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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31684 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2009 :  06:17:11  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
I think Jean Rabe briefly hit upon this concept of liches wearing clothes in her Red Magic novel. Or was it "Red Ambition" from Realms of Magic? Then again, it could've been Szass Tam's entry in the Spellbound book? I can't recall at the moment. Anyways, I do recall some Realms-based thinking on this.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Why do Liches bother to wear clothes?
Hilarity aside, I wouldn't mind also hearing Ed's thoughts on this. I recall a few tidbits from Van Richten as per the RAVENLOFT setting and why liches may still tend toward garments of a kind. But I'm curious about the Bearded One's take on it as well.

So, Ed, consider this question to be seconded.

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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe

147 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2009 :  06:36:17  Show Profile  Visit GoCeraf's Homepage Send GoCeraf a Private Message
I'd imagine that, from a completely tactical standpoint, most liches' vestments are very heavily enchanted.

Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling.
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2009 :  07:04:01  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
I've got a question:
Was Azoun a feminist?
Let me explain: During Azoun's rule, it seemed to me that many women came to powerful positions - appointed by Azoun. Myrmeen Lhal, Tessaril Winter, Gwennath of Tymora, etc. So, my question is this: Did Azoun appoint them because he thought women would be better at these posts than men, or because 'she's the right person for the job, and I don't care if she's a commoner and a woman'?
And let's not look at the hands on the reins after Azoun's death...

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2009 :  12:52:15  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor

I've got a question:
Was Azoun a feminist?

(Oooooh, sorry, gotta stick my oar in here!)

While we could think of Azoun as a feminist*, feminism, as we think of it, does not exist on Toril.

I'd definitely put him in the category of "gynephile" or someone who loves women (in his bed, preferably ). Though I think he might also fall into the sex addict category too. (I use sex addict in the sense that he enjoys is and does it as often as he can, not as in really addicted and would be treated for it if he existed on Earth in the 'naughties**').)

quote:
Let me explain: During Azoun's rule, it seemed to me that many women came to powerful positions - appointed by Azoun. Myrmeen Lhal, Tessaril Winter, Gwennath of Tymora, etc. So, my question is this: Did Azoun appoint them because he thought women would be better at these posts than men, or because 'she's the right person for the job, and I don't care if she's a commoner and a woman'?
And let's not look at the hands on the reins after Azoun's death...


I don't think Azoun was fulfilling any quotas in his lifetime. I'd say that he, being a fair minded individual, would have appointed them because they simply were the best person for the job at the time. (Plus, Myrmeen Lhal didn't start out as Lady Lord of Arabel, her husband was Lord before her, and she kind of inherited it when he died - though if Azoun didn't want her there, he'd have kicked her out.)

As for Alusair as Steel Regent (with Caladnei, Laspeera, and Filfaeril ably assisting her in the background), she only became the regent because she was the last of the Obarskyr line (aside from Azoun V who was far too young to become the new king)... The ladies of the Obarskyr family got skipped for the actual Crown (Regent is not exactly the same as Queen, though it is a very powerful position).

I won't say anything about the travesty that is Cormyr in 4th Edition (a complete lack of powerful women in the canon***, nuff said).


* Azoun as a feminist is really a stretch if you ask me - if he was, he'd change the way Cormyrian inheritance worked to be fairer to noble womenfolk, for example.
** For those who don't realize what I mean, 2000-2009 is the "naughties".
*** I have not read anything new on DDI since the Cormyr preview article, so if that's changed since then... My bad, sorry.

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.

Edited by - Zandilar on 25 Mar 2009 12:52:54
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2009 :  14:16:04  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, fellow scribes. Ed has been busy busy busy, but he's also been reading the posts from this thread that I shuttle along to him, and has sent some Realmslore replies, to whit:


Hi, everybody. Markustay, liches wear clothes for a variety of reasons. Zandilar is correct when she says habit, GoCeraf is right when he says many lich garments are enchanted, and provide a way for liches to carry more "ready" magic around on their persons for use (particularly defensive), and Wooly is correct re. both clothing providing a means of carting useful stuff around and for reasons of vanity (partially concealing their wasted bodies). however, there's a "crowning" reason, too: clothing provides a psychological "anchor" for liches, rooted in human nature and in the writings of early lichnee-attainment procedures by long, long-ago mages, right down to Nulathoe (who believed that retaining clothing and footwear slowed the "inevitable decay" of the physical body of the lich). So a lot of them are afraid of falling apart faster, and believe that clothing, however ragged, rotten, or "abbreviated," somehow provides a binding for the body that slows its deterioration. That's alos why many liches LET clothing decay: although they may don new clothing OVER the old, rotting stuff, they seldom remove the garments they were wearing at attainment of lichdom, or donned right away after they "rose" as liches.
Remember, all: there are no trivial questions, only trivial answers. :}


So saith Ed. Who will have more to say soon, I'm thinking as I look at my inbox.
love to all,
THO
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2009 :  14:17:59  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
I did say I didn't mean a feminist in our world. I don't think he was a feminist; but I am trying to figure out if he believed in empowerment of women. Not changing the rules doesn't mean he wasn't for it; it probably means he couldn't. Heck, the Obarskyrs have enough problems without all the male nobles protesting to them.
And Cormyr is a place where the woman you marry is important, and should actually listen to, in contrast to many places in olden times, where a wife was just a decoration.
My last sentence was intended as more of a joke than anything, but I beleive Azoun's reign still had some effect on that. Laspeera was an important member of the court during his rule, Alusair could do what she did because she was highly respected by many, including her father, and Filfaeril held some power because Azoun had listened to her.
Regarding 4e Cormyr: Actually, there's hardly any information. Only the name of the King (Foril), and that his nephew is quite evil. Although I saw somewhere that there was a new Court Mage, Ganrahast, which mean Caladnei is gone. This would also probably be one of the shortest tenures as Mage Royal of Comyr. This may indicate what you spoke of, Zandilar.

But I have another question: are there any writing concerning the schism between Khelben and the Harpers, which led to the formation of the Moonstars? If not, could we have some information regardingit? I know what the schism was about, but how did the Chosen deal with it? Did it make them grow distant for a time?

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29649 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2009 :  14:30:05  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor

But I have another question: are there any writing concerning the schism between Khelben and the Harpers, which led to the formation of the Moonstars? If not, could we have some information regardingit? I know what the schism was about, but how did the Chosen deal with it? Did it make them grow distant for a time?



The Schism itself happened in Cloak & Dagger -- the last 2E FR supplement, and in my opinion, one of the best. This is where almost all of the info about the Schism is.

Unfortunately, it was a plotline that was mostly ignored for 3E (though City of Splendors: Waterdeep did give us a Moonstar PrC). In fact, one of the designers is on record as saying he didn't like it, and that's why it was left alone.

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2009 :  14:40:01  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
. . . And I was (ahem, of course!) right.
Menelvagor, Ed has STARTED to tackle your "Was Azoun a feminist?" query; he says he'll provide a much more comprehensive reply later, "when he can" (read: NDA trouble). Here's his start, however (please note, he hadn't seen your last, clarifying your position post when he penned this):


Hi, Menelvagor. Zandilar has pretty much "hit it" correctly in her reply. Here's the thing: "feminism," as we know it, is a concept unfamiliar to folk in the Realms. They know all about cronyism and corruption, and all about men who oppress women (as a fact of human nature, not as any sort of "syndrome" or necessarily "wrong for society in general" thing). Wife-beaters are considered bad, and idiots or crazies to boot (if you were a slaver, would you think highly of a slave-dealer who damaged the goods?).
Azoun DOES enjoy sex, as often as he can get it. He DOES enjoy the company of women, both spirited intellectuals flirting or disputing with him, and in bed (or on a saddle - - highly uncomfortable, that; I don't recommend any real-world experiments; trust me, I've made them for you :} or handy patch of ground, flat roof, whatever). However, he was by no means following some sort of equal rights or affirmative action hiring process; he was putting into positions the best people he thought he could find (and he was largely right in his judgements).
Remember, he can only go by the people he's gotten to know, well enough to see them under stress, test them, etc. . . . and that meant a lot of women, more than men. He needs people who are capable AND LOYAL, and he's satisfied himself that all of these women he put into positions were loyal to the realm (not necessarily personally to him, so he's not a self-serving despot). Male nobles tend to be hostile towards the Obarskyrs, and male commoners he has a hard time getting to know; he CAN'T take long periods "off the throne, in among the people in a magical disguise, getting to know the real people" without Vangey's help, and he doesn't quite trust Vangey, Vangey won't give that help ("I spent years suffering at your side all around the realm so you'd learn this already; I've DONE it, stay on that throne and DO YOUR JOB - - oh, and your crown's askew") [see CORMYR: A NOVEL for a glimpse of those years].
So he grabbed the best people he knew, and put them into positions he needed filled. Yes, he's admirably free of the misogyny many male nobles of his generation display some openly (and his appointments gained him a lot of quiet support and admiration from the noble wives of these same blustering, bullying male nobles, who saw his naming of women to so many important posts as good for the realm AND giving their daughters some hope for better, more meaningful lives - - as in, lives with careers in them beyond "breeding our own horses" and "painting or sewing or weaving splendid things").
Azoun would not have thought of himself as doing anything "for women," collectively. He would have seen himself as "doing the right thing," in each individual "hire," and we know from his statements on several occasions that he thought older generations of Cormyreans were idiots, who harmed the quality of life in the realm greatly, by "wasting" the skills and potential of so many women, noble and common.
In all of this, it should be borne in mind that most women of Cormyr, no matter how ambitious and capable, tend to be more subtle than the Alusair sorts: they rule by tongue and manipulation and forethought, more than by swinging a sword from a saddle and trying to "out-boy the boys." (Not that one approach is inherently superior to the other; I'm just pointing out that in our game adventure and fictional "radar," we would focus more on the action sorts, and less on the quieter, more behind-the-scenes manipulations.)
I'll post more about this when I get the chance. The short answer would be: Azoun would be initially bewildered if you asked him if he thought he was a feminist. Once you explained the concept, he would say he was not; rather, he was a pragmatist doing the right thing for the realm where so many predecessors had not because they were blind to the unused talents of so many women of the realm. Some observers would say that regardless of what Azoun thought, his actions could be seen as the largest steps yet in supporting feminist values (Zandilar, your comments re. inheritance are a larger subject I'll have to tackle in another post; every family has their own tradition of inheritance, and it's NOT always [but is usually] the male line - - and because of this, ANY monarch who tried to change those rules would have a REAL fight on their hands, because each and every noble family would view it as a personal attack on THEIR house), in the recent history of Cormyr.
That's all for now. As it happens, I'm busy writing a scene in fiction not set in the realms, where the poor male protagonist is very much being dominated by a woman. However, it's keeping him alive, so I suppose he shouldn't complain. :}


So saith Ed. Creator of the Realms, and deep thinker about many, many more facets of it than any of the rest of us have thought through.
love to all,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 25 Mar 2009 14:41:41
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2009 :  14:52:47  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Oh, and one little addendum, scribes:
I see from Ed's latest e-mail to me that he intends to soon reply to Christopher Rowe, Hoondatha, and Zandilar (Zan, re. your request for more "about Yanseldara and Vaerana Hawklyn before they came to rule Elversult"), but feels duty bound to revisit the noble families Daviot's been so patiently waiting for the Sorndrake details of, first. Then there's more of the Thunderstone and vicinity replies, those remaining orc "heroes," and so on.
No rest for the willfully wicked.
love to all,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 26 Mar 2009 00:29:06
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31684 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2009 :  14:54:21  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

... and Wooly is correct re. both clothing providing a means of carting useful stuff around and for reasons of vanity (partially concealing their wasted bodies).
Vanity would seem to be partly Szass Tam's reasoning, at times, I would imagine.
quote:
... however, there's a "crowning" reason, too: clothing provides a psychological "anchor" for liches, rooted in human nature and in the writings of early lichnee-attainment procedures by long, long-ago mages, right down to Nulathoe (who believed that retaining clothing and footwear slowed the "inevitable decay" of the physical body of the lich). So a lot of them are afraid of falling apart faster, and believe that clothing, however ragged, rotten, or "abbreviated," somehow provides a binding for the body that slows its deterioration.
The "psychological anchor" bit is interesting. I kinda get the feeling that, given the overall long-term effects of lichdom upon a lich's mind, clinging to old garments helps the lich to retain a sense of self through physical memory.

Additionally, another consideration is the fact that time loses all meaning when embracing lichdom. Essentially, each day becomes largely the same for a lich, so alternating clothing and fashion styles may occasionally help to break up the monotony associated with "eternal existence."

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31684 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2009 :  14:56:38  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor

But I have another question: are there any writing concerning the schism between Khelben and the Harpers, which led to the formation of the Moonstars? If not, could we have some information regardingit? I know what the schism was about, but how did the Chosen deal with it? Did it make them grow distant for a time?



The Schism itself happened in Cloak & Dagger -- the last 2E FR supplement, and in my opinion, one of the best. This is where almost all of the info about the Schism is.
Steven Schend has, however, elaborated on a few points concerning the Schism, here at Candlekeep. They're required reading for any Realms fans who have an interest in how this particular plot hook may have developed further.

The relevant replies can be accessed through the "So Saith Ed" archives.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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createvmind
Senior Scribe

490 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2009 :  22:08:16  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
Hello All,

Ed has detailed ways of repairing Dead Magic and Wild Magic areas by non-chosen been written by you anywhere, there is an order of paladins in 'Champions of Valor' who supposedly take on this challenege and are not followers of Mystra or Azuth.
These paladins actaully serve Torm so then I assume the manner in which they repair weave would be different, and being paladins first would likely mean far limited access to magic. Have you a take or any knowledge of this or could whip something up?

Thanks as always
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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe

Canada
161 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  00:27:45  Show Profile  Visit Baleful Avatar's Homepage Send Baleful Avatar a Private Message
A query for Ed, if I may.
The setting: a Realms campaign centered on Highmoon, in Deepingdale. If the Spellplague comes, how soon will it have dramatic local effects, in your opinion (and what would those initial effects be), and how long might it be "bad news from elsewhere" that might cause refugees, or good shortages, or the like in Highmoon, but not much else?
Thanks!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13120 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  04:03:43  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
There was an intial 'wave' that basically rolled across everything on Toril, but did so haphazardly, the moment Mystra perished. The effects were EXTREMELY random and chaotic, so it could have been anywhere from an entire nation blowing up (Halrua), to everyone in town getting 'the hives'.

Then there were a series of 'aftershocks' - various sporadic 'eruptions' of cerulean energy throughout the world, almost on a daily basis for the first couple of weeks, to once or twice a week for the next few months, until there was only several a year after the first year... and then nothing (or nearly so) after a decade.

I say "nearly so" because you still get spontaneous Wild-magic flare-ups here and there, but usually nothing on the scale that was seen in that first holocaustal decade. Most of that was gleened from answers given here and over at WotC (I believe Rich Baker was the one that said things calmed down A LOT after the first ten years).

We also have the Plague-changed Lands, which are akin to 2e's Wild Magic zones (coupled with Red Steel's mutanagenic effects), which are permanent in nature, and are like little 'Spellplagues' going off all the time.

Thats as much official detail as your likely to get, because it is up to you (the DM) to decide whats what in your 1479 DR Realms.

And now I'm going to create a naked lich that sews pockets into his skin, just to be contrary.

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

So saith Ed. Who will have more to say soon, I'm thinking as I look at my inbox.
love to all,
THO

May I, too, perchance have a peek, M'Lady?

I am SO very interested in your SHE-mail.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Mar 2009 04:06:10
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13120 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  19:20:07  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Ed, I'm am currently trying to get the FR map as precise as possible to the original. In your response to my query about Aralent, I noted you metioned that the FRA by Karen Fonstad (a MUCH-treasured resource) is the closest to your original ever officially published, so I have been gleening it for every scrap I can find.

While studying The North, I noted something peculiar - a lake in the Evermoors! It appears on pgs. 62-63 (and is repeated again on 64-65). This lake does not appear on any other maps, including others in the same book - was this part of your original?

I've managed to find three forests and a slew of tiny lakes that were dropped between 2e and 3e, but this is the only place I have seen a lake in the Evermoors (and I even went back and checked all the 1e maps, in case it was dropped when 2e came around). I also read ever source on it, from 1e-3e, and no mention of any lake therein.

Thanks --- Mark

P.S. - and since it appears in an official source, I am going to add it regardless (it looks cool there), so I guess what I'm really looking for is some sort of name for it if it was 'yours'.

And while I'm asking for names - there is a small 'clump' of Mounatains NW of the Citadel of the Raven (not the White Mountains north of The Ride - I already found that name).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Mar 2009 19:31:27
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1073 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  01:37:22  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message
Tantam Ed and THO!

Ed, an interesting discussion here about the Risen Sun Heresy has sparked a couple of questions please.

Question 1:
The Tripartite Sun God: Can I ask, was this part of the home Realms game, or was it Eric playing creatively in the sandbox of the published Realms?

Question 2:
Going back to the OGBS (with some additional lore from Faiths and Avatars) there seems to be several 'three' themes related to deities, to whit:
Risen Sun - Lathander, Amaunator and the unknown Dusk God (I prefer Jergal but Myrkul seems favoured by most)
The Triad - Tyr, Torm and Ilmater
The Gods of Fury - Auril, Umberlee and Malar
The Gods of Knowledge - Oghma, Deneir and Milil
The Jergal Three - Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul
The Moon Three? - Selune, Shar and Mystral/Mystra (born of the two?)
The Nature Gods - Silvanus, Mielikki and Eldath

Was the 'Three Deities together' a deliberate design choice of yours when putting together the Realms pantheon? (or am I making tenuous connections and shoe-horning gods into a thoery that is ridiculous?)


Thanks

Damian

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  02:32:48  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Thanks, Damian. Off to Ed these questions go.
Myself, I think the answer to Question 1 is that this is Eric's baby (with Ed's approval, of course; Mr. Boyd always called Ed about such things, because he's a friend and a professional, and because he cares deeply about the Realms and knows full well a tapestry turns out better when everyone working on it knows and agrees on details here and there, and some end results.
I suspect some of the trios of gods (such as the Triad) were named by Eric and George Krashos, guiding others into thinking and writing of those deities in that manner. Some of the trios (Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul, the nature trio, and the Gods of Knowledge, for example) were definitely linked that way by Ed, from the beginning.
Hmm; I know we're straying into territory Ed likes to keep mysterious so as to give DMs maximum freedom (he has said a time or two that the game should "handle religion softly so as to leave players and DMs, who are real people who may well have very real religious beliefs, the maximum comfort in tailoring 'their' Realms for their own best enjoyment"). I'm quoting here from some design notes he wrote in 1979, BTW.
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  02:38:47  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi, all, again.
Markustay, I'm looking at one of my old player's maps (Ed used to hand these out on occasion during play, with some features "known" and labelled and correctly mapped, others mapped but not named, and blank spots where our knowledge didn't extend to), and there's definitely a lake in the Evermoors in a 1981-or-so map Ed drew. So it's "in his original." No name, of course, because our characters didn't go there then, and I can't yet find the later, more extensive maps we were issued after we found a hidden cache of maps in Scornubel and became "sort-of experts" on that region.
So we'll see what Ed says, but yes, it IS his (pre-published-Realms) lake.
love,
THO
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13120 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  04:18:36  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Wonderful.

It appears Ms. Fonstad had access to Ed's maps, or at least the ones he sent-off to TSR, rather then just relying on other's earlier works (which I've noted leads to countles multiple-edition errors). She was simply amazing.

The North is getting Northier by the minute.

Thanks for that - I feel better about adding it now.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 28 Mar 2009 02:56:11
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  14:31:28  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Yes, TSR provided Karen with photocopies of every map Ed had sent in to them (until they cried halt, when they ran out of empty cubicles to pile all the stuff Ed was sending up in), plus copies of all of their own generated-for-adventure-modules maps. She created the rest by meticulously reading all of the novels and adventures and working out travel times and therefore distances, etc.
Over the years since, Ed has provided TSR (and later Wizards) with many more maps, though they have tended to be of small locales or cities (Crimmor, Tarmalune) rather than larger regions. Ed's preferred mapping style is akin to Fonstad (mountains are drawn in, in a perspective view, imparting some "feel" for the land), but he does professional-quaity topographical maps when he has the time and inclination, and delivered at least one of these, of an orc-infested mountain pass, for SILVER MARCHES (it wasn't used).
Ms. Fonstad is, of course, justly famous for her atlases of the works of Tolkien, McCaffrey, and Donaldson, among others. She attended one of the Milwaukee GenCons as a guest, but unfortunately passed away some years ago.
love,
THO
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Gelcur
Learned Scribe

224 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  14:55:42  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message
While on the topic of maps. The Hooded Lady was kind enough to describe the Stonelands to us in another thread recently. And suggested asking further questions here.

I am curious if Irongard's location in the Interactive Atlas is correct? I now know the Stonelands is a lose term but I imagined Irongard much closer to Eveningstar, the Atlas has it placed east past Arabel. Markustay's map has the Forgotten Keep near Eveningstar which looks correct. I know in an earlier post it was stated that the two were very close about a quarter day if one knew the way.

I am looking forward to running Irongard for the first in the near future with a group very new to D&D.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  15:56:01  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message
Lady THO,

If you would please convey my heart-felt thanks for Ed's introduction to my novel Downshadow? I just received my author's copies and read his kind and extremely flattering words.

He is truly a prince.

Cheers


P.S. And anyone with doubts about the existence and role of powerful women in the 4e FR has only to read this novel. Just sayin'.

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2859 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2009 :  02:55:23  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message
I look forward to reading Downshadow. I loved Mistshore, and Blackstaff Tower.

BRIMSTONE

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13120 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2009 :  03:03:41  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Over the last three years, I've had to make many 'sacrifices' as far as scale and distances, and also some locales were just too close together to show both (such as the Forgotten Keep and Irongaurd).

With the new, higher resolution, I should be able to add-in a LOT more locales I've discovered.

Edit: And this from another thread -
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Oh, and our first 'official' look at Halruaa was here:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/tsrnewsletter.pdf


Are the Aglarond and Halruua maps Ed's originals? (similarly is the Simbul sketch an Ed original?)

Yep, they were original "Ed maps".

I've tried blowing that Map of Halruaa up, but the res is too poor - Once I get around to re-doing that region, I may need to ask Ed what some of these are (although it looks like I got most of them already).

BTW - What product did that come with?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 28 Mar 2009 03:21:56
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4718 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2009 :  05:18:57  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
It was material that was originally slated for the Ol' Grey Box but cut for space.

It ended up in the "Secrets of the Sages" newsletter (a one-off) headed up by Bryon Wischstadt (one of the original fan lorelords of the Realms). His idea to provide a fan-organised and produced FR newsletter as an adjunct to the officially published products unfortunately didn't receive ongoing support.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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