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Originally posted by BruceCordell

One of the things I really enjoyed about Susan's story was its many compelling images.

The waterbreathing spell that caused "[...] five red gashes to open on each side of Maze's neck likes cuts from a tiger's claws. The woman fell into the into the water, the red gashes fluttered open and closed [...]";

The ungainly grace of the undead who moved with unholy vigor;

The litter left behind when nothing alive remained to care, creating a "[...] carpet of coins, papers, buttons and refuse. [...] a dark ribbon tied around a lock of muddy hair, a half-eaten trail ration crawling with moon-white maggots, a silver heart-shaped locket with broken hinges and shattered glass, a much folded sketch of a woman looking back over her shoulder ..."

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Really? The language here reads to me like the author is trying way too hard to be fancy-shmancy. The turns of phrase are hardly all that creative, and "like cuts from a tiger's claw" is a simile that's both trite and cumbersome. "The ungainly grace of the undead who moved with unholy vigor" is downright hideous. Ungainly, undead, unholy? It's almost clever, but it's not really. Not to mention that "ungainly grace" is a silly oxymoron.

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Originally posted by Ozzalum

If you use the words "downright hideous" and "almost creative" (whatever that means) for a sentence with three words beginning with un-, what's left to describe modern art?

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"Ungainly grace" to describe a shambling undead is fine. I think the idea is that the undead shuffles about, has stiff joints, but doesn't ever fall down.

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The third passage is better than the rest.

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Originally posted by Ozzalum

I understand that you are very serious about your opinions and will always have a pointed rejoinder, so let me come at this from a different angle. The writing is only hackneyed and trite if the reader has sufficient experience to realize that the phrases are over used. That might not be the case for the general DnD audience. For instance, I didn't make that connection with "unholy vigor." I have no doubt that is my fault for not reading more fantasy books.

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Originally posted by Karzak

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Originally posted by Ozzalum

I understand that you are very serious about your opinions and will always have a pointed rejoinder, so let me come at this from a different angle. The writing is only hackneyed and trite if the reader has sufficient experience to realize that the phrases are over used. That might not be the case for the general DnD audience. For instance, I didn't make that connection with "unholy vigor." I have no doubt that is my fault for not reading more fantasy books.

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On the contrary: "unholy ____" is exactly the kind of phrase I expect to crop up in a D&D spin-off novel/fanfiction. Well, that and the narrative of a lazy/bored DM.

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Originally posted by Ranak

Karzak could not be more wrong in this case.

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Originally posted by Karzak

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Originally posted by Ranak

Karzak could not be more wrong in this case.

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What, that it is trite? That it is the kind of thing that would pop up in D&D spin-off novels, fanfiction, and lazy DM's narratives? I'm pretty sure I'm quite right on that count. It's even quite redundant. Yeah, yeah, undead, animated by wooooo spooky dark necromantic magics wooooo. Of course it is unholy; does anyone expect your average undead, barring the "good" liches and all the rest, to be "holy"? Sanctified maybe? Consecrated perhaps? You could just as well say that "the water was wet" is an efficient description. Sure it is. But does it have a point? You'd think that with limited space, a writer would be more inclined to cut out redundancies, not less.

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Trite by definition implies that the phrase has become ineffective,and it has not. You might be trying to say that it is overused, which is related, but wholly different and not mutually exclusive. It is a common mistake, don't feel bad about it.

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Originally posted by Karzak

Oh, really?

Oxford English Dictionary:

trite, a.

1. Worn out by constant use or repetition; devoid of freshness or novelty; hackneyed, commonplace, stale.

2. Well worn; worn out by rubbing; frayed; of a road or path, well-trod, beaten, frequented.

Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry:
trite Listen to the pronunciation of trite
Pronunciation:
#712;tr#299;t
Function:
adjective
Inflected Form(s):
trit·er; trit·est
Etymology:
Latin tritus, from past participle of terere to rub, wear away — more at throw
Date:
1548

: hackneyed or boring from much use : not fresh or original
— trite·ly adverb
— trite·ness noun
synonyms trite, hackneyed, stereotyped, threadbare mean lacking the freshness that evokes attention or interest. trite applies to a once effective phrase or idea spoiled from long familiarity <“you win some, you lose some” is a trite expression>. hackneyed stresses being worn out by overuse so as to become dull and meaningless <all of the metaphors and images in the poem are hackneyed>. stereotyped implies falling invariably into the same pattern or form <views of minorities that are stereotyped and out-of-date>. threadbare applies to what has been used until its possibilities of interest have been totally exhausted <a mystery novel with a threadbare plot>.

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Trite by definition implies that the phrase has become ineffective,and it has not. You might be trying to say that it is overused, which is related, but wholly different and not mutually exclusive. It is a common mistake, don't feel bad about it.

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It's a common mistake to assume your arbitrary definition of a word is honest-to-goodness fact, or that a word has one single absolute meaning. Don't feel bad about it.

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Originally posted by Karzak

Your selective reading is impressive.

devoid of freshness or novelty; hackneyed, commonplace, stale.

not fresh or original

stereotyped implies falling invariably into the same pattern or form

threadbare applies to what has been used until its possibilities of interest have been totally exhausted

But many people possess no reading comprehension. Don't worry about it!

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Originally posted by Ranak

But let's end this back and forth, and focus on the positive aspects of the story!

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Originally posted by Hoondatha

Overall, poorly plotted, badly researched, badly written, with uninteresting characters. Not much to like, at least for me.

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As I mentioned in another thread, a lot of the stories were servicable and mildly interesting, but didn't "hit me in the gut" and make me think "Wow, that was the craziest twist I've seen in a long time" or "Now there's something people should think about more."

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Originally posted by Ozzalum


Is this a difference in expectations between a full length book and a short story?

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Not necessarily, because I'd prefer that a novel I read turns out to be striking rather than merely interesting. Or worse--not interesting.

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