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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 19:38:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I find it a bit tragic that there are so many noble families that started when an ancestor did something heroic, and now his descendants have become the kind of people he would most likely have despised.
Yes, that was an element in both accountings so far that has really jumped out at me.
I've enjoyed these accountings very much, too.
Indeed, and I could always use one or more of the other noble houses as antagonists should my game veer towards Cormyr (or should I start a game there). I'm enjoying the replies; thanks again!  |
One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
My Tabletop Writing CV. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 21:01:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I find it a bit tragic that there are so many noble families that started when an ancestor did something heroic, and now his descendants have become the kind of people he would most likely have despised.
Yes, that was an element in both accountings so far that has really jumped out at me.
I've enjoyed these accountings very much, too.
I suppose it's almost inevitable when it comes to inherited power. The first person who got the throne/title/estate had to work hard to earn it, so he/she was likely at least a competent person. His descendants didn't have to struggle in the same way, and subsequently grow more and more decadent over the generations.
Take that noble woman Florin guided through the forest in Knights of evenstar for example. She was spoiled BEYOND rotten. But when she had to struggle she came to see herself through a whole new light and became a much better person. It should be made law that all young nobles of Cormyr should go through that kind of stuff! |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
Edited by - khorne on 02 Feb 2009 21:02:13 |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 21:11:37
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quote:
Ed is describing what has happened in the past between two fictional characters, in a fictional rather than real-world setting, in order to establish villainy (not Noenel's!).
How is Noenal not a villain by this description? She is freely engaging in an adulterous, incestuous affair with her father. If she's his lover, she's a villain. If she's a victim, she's not his lover.
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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Aysen
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 21:16:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
To shift this discussion away from matters sexual or gender-related, many people end up coerced into doing things they don't want to do, and still try to derive some enjoyment out of doing them; it's one way of dealing with life
Ed's and THO's response, reminds me of a brief scene in one of his novels, where Sharantyr of the Knights recalls being made a torture slave of the drow and destined for breeding experiments. Storm relates her own similar experiences being captured by the drow, and echoes THO's above observation about deriving some enjoyment out of it all, if only to keep oneself sane and retaining a measure of self-control. Of course, this view DOES come from one of the wilder and unrestrained of the Seven Sisters, so take it with a grain of salt. |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 22:31:24
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While I'm not arguing with your logic, Erskine, you are using one set of meanings for "villain" and "victim" and "lover." The absolute meanings, one might call them.
I recall, when studying opera in university, that the stories of the various operas contained many incestuous relationships (AND relationships where one of the participants was under a spell, or deceived by shapechanging, or forced into it by a god or devil) wherein the word "lover" or "lovers" was still used. In both translated librettos and in various scholarly commentaries on the operas.
I'm with The Sage; I think we should all shelve this discussion before it gets out of hand. Ed has spoken time and time again about the perils of applying our modern real-world morals, laws, and viewpoints to the Realms, when it gets down to tricky details - - and once we're arguing definitions and semantics, we're in the realm of tricky details. Ed's established that House Bryarn are bad people, who presumably offed the guy who was with Lorna because he didn't fit in. Being as Noenel is dead, it really doesn't matter now if she was a frighted weakling (victim above all else) or complicit (villain above victim).
THO's explained why Ed used the wording he did, and that's good enough for me. Time to move on.
Me, I'd rather ask Ed another lore question, tied to these bad noble families. If a noble goes running to the Crown complaining about another noble, it doubtless triggers the War Wizards into snooping (if they aren't aware of the situation already). But if the complaint is something serious, do they usually only send Highknights to goad and War Wizards to dig, or are there any official, public responses from courtiers or the Obarskyrs (before an arrest, I mean)?
Thanks,
BB |
Edited by - Blueblade on 02 Feb 2009 22:38:44 |
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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe
Canada
161 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 23:10:53
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Dear Ed and THO,
Another Realms question for you: do any goods in the Realms (aside from stuff sold in kegs and other "bulk" containers) come in anything like "standard sizes"? Hats, cloaks, boots, gowns? Or is everything a case of "try it on, and if it doesn't fit see if a tailor can modify it"?
Thanks. |
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Broken Helm
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 23:16:37
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Dear Ed and THO,
I have a campaign situation arising in the early 1360s. The PC party is traveling to Neverwinter for the first time, and they want to quiz a shopkeeper in Waterdeep they've befriended (whom I've already told them recently relocated from Neverwinter) about the city. I, of course, have to roleplay the NPC shopkeeper, and I know they're going to ask about some good/popular/relatively trustworhty/well-run local businesses.
Can you give me a handful of such, that "everyone in Neverwinter" would have heard of, or know?
Thanks in advance! |
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 23:31:16
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Heya,
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi, all.
Zandilar, I checked with Ed, re. this: "I think use of the word lover trivializes Noenel's violation completely and implies that after the first time he forced her, she folded and then began to enjoy his "attentions"."
Ed says that was EXACTLY his implication (Noenel did begin to enjoy his attentions, which is why she kept things secret rather than fleeing the family or running to the Crown). Neither Ed nor I agree that "use of the word lover trivializes Noenel's violation completely," unless you take the sentence out of context (separated from the rest of Ed's entry).
Right, I see, thanks! I think that could have been made a little clearer, but that just comes down to semantics...
Irrationally*, I feel the need to take Noenel by the shoulders and shake some sense into her (perhaps by showing her what ultimately happens to her father's victims - leaving her with the strong implication that one day he'd get bored with her and that's how she'd end up if she didn't get out)... Not because I have anything against consensual incest (because I don't, shocking I know), but simply because her father is a very sick and evil bastard and I would genuinely be worried for her safety.
*Because of the fact that this is a fictional character we're talking about. |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 23:46:51
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I agree with you, Zandilar.
Ed and I chatted about this relationship when I was gleaning lore to reply to you earlier, and I, too, suspect he would have become tired of her. Noenel probably wouldn't have fled in time, once that happened, because (as Ed saw it) she derived some sort of comfort(?) from the first personal attention anyone had really paid to her. And her father would probably then have wanted her "accidentally" dead to protect himself from any possibility of their shared secret getting out.
What Ed hasn't decided is what Lady Bryarn's attitude would have been to her husband killing her daughter over an affair Ed thinks she knew about (but pretended not to). Not because she was upset by the incest or the adultery, but because she would then "know" that her husband would probably murder her, too, the moment a young, new, beautiful, non-blood-related replacement for Noenel happened along.
Of course (as they say), we'll never know . . .
love,
THO |
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gomez
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
254 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 06:38:23
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quote:
How is Noenal not a villain by this description? She is freely engaging in an adulterous, incestuous affair with her father.
I don't consider having a consentual incestual relationship on it's own as villainous.
However, I do think that Noenel can become a villain in an outsiders' eyes (such as an adventuring party) by the fact that her lover (at least a lover in her eyes) is a brutal, most evil man, and that her affair implies she condoned his evil acts (which she likely might not, as possibly she was not in the know, either from being kept ignorant or she actively sheltered herself from finding out).
One issue then is that in a fantasy game, evil people hardly ever are seen as victims. We all have met the 'killing goblin babies is a good act' debates. Having a family where every member is dark and twisted risks the same: that people may not be able to consider Noenel a victim as she is seen as an evil creature (rather than human).
I may be putting too much thought into this, and probably am looking at it a bit too much as a DM (or editor, if you prefer) trying to see the use or effects in a game.
It think some of this can be solved - and the background of the story made more significant in game - if Noenel kept a diary, to be discovered and possibly used against Boarrevarn. I expect even the rumor of such a diary would be cause for Boarrevarn to seek to obtain it will all means, and methinks Lady Bryarn may see possession of it as an opportunity to get a hold over her husband, especially of she does suspect he may wish to get rid of her for a younger wife.
Such a diary could also shed lights on the affair that could cast Noenel in any light needed for the story (victim or villain, or both).
Note that in my case that is a bit moot for this family, as I work in a different era and area. But I suggest to add the diary's existence - if only as a persistent rumor - to the lore.
Gomez
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 11:49:36
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Since it is my question, I guess I should try at least one answer:
Is it possible that the writer of 'Filfaeril Bound and Walking', is none other than good ol' doughy and dependable Maglanna? It's a wild guess, I know, but it seems to fit in with the clue our dear Lady THO gave... |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 14:29:36
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Not to beat the subject to death, but I can't resist adding my own two cents:
I did not see Noenel as freely being in union with her father--I see her entirely as a victim, and if she ever "consented" to his attentions, she probably only did so as a means of self-preservation (Stockholm Syndrome). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 03 Feb 2009 18:45:48 |
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A Gavel
Seeker
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 14:56:40
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Agreed.
On another topic: sorry, Menelvagor, I'm drawing a mental blank: who's Maglanna? Anyone?
Thank you. |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 15:43:44
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| She's the Matron of a certain floor in the palace. |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 17:05:00
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Elves, magic, and dragons I easily accept, but a fantasy world in which rape victims embrace their attackers with "attentive and gentle" love is one too much for me.
We can call it a dead horse though. I'm done.
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 18:28:40
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quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
Elves, magic, and dragons I easily accept, but a fantasy world in which rape victims embrace their attackers with "attentive and gentle" love is one too much for me.
We can call it a dead horse though. I'm done.
To be fair, in the whole realms this is the only example of that I have heard of. So to say "a fantasy world in which rape victims embrace their attackers with "attentive and gentle" love..." is an un-fair assesment of the whole setting.
It is an abnormality that has shown up in one instance over the Millions of words Ed has penned about the realms i think this handful is being given too much weight.
ed:sp |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 03 Feb 2009 18:29:35 |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 20:58:53
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
So to say "a fantasy world in which rape victims embrace their attackers with "attentive and gentle" love..." is an un-fair assesment of the whole setting.
I'm sorry. I was trying to keep it short, and that made it unclear. I wasn't making an assessment of the whole setting, or Ed, or Ed's entire corpus, just the worth of that one bit. I have a problem with that one sentence, and I think the response to Zandilar's question was inadequate. So I'll toss out that sentence, but keep the rest.
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 03:44:28
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Hello again, fellow scribes. Herewith, fresh from Ed’s pen, the third candidate noble family for Daviot to employ as the dastards who butchered cohort Lorna’s loved one (who was one of their own).
I give you . . . the Haldoneirs, in all their tainted glory!
House Haldoneir: [badge: the black silhouette of an upright, stylized (not recognizable as any particular known breed; it has a long, slender, almost crocodile-like snout) dragon’s head, facing to the left and with jaws parted to show the tip of a forked tongue and a ragged jet of flame spewing out of the mouth, that ends in a severed straight line at its bottom, said line having three teardrops of black blood depending from it, and a horizontal sword, point to the left, right underneath it; this device has always been known in the family as “the Wyrmdeath,” so the sword is clearly meant to have just severed the head from an unseen draconic body]
A very old human family of Cormyr, the Haldoneirs have tended to be tall, slender, and strikingly handsome, and have always been associated with warfare; hardy and long-lived, but few in numbers due to battlefield losses.
An archer, farmer, and sometime hiresword named Ryneth Haldoneir was part of Ondeth Obarskyr’s fledgling “farms by the shore” settlement, on the site of the future Suzail, and although the Haldoneirs were never leaders or particularly staunch loyalists, and weren’t ennobled for centuries after their arrival in what became Cormyr, nowadays they proudly claim to be one of the “founding families” of the Forest Kingdom, with “blood as regal as any family of the realm” (which of course carefully falls JUST shy of claiming to have blood as royal as the Obarskyrs, while trying to give the impression of that very claim).
Haldoneirs fought on behalf of the early Obarskyr kings, but it’s clear from the hereditary family height and build—plus occasional family members whose features look very elven—that more than a few early Haldoneirs reached their own “separate peace” with elves, taking elves as mates and bringing “much elven moonbright” into the family bloodlines.
There are also old family legends of dragontaming, but these are utter fiction (though the Haldoneirs of today may genuinely not know this), spun by minstrels of the family households centuries back because more than a dozen early Haldoneirs had suits of scale mail made for them that had dragonhead helms, barbs at their elbows, and other “dragonlike” stylings and accoutrements.
Haldoneirs have been members of the Purple Dragons down the centuries, and at times reached high ranks and positions of trust; at least three male Haldoneirs (Amandras, in the reign of Galaghard III; Baerlon, in the reign of Proster; and Galard, in the reign of Palaghard I) have served as Highknights (or equivalents; that is, knights who were trusted personal agents of the monarch).
One widowed Haldoneir, Lady Vaerestra, was a trusted advisor of King Dhalmass, (rightly) entrusted with secrets of the realm and as highly regarded by Jorunhast, the High Wizard of the day, as she was by the reigning monarch. She died deliberately shielding the king’s body, taking a poisoned dagger meant for him. (In recognition of this, Dhalmass ennobled the family, making her “plain soldier” son, Mreldon, the first Lord Haldoneir.)
Although almost every generation of Haldoneirs have sent sons into the ranks of the Purple Dragons (some rendering distinguished service, and some not), most latter-day Haldoneirs enjoy lives of ease, kept in abundant coin by the rents from their many urban properties (scores in Suzail, but hundreds in both Selgaunt and Urmlaspyr). They tend to maintain very haughty manners, literally sneering down their noses at most commoners they meet, and serve as the living epitome of the ridiculously overblown “proper highnoses” (that’s the Realms term; we might say “snotty noble”), exhibiting arrogance without any accomplishment—or in some cases, even basic competence—to back it up.
That’s not to say recent Haldoneirs have been entirely idle. This is a family whose members like to entertain themselves with mistresses or “brightlads” (male lovers set up in their own Suzailan houses just as mistresses are), dabble in various cults, conspiracies, and businesses (usually fads that fail, but including the occasional moneyspinning “hit”), and covertly giving coin to every merchant or noble cabal that seeks to curtail or circumvent royal powers.
Since early in the reign of Rhigaerd II, House Haldoneir has bitterly resented the demotion of Lord Esmarl Haldoneir from the post of Royal Privy Advisor (though Esmarl richly deserved his expulsion from power and favour at Court, being as he was supposed to be finding out truths for the king and instead had started taking bribes in return for passing the lies of the briber’s choice into the royal ear as “thoroughly-investigated and attested truths”). Since Esmarl’s disgrace, the Haldoneirs have been among the most energetic whisperers (in private, among nobles) of the view that “the Obarskyrs are not rightful rulers, they’re just the old-blood family that grasped the throne most ruthlessly, and have long since become so decadent and self-absorbed that they’ve lost all moral right to retain the Dragon Throne.” The royal family, thanks to Vangerdahast and his War Wizards as well as the personal reports of certain loyal nobles, are well aware of the views of the Haldoneirs, which is why they remain “shut out” of Court and largely ignored by the Crown.
The Haldoneirs, as a group, aren’t energetic enough to do anything active against the Crown; they merely bankroll others in small seditions and obstructions. Nevertheless, they are not far from being stripped of their noble status and exiled, though it’s rumoured that no less than two Lady Haldoneirs in a row begged Azoun IV not to disgrace their house in this manner, seducing him to give their pleadings great force. (This rumour is true; Azoun became VERY fond of Lady Aglathna, and came to regard her successor, Lady Ulandra, as a good and trusted friend, and did “stay his hand” at their behest - - though it’s also true that he allowed Vangerdahast to enspell him so that he’d father no Haldoneirs during his dalliances with either lady; something he very rarely allowed the Royal Magician to do to him.)
Throughout their history, the Haldoneirs have had some violent family quarrels, usually kept VERY quiet to keep “wider Cormyr” from gaining any hint of them, and several family members have been quietly murdered by kin.
Recently, a charismatic and clever family heir, Marluke Haldoneir, was slain slowly and painfully (dismembered over a period of days, with all his joints broken and the severings cauterized to keep him from bleeding to death and escaping all the suffering they had planned) by the rest of his family sometime in the summer of 1367 DR, in a Haldoneir-owned Sembian hunting lodge, because he’d gambled away (or lost in foolish business deals) many of the family properties in Sembia, leaving the freely-spending Haldoneirs suddenly very short of funds. The surviving Haldoneirs took to shadier business dealings in Sembia (with the Fire Knives and others) to try to swiftly make a lot of coin; for a year this made them profits - - and then plunged them into deeper debt the next year, which was when the most ruthless Haldoneirs decided to sell some of their family members (notably four daughters and two nieces) into slavery, and let the Fire Knives kill others (including the bookish, “hopelessly upright” second son, Flaernd [Daviot, if this family is your chosen one, this is Lorna’s guy] and two wealthy and successful Sembian-resident uncles) and take their property to offset much of the family debt.
As of the deaths of Flaernd and the two uncles, Baerand and Thruleon, House Haldoneir consists of an unknown number of “vanished” members down the years (most killed by misadventure or in battle, but some merely fled their family and Cormyr for better lives elsewhere, under new names - - or were sold into slavery, like the six young Haldoneir women who vanished in early 1369 DR: the daughters Asmrella, Dorlarra, Feaenrelle, and Paerelle, and the nieces Borlatha and Daunameire) and the following:
Lord Daeromur, the coldly sardonic, elegantly-moustachioed, wine and liqueur “aeravair” (we would say “connoisseur”) and patriarch of the family, a man driven by his cold, ardent hunger for various revenges, and opportunities to indulge his sadism (horsewhipping servants or family members when they’ve erred or displeased him is a common practice).
Under iron self-control when in public, he is oh-so-correct in his Court etiquette and remarks about the Crown and the royal family, but will spend coin and whisper suggestions and rumours in a flash if he believes he can create difficulties or “incidents” to make courtiers, War Wizards, or the Obarskyrs look bad or be exposed to danger.
Daeromur believes the Haldoneirs, as “true” nobles, have the right to do just as they please; laws are for lesser Cormyreans. Yet with another family on the Dragon Throne and their spies the War Wizards prying everywhere, he recognizes that his house must obey laws and royal authority in public, or pay the final price.
Daeromur would cheerfully kill any weak, foolish, or disloyal Haldoneir without hesitation, believing he can always sire replacements - - and he secretly believes the Obarskyrs should have long ago taken up the same view and habits (which would have served Cormyr far better).
Lady Taerenthe is a strikingly-beautiful, clever, swift-tongued and swifter-witted woman who is utterly ruthless, but believes the path to shining success is to endlessly entice and bewitch her lord husband and support his every whim, so that he values her above all other beings (besides himself).
In this she has succeeded, though she has spent small fortunes on various potions and magical procedures (often involving the lives of young, beautiful kidnapped females) on trying to retain youthful-looking beauty. She has ankle-length, glossy and wavy jet-black hair, large and liquid brown eyes, and ivory-white skin - - and she has Lord Daeromur wrapped around her little fingers, manipulating him so skillfully that he’s scarcely aware of it. When rage rises to consume him in the privacy of a Haldoneir home, she doffs her garments in an instant and offers herself to his whip until his arm is tired, whereupon he always thanks her for “knowing him so well,” and professes his love anew. Lady Taerenthe always carries healing potions with her, usually in chased metal containers hidden in her boots or worked into her belt or pectoral jewelry - - and she always carries a spare whip for her lord’s use, usually attached to her belt.
Taerenthe has some small natural sorcerous talent, which she keeps utterly secret from everyone. She has cached disguises, wealth, and even small useful magic items in dozens of places, in case she needs them in an emergency to flee her husband, her family, or even the realm.
She hopes to end her life wealthy and happy, either sharing the Dragon Throne with her husband or with the two of them holding high Court posts and the gratitude and trust of the ruler of Cormyr - - but she suspects the days of House Haldoneir retaining its noble standing in the Forest Kingdom are numbered, and is prepared to carve out a new life of luxury and status somewhere else.
Along the way, she is perfectly prepared to poison, stab, manipulate, lie, and otherwise glibly and unhesitatingly eliminate all impediments to her desires or House Haldoneir.
Lord Raskrel is (he believes) the sole surviving Haldoneir son, and the heir of the House. The laziest and most spineless of a family without scruples, he was a tirelessly wenching, drinking, prank-playing wastrel until his parents recently told him in private that he would die in agony if he didn’t become their loyal, diligent tool to further the family fortunes. If he would become utterly loyal to them, concealing NOTHING from them, and doing as they told him, he would inherit all. He agreed - - and was then plunged into helping to slay Marluke and watching Flaernd and “all the laughing ladies” of the family disposed of, leaving only himself. It was a sobering lesson, and ever since he has been VERY careful to obey his parents. This has led him to do more real work than ever in his life before, and made him glance over his shoulder every breath or so; he doesn’t even drop coins on a bed-lass for the night without obtaining his mother’s permission.
Although a handful of ruthless, carefully diplomatic factors (trade agents) hired by his mother do most of the family’s business deals (legitimate and otherwise) these days, Raskrel has several times been sent to murder or frame factors his mother wants to be rid of, and has done so, with ever-increasing confidence and competence.
If the Haldoneirs flourish for another six seasons or so, and he continues in his newfound roles of service, Raskrel might just become a formidable foe in his own right, rather than just a frightened wastrel doing what he’s told.
Lord Eldaun is “the hidden Haldoneir.” He vanished in a house fire when young, and all of his family except his mother Taerenthe (who spirited him away to be raised ignorant of his true name and heritage by a commoner couple in Westgate who believe she’s a fell mage named “Aumtelarra” rather than a Cormyrean noblewoman) think him dead and gone. Even the War Wizards don’t suspect Eldaun Haldoneir is still alive.
To Taerenthe, Eldaun is her “heir up her sleeve,” to restore the house if anyone tries to exterminate it, or even to lead an army to claim the Dragon Throne if the Obarskyrs strip the Haldoneirs of their status or execute the male Haldoneirs. If in time to come Daeromur should die and Raskrel die or turn against her, Eldaun will be Taerenthe’s replacement - - she’ll even marry him if she thinks that will be the best means of controlling him. She’s thought of many schemes for the future involving him, but of course circumstances will suggest the best one, if any.
As of 1369 DR, the Haldoneir family holdings are much diminished (what with Marluke’s losses and what the Fire Knives took after the death of Flaernd and the grand houses the nieces had dwelt in), but they still retain Wyrmdown, a large country estate and mansion in Cormyr (due northeast of Immersea; on the foldout colour map that came with the 2e CORMYR sourcebook, it’s straight north of the “R” in the “Immersea” tag on the map, about a third of the way between the Immer Trail and the oval denoting Blisterfoot Inn); Ormvraezel Keep, a small castle with a hunting forest and extensive farms, in upland northwestern Sembia; Boarhunt Towers, a hunting lodge in upland central Sembia that has its own expansive wild forest; High Oronel, a grand Suzail mansion; and also secretly maintain at least three more modest townhomes in Suzail (plus more than a dozen abodes of mistresses and brightlads) as well as two apartments (in their own rental-quarters buildings) in Marsember.
And there you have it; our third candidate noble family. Enjoy, I hope.
So saith Ed. Tireless crafter of villainous noble families.
And nicer ones, too.
love to all,
THO
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 03:54:55
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Wow, I'm loving this lore.
And my eyeballs came to a screeching halt at the end, when I read "Boarhunt Towers." Ed, I sat in on a game you ran (set in the Realms, of course) as an observer, at a GenCon in Milwaukee not long before the con relocated to Indy - - and the setting was the forests belonging to a certain Boarhunt Towers!!!
The same place, right? Does this mean the Haldoneirs bought it after the murder of its Sembian owner, that took place in your adventure? Or - - -?
It's GREAT when you see the vast tapestry of the Realms being woven together, right in front of your eyes. 
Thanks!
BB |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 03:58:36
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Heh. I can answer you, Blueblade, on this one. (Why? Well, as it happens, I already asked Ed about this. )
After Asmrathan Lharleld's murder, House Haldoneir SEIZED Boarhunt, because they were his principal creditors.
Oh, and Menelvagor: Ed laughed uproariously at your guess, said it was GREAT - - but, sorry, wrong, too.
Ah, well. NEXT time.
love to all,
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 04 Feb 2009 03:59:19 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 05:48:07
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
This is a family whose members like to entertain themselves with mistresses or “brightlads” (male lovers set up in their own Suzailan houses just as mistresses are),
So do they use the word "mistress" then? Or is there a Realms version of the word, perhaps "brightlass"? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 06:04:54
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Hey Ed. Here's another question I'll probably add to my growing list... Actually, it was brought about from your most recent reply here.
Any chance you can provide some further info on the holdings of House Haldoneir?
They sound like a suitable addition to a potential side-quest in my current Realms campaign. In fact, Lord Daeromur fits the exact type of NPC I've been looking for.  |
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 07:00:51
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Heya,
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Lady Taerenthe is a strikingly-beautiful, clever, swift-tongued and swifter-witted woman who is utterly ruthless, but believes the path to shining success is to endlessly entice and bewitch her lord husband and support his every whim, so that he values her above all other beings (besides himself).
From which family did this charming ( ) lady come from originally?
quote:
Lord Eldaun is “the hidden Haldoneir.” He vanished in a house fire when young, and all of his family except his mother Taerenthe (who spirited him away to be raised ignorant of his true name and heritage by a commoner couple in Westgate who believe she’s a fell mage named “Aumtelarra” rather than a Cormyrean noblewoman) think him dead and gone. Even the War Wizards don’t suspect Eldaun Haldoneir is still alive.
This is a big risk. Does she have some way of ensuring he grows up to meet the standards of the family? Otherwise, she could well end up with a son who doesn't care for nobility or have a taste for intrigue and scheming, or one who cannot be easily controlled (for example - he becomes a paladin of Torm). Nature only accounts for so much in a person. |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 15:07:35
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Wow, one family generating so many questions!
And, not to be outdone, mine's in regards to Lord Eldaun. Being raised away from the family, I'm wondering what he's like. Away from all the politics, is he untainted from the machinations of his blood? Or has hereditary influence reared it's ugly head?
Also, I'm assuming that Lady Taerenthe keeps a couple of eyes on him to make sure he stays healthy. Does this mean secret bodyguards and such? Does he suspect anything of his birthright? |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 15:36:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Wow, one family generating so many questions!
Yeah, I have to admit, I was also wondering where Lady Taerenthe came from, as well.
I was also wondering if the daughters and nieces who were sold into slavery were nice (or even "upright") like Flaernd was. Tell us about them. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 16:21:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Not to beat the subject to death, but I can't resist adding my own two cents:
I did not see Noenel as freely being in union with her father--I see her entirely as a victim, and if she ever "consented" to his attentions, she probably only did so as a means of self-preservation (Stockholm Syndrome).
EXACTLY.
That is why we have a crime called 'statutory rape' in this country - it is quite easy to victimize some innocent into believing what you are doing is "out of love", when in fact you are jeopardizing the emotional well-being of a child. 'Consent' in this case does not equate to 'accomplice', and therefore no guilt is applied to the victim.
Now, I have no idea who you are talking about here, or her age of involvment, but it boils down to the same thing no matter what age she is - he is a predator, and she was fooled into thinking she was a willing participant. The mind has a wonderful ability of self-delusion when confronterd with unpleasant situations. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Feb 2009 16:25:33 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 17:25:29
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Hi, all.
Whew; off all these queries go to Ed.
Wooly, I can say up front that there are several Realms words for "mistress," and "brightlass" is one of them, but it has broadened over the years to also mean something like "good time girl" (or "party girl" or "fun-loving girl"), too, so it probably wouldn't be the appropriate one here (as both the mistress and the noble patron would probably prefer to use a word meaning something like "dignified lady of refinement who's romantically involved with one patron, NOT every willing person who happens by").
So we'll see which word Ed opts for.
Words, words . . . there's a reason "words" can be rearranged into "sword."
love to all,
THO |
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panics
Acolyte
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 20:54:23
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Hi,
I have a question for Ed about Tethyr. Don't know if its a part of the realms that he created...
I would like to know more about the Wealdath, the Elmanesse and Suldusk. Do they live together or could be in war ? Could it be possible to have drows in Wealdath ? What kind of creature can we encounter and finally what the Wealdath look like (in Earth form, Sekoya forest) ?
Also, The Small Teeth would look like which kind of mountnain range ? (Appalache ? the Rockies ?)
Thanks |
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createvmind
Senior Scribe
490 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 21:49:27
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It seems the sex topic really strikes a nerve in the context of a man dominating his daughter, almost every family or situation Ed has described deals with some form of domination, coercion or straight subjugation. Why is sexual assualts frowned on more by players than mental and physical subjugation? Yet I've had many a player pick a half-orc, half-drow and half-fiend templates KNOWING that this means their human parent has victimized by force or through deception and often writing their back story describing such violations. These very same players then cringe if such a situation is described in game, but endless violence and non sexual depravity disturbs not at all. In fact the degree to which they can engage in bloodletting, searching through dead remains often leaves me a little disturbed.
Ed and Lady has this ever created issues within your gaming over the years?
I find it interesting he mentioned that Lady Taerenthe amongst her other dastardly plotting may even marry her own son to further her agenda yet as of yet no outrage posted for her thought process.
Is there any victimless beings in faerun period, someone who is not suffering some form of Stockholm Syndrome as previous poster stated or is the outrage again more because its male subjecting female?
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2009)
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