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 More Obarskyr Lineage Lore?

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Jakk Posted - 18 Oct 2008 : 21:36:36
By this I'm thinking specifically of royal in-laws and the Royal Houses (Crownsilver, Huntsilver, Truesilver). We know that the Royal Houses were created by marriage of the brothers of kings to the daughters of Jaquor and Tristan Silver, but we don't know the daughters' names. There was a posting on the REALMS-L mailing list a while back that gave us a few more royal spouse names, but nothing resembling a complete list, even with the complete royal succession in GHotR. So, the question I'm asking is:

Do you want more lore regarding the Obarskyr family lineage?
22   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Jakk Posted - 27 Nov 2008 : 05:03:00
Thanks for the votes, all... better late than never, I always say. Ed hints in his scroll that we may be seeing something on the Cormyr lineage document soon... "soon" being a relative term, of course, so I'm not expecting it for Christmas, but it would be the best Christmas present I could get from WotC apart from a "mea culpa" on the Spellplague, which I don't think will happen. Anyway, to the mods: I'd like this poll to stay open until the Cormyr lineage document is released, if that's okay; I'm trying to suppress my vitriol regarding the Spellplague to make this possible, but said vitriol has largely exhausted itself anyway. It's happened, it's done, and it's severed my (and others') Realms from current canon lore irrevocably.
BARDOBARBAROS Posted - 26 Nov 2008 : 21:51:25
Bring it on! There''s no such thing as too much lore!
Alisttair Posted - 26 Nov 2008 : 04:10:01
I'm late in some of these polls lol...more lore on anything and everything, so yes more lore on the Obarskyrs.
Jakk Posted - 23 Oct 2008 : 22:23:35
quote:
Originally posted by arry

I would love to see more Obarskyr lore; more lore is what Candlekeep is about after all!


I agree! I just hope that WotC agrees as well...

quote:
Originally posted by arry
Sadly I don't think that WotC would ever do anything relating to 3e FR again. As far as I can see 3e FR is dead in the eyes of WotC.



Sadly, I believe you're right. Still, that means that they have no reason to keep the information hidden any longer, and can now share it with the fans, right?

Edit: Yay! My 350th post! [/sarcasm]
Jakk Posted - 20 Oct 2008 : 22:49:06
quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus

I voted yes. I especially would like to see something about feudalism in Cormyr.



There is an article somewhere... I copied it... mentioning that very thing... in brief: "True" feudalism does not exist in Cormyr. All citizens are direct subjects of the King, not of their local nobles. Nobles cannot give out lesser titles, except for a limited number for possible heirs and other family members, IIRC.

Search Ed Greenwood's scrolls in the Chamber of Sages for the details, as I believe it was one that Ed and THO handled relatively recently. Easiest: Google the terms "Cormyr" and "feudalism" in Advanced Search, limiting your results to the domain forum.candlekeep.com. (I learned that trick from scribe Christopher_Rowe a couple of weeks ago; thank you again!) Good luck in your search; if I find it, I'll post the link here.

Edit: Not the one I'm thinking of, but there's a bit at the bottom of this page: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5812&whichpage=79

Edit2: I found it, but it's a file saved from the REALMS-L mailing list, and I don't have the original URL. It's from the six-part article by Jerry Davis (referred to in passing above) detailing the nobility of Cormyr. The relevant paragraph is copied below; maybe another scribe can help you with a link to the full original file(s).

quote:

Cormyr is not a truly feudal state; it is a centralized kingdom-state in which all political power and authority flows from the Obarskyr reigning monarch directly to each subject of the realm. Only the reigning monarch may bestow noble titles and demand allegiance - no noble may ennoble others with titles of lesser rank, nor may he demand personal allegiance or fealty from lesser nobles or commoners. Two general types of titles exist: ordinary (or hereditary) and extraordinary (or life-titles not passed on). Even though there is no truly feudal system of hierarchical allegiances, a titular hierarchy still exists after a fashion. The reigning monarch may grant a title to the head of a house for a particular area of land, then that noble will parcel out lesser noble titles to parts of his land to family members (usually his direct children) as "courtesy titles" in cooperation with the Heralds who govern the rules by which heraldry operates. Some number of additional lesser courtesy titles will be created and held in reserve for future children to make sure the supply of courtesy titles is never exhausted. (See the example given in PoF,p.12.) When a titled noble dies, everyone below the deceased within the family hierarchy will graduate to the next higher title.



Hope this helps.

Edit: I found the link; I'll fiddle with it until I can get it to work. Enjoy!

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11294
Tyranthraxus Posted - 20 Oct 2008 : 20:21:21
I voted yes. I especially would like to see something about feudalism in Cormyr.
Jakk Posted - 20 Oct 2008 : 19:51:01
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer

Stories set in monarchies create meaning through interplay between the notional moral centres of the royal office, the nation's ideals, and the actions and nature of particular kings or queens and political situations.

With royal lineages this works in multiple layers by creating echoes between current and past royal situations, such as through popular memory (which may obscure different, newly discovered historical realities). This layered, at times fractal structure has been used to great effect in Cormyr: A Novel and its follow-ups.

So publishing the Cormyte royal lineage would finally make actual what was long ago promised by the 1987 Obarskyr family tree but has stayed largely notional except to people privy to private material or willing to needlessly develop a lot of liable-to-contradiction lore on their own. It would be a great boon to anyone who wants to get the most out of Cormyr.

Without it, we're so near yet so far.

At the same time, I feel that disproportionate attention has been spent on Cormyr's monarchy and nobility, so that publishing this document would in some ways enable us to move on. It's no more than artistically responsible to at least in some way finish the stories of characters you introduce -- Obarskyr, -ahast -- rather than giving them up for new ones.



Thank you for your insightful comments, Faraer. I originally missed them due to being involved in composing my own post at the time. I feel much the same way, and I have reached the point that, if this (and other) historical information were made available, I would embrace the new canon (just not in my current campaign) and make the Great Leap Forward. I'm not saying I'd keep *everything* that was done, but I would at least be willing to buy the books... and that's what Wizbro wants us to do, right? So: to any designers who might read this scroll: Make it known to those who make the decisions that more history details will make us more willing to embrace the future.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin Posted - 20 Oct 2008 : 03:26:10
I voted yes.
Jakk Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 23:26:41
quote:
Originally posted by Kamuraki

I have to add this. Does anyone else, when they picture Azoun, also hear him saying in a very Mel Brookes style, "It's good to be da king".



No, and not even your raising of the possibility changes that. I've loved the Time Lord debates, though... ooh! What if the ghazneths are/were Krillitanes from the "School Reunion" episode in the 2006 season? Okay; not going any further off topic. I'll have to move that suggestion to the Doctor's scroll.

Edit: Suggestion copied.
Faraer Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 23:14:59
Stories set in monarchies create meaning through interplay between the notional moral centres of the royal office, the nation's ideals, and the actions and nature of particular kings or queens and political situations.

With royal lineages this works in multiple layers by creating echoes between current and past royal situations, such as through popular memory (which may obscure different, newly discovered historical realities). This layered, at times fractal structure has been used to great effect in Cormyr: A Novel and its follow-ups.

So publishing the Cormyte royal lineage would finally make actual what was long ago promised by the 1987 Obarskyr family tree but has stayed largely notional except to people privy to private material or willing to needlessly develop a lot of liable-to-contradiction lore on their own. It would be a great boon to anyone who wants to get the most out of Cormyr.

Without it, we're so near yet so far.

At the same time, I feel that disproportionate attention has been spent on Cormyr's monarchy and nobility, so that publishing this document would in some ways enable us to move on. It's no more than artistically responsible to at least in some way finish the stories of characters you introduce -- Obarskyr, -ahast -- rather than giving them up for new ones.
Kamuraki Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 18:40:42
I have to add this. Does anyone else, when they picture Azoun, also hear him saying in a very Mel Brookes style, "It's good to be da king".
Purple Dragon Knight Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 18:24:21
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

PDK!? I thought you would be one of the yes votes, seeing as we're talking about pre-$ellplague lore... or are you of the opinion that Wizbro won't ever let pre-$ellplague lore see the light of day now?

Edit: Or have you jumped ship completely for Pathfinder's world as well? I thought about that... but I know and love the Realms pre-$ellplague, and I have more than enough lore between my own library and the good stuff available online that creating my own consistent lore to fit my campaign is far easier than getting into an entirely new world. I love the Pathfinder rule set, and I'll be buying it as soon as it hits the stands, but I'll wait and see how much free cash I have available before I commit to a new world.

Yes Jakk. It has come down to this. Believe me when I say that I was one of the most ardent Cormyr fans... but now thinking about any parts of the Realms brings me feelings of apathy. I've just had it with the Realms.

I guess it's WotC = 1, PDK = 0. They have started to achieve what they wanted: to shake off what's left of the grognard bunch. I'm not the first to let go, but I suspect I won't be the last either.

So, what is it now? 20 years of Realms fun? yeah, I think so: 1988 to 2008. I will keep running the Cormyr/Shadowdale/Anauroc hardcover adventures for the benefit of my players, out of respect... but I'm done buying new Realms product, both pre or post Sellplague. I had originally envision to backorder the pre-Sellplague novels I haven't yet bought, but I decided to save my money for Golarion products instead. If I can't be satisfied with the thousands of Realms dollars I've spent over these last 20 years, I'll never be.

So this is it. Goodbye Realms! We had a good run together but it's time to move on from each other. You're going in a new direction, and I don't like it. I won't stifle you by hanging around, so spread these wings and go date a thousand of new, younger guys that are in better shape than me, and who can keep up with that crazy train of yours.

Love,

PDK
Kamuraki Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 16:12:20
More Obarskyr lore invariably means more sex, which I am always in favor of, sooo....
GRYPHON Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 14:45:59
Bring it on...
arry Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 11:54:14
I would love to see more Obarskyr lore; more lore is what Candlekeep is about after all!

Sadly I don't think that WotC would ever do anything relating to 3e FR again. As far as I can see 3e FR is dead in the eyes of WotC.
Jakk Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 09:20:17
PDK!? I thought you would be one of the yes votes, seeing as we're talking about pre-$ellplague lore... or are you of the opinion that Wizbro won't ever let pre-$ellplague lore see the light of day now?

Edit: Or have you jumped ship completely for Pathfinder's world as well? I thought about that... but I know and love the Realms pre-$ellplague, and I have more than enough lore between my own library and the good stuff available online that creating my own consistent lore to fit my campaign is far easier than getting into an entirely new world. I love the Pathfinder rule set, and I'll be buying it as soon as it hits the stands, but I'll wait and see how much free cash I have available before I commit to a new world.
Purple Dragon Knight Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 06:19:40
Whatever
Jakk Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 02:47:58
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Something that builds on Jerry Davis's original compilation of the "Nobility of Cormyr" from the REALMS-L? Why yes, I'd love to see something like that.



That's exactly the kind of thing I want, Sage. I love that list, and I want more! More, I say!
Nerfed2Hell Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 02:36:59
Gravy!
The Sage Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 00:57:53
Something that builds on Jerry Davis's original compilation of the "Nobility of Cormyr" from the REALMS-L? Why yes, I'd love to see something like that.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 18 Oct 2008 : 23:45:03
I am always in favor of more lore.
sfdragon Posted - 18 Oct 2008 : 23:15:14
yeah more lore...


indeed

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