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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 11:51:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Remnis is the boon companion of Krocaa, and has served as Krocaa's mount in battle.
Only one question: in the entry for Krocaa, he was described as a golden or white eagle... So, I think it's a little strange having an eagle mounted on another eagle. Any thoughts about it?  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 03 Mar 2011 11:59:40 |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2011 : 05:49:27
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Well, the gods were depicted in varying ways. Coloration and body shape would change somewhat depending on the artist, tribe, location, and era. Gods themselves appear however they wish, but when they manifest they tend to appear in the form that reflects the viewer's expectations of how that god should look. Their visages were very much subject to the fashion of the particular time and locality of their worshipers.
It's important to note that the Aearee themselves were not birds, but not humanoid either. Something inbetween. The Aearee, however, should not be thought of as humanoids with avian features, but were instead closer to birds, with certain humanoid-like adaptations.
The Aearee-Krocaa tended to have the particular features of birds from the family Accipitridae, which includes such species as hawks, eagles, kites, harriers and Old World vultures. The Aearee-Krocaa were not actually members of the Accipitridae family, mind you, but they are physically similar. The Aearee-Krocaa may have evolved from Accipitridae or been magically created using birds as a base stock, or they may have separately evolved those features through parallel evolution. The true nature of their origins is beyond the scope of this post.
Aearee-Syran share the features of psittaciformes (an order that includes parrots), falconiformes (falcons & kestrels) and passerine birds. Aearee-Quor have the features of corvids. Vulchlings share the features of condors, buzzards, and both Old World and New World vultures. Eblis are similar to ciconiiformes, Dohwar to sphenisciformes, and there were yet other branches of the Aearee that expressed features of still other bird orders.
However it should be noted that the Aearee are a single species and all the subraces can interbreed with each other. But Aearee cannot interbreed with birds (barring the use of magic). So the Aearee are a diverse species that are more closely related to each other than to the bird species whose features they share. In fact, Aearee consider themselves far above birds, who they see as animals, in the same way that humans view themselves as superior to monkeys, apes and other primates.
Aearee raised birds as pets, mounts and even food. The Aearee-Quor were known for their use of rocs in battle, equipping them with howdahs, saddles, battle-harnesses, barding and weapons. They also rode giant bats, terlen, and the occasional pterosaur. Giant eagles were commonly used as mounts by the Aearee-Syran and the Aearee-Krocaa, who also used soarwhales, the odd pegasus or two, and flying treants whose branches had been fashioned into vast wings by Aearee druids. The advantage of using flying mounts was that Aearee could fly faster, higher, farther, and carry more for longer durations when using steeds adapted for the purpose.
With respect to Krocaa, it should be noted that he was much smaller than Remnis. In some stories he flies with Remnis as a companion and friend, especially when they hunted together. Stories tell how they often chased Sneel, the Beast Lord of Rats. In other myths, Krocaa rides Remnis as a mount, especially to travel far away to other planes, or when riding into battle. In those tales, Krocaa is depicted as roughly human sized (or regular aarakocra size). Whereas Remnis is depicted much larger, about the size of a Roc, though exactly how big could vary. When they were hunting together, Remnis is often depicted smaller in scale, closer to the size of Krocaa, though always somewhat larger.
However, Remnis was not viewed as an equal peer to Krocaa, but rather as subservient. The Aearee saw Remnis as a loyal servant to his master or as a resourceful pet. Similar to other mythological pets such as Odin's ravens, Fenris, Cerberus, Al-Buraq, Garuda or even Krypto.
Come to think of it, Garuda is a good analogy with Remnis. Not in the details of his myths, but in his status with respect to the other gods of the Hindu pantheon and as the mount of Vishnu. Remnis's importance to and degree of inclusion in Aearee myth might be roughly comparable to the relative importance and frequency that Garuda features in Hindu myths. In fact, if I were going to write some flavor text regarding tales of Remnis, I might read up on Garuda for some inspiration. |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2011 : 06:06:06
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Flying Treants: The Aearee-Syran were allied with the fey. Their civilization was centered in what is now the High Forest, and so they lived in close society with treants, sprites and nymphs of all kinds.
Consequently, the Aearee-Syran developed arboriculture to a high art. They took special delight in the care and tending of treants. Aearee druids cultivated treants in the manner of bonsai, cross-breeding them to produce robust yet exquisite new forms. They pruned and trained treant limbs with exacting care. They transplanted exotic grafts from other plants. They pleached branches, braiding them together to form specialized appendages. And they wove roots and branches into complex runes and carved glyphs into their bark to achieve magical effects both aesthetic and utilitarian.
By these methods, the Aearee gradually adapted treants for flight. Many had vast wings of varying shapes. Some looked like bird wings, with leaves long and feather-like. Others looked like bat or insect wings, with paper thin leaves forming translucent, diaphanous membranes stretched tight between delicate wooden veins. Other wing shapes were indescribable, looking more like a network of lily-pads, or a hodgepodge of ramshackle kites lashed together. And some treants had no wings at all, but used their myriad leaves in the manner of insects, buzzing furiously with an uncanny drone, appearing as if a swarm of bees had descended upon the treant and lifted it into the air.
It is doubtful that treant wings alone provided sufficient loft to enable flight, serving primarily to maneuver and propel the treant through the air. The power of flight was imbued mainly through the benefit of spells, glyphs and runes, and (usually) did not breed true to successive generations.
In the wars between the Aearee-Quor and the Aearee-Syran, the gargantuan, winged treants of the northern forces proved a deadly match for the Aearee-Quor's battle rocs. The roots of the treants could insinuate themselves between the armored feathers of the rocs, penetrating to the soft skin beneath and allowing the treants to rip away great chunks of feathers and flesh from the hapless birds. Their whorling limbs walloped and pummeled the birds like battering rams, shattering bones and knocking howdahs and riders from their backs. The treants would entangle the great beasts in their limbs, binding their wings and locking the pair in a death spiral, sending them plummeting to the earth below.
The advantage of the rocs, however, was that they bred much more quickly, and in greater numbers. The rocs were also less vulnerable to fire. As the wars progressed, the roc forces could be replenished, but the treant hosts dwindled and were depleted.
Treants, however, are remarkably long-lived. It is rumored that stray Aearee treants may have survived to this day, and could perhaps be found tending lofty earth motes or cloud forests. Most, though, would have long since taken root, become sedentary and grown into the colossal trees known as arakhor, the manner in which elder treants complete their life cycle. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2011 : 06:31:54
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| Agreed, Sage. I'm trying my darndest to wrap my mind around that one. Flying trees was good so this is even better, I say. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 04 Mar 2011 06:36:16 |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2011 : 07:37:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
I always thought Remnis would also be the same "Eagle" god worshiped by the Green Elves, as described in Elves of Evermeet and cited in Rillifane Rallathil's entry on Demihuman Deities. In both sources, he is seen as the primal Great Eagle Spirit, and he's compared to the 2nd edition intermediate god Thunder, venerated by the American Indian (this entry suggests their priests could be similar).
I've found some similarities between Remnis and the White Eagle of Zeus from 1st edition "Deities & Demigods/Legends & Lore", maybe there was an inspiration there...
Barastir, I am sure you are correct. Though his name may change from myth to myth and pantheon to pantheon, Remnis is likely every archetypal eagle that appears throughout the pantheons of Toril. I am quite certain he IS the eagle venerated among the elves. His entry in Monster Mythology associates him with many good and neutral sky gods and singles out the Seldarine in particular.
Remnis may well be Zeus's eagle, or at least another Remnis may be that eagle in those spheres where the Greek gods have a presence. He could also be the Thunderbird of Native American myth. Or even the bald eagle that is America's heraldic symbol.
In fact, my first suspicion would be that any eagle that appears in a Torilian myth is probably an aspect of Remnis. Unless there is evidence to the contrary, I see no reason why that should not be so. |
Edited by - Gray Richardson on 04 Mar 2011 07:45:58 |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2011 : 13:42:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
In fact, Aearee consider themselves far above birds, who they see as animals, in the same way that humans view themselves as superior to monkeys, apes and other primates. Aearee raised birds as pets, mounts and even food.
This is exactly how I see the beast-humanoid races. And usually, in fantasy, people tend to make catmen, for example, having cat-like beasts, pets, and so on. But thinking of it, we don't use mostly primates as mounts, beasts of burden or even pets.
However, birds are very diverse. Maybe the Aearee-krocaa, for example, could use birds as food, but not necessarily those similar to Accipitridae, just like SOME humans get annoyed using primates as food (maybe because they look somehow similar to us).
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
The advantage of using flying mounts was that Aearee could fly faster, higher, farther, and carry more for longer durations when using steeds adapted for the purpose.
With respect to Krocaa, it should be noted that he was much smaller than Remnis. In some stories he flies with Remnis as a companion and friend, especially when they hunted together. (...) In other myths, Krocaa rides Remnis as a mount, especially to travel far away to other planes, or when riding into battle.
However, Remnis was not viewed as an equal peer to Krocaa, but rather as subservient. The Aearee saw Remnis as a loyal servant to his master or as a resourceful pet. Similar to other mythological pets such as Odin's ravens, Fenris, Cerberus, Al-Buraq, Garuda or even Krypto.
My point was: think of a god venerated by humans, but this deity has horse form. Would it ride a horse beast lord? However, if this god can assume a more humanoid form, it makes more sense to me. So, my question was more about the reason, not about the relation of subservience.
Since it's phisically possible for one to mount the other (since Krocaaa can shapechange into a more aarakocra-like form), the reasons are entirelly plausible. I was expecting you to say that Remnis could be used for flying farther, quicker, and maybe even carrying more weight, since that's why there are mounts, after all. I just forgot about Remnis' power of plane shifting. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 11:13:41
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| Gray (or anyone), is it possible that the Golden Eagle spirit worshipped by some Uthgardt in the past and Remnis are the same entity? This idea came to me this morning, however it maybe would imply Remnis, a lesser deity, being subjugated by Uthgar, a demipower. What do you think about it, guys? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 11 Mar 2011 11:43:52 |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 18:11:49
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Yes, I think it not only possible but probable that the Golden Eagle spirit was indeed the same as Remnis.
As for subservience to Uthgar, one of the portfolios of Remnis is "service." I doubt Remnis would see this as subjugation so much as a voluntary assistance relationship. Note that Remnis often offers his services as mount to many deities. He likes to help out. It's what he does. But I imagine Remnis probably had a similar relationship to Uthgar as he did with Krocaa and the Seldarine.
Also, Remnis's being a primal spirit fits nicely with the kind of spirits that the Uthgardt revered.
In fact, if all the various totems they worship are primal spirits, then having an umbrella deity, like Uthgar, works nicely as the divine power source for the tribal clerics to pray to, those who need a divine power source. While the totem spirits, powered by the primal source, help to power those who look to the natural world as the source of their power (barbarians, druids, shamans, wardens, etc.) Upon reflection, this dual-sourced divine/primal system seems really elegant. It meets the needs of both types of worshipers.
So the subservience relationship you refer to, may be more of a mutual thing. A symbiosis, if you will; where the primal spirits work in league with the deity to achieve the common goals of both powers.
Now maybe Uthgar sees it as a subservience relationship. Or maybe just the tribes see it that way, and Uthgar goes along with it. But the primal spirits may not view it that way. Or they let him think that because it serves their interests. Or maybe they view themselves as a pack/flock/herd/family, with Uthgar as the alpha. Or maybe they don't think about it at all. It's likely that the interpersonal relationships among these powers are more complex and nuanced than appears. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 19:11:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Now maybe Uthgar sees it as a subservience relationship. Or maybe just the tribes see it that way, and Uthgar goes along with it. But the primal spirits may not view it that way. Or they let him think that because it serves their interests. Or maybe they view themselves as a pack/flock/herd/family, with Uthgar as the alpha. Or maybe they don't think about it at all.
The reference on Uthgar entry says the barbarian deity bested the totem spirits, it just doesn't say how. Maybe at least some of the spirits stablished a test of might in which, being "bested", they would serve Uthgar and his followers. And the Demipower would be aware of it, or not. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 19:38:23
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Well, the myth says he bested them. And maybe he did, by one definition or another. But what the myth says happened, what people believe happened, and what actually happened can be very different things. It may have played out exactly that way. Or maybe the primal spirits allow him that fiction to save face with the tribes. Or maybe that's what the tribes interpret as the relationship from their own point of view. Something to think about, at least.
You know. Come to think of it, the mutually beneficial, symbiotic relationship between primal spirits and deities may be more common than previously thought. Silvanus may have allied with Eldath for similar reasons. There may be good reasons for gods, nature gods especially, to pair up with primal spirits in order to better serve their worshipers. That way, the pair has access to both the divine and primal power sources covered.
Such relationships could be seen in a lot of different ways, father/daughter, master/servant, patron/intercessor/saint, husband/wife, boon companions, etc. But it seems likely that such arrangements bring great benefits to both sides and there are both great and subtle incentives for gods and primal spirits to ally themselves with each other.
Thus, many primal spirits may get incorporated into divine pantheons, and become "perceived" as gods, even though they may not technically be gods. They may even become worshiped as gods.
How this worship as a divine entity alters the character of a primal spirit I cannot say. I personally think that worship of an entity, any entity, whether elemental, celestial, primal, fey, etc., will infuse it with divine power and cause it to have a divine rank, and some level of spell/prayer granting ability, over and above its status as another type of power. I view divinity as a template that can be added to any base type. I think it possible to be both a primal spirit and a god. But that's just a theory. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2011 : 15:43:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Well, the myth says he bested them. And maybe he did, by one definition or another. But what the myth says happened, what people believe happened, and what actually happened can be very different things. It may have played out exactly that way. Or maybe the primal spirits allow him that fiction to save face with the tribes. Or maybe that's what the tribes interpret as the relationship from their own point of view. Something to think about, at least.
Such relationships could be seen in a lot of different ways, father/daughter, master/servant, patron/intercessor/saint, husband/wife, boon companions, etc. But it seems likely that such arrangements bring great benefits to both sides and there are both great and subtle incentives for gods and primal spirits to ally themselves with each other.
I understand, and my thinking wasn't far from this line. I was just considering one among many possibilities: at least some of the older (and maybe wiser) primal spirits accepting a challenge from the upstart barbarian god (he was a proud barbarian war leader before apotheosis) and letting him think that he bested them, and them enjoying this mutual benefits.
Or they coming to an agreement with Uthgar about this symbiotic relation, but accepting that the barbarian god should show the "besting and mastery" vertsion of the myth so his barbarian (sort of limited) followers could better respect him as a war leader.  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2011 : 20:08:00
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You know, deities are entities based in belief. I espouse the theory propounded by Eric Boyd and others that gods are so subject to belief that their behavior, appearance, even their personal timelines and genealogy can be altered by the myths that mortals tell of them. A critical mass of belief can make subtle changes to their aspect, and sometimes even very radical changes. A recent example is the transformation of Lathander into Amaunator. Eric Boyd stated that gods can even have multiple, conflicting origins and mythical events happen to them.
Gods, in a way, are a living fiction, memes personified, that can be redacted, edited and retconned by the beliefs of their worshipers. They are torn and influenced by their followers just as much as they lead and influence those who worship them.
But primal spirits do not derive their power from belief. I would think that their personal timelines cannot be influenced by their congregants, since they don't really have any as such. To the extent that they have acquired worshipers and added the "god template" with a divine rank, maybe that can influence them on the mythic level to some degree, but I would think that a part of them should remain independent and immune from manipulation by the belief and myths of mortals.
So my point is that interaction between primal spirits with gods might reflect two separate realities; a sort of absolute timeline/view from the vantage of the primal spirit, and then the "public" version/interpretation espoused by the god's believers. Eric Boyd called the god version "mythic time." I suppose, for lack of a better term, you could call the primal spirit version "prime time."
It seems likely that primal spirits might be able to tell you a lot about gods based on their interaction with them down through the ages.
And to bring it back to the topic, I would imagine that Remnis could give you the real skinny on the Aearee gods, not to mention many other pantheons that he has had dealings with through the ages. Although he is also very wise, so he might be very careful about what he says, if he were even to reveal anything at all. He might find it wiser to keep his secrets. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2011 : 11:54:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
And to bring it back to the topic, I would imagine that Remnis could give you the real skinny on the Aearee gods, not to mention many other pantheons that he has had dealings with through the ages. Although he is also very wise, so he might be very careful about what he says, if he were even to reveal anything at all. He might find it wiser to keep his secrets.
I agree completely, and it would make even more relevant the concept you brought with the phrase: "He is considered very wise and many myths tell of heroes scaling mountains to find him and seek his wisdom or his aid in finding lost things."
And exactly because Remnis wouldn't be affected by the way his followers see him, it would not matter to him if Uthgar told his followers he bested the Great Lord of Eagles. So, even if it wasn't necessarily true, it would bring more advantages than disadvantages.
And being so wise, of course Remnis would not reveal the secrets lightly, since the revelation of some secrets could greatly affect the destiny of a deity. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 14 Mar 2011 16:10:28 |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 14:45:24
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Gray, would you have anything about K'ooriall to share? I've seen in another topic that you think he would be the equivalent of the ki-rin's deity Koriel (that's a nice idea, is it yours?)...
Besides, there are other Aearee deities? Will you write about them, too?  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 17:17:21
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I would like to expand on K'ooriall at some point. I do think he works as an Aearee version of Koriel. Although I haven't quite got a bead on him yet. His lore is tricky.
I'm working on a little lore about the Great Bird of Night, the Aearee conception of Shar, and the offshoot of the Aearee that looked like owls, the flock of night, of which she was patron. I'm trying to track down all the owl-based D&D monsters that might be modern descendants of that race.
I've also got some Aearee linguistics lore on the Aearee language(s) including an Aearee dictionary.
Right now I am deeply immersed in the midst of the SXSW festival, and won't be able to get my head above water to work on lore for at least another week or two. But more is coming eventually.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 19:17:21
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Nice, Gray.
I've read Koriel's entry in Monster mythology, and found out that the ki-rin deity and Remnis have much in common... So,this conversion will be tricky indeed. Besides, I liked the idea of the Great Bird of Night, however the only owl-like monsters I remember now are the noctrals, owlbears and (obviously) giant owls.
Good work in the festival, and I'll keep in touch if I discover any other owl-based creature. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 20:50:09
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Noctrals are the ones I am thinking of. I was also thinking of Space Owls from Spelljammer. However, I have concluded that they are simply intelligent owls.
I was thinking it would be cool if Space Owls were Aearee that had escaped to Wildspace through spelljamming. However, they are small (normal owl-sized) and share no humanoid characteristics. I don't think they work as Aearee. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 22:41:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Noctrals are the ones I am thinking of. I was also thinking of Space Owls from Spelljammer. However, I have concluded that they are simply intelligent owls.
I was thinking it would be cool if Space Owls were Aearee that had escaped to Wildspace through spelljamming. However, they are small (normal owl-sized) and share no humanoid characteristics. I don't think they work as Aearee.
No, but what if their intelligence is due to Aearee modification? 
For that matter, a lot of magical birds could be the results of Aearee maniupulation. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 00:51:46
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Ah, the space owls... one of my favourite races from SPELLJAMMER. 
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Noctrals are the ones I am thinking of. I was also thinking of Space Owls from Spelljammer. However, I have concluded that they are simply intelligent owls.
I was thinking it would be cool if Space Owls were Aearee that had escaped to Wildspace through spelljamming. However, they are small (normal owl-sized) and share no humanoid characteristics. I don't think they work as Aearee.
No, but what if their intelligence is due to Aearee modification?
Hmmmm. Maybe the Aearee sought to expand upon the space owls' natural proclivities... like navigation -- evolving it to the point where they could begin to act as navigators for demihuman-crewed ships in Wildspace?
Ooooh! Maybe the concept of a "Parliament of Space Owls" came about after fierce debate between a philosophical space owl and a demihuman philosopher over what to call congregating space owls? Heh.
quote:
For that matter, a lot of magical birds could be the results of Aearee maniupulation.
That's an interesting idea.
Perhaps the space owls act as the philosophical/scientific backbone of some great Aearee-led magic/intelligent bird hierarchy? Aeararchy? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 16 Mar 2011 00:53:14 |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 11:33:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Noctrals are the ones I am thinking of. I was also thinking of Space Owls from Spelljammer. However, I have concluded that they are simply intelligent owls.
In which Spelljammer book (or MC) can I find the Space Owls? Are they a variation of the normal talking owls? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 11:53:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Noctrals are the ones I am thinking of. I was also thinking of Space Owls from Spelljammer. However, I have concluded that they are simply intelligent owls.
In which Spelljammer book (or MC) can I find the Space Owls? Are they a variation of the normal talking owls?
MC9, the second Spelljammer Appendix to the Monstrous Compendium.
They're intelligent, philosophic owls with some spellcasting and excellent navigational abilities. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 13:19:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
MC9, the second Spelljammer Appendix to the Monstrous Compendium.
They're intelligent, philosophic owls with some spellcasting and excellent navigational abilities.
Thank you, Wooly! |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 11:27:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I'm working on a little lore about the Great Bird of Night, the Aearee conception of Shar, and the offshoot of the Aearee that looked like owls, the flock of night, of which she was patron. I'm trying to track down all the owl-based D&D monsters that might be modern descendants of that race.
Gray, the owl-based creatures I found (those that are not animals) are good, being noctral and talking owls LG and space owls CG... How could they worship a conception of Shar, have you already considered this? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Andrekan
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 14:57:05
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| Would any these avians have a connection to the aarakocras around the Star Mounts of High Forest or would they have specific culture all their own? |
"Those two talk only of drink, riches, women, brawling, and magic, so ye've a one in five chance..." Quote from "Elminster in Hell" |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 18:18:33
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The aarakocra of the Star Mounts are direct descendants (some 30,0000 years removed) of the Aearee-krocaa and Aearee-syran that fled to distant parts west when the dragons arose in Faerūn. Some fled to Coliar by spelljamming their floating cities. Some survivors fled to Maztica, Anchorome, or unknown lands even further west. There may have been some that survived in Katashaka or Osse. But we are told that dragons drove the Aearee that remained in Faerūn completely extinct.
My theory is that the aarakocra of today are a mix of the Aearee-krocaa and Aearee-syran strains.
We are told in the Grand History of the Realms p.73 that the aarakocra recolonized Faerūn in 418 DR, the Year of the Eagles Flight. They migrated from Maztica across the Trackless Sea by flying from island to island over the course of generations. This lore also appeared in a prior source, maybe Serpent Kingdoms but I don't have that reference handy at the moment.
So the aarakocra have only been back in Faerūn for about a thousand years after a 30,000 year absence.
We think they settled the Star Mounts because that was the ancestral home of the Aearee-syran, who had their capital there which they called Phwiukree. Perhaps the aarakocra were driven by a racial memory. Or a more intriguing possibility is that they had legends/prophecies of great magic hidden in the area, which they hope to rediscover and use to reassert their greatness as a people. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 18:36:53
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OR they were guided there by the magnetic field of Toril!
Gray, have you seen my question about the owl-based creatures and the Great Bird of Night? Oh, and have the spelljammer albari been covered in your articles?
One more thing: in Candlekeep Compendium IV it is stated that Krocaa could be the son of Remnis and Akadi, have you any consideration about this? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 18 Mar 2011 17:47:58 |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 03:24:23
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The great bird of night, to my thinking, reminds me of Nyx, the winged goddess of night in Greek myth, which Hesiod says sprang forth from Chaos as one of the first gods (if not THE first), the Protogenoi, from whom all else descends. Although, it should be stressed that the Great Bird of Night is not Nyx, she is Shar, the personification of darkness and night. She is depicted variably as an Aearee with owl or a raven features, or simply as winged shadow, or a veil of darkness.
Shar, as one of the native, original gods of the Torilian cosmos is transpantheonic and was known to many races. To the Aearee she was conceived of in Aearee form. She had a name among the Aearee, although I don't know what it is. I might be able to figure out her name once I get the Aearee language material figured out. Her name may have simply been the Aearee word for "night." But for now I just call her the Great Bird of Night.
Just as the Aearee-krocaa, Aearee-syran, and the Aearee-quor had patrons, there were a nocturnal race of Aearee that had the features of owls whose patron was Shar. This race seems to be less well known and almost totally extinct, except for the noctrals, although even they no longer worship her.
It is likely that the Aearee pantheon contained several transpantheonic deities that are known to modern humans by different names, but at the time were conceived by the Aearee to have Aearee forms and Aearee names.
As for the origin of Krocaa, I consider his parentage to be apocryphal. There is probably more than one version of his origin myth. Some say he was born of Remnis and Akadi, others say he was born from the cosmic egg whose two halves became the earth and the sky. I am sure there are other versions. Myth is a fuzzy logic proposition that is true to the extent that people believe it.
As for the Albari, I think they were definitely Aearee. I don't have any lore on them yet, but I am thinking that they may have been Batrachi slaves that remained in bondage after Tearfall, and were taken by Batrachi survivors to the plane of Limbo (now the Supreme Throne) where they served those Batrachi who became the neraph. (Neraphim?) They continued to serve the Batrachi for some time before they escaped to Wildspace. Some may still be there to this day, living amongst the neraph of the Supreme Throne. They may have been influenced by the chaotic nature of that plane. It may have changed them somehow. It's even conceivable that they interbred with the neraph or slaad in some fashion and thus have the blood of that race flowing through their veins. But those are just my initial thoughts.
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 05:36:33
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| I found reference to an Owl-like creature known as the Hsiao, or Guardian Owl, from the Mystara setting, but no humanoid/avians of any kind just yet, I'll keep looking. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 20 Mar 2011 05:38:42 |
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MalariaMoon
Learned Scribe
324 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 03:25:16
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Realmslore and ornithology! I just had a geekgasm!
Seriously, Id like to add my praise to Grays work here. The heroes in my campaign will shortly be exploring what was to be an ancient aarakocra ruin in the Riders to the Sky mountains bordering Unther and Chessenta.
Since reading your work, Im revising this theory. The ancient city will be of Quorllinn origin, and a particular haven of Quorlinn spellthieves who stole many magical secrets in the earliest days of Faeruns history (perhaps they pilfered one of the Nether scrolls). It was one of the few strongholds of the Quorlinn that did not fall to the seduction of Pazrael. When the rest of the race fell to darkness, the Quorlinn hid their city in a mantle of shadows. Millennia later the spell mantle failed, and the city was destroyed by a mighty red dragon (a forefather of Tchazzar).
One idea I have is that a flock of dire corbies make an occasional pilgrimage to the city. These dire corbies have ceased to worship Pazrael, and vainly hope their prayers can reach Quor, who will restore the power of flight to them. The corbies gather in the city, praying in vain and trying to fight off the depredation of the pteranodons that now lair there.
Ill work up a better description of the city and post it here in the future.
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The Aearee: Secrets of the Avian Creator Race
