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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 03:31:48
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Greetings fellow Scribes,
It has been a pleasure doing much research, and I believe that I have found a way to completely reconcile the old Great Wheel with that which has happened. Part of this came pre-Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, the other part came after (the bulk of the writing). what I did, in short, was determine the old (2e) locations of the deities, and then placed them along "branches" and "roots" on the Great Tree. Yggdrasil, according to 2e, did branch into EVERY plane, but it did not move the same way that the other paths around the planes did. So, given that information, I did a "popcorn garland" sort of branches. This allowed planes that are not "coterminous" according to the Wheel to actually sit alongside one another due to the planar connection given by the Great Tree.
Anyhoo, each section does need some work, and I'd love extra input. I do have to say a huge thank you to KnightErrantJR, as he allowed me to borrow his copies of Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, as well as Demihuman Deities. These were exceedingly good references, and I appreciate it greatly.
As to the "other" deities of the realms not yet covered, I plan on getting the book of Realms' Giants' mythology (Giantcraft, correct?), as well as the Monstrous deities of the Realms (source, please, even if it's not "core Realms" of 2e). I am placing this along the great tree, and there are more branches that haven't been listed.
One other thing, before I get truly started with all of this: Ed has stated that Limbo is still very much connected to the Realms. This whole idea is what prompted my reconciliation. As always, this is NOT canon, nor do I expect everyone (and their mother) to use this material over the actual canon. This was done because in addition to the Realms, my first love of D&D is Planescape, and I love the crossover novels, such as Tymora's Luck (and there are references to that material that I'll get into in later edits). The information presented here is in 1373-74 DR, as I don't like the end of the GHotR, and I have kept all of the deities alive and well within their own realms. I would like a critique, or any other thoughts on the use of these crazy ideas, please.
Darkmeer the Dark, scribe of things beyond.
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"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
Edited by - Darkmeer on 30 Jul 2008 03:40:05
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 03:36:32
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| Utilizing the Great Tree, Yggdrasil, the Abeir-Toril is connected into the standard Great Wheel, but without using the standard spokes. One may be traveling on the wheel, walk directly through a “branch” or “root” without even seeing or realizing that someone else was traveling on it due to an unknown veil that I presume was created by Ao. The same can be said for those traveling on the branches, as they merely see a fine white mist surrounding the branches as they travel between planar sites. Not to be confused with the mist of the Demiplane of Dread, this mist merely masks what is around to allow direct travel while somewhat protecting the primes from Toril from some of the planar perils (although not as many as they'd like). This happens all the time, as most primes aren't perceptive enough to see all that is there to see. Or, more likely, the prime's belief in their deity masks the view of all the planes. So, each branch of the Great Tree that the primes of Abeir-Toril see Follow the following paths. The best way to "break" the veil is to travel to the City of Doors, but that is another subject entirely, and is beyond the scope of this scroll. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 03:38:45
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The Abyssal Root (Some Spoilers, not sure as I've not read the WotSQ).
This particular root goes directly from the base of the world tree to the Abyss. This is the same abyss that is known on other primes, and it is not unlikely that the first planewalkers from Abeir-Toril, attempting to remove demonic influences, met with travelers from
other worlds. Now, as has been shown with the roll of years, many Demon Lords and even some deities make their homes within the Abyss. This is not the only root that leads into the Abyss, but it is the only one that goes there directly. The only special note is that Lolth and several other deities (prior to the War of the Spider
Queen) live within the Demonweb Pits. The Demonweb Pits were “removed” after the WotSQ by Lolth herself, consolidating her power and removing herself from Abyssal politics. This power vacuum was filled by a new Demoness of Spiders, rumored to be a former Yolchol servant of Lolth, but this is an unconfirmed rumor, especially since Kiransalee has a stake in that plane as well (having been evicted from Thanatos by Orcus in 1368). More information on this as the roll of years goes on. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 03:43:04
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The Branch to Arvandor.
If one travels the Branches of Arvandor, one may be surprised to find it's realm spans several great wheel planes. The Arvandoran Branch crosses into Arborea, Ysgard, Limbo, and even has great leaves that allow travelers to cross into the Outlands to visit
the House of Nature or Dragon Eyrie, or other sections of Arvandor. This Branch, in general, is very pleasant and full of bright celestial beings.
::Author's Note::
The beings within each branch would be the same as in each plane "smashed" together. So, in theory, you could have a Slaadi in Arborea, or (more likely) Ysgard. This helps to reconcile Slaadi in the Realms, and there are other branches and roots with access to Limbo, for the less... pleasantly aligned slaadi. ::end note:: |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 03:47:11
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The Root of Despair, to the Barrens of Doom & Despair:
The deities of despair, following this root, travels along the lower planes of Acheron, Gehenna, Carceri, and into the Abyss's 13th layer. The root breaks it's surface on a great cog in mechanus which leads to the Doomcourt of Hoar. The wide variety of opponents, and the fact that one may meet travelers and refugees from the Blood War, as well as armed contingents, makes travel on this root particularly dangerous.
::Author's Note:: (spoiler) In Tymora's luck, Xvim (at the time) lived in Gehenna. Since Bane never retook the Supreme throne, there is no reason to remove Bane from Gehenna. It even fits his "new" image. I also agree with KEJR that Bane never actually returned to Toril, so keeping Xvim-Bane in Gehenna seems perfect. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 03:50:47
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The Branches of the Bright Waters, a.k.a. Brightwater:
Brightwater is a beautiful realm, which like many of the deities here, makes their petitioners and faithful feel empowered by such beauty. While the deities here concern themselves primarily with their petitioners and pious, they are aware that their realms are
not invincible. The "branches" connect and interweave through Olympus and the Outlands, with a few leaves that connect Heliopolis and the Green Fields. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 03:52:35
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The heart of the World Tree: Cynosure
Noted as neutral ground by all deities, the most likely location for this is at the base of the Spire in the Outlands. Oddly, there has been magical research done on this location, and there is supposedly a deep groove deep under the spire, but no mortal creature has ever
been able to reach this area. This remains unproven, as I am not at all a skilled enough practitioner of the Art nor am I insane enough to even begin to attempt interloping on our powers' private sanctum. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 03:55:07
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The Roots of Spiders: the Demonweb Pits (spoilers)
This root, once part of the Abyssal root, split away when Lolth herself ended what is known as the War of the Spider Queen. Primarily concerned with Drow Deities, this realms is a haven for demons who are unwelcome in the abyss, and a growing ground for
Lolth's reawakening. It still leads through Carceri, specifically Vhaerun's realm. As to Kiransalee, there is much debate over where the root actually leads with the reawakening of Orcus, but many speculate that Kiransalee has filled the void in the 66th layer of the abyss, instead of being the Demonweb Pits, it is now “New Threnody.”
::Author's Note:: Again, conflicting evidence on the fate of the former Demonweb Pits in the Abyss, I'm okay with that conflicting evidence, especially in light of some of the big shake-ups happening around this root. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 03:56:40
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The border root, a.k.a. Dragon Eyrie.
This root, or branch, perhaps, the planes are quite fickle, you know, leads to many planes. Although the Draconic pantheon resides here, the root/branch winds around many planes, almost meanders through so many that it is difficult to tell where you will end up
on this root. It has been verified, however, that it does lead through Arvandor, the Nine Hells, and the Outlands, as well as Mt. Celestia. Perhaps, just perhaps, that is why travel on this root is so dangerous. There are draconic deities, followers, and defenders of each deital realm all over, and not all are friendly towards non-dragons. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 03:57:56
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| The stout root, a.k.a. Dwarfhome. The dwarven pantheon's root, as it is most certainly not a branch, leads through the depths of many planes. It leads through The Gray Waste, Mount Celestia, Arcadia, the Outlands (Dwarven Mountain), Bytopia, the Beastlands, Ysgard, and even Gehenna. The dwarves live and wind within the great tunnels of this root, and most never see the light of day, unless there is an opening on the plane they are currently in to see daylight, which, most likely, would mean that they are in the Outlands, Mt. Celestia, or the Beastlands. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 03:59:37
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| The Branch of Dweomerheart has changed much over the years. It reaches out and touches Arcadia, Elysium, and Gehenna currently. Although, before Mystra was reborn after the Time of Troubles, the Dewomerheart branch only led to Arcadia and Mechanus. Something changed when the new Mystra ascended, but that is something for another time. Note that this plane has many perils and safe places, and it is very difficult to decide which is which. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:01:37
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The elemental planes stand alone from the Great Tree, only accessable from the Ethereal plane, What makes them unique is that they are separate from the Great Tree but the Great Tree thrives on everything that they are and contains them all.
Standing aside from the Great Tree is the place of the dead. Rumors abound of it's true location, but most scholars agree that it is the Grey Waste, but no one has been able to find a consistent portal or root leading directly to the Fugue Plane. Perhaps speaking with a priest of Jergal or Kelemvor would lead more answers. I shall endeavor to find one willing to speak on such matters. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:02:43
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| The root that is Fury's Heart leads through a horridly frozen section Pandemonium, through steamy jungles and ruins in Carceri, as well as through the 13th layer of the Abyss. Sweltering heat, horrid acidic storms, and fiendish insects the size of horses abound in this horrid, horrid realm. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:04:01
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The Branch of Moonbeans, or Gates of the Moon, depending on the scholar you ask, leads through Arborea and Ysgard. There is a wonderful festhall where there is always a story to be heard, and there are a great number of paths that can be found throughout this
branch. There is even a rumor that there is a portal leading directly to the Moon of Toril (Selune), or the Tears of Selune. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:04:50
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The Golden Hills branch estends as far as the eyes can see. The branch itself crosses the House of Knowledge branch, if only touching the outlands for Gond's sake. The rest of the branch leads across Bytopia exclusively. The only realm that touches the Golden
Hills Branch is Urdlen's, which is truly the 399th layer of the Abyss. The strangest part of this branch is that it does not allow the passage of either Celestials or Fiendish beings, only Primes and Deities. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:05:50
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| The halflings of the Green Fields live on a soft, moss covered branch that extends into great, grassy fields that can be found on Mount Celestia, Elysium, and the Outlands. The branch sways more than any other branches, which tend to be relatively stable. This is in order for Brandobaris to have a direct way home from any plane that he may be on at that time. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:06:41
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| The dark Hammergrim root is where the Duergar and other evil dwarven deities live, and they spend much of their time debating on how they will tunnel to the Dwarfhome root, perhaps even destroying it entirely and forcing the Dwarves into a much better work routine. This root exclusively reaches into Acheron, but can shift to hold conferences with the rest of the Dwarven Pantheon with the assistance from Moradin as necessary. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:08:10
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Heliopolis grows from root to branch, and is an odd one indeed. It reaches into Arborea, Ysgard, Elysium, the Nine Hells, the Outlands, and even touches the Prime Material in Mulhorand. This point of contact is one of the easiest in the Realms, and many Faerunian
Planewalkers start their journeys of discovery from Mulhorand. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:16:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
As to the "other" deities of the realms not yet covered, I plan on getting the book of Realms' Giants' mythology (Giantcraft, correct?)
That's right.
quote:
... as well as the Monstrous deities of the Realms (source, please, even if it's not "core Realms" of 2e).
You'll probably require copies of both Monster Mythology and On Hallowed Ground [which isn't available as a Paizo PDF download unfortunately] as well. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 30 Jul 2008 04:17:27 |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:16:54
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Primarily in the Outlands and the Beastlands, the House of Knowledge's branch leads in many conflicting directions and hides a great many secrets. This does imply that the defenses are quite strong, but this may or may not be the case.
There are even rumors of a non-Realms deity that is attempting to cause a great deal of trouble within the House of Knowledge, a one-eyed lich of great power and keeper of great secrets. When and if he truly reveals himself, the consequences could be dire for all on Abeir-Toril.
::Author's Note:: This is a not-so-thinly veiled reference to the events of Die Vecna Die, which I had initially placed in 1385 DR in my personal timeline for all the planes. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:18:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
As to the "other" deities of the realms not yet covered, I plan on getting the book of Realms' Giants' mythology (Giantcraft, correct?)
That's right.
quote:
... as well as the Monstrous deities of the Realms (source, please, even if it's not "core Realms" of 2e).
You'll probably want copies of both Monster Mythology and On Hallowed Ground [which isn't available as a Paizo PDF download unfortunately].
Many thanks, Sage. That's what I had thought, but I figured I'd check first. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:20:08
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| The House of Nature's branch leads across the upper planes, mostly. The Beastlands, Outlands, and Elysium are the most common places, with one or two points touching the Prime Material so that Lurue and Gwaeron Windstorm may enter the House of Nature to call upon assistance when necessary. There are many points of contact, mostly across the North, Sword Coast, Dalelands, and the Moonsea, but there are others, and they tend to be places of worship for Gwaeron and Lurue. Not at all strangely, these truly holy sites are very, very well guarded. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:22:06
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The House of the Triad's tri-sided branch leads across Mechanus, Bytopia, Mount Celestia, and the Prime. This branch is oddly rigid in shape and size, remaining thick until nearly the end of the branch, which waves across the Prime at strangely even intervals. This pattern at which it touches is random, primarily determined by Helm (of all deities), and conferred with Siamorphe.
::Author's Note:: This is a reconciliation, in my mind, from the events where Helm struck down Mystra during the ToT. perhaps this is a granted power from Ao to help Helm become a stronger Guardian... |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:24:20
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The burnt root, the serpentine root, leads to the Nine hells. This root only leads to the Nine hells, places unfit for civilized folk, but containing a rigid caste system within itself. It is as structured and rigid as it is terrifying.
::Author's Note:: I personally like the multiple origins for the planes and the Nine Hells in particular. I prefer the Guide to Hell version with Ahriman and Jazirian as the "truth," even the chaotic have a place within the planes... a structured type of chaos, but a place nonetheless. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:27:39
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Nishrek is an odd root. It leads Acheron, a primarily “lawful” plane that contains some of the most chaotic beings in existance, the Orc Pantheon and Goblin Pantheons (which are oddly chaotic for a "lawful" pantheon). Their combined ideas and destructive nature are played out quite well on the metallic surface of the great cubes
within.
::Author's Notes:: I have a lot of these, don't I? Anyhoo... I really like the Pathfinder goblins, and as such I have adapted most of the Realms goblins to that style of freakish-ness. The only ones I haven't touched in that manner are the Dekanter and Grodd goblins. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:30:31
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| Until recently, the plane of shadow was considered a demi, or semi, plane. The effects of the Time of Troubles combined with resurgence in power with the City of Shade has helped the domain of Shadow to become a “true” plane in scholarly minds. Both Mask and Shar have realms here, but are not exactly strong allies. The Shadow Weave is very strong here, with the actual weave much diminished while on this plane. There is even a rumor that Shar herself temporarily allied with Mask to bring the plane into a closer proximity to the Prime Material to facilitate the return of Shade. Again, this is a wild speculation, but due to the Return of Shade, is it such a wild idea? |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:32:59
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The Prime Material, Faerun, contains many seeds, and even some places that should touch the planes. There are some, however, that do not touch anything. Both Gargauth and Eshowdow do not reach into the outer planes, but keep within Faerun itself, not touching the Great Tree at all.
The Prime Material on Toril even extends it's own branches out to other worlds, and realms. The Imaskar empire brought many slaves from the far reaches of the Prime material, and, more recently, the now Dead god Moander brought the Saurials from an unknown world.
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"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:34:53
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The Supreme Throne's root leads through howling caverns within Pandemonium. The only deity to reside here is Cyric, and he seems to be perfectly happy with that arrangement.
::author's Note:: KnightErrantJR's anatomy of an apocalypse adds some new flavor to Cyric's madness. Perhaps the ideas in there could be utilized here, but due to the date not being during that timeframe, I have not allowed myself to use it (much to my own dismay). |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:37:58
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The Warrior's Rest is a great branch indeed. It reaches from Limbo to the Prime Material, to Pandemonium, and then back again “up” to Ysgard. The largest temple to Red Knight is where the branch touches the Prime, allowing Red Knight the safety of the realms without forcing her within.
and, finally:
And the only “voluntary” sleeping power on Faerun is Ulutiu, where there is little that can be said until the end of the world.
Now, on the Astral plane sits the dead powers of the Realms, as well as the deities of other unknown worlds that have passed on. The one striking revelation in all of this research is that all of the deities that are "dead" have been accounted for, except one. Leira. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 04:43:54
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And there we have it, all of the deities accounted for and placed within the proper locations on the Great Wheel (or at least close to the right locations). What I hope you take away from this is an idea or two for a "planar" adventure that opens a prime from Toril's eyes to the greater planes, or, perhaps, even decide that some of this might just fit into your campaign.
As far as the dead deities, I haven't placed them anywhere other than the Astral, and Leira's body may be in the astral, just invisible to those who want to find her, and visible to those who don't. Perhaps her "avatar" that was slain wasn't her at all, but that is for you to decide.
As to the Bane/Xvim idea, I have to give full credit to KnightErrantJR for that wonderful idea. It adds a certain flavor, and I personally use his write up on that that you can find here on Candlekeep.
Anyways, thank you everyone for reading, and I'll edit each section as all of us scribes add to the "non-canon lore." And Sage, do expect me to get the rest of the deities done, although it may take me just as long as it did to finish this particular bit, but I will finish the lore 
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
Edited by - Darkmeer on 30 Jul 2008 04:44:52 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 06:16:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
And Sage, do expect me to get the rest of the deities done, although it may take me just as long as it did to finish this particular bit, but I will finish the lore
Neat.
If you do find you'll require some assistance with that, feel free to drop me a PM. 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 30 Jul 2008 06:17:31 |
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3.5 - Managing the tree and the 
