Aslan then ... ?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2010 : 13:37:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
I'm not sure about Nobanion, if he's Aslan then ... ?
Nobanion originally was, in part, based on Aslan. So saith Ed in the old DRAGON article [#54] on divinity. |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2010 : 05:20:33
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Nobanion is specifically mentioned as an interloper deity having established a presence in Faerūn only within the last few centuries. This is found in Faiths & Pantheons p.103. I don't know if this indicates he came over with the wemics, assuming they are even an interloper race, and a recent one at that.
Alternatively, this certainly allows for the possibility that Nobanion is in fact an aspect/fragment/avatar of the actual Aslan of Narnia, which may possibly be connected to Faerūn by means of portal, or some other link--such as the Wood Between The Worlds, which Ed Greenwood states he uses in his home Realms. Whether the Wood Between The Worlds has canon connections to Faerūn has never been said by WotC, and I don't think has been said by Ed, either. But it certainly allows for the possibility (however tenuous) that Nobanion IS Aslan. |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2010 : 06:49:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
... which may possibly be connected to Faerūn by means of portal, or some other link--such as the Wood Between The Worlds, which Ed Greenwood states he uses in his home Realms. Whether the Wood Between The Worlds has canon connections to Faerūn has never been said by WotC, and I don't think has been said by Ed, either. But it certainly allows for the possibility (however tenuous) that Nobanion IS Aslan.
Given the chapter in the Manual of the Planes about the colour pools on the astral plane which seem to allude to the pools of the Wood Between the Worlds, I think it isn't unlikely that such connections between the Wood and Faerun exist. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2010 : 14:32:40
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| Supposedly Aslan is Christ, who knows how that would work in Realmspace if at all. So maybe he's angelic (celestial) like that lion from the Revelation. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2010 : 15:49:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Supposedly Aslan is Christ, who knows how that would work in Realmspace if at all. So maybe he's angelic (celestial) like that lion from the Revelation.
It's not supposedly -- it's flat out allegory. The original idea was something like "What if Christ came as a lion?" |
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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe
Canada
161 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2010 : 19:37:32
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And I think the answer to the original question about Celestials being able to ascend to godhood (regardless of canon examples) is "Yes," if we can believe all the WotC designers speaking about 4e at last GenCon. That's the whole idea: anyone or anything CAN ascend to godhood. "How" is the big question.  |
Edited by - Baleful Avatar on 20 Mar 2010 19:38:30 |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2010 : 21:43:19
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I want to say yes, tentatively so far as the Great Wheel cosmology goes. Will need to actually check on it though.
Outside of the Wheel however, one of Golarion's major gods, Sarenrae, started out as a celestial and subsequently ascended to godhood. |
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Edited by - Shemmy on 25 Mar 2010 03:34:21 |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2010 : 05:27:34
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| Thanks for your responses guys. Logically speaking, Major fiends like Orcus and Asmodeus have made the leap, so I guess Celestials could as well. I want to say that there is a tell of a bear Guardinal or was it an archon that went into deep contemplation pondering the orinigs of true evil and then emerged or would emerge as a true divine being.... |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2010 : 06:28:21
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| I think that the main reason celestials haven't ascended to the godhood is their loyalty and servant attitude. Very few of such beings would have any ambitions. Pretty boring if you ask me. |
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Can a Celestial Ascend to Godhood?
