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 More Obarskyr Lineage Lore?
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2008 :  21:36:36  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Poll Question:
By this I'm thinking specifically of royal in-laws and the Royal Houses (Crownsilver, Huntsilver, Truesilver). We know that the Royal Houses were created by marriage of the brothers of kings to the daughters of Jaquor and Tristan Silver, but we don't know the daughters' names. There was a posting on the REALMS-L mailing list a while back that gave us a few more royal spouse names, but nothing resembling a complete list, even with the complete royal succession in GHotR. So, the question I'm asking is:

Do you want more lore regarding the Obarskyr family lineage?

Choices:

Bring it on! There''s no such thing as too much lore!
Sure; it would be interesting.
Whatever.
Nah. There''s too much lore as it is.
Are you kidding? Secrets/NDAs are meant to be kept forever!

(Anonymous Vote)

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

sfdragon
Great Reader

2249 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2008 :  23:15:14  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
yeah more lore...


indeed

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33613 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2008 :  23:45:03  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am always in favor of more lore.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  00:57:53  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Something that builds on Jerry Davis's original compilation of the "Nobility of Cormyr" from the REALMS-L? Why yes, I'd love to see something like that.

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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe

USA
387 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  02:36:59  Show Profile  Visit Nerfed2Hell's Homepage Send Nerfed2Hell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gravy!

Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile.
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  02:47:58  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Something that builds on Jerry Davis's original compilation of the "Nobility of Cormyr" from the REALMS-L? Why yes, I'd love to see something like that.



That's exactly the kind of thing I want, Sage. I love that list, and I want more! More, I say!

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1796 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  06:19:40  Show Profile  Click to see Purple Dragon Knight's MSN Messenger address Send Purple Dragon Knight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Whatever
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  09:20:17  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
PDK!? I thought you would be one of the yes votes, seeing as we're talking about pre-$ellplague lore... or are you of the opinion that Wizbro won't ever let pre-$ellplague lore see the light of day now?

Edit: Or have you jumped ship completely for Pathfinder's world as well? I thought about that... but I know and love the Realms pre-$ellplague, and I have more than enough lore between my own library and the good stuff available online that creating my own consistent lore to fit my campaign is far easier than getting into an entirely new world. I love the Pathfinder rule set, and I'll be buying it as soon as it hits the stands, but I'll wait and see how much free cash I have available before I commit to a new world.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 19 Oct 2008 09:26:34
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arry
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
317 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  11:54:14  Show Profile Send arry a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would love to see more Obarskyr lore; more lore is what Candlekeep is about after all!

Sadly I don't think that WotC would ever do anything relating to 3e FR again. As far as I can see 3e FR is dead in the eyes of WotC.
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe

USA
521 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  14:45:59  Show Profile  Visit GRYPHON's Homepage Send GRYPHON a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bring it on...
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Kamuraki
Learned Scribe

USA
78 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  16:12:20  Show Profile  Visit Kamuraki's Homepage Send Kamuraki a Private Message  Reply with Quote
More Obarskyr lore invariably means more sex, which I am always in favor of, sooo....

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

- Douglas Adams
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1796 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  18:24:21  Show Profile  Click to see Purple Dragon Knight's MSN Messenger address Send Purple Dragon Knight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

PDK!? I thought you would be one of the yes votes, seeing as we're talking about pre-$ellplague lore... or are you of the opinion that Wizbro won't ever let pre-$ellplague lore see the light of day now?

Edit: Or have you jumped ship completely for Pathfinder's world as well? I thought about that... but I know and love the Realms pre-$ellplague, and I have more than enough lore between my own library and the good stuff available online that creating my own consistent lore to fit my campaign is far easier than getting into an entirely new world. I love the Pathfinder rule set, and I'll be buying it as soon as it hits the stands, but I'll wait and see how much free cash I have available before I commit to a new world.

Yes Jakk. It has come down to this. Believe me when I say that I was one of the most ardent Cormyr fans... but now thinking about any parts of the Realms brings me feelings of apathy. I've just had it with the Realms.

I guess it's WotC = 1, PDK = 0. They have started to achieve what they wanted: to shake off what's left of the grognard bunch. I'm not the first to let go, but I suspect I won't be the last either.

So, what is it now? 20 years of Realms fun? yeah, I think so: 1988 to 2008. I will keep running the Cormyr/Shadowdale/Anauroc hardcover adventures for the benefit of my players, out of respect... but I'm done buying new Realms product, both pre or post Sellplague. I had originally envision to backorder the pre-Sellplague novels I haven't yet bought, but I decided to save my money for Golarion products instead. If I can't be satisfied with the thousands of Realms dollars I've spent over these last 20 years, I'll never be.

So this is it. Goodbye Realms! We had a good run together but it's time to move on from each other. You're going in a new direction, and I don't like it. I won't stifle you by hanging around, so spread these wings and go date a thousand of new, younger guys that are in better shape than me, and who can keep up with that crazy train of yours.

Love,

PDK
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Kamuraki
Learned Scribe

USA
78 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  18:40:42  Show Profile  Visit Kamuraki's Homepage Send Kamuraki a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have to add this. Does anyone else, when they picture Azoun, also hear him saying in a very Mel Brookes style, "It's good to be da king".

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

- Douglas Adams
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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  23:14:59  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Stories set in monarchies create meaning through interplay between the notional moral centres of the royal office, the nation's ideals, and the actions and nature of particular kings or queens and political situations.

With royal lineages this works in multiple layers by creating echoes between current and past royal situations, such as through popular memory (which may obscure different, newly discovered historical realities). This layered, at times fractal structure has been used to great effect in Cormyr: A Novel and its follow-ups.

So publishing the Cormyte royal lineage would finally make actual what was long ago promised by the 1987 Obarskyr family tree but has stayed largely notional except to people privy to private material or willing to needlessly develop a lot of liable-to-contradiction lore on their own. It would be a great boon to anyone who wants to get the most out of Cormyr.

Without it, we're so near yet so far.

At the same time, I feel that disproportionate attention has been spent on Cormyr's monarchy and nobility, so that publishing this document would in some ways enable us to move on. It's no more than artistically responsible to at least in some way finish the stories of characters you introduce -- Obarskyr, -ahast -- rather than giving them up for new ones.

Edited by - Faraer on 19 Oct 2008 23:27:15
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  23:26:41  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kamuraki

I have to add this. Does anyone else, when they picture Azoun, also hear him saying in a very Mel Brookes style, "It's good to be da king".



No, and not even your raising of the possibility changes that. I've loved the Time Lord debates, though... ooh! What if the ghazneths are/were Krillitanes from the "School Reunion" episode in the 2006 season? Okay; not going any further off topic. I'll have to move that suggestion to the Doctor's scroll.

Edit: Suggestion copied.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 19 Oct 2008 23:30:20
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2008 :  03:26:10  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted yes.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2008 :  19:51:01  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer

Stories set in monarchies create meaning through interplay between the notional moral centres of the royal office, the nation's ideals, and the actions and nature of particular kings or queens and political situations.

With royal lineages this works in multiple layers by creating echoes between current and past royal situations, such as through popular memory (which may obscure different, newly discovered historical realities). This layered, at times fractal structure has been used to great effect in Cormyr: A Novel and its follow-ups.

So publishing the Cormyte royal lineage would finally make actual what was long ago promised by the 1987 Obarskyr family tree but has stayed largely notional except to people privy to private material or willing to needlessly develop a lot of liable-to-contradiction lore on their own. It would be a great boon to anyone who wants to get the most out of Cormyr.

Without it, we're so near yet so far.

At the same time, I feel that disproportionate attention has been spent on Cormyr's monarchy and nobility, so that publishing this document would in some ways enable us to move on. It's no more than artistically responsible to at least in some way finish the stories of characters you introduce -- Obarskyr, -ahast -- rather than giving them up for new ones.



Thank you for your insightful comments, Faraer. I originally missed them due to being involved in composing my own post at the time. I feel much the same way, and I have reached the point that, if this (and other) historical information were made available, I would embrace the new canon (just not in my current campaign) and make the Great Leap Forward. I'm not saying I'd keep *everything* that was done, but I would at least be willing to buy the books... and that's what Wizbro wants us to do, right? So: to any designers who might read this scroll: Make it known to those who make the decisions that more history details will make us more willing to embrace the future.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 20 Oct 2008 19:53:42
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe

Netherlands
423 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2008 :  20:21:21  Show Profile  Visit Tyranthraxus's Homepage  Click to see Tyranthraxus's MSN Messenger address Send Tyranthraxus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted yes. I especially would like to see something about feudalism in Cormyr.
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2008 :  22:49:06  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus

I voted yes. I especially would like to see something about feudalism in Cormyr.



There is an article somewhere... I copied it... mentioning that very thing... in brief: "True" feudalism does not exist in Cormyr. All citizens are direct subjects of the King, not of their local nobles. Nobles cannot give out lesser titles, except for a limited number for possible heirs and other family members, IIRC.

Search Ed Greenwood's scrolls in the Chamber of Sages for the details, as I believe it was one that Ed and THO handled relatively recently. Easiest: Google the terms "Cormyr" and "feudalism" in Advanced Search, limiting your results to the domain forum.candlekeep.com. (I learned that trick from scribe Christopher_Rowe a couple of weeks ago; thank you again!) Good luck in your search; if I find it, I'll post the link here.

Edit: Not the one I'm thinking of, but there's a bit at the bottom of this page: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5812&whichpage=79

Edit2: I found it, but it's a file saved from the REALMS-L mailing list, and I don't have the original URL. It's from the six-part article by Jerry Davis (referred to in passing above) detailing the nobility of Cormyr. The relevant paragraph is copied below; maybe another scribe can help you with a link to the full original file(s).

quote:

Cormyr is not a truly feudal state; it is a centralized kingdom-state in which all political power and authority flows from the Obarskyr reigning monarch directly to each subject of the realm. Only the reigning monarch may bestow noble titles and demand allegiance - no noble may ennoble others with titles of lesser rank, nor may he demand personal allegiance or fealty from lesser nobles or commoners. Two general types of titles exist: ordinary (or hereditary) and extraordinary (or life-titles not passed on). Even though there is no truly feudal system of hierarchical allegiances, a titular hierarchy still exists after a fashion. The reigning monarch may grant a title to the head of a house for a particular area of land, then that noble will parcel out lesser noble titles to parts of his land to family members (usually his direct children) as "courtesy titles" in cooperation with the Heralds who govern the rules by which heraldry operates. Some number of additional lesser courtesy titles will be created and held in reserve for future children to make sure the supply of courtesy titles is never exhausted. (See the example given in PoF,p.12.) When a titled noble dies, everyone below the deceased within the family hierarchy will graduate to the next higher title.



Hope this helps.

Edit: I found the link; I'll fiddle with it until I can get it to work. Enjoy!

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11294

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 20 Oct 2008 23:18:54
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2008 :  22:23:35  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by arry

I would love to see more Obarskyr lore; more lore is what Candlekeep is about after all!


I agree! I just hope that WotC agrees as well...

quote:
Originally posted by arry
Sadly I don't think that WotC would ever do anything relating to 3e FR again. As far as I can see 3e FR is dead in the eyes of WotC.



Sadly, I believe you're right. Still, that means that they have no reason to keep the information hidden any longer, and can now share it with the fans, right?

Edit: Yay! My 350th post! [/sarcasm]

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 23 Oct 2008 22:26:46
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2008 :  04:10:01  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm late in some of these polls lol...more lore on anything and everything, so yes more lore on the Obarskyrs.

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe

Greece
581 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2008 :  21:51:25  Show Profile  Visit BARDOBARBAROS's Homepage Send BARDOBARBAROS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bring it on! There''s no such thing as too much lore!

BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!


"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2)
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2008 :  05:03:00  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the votes, all... better late than never, I always say. Ed hints in his scroll that we may be seeing something on the Cormyr lineage document soon... "soon" being a relative term, of course, so I'm not expecting it for Christmas, but it would be the best Christmas present I could get from WotC apart from a "mea culpa" on the Spellplague, which I don't think will happen. Anyway, to the mods: I'd like this poll to stay open until the Cormyr lineage document is released, if that's okay; I'm trying to suppress my vitriol regarding the Spellplague to make this possible, but said vitriol has largely exhausted itself anyway. It's happened, it's done, and it's severed my (and others') Realms from current canon lore irrevocably.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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