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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Sep 2008 : 22:00:10
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Well met, good gentles!
Now that we’ve had a bit of time with the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, and the Player’s Guide is out on the shelves, folks have had a chance to look over the Realms of 1479 DR and begin to come to terms with the changes therein. Obviously, some people like the new lore more than others (to say that some here on Candlekeep are dissatisfied would be a tremendous understatement), and no one can argue that the face of Toril has changed quite a bit.
That said, I’ve decided to engage in a little project. Taking a view similar to someone who has been “asleep” these last 104 years, I’m going to spend some Mondays (not necessarily every week) examining a specific topic in the Realms of 4E, and trying to build a bridge between what was and what is. Once I’ve finished a topic, I’ll give some time “monitoring” questions and comments on the subject—probably a month or so—and then move on to covering other issues. After that, I’ll visit occasionally, but I can only juggle so many things at once.
Before we begin this experiment, though, I’ve established some ground rules for myself:
Respect what has come before.
This means that I can’t ignore any lore of which I am aware, although I can tweak and twist and massage it to fit my purposes.
The Events of the Spellplague and Those Described in 4E’s FRCG and FRPG Happened
Following my first rule, I will not toss out any changes from the 4E books, whether I like them or not. In fact, I’m not even planning on discussing my opinions of the changes. Rather, I’m going with the same assumption I always have when writing Realmslore: the events as depicted in official products are part of the real history of the Forgotten Realms, for good or ill.
Don’t Pretend That It’s Official
This is both a restricting and a freeing guideline. On the one hand, anything I talk about on this is going to be a “fan creation”—as such, I will not talk about anything I’ve had a hand in creating officially (Cormyr, for example, is entirely out. Sorry.). On the other hand, I can focus on the lore and not worry about the “playability” of my decisions. Win some, lose others.
Don’t Kill the Not-Dead
I can’t kill off anyone that’s not specifically listed as dead—except for deities listed as missing or otherwise inactive in 4E.
Don’t Spoil the Fun
Characters that belong to others are hands off. Similarly, deities that a single author is dealing with via their Chosen (namely Mask/Erevis in the case of Paul Kemp, and Deneir/Cadderly in the case of Bob Salvatore) I will not touch.
With the Rules® laid out, I can talk about the ideas I’d like to cover in my Musings.
The changes in the pantheon are some of the largest upheavals in the new Realms, and involve some of the most complicated examinations, so I’ll be starting there.
First on my list is Angharradh and the Seldarine. Following that, I'll be addressing these issues (in roughly the order listed):
Mulhorandi Pantheon
Orc Pantheon
The Gods of Magic
Halfling Pantheon
Gnome Pantheon
-Dwarven Pantheon
-Drow Pantheon
-Monster Pantheons I: On Dragons and their Ilk
-Monster Pantheons II: The Return of Sseth
-Monster Pantheons III: Goblinoids and Kobolds
-Monster Pantheons IV: Giants, Titans and Primordials
-Monster Pantheons V: Aberrations and Others
-Deity Wrap-up: Undisclosed
As I go along, I'll replace the above-listed topics with hyperlinks to the appropriate threads. Once the deities are done, I'll be moving along to another topic, if I feel that the response is worth the additional effort.
I'm excited, are you excited?
BC
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Edited by - Garen Thal on 10 Nov 2008 18:27:42
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2008 : 22:19:47
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I'm definitely interested, BC! I've enjoyed reading your previous musings and appreciate your willingness to share!  |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2008 : 22:22:53
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Wow, Garen! I´m preparing my best scrolls, inks and pens to start to scribe your lore in a good and useful tome!
I´m excited! ^^ |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2008 : 23:43:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
I'm excited, are you excited?
I'm interested. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Lord Nemes
Seeker
Canada
58 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2008 : 03:23:04
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Hi,
I'm also interested, it's always a good start to have explanations when changes hapens.
Looking foward to see you work. |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2008 : 06:11:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
I'm excited, are you excited?
BC
Of course! Sounds like a big chunk of carefully researched lore - where is the scribe who would not be thrilled?  |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2008 : 06:16:23
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| Most Excellent! |
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Amraz one arm
Acolyte
Netherlands
42 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2008 : 12:13:00
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| Most interested, exciting is something else... |
"You smell human to me." |
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2008 : 17:04:10
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I wont appreciate your work because i wont read it. Anything that bridge the realms to what WotC has done is a waste of time to read for me. What i respect is the time your are willing to dedicate to something you believe in... that i appreciate.
Good luck on your project. |
Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 16:34:11
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| I'm very interested. I enjoy the exercise of bridging what appear to be gaps in lore. Even though I'm not going to play in 4E anytime in the near future I'm sure that I'll get useful tid bits out of the ideas. :) |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 20:38:33
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| Count me among those who are interested and excited by this prospect. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 22:24:06
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| I am with Patrakis on this one: I'm not interested in anything related to 4E, but I applaud your dedication! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 00:11:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
I'm excited, are you excited?
BC
Thoughts of you always excite me, Brian. 
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 14:33:23
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
I'm excited, are you excited?
BC
Thoughts of you always excite me, Brian.
-- George Krashos
I, um, well.... oh, dear. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 14:43:08
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Patrakis, PDK, I don't expect this project to be for everyone.
Obviously, while I wish for everyone that loves the Realms to read my stuff and enjoy it (and promise to buy 10 copies each of anything that ever has my name on it), I'm neither ignorant of nor deaf to the complaints of folks that fundamentally disagree with everything 4E in the Realms. I do hope that all of Candlekeep will at least give this column, or series, or project, or whatever I wind up calling it by the end, a chance, and try and understand where I'm coming from with the attempt: love of the Forgotten Realms and a desire to make it more hospitable to everyone involved.
That said, if my Musings wind up not being for you, I'll understand. This is a difficult time for Realms fans, and the last thing I want to do is start driving a wedge between the people who support the current changes and those who adamantly oppose them. The changes have been made, for better or worse, and while there are going to be people that refuse to make the switch, I would like those that do chose to move their games, their reading, and their imaginations into the "future" (post-Spellplague) Realms to feel as at home there as they have for the last 20 years--and for those that have already decided not to move forward with the published material to remember that there are still people willing to work hard to join, rather than separate, the Realms of 3E and 4E.
Enough blathering out of me, though.
BC |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 16:05:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Patrakis, PDK, I don't expect this project to be for everyone.
Obviously, while I wish for everyone that loves the Realms to read my stuff and enjoy it (and promise to buy 10 copies each of anything that ever has my name on it), I'm neither ignorant of nor deaf to the complaints of folks that fundamentally disagree with everything 4E in the Realms. I do hope that all of Candlekeep will at least give this column, or series, or project, or whatever I wind up calling it by the end, a chance, and try and understand where I'm coming from with the attempt: love of the Forgotten Realms and a desire to make it more hospitable to everyone involved.
That said, if my Musings wind up not being for you, I'll understand. This is a difficult time for Realms fans, and the last thing I want to do is start driving a wedge between the people who support the current changes and those who adamantly oppose them. The changes have been made, for better or worse, and while there are going to be people that refuse to make the switch, I would like those that do chose to move their games, their reading, and their imaginations into the "future" (post-Spellplague) Realms to feel as at home there as they have for the last 20 years--and for those that have already decided not to move forward with the published material to remember that there are still people willing to work hard to join, rather than separate, the Realms of 3E and 4E.
Enough blathering out of me, though.
BC
Blather on Brother!!! We want to hear it. I sure your Realmsian musings will be as smooth as a hot cup of tea for a lady in a chilly room!
So, this is your scroll, so as a famous Tolkien fan once sang.. "Ramble On!" |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2008 : 16:27:56
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Blather on Brother!!! We want to hear it. I sure your Realmsian musings will be as smooth as a hot cup of tea for a lady in a chilly room!
So, this is your scroll, so as a famous Tolkien fan once sang.. "Ramble On!"
Oh, don't worry. There will be plenty of blathering in the actual threads. I just don't want to wax philosophical in here. This is meant to be an announcement thread, and a central index for the various topics, not a soapbox.
Heck, I don't even have a soapbox. Most of my soap comes in a bottle. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2008 : 21:46:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Blather on Brother!!! We want to hear it. I sure your Realmsian musings will be as smooth as a hot cup of tea for a lady in a chilly room!
So, this is your scroll, so as a famous Tolkien fan once sang.. "Ramble On!"
Oh, don't worry. There will be plenty of blathering in the actual threads. I just don't want to wax philosophical in here. This is meant to be an announcement thread, and a central index for the various topics, not a soapbox.
Heck, I don't even have a soapbox. Most of my soap comes in a bottle.
Well what do you think they ship the bottles in silly!
And I look forward to your words come Monday. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 00:52:53
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Brian, you probably know how I feel about the current state of things in the Realms by this point in time, and while I've very sadly moved on from the Realms for the first time in 20 years or so of gaming, you are one of the handful of people that would interest me in such a project.
I doubt I'll be coming "home," but I'm certainly interested to see what you come up with. |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 14:14:30
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Brian, you probably know how I feel about the current state of things in the Realms by this point in time, and while I've very sadly moved on from the Realms for the first time in 20 years or so of gaming, you are one of the handful of people that would interest me in such a project.
I doubt I'll be coming "home," but I'm certainly interested to see what you come up with.
What he said  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 03:10:22
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I'm interested. 
While I have already stated my distaste for most of the 4E changes, I have been thinking of alternate ways to pull off a couple of the changes. Seeing someone else's spin on it can only help.
Not only that, but I consider you to be "semi-official". I know that your musings are not official, but you do have a greater authority than many of us, with your connections to the setting. In my opinion, the only thing that your musings (and those of a select few others, like Krash) lack is the WotC stamp of approval.
So by all means, share your ideas! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 03:13:18
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| Oh, and as a further note... I haven't seen anything yet, but I would be really happy if this thread didn't follow the trend of all other 4E threads: sooner or later, they all seem to turn negative. That's grown really tiresome, and I don't want to see it in here. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 17:14:48
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Here is juat a wild idea.
Would it be a good idea to tag our scrolls with a 3.5e or 4e prefix when we write specific articles about a setting? Maybe that way we could diminish the amount of unwarranted participations. As for me, i could just see that a specific thread has material concerning 4E and would even go read the thing.
It's just a thought.
Pat |
Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 17:53:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Not only that, but I consider you to be "semi-official". I know that your musings are not official, but you do have a greater authority than many of us, with your connections to the setting. In my opinion, the only thing that your musings (and those of a select few others, like Krash) lack is the WotC stamp of approval.
I greatly appreciate your sentiment, Wooly.
Personally, I don't find my musing to carry that large a weight--certainly, George's work is better-researched and longer considered than mine. Except for Cormyr (which I regard entirely differently from my knowledge of the rest of the Realms), my word is just one scribe's opinion, a single voice in a large choir. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 19:20:32
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| You have piqued my interest, despite my dislike of the 4e Realms... beyond that, I cannot promise anything. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 19:25:44
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| Just a notice to all that the first piece, Angharradh and the Seldarine, is now live. You can click the title of any of the Musings to head directly to their topic threads, or here if you don't feel like heading back to the first page. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 00:27:32
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It looks like the Mulhorandi Pantheon Musing might need to be put on hold while I work on tweaking another project for tomorrow's deadline. Rest assured, the Musings will still be coming out, and I don't have any plans to stop them any time soon.
If I'm unable to get it out tonight, then it will be there by next Monday. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 04:21:02
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| As many of you know by now, I am firmly in the 3.5E camp along with Patrakis, PDK, and HawkinsDM. That said, Garen Thal put together a very well-thought-out and well-written piece about Angarradh, and I think that even those of us who have no real use for the 4E Realms will find it interesting and thought-provoking. I'm looking forward to seeing Garen's future installments; Garen, if you can make me less vitriolic about what's been done to my favorite place (as you seem to have done), I'm okay with that. I've had my rants and vented elsewhere, and while my position hasn't changed much, my expression of it has certainly found some wiggle room. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 30 Sep 2008 04:22:01 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 05:44:51
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| Turns out I got it done a little faster than I thought. Enjoy this week's Musing on the Mulhorandi Pantheon. |
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Monday Musings: An Introduction
