| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 10:20:10
|
| Fantastic info! That is some hard work right there. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
 |
|
|
Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 14:03:02
|
dope thread
we created something similar, uniting both cosmologies and adding some new layers and planes, merging some, so I didn't stay this close to canon, cause there are certain parts of Great Wheel and the Tree that I don't like
I started writing about it here http://www.forgottenrealmsvault.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=26 and will continue, the next is Gates of the Moon |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 14:49:23
|
| I always figured you could blend the Wheel and the Tree by leaving the Tree mostly as is, and saying that the planes it reaches are just domains on or sub-planes of the planes on the Wheel. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 16:38:55
|
| Wow, that is amazing work Darkmeer! Well done indeed. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
|
|
|
|
Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 21:04:55
|
| Maybe you should mention that the Celestial Stairway connects to the Gates of the Moon (or did you do this by mentioning the "great number of paths"?). |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 30 Jul 2008 21:08:14 |
|
|
|
Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 22:48:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I always figured you could blend the Wheel and the Tree by leaving the Tree mostly as is, and saying that the planes it reaches are just domains on or sub-planes of the planes on the Wheel.
I've always said that as well! (my theory is that Ao himself is the "tree", an incorporeal "shape" that is juxtaposed and coterminous to the Great Wheel, so yes, in my Realms, the Gates of the Moon, say, can span Elysium and Arborea) |
|
|
|
Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 23:59:20
|
Ao is one bit of the established lore that I actually ignore. I see it as them (TSR and WotC) trying to impose a Judeo-Christian over-deity in a world where one does not belong (and I am a Christian  ). I actually told Rich that only the death of Ao (not Mystra) would have logically caused all of the chaos and aftermath of the Spellplague. He said that it would, but that they would not have been able to get that past the fans (who would ask questions like: "can Ao even be killed?"). Once again, sub-par logic applied to the 4e Realms. That is what galls me most of all, I think (I know, this seems to contradict what I have previously said I dislike the most; but all the things that I have previously said I dislike the most actually fall under "gross mis-use of logic" if you think about it).
Apology for thread-jacking... |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
|
|
|
|
Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 01:03:06
|
I've never used Ao in my games. He's just the uncaring glue that holds the cosmos together. Gods are ants to him, and mortals are microbes at best.
I actually don't mind that there's an overgod there (i.e. he's preventing gods from other worlds to intrude in the Realms, like the Lady of Pain does for Sigil). The only difference is that the Lady of Pain does not allow ANY god at all in her domain... |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 01:03:51
|
When it comes to the subject of utilising material for both the Great Wheel and the Tree in the same campaign, I prefer to interprete both 'cosmologies' as fallible mortal maps of the same 'place' -- often relying heavily on the words of Ed for inspiration:-
"The Great Wheel or any other cosmology doesn’t bother me, just as avatar stats and the endless “but this god came first, or can beat that god” arguments don’t: mortal PCs can’t know the truth about the gods anyway, because every in-game source (supreme priests, avatars of the gods themselves, holy writings) they could possibly learn all this stuff from is biased. Everything. So it really is all up to the DM."
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 01:08:53
|
What a coincidence, me too!
Also remember that Realms sources generally talk about the Outer Planes, not the Planescape neologism 'Great Wheel'. The term 'Great Tree' doesn't figure in the FRCS either, for that matter. Both of these reinforce the fact that Realms folk don't especially see the planes as these round or square or treelike maps, much as the shape of Faerûn drawn by cartographers isn't how most imagine the land. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 01:50:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
I actually told Rich that only the death of Ao (not Mystra) would have logically caused all of the chaos and aftermath of the Spellplague. He said that it would, but that they would not have been able to get that past the fans (who would ask questions like: "can Ao even be killed?").
Ao's death would have explained things better... And considering the fan reaction to everything else, maybe they should have gone that route!
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 07:49:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Maybe you should mention that the Celestial Stairway connects to the Gates of the Moon (or did you do this by mentioning the "great number of paths"?).
Actually, I recalled bits and pieces of that lore, but I wasn't completely sure, so the "great number of paths" was my way of avoiding that topic entirely
I'd really like to do all of the paths between, but I am doing a broad overview for now, and I'll get to doing a proper writeup of each "branch" or "root" after I finish the broad overviews (at least from the Faerunian Prime perspective). I really enjoy the tiny bit of planar lore that really wasn't explored in 3.5, and I'm going to finish this lore off myself as I'm sticking to 3.5 (and/or Spycraft/Pathfinder too). We'll see how far I get once I finish Giants & "Monster" deities. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
|
|
|
Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 07:50:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
I actually told Rich that only the death of Ao (not Mystra) would have logically caused all of the chaos and aftermath of the Spellplague. He said that it would, but that they would not have been able to get that past the fans (who would ask questions like: "can Ao even be killed?").
Ao's death would have explained things better... And considering the fan reaction to everything else, maybe they should have gone that route!
Agreed on both accounts there. I could get into that at a later time (and most likely will).
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
|
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 10:10:08
|
very well done and read.
|
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2008 : 06:38:09
|
Thanks all for the kind words, I'll be working on the Giants & non-humanoids as I said. I'll have more once I'm done reading the books, as I like to be fairly thorough in what I write.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
|
|
|
Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2009 : 14:53:16
|
Just an update on my progress: I'm through most of Monster Mythology and I'll be posting the results within the month, as well as Giantcraft's results. There is a lot to reconcile, and I'd like an opinion on Orcs since I'm having the most difficulty with them.
They will be on Acheron, and I personally think that Gruumsh should have retained his LE disposition. However, this doesn't extend to the rest of the pantheon, primarily because all 3 evil alignments show themselves quite nicely. So what I'm thinking here is that Gruumsh, seeing the chaotic nature of his people, is allowing access to a domain that would normally be off limits (chaos), but sacrifices Law due to the problem of chaotic priests. This makes the alignments for Gruumsh's clergy change a bit, but otherwise keeps it very interesting. (I actually see LE, CE, NE, LN, and CN priests depending on dogma).
Anyhoo, the orc pantheon's reconciling is the most difficult, and I just want opinions on alignments (other than Gruumsh's), please.
Thanks for watching this space.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
|
|
|
Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2009 : 17:27:09
|
Some edits from prior posts:
The Root of Despair, to the Barrens of Doom & Despair:
The deities of despair, following this root, travels along the lower planes of Acheron, Gehenna, Carceri, and into the Abyss's 13th layer. The root breaks it's surface on a great cog in mechanus which leads to the Doomcourt of Hoar. The wide variety of opponents, and the fact that one may meet travelers and refugees from the Blood War, as well as armed contingents, makes travel on this root particularly dangerous.
Nishrek is an odd root. It leads Acheron, a primarily “lawful” plane that contains some of the most chaotic beings in existance, the Orc Pantheon and Goblin Pantheons (which are oddly chaotic for a "lawful" pantheon). Their combined ideas and destructive nature are played out quite well on the metallic surface of the great cubes. This root carries through Gehenna, Pandemonium, the Grey Waste, and into an eternally dark layer of the abyss.
within.
Addition to the original: These roots have many inhabitants other than the human pantheon's members. The goblinoid pantheon, the Orc Pantheon, and others also reside here. They have found their way throughout the lower planes, and are primarily found in the eternal battlefield of Acheron, but other locales, such as Gehenna comprise their membership was well. To this end, Nishrek may be the same root, or it may be a completely new root
This includes the following additional deities
The Orc Pantheon: Gruumsh, Bahgtru, Ilneval, Luthic, Shargaas
The Goblin Pantheon: Magubleyet, Khugorbaeyag, Nomog-Geaya, Bargrivyek
Bugbear Pantheon: Hruggek, Grankhul, Skiggaret
Kobold Pantheon: Kurtulmak, Gaknulak, and Kuraulyek
An additional member of the House of Nature's branch is a member of the Goblin Pantheon, Meriadar, who promotes peace and harmony. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
|
|
|
Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2009 : 17:39:18
|
The base of the Great Tree holds great grounds all around, and on and under these grounds lie dangerous things, just waiting to be let out. The deities of the Illithids, Ilsensine and Maanzecorian (M is currently dead, correct?), hold court in a winding maze of tunnels, and it is rumored that if one travels the tunnels for too long, they will go completely insane. Further in the tunnels and root system, tunneling towards the abyss itself is the Beholder Pantheon (Great Mother and Gzemnid).
Wthin the House of Nature, an extension into the Clockwork Plane of Mechanus leads to the Myconid pantheon's deity, Psilofyr.
The Giant pantheon's branch, that of the Crystaline Branch leads all over the planes. The Crystal Palace of Annam is the central hub for the branch, which leads to the nine hells, carceri, the Abyss, the Beastlands, Elysium, Hades (Tarterus), Arcadia, Pandemonium, Mechanus, the Outlands, |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
3.5 - Managing the tree and the 
