| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 15 Sep 2008 : 22:00:10
Well met, good gentles!
Now that we’ve had a bit of time with the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, and the Player’s Guide is out on the shelves, folks have had a chance to look over the Realms of 1479 DR and begin to come to terms with the changes therein. Obviously, some people like the new lore more than others (to say that some here on Candlekeep are dissatisfied would be a tremendous understatement), and no one can argue that the face of Toril has changed quite a bit.
That said, I’ve decided to engage in a little project. Taking a view similar to someone who has been “asleep” these last 104 years, I’m going to spend some Mondays (not necessarily every week) examining a specific topic in the Realms of 4E, and trying to build a bridge between what was and what is. Once I’ve finished a topic, I’ll give some time “monitoring” questions and comments on the subject—probably a month or so—and then move on to covering other issues. After that, I’ll visit occasionally, but I can only juggle so many things at once.
Before we begin this experiment, though, I’ve established some ground rules for myself:
Respect what has come before.
This means that I can’t ignore any lore of which I am aware, although I can tweak and twist and massage it to fit my purposes.
The Events of the Spellplague and Those Described in 4E’s FRCG and FRPG Happened
Following my first rule, I will not toss out any changes from the 4E books, whether I like them or not. In fact, I’m not even planning on discussing my opinions of the changes. Rather, I’m going with the same assumption I always have when writing Realmslore: the events as depicted in official products are part of the real history of the Forgotten Realms, for good or ill.
Don’t Pretend That It’s Official
This is both a restricting and a freeing guideline. On the one hand, anything I talk about on this is going to be a “fan creation”—as such, I will not talk about anything I’ve had a hand in creating officially (Cormyr, for example, is entirely out. Sorry.). On the other hand, I can focus on the lore and not worry about the “playability” of my decisions. Win some, lose others.
Don’t Kill the Not-Dead
I can’t kill off anyone that’s not specifically listed as dead—except for deities listed as missing or otherwise inactive in 4E.
Don’t Spoil the Fun
Characters that belong to others are hands off. Similarly, deities that a single author is dealing with via their Chosen (namely Mask/Erevis in the case of Paul Kemp, and Deneir/Cadderly in the case of Bob Salvatore) I will not touch.
With the Rules® laid out, I can talk about the ideas I’d like to cover in my Musings.
The changes in the pantheon are some of the largest upheavals in the new Realms, and involve some of the most complicated examinations, so I’ll be starting there.
First on my list is Angharradh and the Seldarine. Following that, I'll be addressing these issues (in roughly the order listed):
Mulhorandi Pantheon
Orc Pantheon
The Gods of Magic
Halfling Pantheon
Gnome Pantheon
-Dwarven Pantheon
-Drow Pantheon
-Monster Pantheons I: On Dragons and their Ilk
-Monster Pantheons II: The Return of Sseth
-Monster Pantheons III: Goblinoids and Kobolds
-Monster Pantheons IV: Giants, Titans and Primordials
-Monster Pantheons V: Aberrations and Others
-Deity Wrap-up: Undisclosed
As I go along, I'll replace the above-listed topics with hyperlinks to the appropriate threads. Once the deities are done, I'll be moving along to another topic, if I feel that the response is worth the additional effort.
I'm excited, are you excited?
BC |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 16 Nov 2008 : 08:09:35
-Thanks for the hard work, or is it a labor of love? 
BRIMSTONE  |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 10 Nov 2008 : 23:25:10
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Neat. Gnome love. 
I don't know that those are exactly the words I'd use to characterize things, but yeah... |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Nov 2008 : 23:22:06
Neat. Gnome love. |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 10 Nov 2008 : 18:28:24
Two weeks in a row? And on time! Holy crap.
Monday Musing: Gnome Pantheon |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 04 Nov 2008 : 14:18:33
And here, ladies and gentlemen, is Musing #5: Halfling Pantheon. Enjoy! |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 23:03:36
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So what's next?
Depending on how the week goes (I've got some design to do, and am expecting a bit of feedback on a writing proposal) I should have the Halfling piece ready for Monday, and possibly the Gnome one as well. They're a bit more light-hearted and have a more pleasant tone, particularly since I don't have to address the murder of any deities (I think...).
Forget the Halflings. Bring on the love for the Forgotten Folk! |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 18:25:35
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So what's next?
Depending on how the week goes (I've got some design to do, and am expecting a bit of feedback on a writing proposal) I should have the Halfling piece ready for Monday, and possibly the Gnome one as well. They're a bit more light-hearted and have a more pleasant tone, particularly since I don't have to address the murder of any deities (I think...).
Apparently you haven't heard of the serialized murders of the gnome and halfling pantheons by one Garl 'Mad dog' Glittergold.
Ha! |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 17:56:00
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So what's next?
Depending on how the week goes (I've got some design to do, and am expecting a bit of feedback on a writing proposal) I should have the Halfling piece ready for Monday, and possibly the Gnome one as well. They're a bit more light-hearted and have a more pleasant tone, particularly since I don't have to address the murder of any deities (I think...).
Apparently you haven't heard of the serialized murders of the gnome and halfling pantheons by one Garl 'Mad dog' Glittergold. |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 17:49:10
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So what's next?
Depending on how the week goes (I've got some design to do, and am expecting a bit of feedback on a writing proposal) I should have the Halfling piece ready for Monday, and possibly the Gnome one as well. They're a bit more light-hearted and have a more pleasant tone, particularly since I don't have to address the murder of any deities (I think...). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 17:41:11
So what's next? |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 16:54:19
I nearly forgot; the ever-popular Gods of Magic Musing is up. You can check it out here. |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 06 Oct 2008 : 16:48:14
Third installment, The Orc Pantheon is up. Have fun!
Mod Edit: Fixed the link.  |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 18:00:47
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
As many of you know by now, I am firmly in the 3.5E camp along with Patrakis, PDK, and HawkinsDM. That said, Garen Thal put together a very well-thought-out and well-written piece about Angarradh, and I think that even those of us who have no real use for the 4E Realms will find it interesting and thought-provoking. I'm looking forward to seeing Garen's future installments; Garen, if you can make me less vitriolic about what's been done to my favorite place (as you seem to have done), I'm okay with that. I've had my rants and vented elsewhere, and while my position hasn't changed much, my expression of it has certainly found some wiggle room. 
This is one of the grandest compliments I can hope for out of this project: that it has gotten folks with no interest in the 4E Realms to sit up, take notice, and maybe take a breath or two. I'm not looking to convert anyone to anything with the series, but if it mends some feelings over the changes and gets people talking a little more civilly than before, I will be thrilled beyond all belief.
Already plugging away at installment #3, so expect me to be on time for next week. ;)
'Til Next,
BC |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 05:44:51
Turns out I got it done a little faster than I thought. Enjoy this week's Musing on the Mulhorandi Pantheon. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 04:21:02
As many of you know by now, I am firmly in the 3.5E camp along with Patrakis, PDK, and HawkinsDM. That said, Garen Thal put together a very well-thought-out and well-written piece about Angarradh, and I think that even those of us who have no real use for the 4E Realms will find it interesting and thought-provoking. I'm looking forward to seeing Garen's future installments; Garen, if you can make me less vitriolic about what's been done to my favorite place (as you seem to have done), I'm okay with that. I've had my rants and vented elsewhere, and while my position hasn't changed much, my expression of it has certainly found some wiggle room. |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 00:27:32
It looks like the Mulhorandi Pantheon Musing might need to be put on hold while I work on tweaking another project for tomorrow's deadline. Rest assured, the Musings will still be coming out, and I don't have any plans to stop them any time soon.
If I'm unable to get it out tonight, then it will be there by next Monday. |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 19:25:44
Just a notice to all that the first piece, Angharradh and the Seldarine, is now live. You can click the title of any of the Musings to head directly to their topic threads, or here if you don't feel like heading back to the first page. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 19:20:32
You have piqued my interest, despite my dislike of the 4e Realms... beyond that, I cannot promise anything. |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 17:53:45
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Not only that, but I consider you to be "semi-official". I know that your musings are not official, but you do have a greater authority than many of us, with your connections to the setting. In my opinion, the only thing that your musings (and those of a select few others, like Krash) lack is the WotC stamp of approval.
I greatly appreciate your sentiment, Wooly.
Personally, I don't find my musing to carry that large a weight--certainly, George's work is better-researched and longer considered than mine. Except for Cormyr (which I regard entirely differently from my knowledge of the rest of the Realms), my word is just one scribe's opinion, a single voice in a large choir. |
| Patrakis |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 17:14:48
Here is juat a wild idea.
Would it be a good idea to tag our scrolls with a 3.5e or 4e prefix when we write specific articles about a setting? Maybe that way we could diminish the amount of unwarranted participations. As for me, i could just see that a specific thread has material concerning 4E and would even go read the thing.
It's just a thought.
Pat |
| The Sage |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 03:17:33
Well, I'm already set to post some firm guidelines on scribe participation in these discussions once Garen posts his first article here. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 03:13:18
Oh, and as a further note... I haven't seen anything yet, but I would be really happy if this thread didn't follow the trend of all other 4E threads: sooner or later, they all seem to turn negative. That's grown really tiresome, and I don't want to see it in here. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 03:10:22
I'm interested.
While I have already stated my distaste for most of the 4E changes, I have been thinking of alternate ways to pull off a couple of the changes. Seeing someone else's spin on it can only help.
Not only that, but I consider you to be "semi-official". I know that your musings are not official, but you do have a greater authority than many of us, with your connections to the setting. In my opinion, the only thing that your musings (and those of a select few others, like Krash) lack is the WotC stamp of approval.
So by all means, share your ideas!  |
| arry |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 14:14:30
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Brian, you probably know how I feel about the current state of things in the Realms by this point in time, and while I've very sadly moved on from the Realms for the first time in 20 years or so of gaming, you are one of the handful of people that would interest me in such a project.
I doubt I'll be coming "home," but I'm certainly interested to see what you come up with.
What he said |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 00:52:53
Brian, you probably know how I feel about the current state of things in the Realms by this point in time, and while I've very sadly moved on from the Realms for the first time in 20 years or so of gaming, you are one of the handful of people that would interest me in such a project.
I doubt I'll be coming "home," but I'm certainly interested to see what you come up with. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 20 Sep 2008 : 21:46:30
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Blather on Brother!!! We want to hear it. I sure your Realmsian musings will be as smooth as a hot cup of tea for a lady in a chilly room!
So, this is your scroll, so as a famous Tolkien fan once sang.. "Ramble On!"
Oh, don't worry. There will be plenty of blathering in the actual threads. I just don't want to wax philosophical in here. This is meant to be an announcement thread, and a central index for the various topics, not a soapbox.
Heck, I don't even have a soapbox. Most of my soap comes in a bottle.
Well what do you think they ship the bottles in silly!
And I look forward to your words come Monday. |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 20 Sep 2008 : 16:27:56
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Blather on Brother!!! We want to hear it. I sure your Realmsian musings will be as smooth as a hot cup of tea for a lady in a chilly room!
So, this is your scroll, so as a famous Tolkien fan once sang.. "Ramble On!"
Oh, don't worry. There will be plenty of blathering in the actual threads. I just don't want to wax philosophical in here. This is meant to be an announcement thread, and a central index for the various topics, not a soapbox.
Heck, I don't even have a soapbox. Most of my soap comes in a bottle. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 16:05:56
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Patrakis, PDK, I don't expect this project to be for everyone.
Obviously, while I wish for everyone that loves the Realms to read my stuff and enjoy it (and promise to buy 10 copies each of anything that ever has my name on it), I'm neither ignorant of nor deaf to the complaints of folks that fundamentally disagree with everything 4E in the Realms. I do hope that all of Candlekeep will at least give this column, or series, or project, or whatever I wind up calling it by the end, a chance, and try and understand where I'm coming from with the attempt: love of the Forgotten Realms and a desire to make it more hospitable to everyone involved.
That said, if my Musings wind up not being for you, I'll understand. This is a difficult time for Realms fans, and the last thing I want to do is start driving a wedge between the people who support the current changes and those who adamantly oppose them. The changes have been made, for better or worse, and while there are going to be people that refuse to make the switch, I would like those that do chose to move their games, their reading, and their imaginations into the "future" (post-Spellplague) Realms to feel as at home there as they have for the last 20 years--and for those that have already decided not to move forward with the published material to remember that there are still people willing to work hard to join, rather than separate, the Realms of 3E and 4E.
Enough blathering out of me, though.
BC
Blather on Brother!!! We want to hear it. I sure your Realmsian musings will be as smooth as a hot cup of tea for a lady in a chilly room!
So, this is your scroll, so as a famous Tolkien fan once sang.. "Ramble On!" |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 14:43:08
Patrakis, PDK, I don't expect this project to be for everyone.
Obviously, while I wish for everyone that loves the Realms to read my stuff and enjoy it (and promise to buy 10 copies each of anything that ever has my name on it), I'm neither ignorant of nor deaf to the complaints of folks that fundamentally disagree with everything 4E in the Realms. I do hope that all of Candlekeep will at least give this column, or series, or project, or whatever I wind up calling it by the end, a chance, and try and understand where I'm coming from with the attempt: love of the Forgotten Realms and a desire to make it more hospitable to everyone involved.
That said, if my Musings wind up not being for you, I'll understand. This is a difficult time for Realms fans, and the last thing I want to do is start driving a wedge between the people who support the current changes and those who adamantly oppose them. The changes have been made, for better or worse, and while there are going to be people that refuse to make the switch, I would like those that do chose to move their games, their reading, and their imaginations into the "future" (post-Spellplague) Realms to feel as at home there as they have for the last 20 years--and for those that have already decided not to move forward with the published material to remember that there are still people willing to work hard to join, rather than separate, the Realms of 3E and 4E.
Enough blathering out of me, though.
BC |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 14:33:23
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
I'm excited, are you excited?
BC
Thoughts of you always excite me, Brian.
-- George Krashos
I, um, well.... oh, dear. |
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