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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Aug 2008 : 04:47:27
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In another assine, has nothing to do with previous lore decision, we now know Sehanine was an aspect of Selune and in 4E, she's gone.
"In the tumult of the Plague Years, Selune finds that she has to concentrate her power to preserve the Gates of the Moon, revealing that Sehanine Moonbow was one of her manifestations. As part of reabsorbing some of the power that she once used to create Mystra, and withdrawing from manifestations such as Sehanine, Selune assumes the strength of a greater god. Several other gods with similar "multiple manifestations" had to do the same: Chauntea and Yondalla, Talos and Gruumsh, a couple of others.
OK, now on to table-talk: Why does Sehanine survive in the core pantheon, but not the FR pantheon? The answer is simple: the core pantheon doesn't have Selune. Basically, we weren't going to keep two chaotic good moon goddesses around, so who was manifesting who? Selune is a more central and important figure in the Realms than Sehanine. The FR design team wanted Selune, not Sehanine. On the other hand, Gruumsh and Talos are both one-eyed, chaotic evil gods of destruction. But Gruumsh has a heavier "investment," even in the context of FR, so he stays Gruumsh and reabsorbs Talos."
What silliness. I guess we are all just too stupid to handle 2 moon goddesses and 2 one-eyed gods
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When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2008 : 05:25:52
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you know, i once said something to myself about wotc.
it was, I wish they wouldnt think of us as down syndromed people, because to me, thats what they are doing.
after blackstaff tower, BLACKLISTED |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2008 : 07:29:57
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Blasphemy!!!!
Why should different cultures have the same gods, anyway? I mean, really, Thor (Norse storm god) is not the same as the Thunderbird (also a storm deity) from Native American myths and legends. I would also have a very hard time believing that the two were aspects of the same being because the cultural outlooks are totally different.
Merged gods, monolithic evil... I am most displeased with the homogenization that seems to be taking place in the Realms.
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2008 : 10:35:26
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Labelas is also one-eyed, wonder how they killed him
I don't often play religious characters, but Sehanine was my fave |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2008 : 11:58:22
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| Oh COME ON! This is....this is....the only words I know to describe how I feel about this are forbidden on this website. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2008 : 14:17:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Labelas is also one-eyed, wonder how they killed him
Since he's also one-eyed, they'll make him an aspect of Gruumsh.   |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Aug 2008 14:17:52 |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2008 : 17:37:22
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| Let's just cut out all the redundancy, why don't we? On this big island there's four races. Elves live on the North side, Humans on the South, Dwarves on the West and Halflings on the East. In the middle there's this big dungeon full of mean, nasty monsters. Isn't that just a brilliant design? Should I submit my resume to Wizards? Will I be writing the next New York Times bestseller by this date next year? |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2008 : 18:54:14
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Let's add some detail: in the middle is not only a dungeon, but a huge mountain range full of orcs, goblins, ogres, kobolds, gnomes, dragons and deep, deep, dungeons with even nastier monsters. All these critters regularly raid the four sides of the isle which inhabitants crouch in a few scattered cities surrounded by untamed wilderness (full of monsters, of course). But there is hope: if a fearless hero travels into the mountains and enters the right dungeon and descends deep enough, he will find the amulett of Yendor which will redeem the monster beset people of the isle.
I want 40% of all profits RodOdom gains from his resume. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 09 Aug 2008 18:54:54 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2008 : 21:29:45
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These changes are ridiculous.
And I think Gruumsh is stupid.
Whoever made that choice is a orc loving, goblin kissing, kobold breeding dunderhead [indignation]
What I mean is how great!!! This will bring in new gamers by the ones!!!
Wot$ is making all the right moves, I only wish they would speed them up, as it seems they are taking such a slow deliberate and well thought out approach!!! [/sarcasm]
Hmm, without my indignation and sarcastic takes on how 4$ is being handled I am left feeling empty, without a place to go.
Thank Mystra and Helm that I have over 30 novels left to read that happened Pre sellplague (Which I belive is a registered trademark of the Wooly one!)and the 30 some years of love Ed put in before as well.
By the time I read all of those novels and all of Ed's old scrolls here...who knows what the state of the Realms will be? Maybe I will grow out of them(doubtful) or 5E may fix it all or I can just start with Darkwalker on Moonshae and start over!
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2008 : 23:10:13
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thank you and good night.
so lets go to pathfinder and trued20 and show wotc what we think of them.
activates cole protocol section 2: abandon ship |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 00:46:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Fellshot
I am most displeased with the homogenization that seems to be taking place in the Realms.
Same here. Don't know what else to say, really, except that this isn't the Realms I've come to know.
I never thought that Gruumsh was more important than Talos, by the way, or even that the two deities were extremely similar. WotC had plenty of chances to use Talos, they just chose to constantly focus on Shar. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 11 Aug 2008 00:48:15 |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 03:13:58
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| I have yet to read anything redeeming within the Shattered Realms. |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 06:42:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
I have yet to read anything redeeming within the Shattered Realms.
Sadly, neither have I...and the "revealing" of racial deities as aspects of human deities is one that I have railed against since before the new year. This truly is the last straw that I hoped I would never see in the 4e Realms (but dreaded as a certainty. For me, the racial diversity of the Realms (amongst deities as well as mortals) was one of the most "real" aspects of it, and now it is moot. Despair and nausea batter me. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 09:37:35
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| the sad thing is, that when they say make it your own world, when and if 4fr makes pc game it will be with the official lore and not home grown. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11712 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 21:03:01
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
" Chauntea and Yondalla, Talos and Gruumsh, a couple of others.
Just wondering, what article was the source of this? I agree, Talos and Gruumsh were not the same. I was also wondering what was going to happen to Yondalla, guess I now know. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 21:18:01
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
" Chauntea and Yondalla, Talos and Gruumsh, a couple of others.
Just wondering, what article was the source of this? I agree, Talos and Gruumsh were not the same. I was also wondering what was going to happen to Yondalla, guess I now know.
Its a quote from Rich Baker on the WoTC Boards |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 19:43:42
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
What silliness. I guess we are all just too stupid to handle 2 moon goddesses and 2 one-eyed gods
If they merge two one-eyed gods does that mean the new deity keeps both eyes? If I was a one-eyed deity sitting in Ao's waiting room...
...
Ao's secretary, better known as Oghma (for it is he): Mr Ao will see you now.
Gruumsh *sets down cup of Elf blood, brushes down animal skins, polishes spearhead a little*
Oghma: You can leave your spear in the umbrella stand.
Gruumsh: Me leave Bloodspear? Never! Gruumsh mad!
Oghma: There's no need to speak in character here, I've seen your stats and Mr Ao is waiting.
Gruumsh *pats Bloodspear fondly* *opens door to Ao's office*
Ao (for it is he) *looks up from his desk where he is perusing Gruumsh's records*
Ao: Ah, yes. Gruumsh, isn't it? For some reason your name always reminds me of someone who eats noisily, rather appropriate given your department. Anyway, please sit down. I would offer you something to drink but you'll not be staying long.
Gruumsh *Sits down, furrows eyebrow*
Ao: I've called you here today to discuss your performance. Frankly, it's rather disappointing. I appreciate that conditions in the field are tough but when I look at Correllon's performance and compare it to yours...well.
Gruumsh: Corellon has more staff.
Ao: 'Had' is more appropriate. Well I'm afraid to say that I've taken the decision to merge your portfolio with Talos.
Gruumsh: WHAT THE FU...
Ao: Hear me out. You're both playing in the same market, namely evil overlord and, although I hate to say it, you're not sexy enough. Bane has it. Cyric has it, in a crazy ex' why did I ever date him sort of way but you just don't have their appeal.
Gruumsh: But what about my people, my worshippers?
Ao: They probably won't notice and in time may even like the merger.
Gruumsh: So I kill Talos, take his worshippers and get my eye back from Corellon.
Ao: Not exactly. We've rebranded and have envisaged a new deity who emphasises the power of a thunderstorm while engendering an appeal that leverages and excites a greater market segment
Gruumsh: In English?
Ao *hands Gruumsh a Pikachu outfit* |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 20:10:30
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I dearly hope we will get more sequels of theses "Tales of a design process" by this talented author. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 01:27:30
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*attempts to regain normal breathing again*
That was great satire. Methinks that it sums up the 4e marketing target audience too |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 13:38:58
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| That was well written Kia! hahahahaha |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 17:18:02
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| OMGruumsh!! That's hilarious! It makes me want to put out my other eye! |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 17:47:17
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Good stuff.
I did something similar in Steven Schend's thread, imagining the conversation between Khelben and Kelemvor when Khelben dies and finds out their are no Seldarine. 
As for on-topic; I don't understand why people can't just ignore the whole Sehanine/Selune debacle - it has absolutely NO effect IG. In fact, it was done with no logical reasoning behind it, since it didn't chane a thing.
A lot of the changes are like that (like Eladrin) - you can just ignore it because it is pointless.
I think the designers thought re-naming stuff was the same as being 'creative'.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Aug 2008 17:48:41 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 19:06:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think the designers thought re-naming stuff was the same as being 'creative'.
Just like recycling names like "dragonborn" was creative? |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 19:47:37
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Kia: Pure brilliance. Perhaps this scenario explains Ling-Ling from Drawn Together?
If I'm going to swallow the argument that Selune and Sehanine were always one, I don't understand why Llolth is not Shar. That would be MUCH more interesting to contemplate!  |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 20:16:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
I dearly hope we will get more sequels of theses "Tales of a design process" by this talented author.
I look forward to Ao's meeting with Eldath myself |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 20:18:05
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I never cared for all the "elven are so cool with their complex history/pantheon/whatever" so I have no problem with these changes. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 21:04:44
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
I look forward to Ao's meeting with Eldath myself
Well it is rather off-topic but just this once...
Ao (for it is he) *looking at some papers on his desk* *muttering to self*
Ao: I really must do something about all these miniatures.
Ao *ignores polite cough*
Several minutes elapse, during which a polite cough is heard every second minute or so.
Ao: I could swear one of these miniatures has a cough. I really must cut back on all the hours I'm working. I should get a cleaner as well but the last time I had a cleaner the Tablets of Fate went missing.
Ao *looks up*
Ao: Who in the name of the Luminous Being are you?
Eldath: Eldath, you asked to see me sir.
Ao: Speak up!
Eldath: Eldath, you asked to see me sir.
Ao: Did I?
Ao *scratches head* *frowns at the Kiaransalee miniature that appears to have found its way to the top of his waste paper basket*
Ao: Eldath, Eldath. Hmm, ah yes.
Ao *finds a piece of paper that is mostly blank except for a few lines at the top*
Ao: You've been a bit quiet haven't you?
Eldath: That is partly what I'm supposed to do sir.
Ao: Hmm, and what's all this with springs and rivers.
Eldath: The people of Faerun need and revere fresh flowing water. It's essential to life.
Ao: I hear what you're saying but it's not exactly in the foreground is it?
Eldath: What exactly do you mean?
Ao: I mean I'd like you to catch the imagination of marketplace. There are many worshippers out there and I think we need to give your image a slight tweak.
Eldath: I would rather prefer it if I remained untweaked, sir.
Ao *stands up, walks around, gesticulates in a frantic, fly-swotting manner*
Ao: You need to see the big picture. My boss is riding my case hard about this. He wants to make cut-backs, we need to rebrand, we need to resynergise.
Eldath: Resynergise?
Ao: Now you're talking my language. We've got to see the big picture.
Eldath: If I may say so, sir, I offer depth and meaning to Faerun. I offer places of quiet contemplation. I offer an alternative to the usual violent approach many feel obliged to take.
Ao: I hear you. Trust me, I really do. 'Peace sells' you say, 'but who's buying' is my question.
Eldath: Peace isn't a commodity to be sold, if I might respectfully draw your attention to that.
Ao: I respect what you're saying. Really I do and I've given your case a lot of thought. I think we need to rebrand your product, we need to put pizazz into your portfolio. I want people to notice you. So here's my offer, cards on the table so to speak. I would like you to give serious consideration to becoming a member of Team Rocket. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 22:24:35
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Team Rockets rockin yer in trouble make it double.......
hahahahaha |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 23:12:24
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Wow, Kiaransalyn! I'm impressed with the portrayal of The Quiet One! Well-done!  |
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phal
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 14:30:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Gruumsh: WHAT THE FU...
Now THERE'S the Gruumsh we all know and love!!!
I still have tears on my cheeks from laughing so hard while reading those excepts by the way. Thank you very much for writing them. |
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Goodbye Sehanine. We hardly knew Ya
