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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2008 :  06:47:09  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Well, Saint Dionysius works for Ilmater (IIRC), and I heard he was a bit of a lush in life, so there ya' go.


I always thought he was named Dionysius the same way Artemis (whatever his surname is) is named Artemis... Homage to Dionysius, but not the same as the Greek deity. (Artemis isn't even the same gender! I know it's a "boys" name in the US, but honestly I hate that it is. It's a disgrace to the goddess herself, IMHO!)

(Edit: Before people start in on me being sexist against men, my reasoning on the Artemis name is this - Artemis had little or nothing to do with men, and, in fact, she was one of the virginal gods of the Greeks... The only man who saw her naked ended up being turned into a stag, then ripped apart by her hounds. There is a dissonance for me in the name being used for a male.)

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.

Edited by - Zandilar on 18 Oct 2008 06:49:26
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
653 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2008 :  08:18:24  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar

(Edit: Before people start in on me being sexist against men, my reasoning on the Artemis name is this - Artemis had little or nothing to do with men, and, in fact, she was one of the virginal gods of the Greeks... The only man who saw her naked ended up being turned into a stag, then ripped apart by her hounds. There is a dissonance for me in the name being used for a male.)


Yeah, but come on - how was Artemis's mother supposed to know? It's hardly commeon knowledge here, so the slums of Calimport probably never got the memo. Come to think of, it would be interesting to see what happens to people who see Artemis naked

Club Secretary of the Dragons on the Hill RPG Club of London, UK: http://dragonsonthehill.co.uk/.

Edited by - Thauramarth on 18 Oct 2008 08:19:23
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2008 :  09:37:16  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
Re: Zandilar: Greek Artemis: Actually, he was a hunter before being "staggered" by the goddess's beauty, and he was ripped apart by his *own* hounds... which makes it even nastier, imho.

Re: Thauramarth: Realms Artemis: That would be amusing... particularly if Catti-Brie is the test subject.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 18 Oct 2008 09:43:35
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Kamuraki
Learned Scribe

USA
78 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2008 :  16:34:54  Show Profile  Visit Kamuraki's Homepage Send Kamuraki a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Well, Saint Dionysius works for Ilmater (IIRC), and I heard he was a bit of a lush in life, so there ya' go.

For some reason, I just picture a Halfling God with the food portfolio.

Remind me to tell you guys sometime about my Confectioner's Guild based in Greyhawk... it was my fantasy version of the Teamsters.



I hadn't thought of that. Halfling Gods actually would be a good place to look for that. If I had my 2e stuff here at my new apartment, I'd look it up right now and tell you for sure, but alas, storage space...

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

- Douglas Adams
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khorne
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1071 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2008 :  19:13:45  Show Profile  Visit khorne's Homepage  Click to see khorne's MSN Messenger address Send khorne a Private Message
Ed, I was reading the first two books in the Knights of myth drannor trilogy, when a thought about conspiracies came to my mind. We have seen soooo many examples of hrasted nobles trying to take over the country, causing not inconsiderable damage every time. What I'm wondering is; has there ever been a counter-conspiracy? Consisting of citizens of Cormyr who are not nobles, and have concluded that a good way to serve the country would be to kill as many noble fools as possible, in order to strengthen the dragon throne and throw the traitorous pigs into confusion (I suppose it's quite obvious by now that I despise the concept of nobility).

If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy
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Kamuraki
Learned Scribe

USA
78 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2008 :  19:49:06  Show Profile  Visit Kamuraki's Homepage Send Kamuraki a Private Message
Perhaps we should refer to you as 'Comrade Khorne' from now on ;)

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

- Douglas Adams
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khorne
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1071 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2008 :  20:05:54  Show Profile  Visit khorne's Homepage  Click to see khorne's MSN Messenger address Send khorne a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kamuraki

Perhaps we should refer to you as 'Comrade Khorne' from now on ;)

Huh? I'm not a communist. I just find the concept of people having power just because of who their parents were repulsive.

If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy

Edited by - khorne on 18 Oct 2008 20:06:21
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4788 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  10:48:35  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by khorne

quote:
Originally posted by Kamuraki

Perhaps we should refer to you as 'Comrade Khorne' from now on ;)

Huh? I'm not a communist. I just find the concept of people having power just because of who their parents were repulsive.



It's happened since time immemorial in every nation and place on Earth right up until the present day. But I see your point.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Kamuraki
Learned Scribe

USA
78 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  15:32:43  Show Profile  Visit Kamuraki's Homepage Send Kamuraki a Private Message
Was just teasing, Khorne. I happen to agree with you for the most part. Anyway, Ed, I was wondering if we'll see any post spellplague novels from you? You may have answered this already.

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

- Douglas Adams
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  17:54:58  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, all. Kamuraki, Ed tells me it would be ethically inappropriate for him to provide ANY details at this time, but in answer to your query: "Anyway, Ed, I was wondering if we'll see any post spellplague novels from you?" he replies thus:


Yes.



So saith Ed. Who will reply with longer, richer, and more fulsome Realmslore replies to divers queries in this thread, starting later today (he promises, barring his Net access going down or some such other falloon.
love to all,
THO
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Kamuraki
Learned Scribe

USA
78 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  18:36:16  Show Profile  Visit Kamuraki's Homepage Send Kamuraki a Private Message
That's cool, I'm just happy to hear we'll be getting more stuff from him. If anyone can salvage what's left of the realms, it's him. :)

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

- Douglas Adams
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13435 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  20:13:02  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Whats left of the Realms?

Ohhh... you must be talking about that weird nightmare I had, where the timeline was advanced beyond 1385 DR.

Thank God it was just a dream.....

quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar

I always thought he was named Dionysius the same way Artemis (whatever his surname is) is named Artemis... Homage to Dionysius, but not the same as the Greek deity.
Originally, they were one and the same, but after the Bloodstone modules got retconned into Ed's Realms, he was demoted to a 'Saint of Ilmater', who was once a mortal follower of Ilmater.

Which leaves one to wonder why Greek names are common in Calimshan.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 19 Oct 2008 20:24:48
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  20:34:50  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by khorne

quote:
Originally posted by Kamuraki

Perhaps we should refer to you as 'Comrade Khorne' from now on ;)

Huh? I'm not a communist. I just find the concept of people having power just because of who their parents were repulsive.


True, monarchies aren't great, but the other methods of determining power are just as repulsive:
- power goes to the ones who can tell the most frightening stories (theocracies);
- power goes to the ones who can pointlessly spend the most money and tell the most attractive lies (democracies);
- power goes to the ones who are willing to do anything to take and keep it (autocracies);
- power goes to the ones who can demonstrate the lowest rate of efficiency in turning that power into results (bureaucracies);
- power goes every which way madly off in all directions (anarchy).


Edit: From this, of course, we can conclude that the best form of government is the unnecessary one, and that is a utopian pipe dream.

Final Edit: "Democracy is the worst form of government... except for all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill (possible paraphrase)

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 19 Oct 2008 20:42:22
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13435 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  20:55:53  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Actually, ours is an aristocracy, not a democracy - rulership by 'the Elite'.

Unless you think you can run for president with two nickels in your pocket.

Edit: I should ask something On-Topic, before I get Mod-whipped (in which case, I vote we get a female Mod )

Ed, what did you (or still) have east of your Thay? Did you imagine the 'Endless wastes', or was something else there?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 19 Oct 2008 20:59:48
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  21:13:28  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Actually, ours is an aristocracy, not a democracy - rulership by 'the Elite'.

Unless you think you can run for president with two nickels in your pocket.



Hence my definition. But yes, I realize that we live in an elected plutocracy, regardless of whether that's Canada or the U.S.A. The world teaches us that the only form of government that doesn't exist is a universally fair one.

Ed: I second Markustay's question.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 19 Oct 2008 21:17:16
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2008 :  23:11:02  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
STEADY, please, scholars, STEADY. This is Ed's scroll, please remember.




I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2008 :  00:14:53  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, all. This time I bring the words of Ed of the Greenwood in response to a mid-June (this year) query from Ardashir, specifically this: “I would like to ask Mister Greenwood something about the evil deities and their priesthoods in the Realms: it's been stated that several evil clergies (of Malar, Loviatar, etc.) can and do at times operate openly in non-evil communities, such as those in Sembia or Cormyr. While this will vary from place to place, just how well do the clerics get along with local laws that might otherwise make their worship difficult, and how do the wiser clerics and local authorities ensure that things don't get out of hand, with either lawless adventurers or foolish priests starting riots?

Any such information about the Church of Malar would be especially helpful. I remember them as being present when Azoun was fighting for Cormyr (and getting quite a bit of respect for being CE butchers), and when one adds in the sort of behavior they've shown in the past, like breeding monsters to turn loose on the local area or driving wolf packs through farming villages in a hunt, I wonder how and why the Cormyrean crown puts up with them.”
Ed replies:



The Crown puts up with them because they are useful; if, for example, the Church of Malar in Cormyr is only permitted to breed monsters or hunt beasts in specific border areas, they can (by their very presence) act as obstacles to raiding out of the Stonelands or Archendale or Tunland, or Sembians conducting all sorts of smuggling, livestock rustling, and suchlike along the Thunder Peaks - - as well as keeping genuine “marauding monster” populations in check, and cutting down on brigands operating across the borders.
War Wizards covertly mind-scry particular priests from time to time to see what the priests have observed in these wilderland areas, and for any evidence of Malarites covertly working with such “foes of the realm” in return for coin or other inducements.
In general, violent and evil faiths such as those of Malar and Loviatar “get along” with governments by worshipping largely behind closed doors and always within agreed-upon limits (i.e. no kidnapping innocents, citizens, or government representatives to be part of a hunt, no use of drugs or blackmail or other coercion to gain converts or subjects for rituals; e.g. a masochist can volunteer to be flogged by a priestess of Loviatar, but neither the priestess nor a lay member of the faith can try to gain any sort of hold over the masochist to force or strongly influence them into agreeing to be flogged).
Like anyone else conspiring against the Crown, priests are subject to Crown justice, so churches that openly defy important laws (“criminal” as opposed to “civil” matters) or who openly work against the Crown (attacking or mistreating soldiers or Crown agents) will be harshly dealt with; being “holy” confers no immunity, as opposed faiths will happily speak out against the “miscreant clergy,” and the Crown can always claim the role of “trying to be impartial and secular central balance between various faiths, for the good of all.”
As a result, churches tend to work against governments only through means of subtle influence, unless they can BECOME the government (at least locally). In Sembia, getting what they want can often be achieved through bribery or otherwise “playing the mercantile game” (getting into a particular market and buying and selling extensively, offering better prices or deals than other players, but otherwise behaving like any other merchant), and in Cormyr, the ways to get what they want is either covert cooperation with noble families or ambitious “wannabe” nobles, or by quietly reaching explicit deals with the Crown (read: with Vangerdahast, for most of the last few decades), and then strictly adhering to them. In other words, VERY carefully following the (often unofficial, and unknown by the populace) rules set down by the authorities, and in return being allowed to do certain things whilst the authorities continually “turn a blind eye.”
Promising to come to the aid of Crown agents, sometimes militarily, when a certain summons or alarm is raised, is one thing both the churches of Loviatar and Malar have agreed with the War Wizards to do, those of Loviatar helping maintain law and order (and apprehend certain specific individuals, when asked) in Marsember, Arabel, and Suzail, and those of Malar doing the same in rural areas. In return, the Malarites can hunt certain miscreants and some of the royal deer and specific monsters or sorts of beasts (and invite nobles and the wealthy and others they desire to, along to participate in such activities, in hopes of gaining offerings or converts), and those of Loviatar can carry on some of their more sexual and enticing to non-members rituals in certain clubs and other establishments in hopes of gaining offerings or converts . . . and so on.
No evil church can expect to incite worshippers or lay citizens against the Crown (or any law), or publicly practice rituals that scare or harm members of the general public or defy the authorities, and continue to be tolerated in the land. The “heavy stuff” goes on behind firmly-closed temple doors, and much secrecy and excitement is thereby attached to it; in public, the clergy are models of good behaviour.
Note that while this means average citizens may respect or even fear (and avoid) said clergy, they will almost always NOT attack, deride, or dispute with said clergy. In the Realms, everyone believes in and worships ALL the gods, remember, not a single “God” of good, and so understands and accepts the purpose and major aims of every faith. (Not necessarily agrees with or supports; I wrote “accepts” in the meaning of tolerates and understands the place in society each faith occupies.) This does not mean every devout worshipper in a faith sees eye to eye with every cleric; indeed, many faiths have bitter internal fights, schisms, and ongoing debates, and many high priests are watched very closely by lay worshippers deciding which temple to “obey the most and gift with the most,” and which to treat with by doing the bare minimum their beliefs require.
Only clergy, paladins, and fanatics specialize, remember; everyone else in the Realms is constantly poised between the gods, making offerings, participating in rituals, and seeking guidance as they see fit, from among all of the gods, as the situations and necessities of their personal lives suggest is most appropriate.
To address your specific query about violent Malarite priests: those particular clerics are either dead (killed by the Crown or others), cast out of the church to appease the authorities (or hustled covertly out of Cormyr to postings elsewhere, by clergy who then tell the authorities that “internal punishments as directed by the Divine One [Malar] have been enacted upon the wayward”), delivered to the Crown for secular justice, or they have repented, the church has made redress to the Crown, and they have “smartened up” and are no longer engaging in the objectionable sorts of behaviours. There have even been incidents where Malarite priests who persist in covert self-serving dealings that will give the church a bad name are “caught” by Crown agents or hired adventurers because other members of the church have tipped off the authorities as to when and where to catch them (usually “red-handed” and therefore deserving of on-the-spot justice, particularly if they decide to fight).
In Cormyr, these days, Malarite priests tend to breed monsters for temple guardian roles (deploying them in areas where they can’t get out to roam “greater Cormyr,” but are confined to temple property), for sale to nobles as “hunt quarries” (released by the Malarites in specific locations, so the nobles can hunt but the Malarites have to “stand watch” to down the beasts if they get away, the Crown holding the Malarites responsible for any deaths caused by the beasts to persons not of the hunting party, and the War Wizards watching over all such beast releases, it being a serious crime for Malarites to perform such a release without informing the War Wizards well beforehand), and for temple butchery in rituals, for sales of trophy heads and other body parts, and for the most expensive feast tables (the latter two practices being major sources of temple revenue). All monster breedings must be fully reported to the War Wizards, to prevent two things: secret crossbreads (chimarae-style beasts the Crown is unaware-of), and the establishment of secret-from-the-Crown armies or packs of monsters, in temple or private hands (e.g. a noble buys them from the church).
Clergy of faiths that work against law and order (e.g. Shar and Talos) will thrive in socially-chaotic areas such as Westgate or Sembia, where they can play one group or employer off against another), but keep a much lower profile in well-policed lands such as Cormyr - - where they will tend to operate as “pay me and take part in this [sexual, or drinking and dancing, or otherwise enticing] ritual, and the deity will attempt to make your desire real, over time, in some non-specific manner.” They may prey upon worshippers as do-nothing charlatans more than they achieve anything concrete, most of the time, but they will maintain a presence in the land and wait for events to make their faith more important, or attractive to factions in the realm, and pnly then dare any open defiances of the authorities. The priests of Talos in Cormyr, for instance, only work magics (in locked temple rooms) to add strength and destructive force to natural storms that are hammering areas of Cormyr; they never CAUSE such storms, or steer the paths such storms take, because they know War Wizards are watching for that. However, if a storm should cause harm to a War Wizard, how is that their fault? (They will ask oh-so-innocently, after helping the storm collapse a cottage on the wizard’s head.)
Priests and priestesses of Shar often use sexual wiles to establish personal relationships with persons of authority, and try to sew chaos by suggesting particular deeds, decrees, and ideas to their lovers. They are very seldom foolish enough to draw daggers and seek to carve up soldiers or Crown agents in the streets; a dead foe is just that: dead, and soon to be replaced by another. An INFLUENCED foe is well on the way to becoming an ally, and increasing the influence of the deity.
And THAT’S how such faiths work, within a law-and-order jurisdiction (please note all the juicy opportunities for adventure).



So saith Ed. Creator of the Realms, Cormyr, Shar, Malar, Talos - - and the War Wizards and Vangerdahast, too.
love to all,
THO
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Pierre-Luc
Acolyte

Canada
13 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2008 :  00:32:28  Show Profile  Visit Pierre-Luc's Homepage Send Pierre-Luc a Private Message
And what about Cyric's Church in Cormyr (or Westgate, Sembia, Luruar, Waterdeep, Nelanther Isles, Amn, Baldur's Gate...)?
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2008 :  01:17:38  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

One additional question about churches and law and order...

When one dies, one ends up in the fugue plane and from there taken to the realm of their patron deity, provided said individual is neither faithless nor false.

If, for example, a Cyricist worshiping "serial killer" is captured by the Purple Dragons in Cormyr - would he/she be sentenced to death, even knowing that the murderer is just going to his/her deity (Cyric, to whom they were obviously faithful)? How could death be seen as a true and just punishment under those circumstances?

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2008 :  01:51:12  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen

STEADY, please, scholars, STEADY. This is Ed's scroll, please remember.
Indeed.

Please scribes, this is the scroll for questions to Ed, and discussions about those questions. Side-topics and non-question related discussions should be taken to their own scroll.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2008 :  02:10:01  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Dear Ed and THO,
I seem to recall Ed ran "library campaigns" for some years (limited-length Realms D&D library programs). One question: how did Ed plan or handle the known, coming-at-a-particular-time endings of such campaigns?
Thanks!
BB
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
653 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2008 :  20:49:04  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Ed replies:

(...) of Loviatar and Malar have agreed with the War Wizards to do, those of Loviatar helping maintain law and order (and apprehend certain specific individuals, when asked) in Marsember, Arabel, and Suzail, (...)




This answer reminds me of an encounter in FRE1 - Shadowdale, where Ed put in an encounter with a distressed priestess of Loviatar in the heart of Arabel, after the Time of Troubles. In the same module, there's another encounter with a proselytising priest trying to attract new followers of Bhaal, Myrkul, Bane, and Tempus, all in a non-violent way.

A mere shadow of all the thought behind it... Splendid answer. Thanks.

Club Secretary of the Dragons on the Hill RPG Club of London, UK: http://dragonsonthehill.co.uk/.
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2008 :  20:50:59  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
Apologies to Ed and THO: I'm performing more thread necromancy here, and I had to perform the process surgically... I'm hoping that Halaster's death has vacated some (or all?)of those NDAs that were in place four years ago when the following questions were first asked. The questions are in blue, and the answers are in red, since a majority of them are [NDA]. Satisfactorily answered questions are quoted in italics.

quote:

The Hooded One
8 October 2004
Melfius, I bring you the rather frisky (and incomplete; see hereafter) replies of Ed, as follows:

1. What is the name of the seventh apprentice? Was it Ezzat as detailed in the Ruins of Undermountain II? Or is Nandel Greenward? Hmmm. That makes eight. I hate mysteries.
[NDA]
2. Do any of the aforementioned apprentices have last names?
Yes, but they’ve not been remembered by, or are not known to, our Realms sources consulted thus far. Perhaps they’ll be revealed in the fullness of [NDA]
3. Has there been documented anywhere any descendants of any apprentices?
No. However, that doesn’t mean no offspring exist. In fact, [NDA]
4. Did Halaster begin holding the MageFairs on his own, or was he working with a group?
Halaster thought he was establishing MageFairs on his own, but in fact more than one deity of magic was whispering subtle suggestions in more than one mortal ear to bring it about. Otherwise, given the paranoid nature of most mages, it’s likely the MageFairs would never have been more than Halaster waiting in some tranquil, remote locale for one or two mages to show up (and the Fairs would have ended the moment one arriving mage attacked, or was attacked by, another). As for who these deities and other mortals were, specifically, I’d have to say [NDA]
5. At what point did Halaster decide to change his name from Hilather?
[NDA]
6. Where/When was Halaster born?
A long time ago, specifically [NDA] in [NDA]
7. What changes have been made to Halaster since Elminster in Hell? (i.e. Is he sane now?)
Like any long-lived mage, Halaster isn’t what most other mortals would call ‘normal,’ and never will be. However, Mystra did some major mental healing (that also involved binding Halaster more closely to her service), ‘offstage’ in the latter part of ELMINSTER IN HELL and thereafter. Halaster did NOT become a Chosen, but reached a ‘separate peace’ with her in return for serving her as an agent (in the events recounted in ELMINSTER IN HELL). He still has his ‘raving times,’ but they’re fewer, shorter, and less severe than before (i.e. he’s far more in touch with reality, and more cunning and less reckless whilst in the throes of them); most of the time he’s in complete control of himself -- and this is no longer governed by his location (in Undermountain or outside of it). That doesn’t mean he’s a ‘happy camper.’ For one thing, he’s both enraged and ashamed at how many years he’s wasted ‘drifting’ in sub-sanity, and is just climbing out of considering himself an utter failure and a rot-fungus on the face of Faerun and into deciding what he’ll devote the rest of his life to. Consider him a magical whirlwind that’s stopped spinning and is poised to decide what to do next. Tremble, Faerun, tremble.
8. When Halster claimed to have been touched by Shar, does this mean he has access to the Shadow Weave?
Halaster HAD access to the Shadow Weave; much of his madness was due to Shar’s whisperings (attempts to mind-control him), which is specifically what he meant by her ‘touch.’ Shar’s influence gave him access to the Shadow Weave, but Halaster’s aged, busy, brilliantly-magic-creative mind couldn’t simultaneously handle mastery of both Weave and Shadow Weave, and so he was losing his sanity (and only thereby keeping Shar at bay: she couldn’t control a mind in such internal chaos). Mystra in effect thrust Shar out (in any contest of pure magic and of mortal mastery of magic, in which Mystra and Shar can exert equal forces against each other, Mystra will always win, because she IS magic, and has supremacy) of Halaster’s mind, banishing all traces of the Shadow Weave forever. What she left behind makes Halaster one of the few mortals whom Shar can never subvert, now. She can break his mind and his body, but not corrupt and come to control him. (In other words, he’s equal to a Chosen of Mystra in this regard. The Chosen who’ve failed Mystra in the past have lost their sanity and ‘fallen away from her love,’ and so become corruptible.)
9. Are there any anecdotes about any of your gaming groups’ encounters with Halaster?
Yes.
Oh, ALL right: I'll unleash THO to answer this when she can (I know she's very busy this weekend), and at that time return with some feeble attempts to answer your other three questions, too.
Ed
So saith the Master. Gawds, Halaster [shudder]! You WOULD have to make me relive those disasters, wouldn't you?
THO

<chopped for brevity; search the 2004 scroll for the phrase "We fled like screaming children" (no quotes) for the details of Halaster's encounters with the Knights.>
10. Where/When did Halaster begin training his apprentices?
A long time ago, specifically [NDA], in a [NDA] far, far away, a ragtag [NDA]
11. Who trained Halaster?
My reply: [MAJOR NDA MAJOR NDA MAJOR NDA ASSUME CONTROL ASSUME CONTROL]
Ahem. It will probably come as no surprise to you to learn that my answers to 12 (What would Halaster’s alignment have been a)when he began training his apprentices b)when he created Halaster’s Hold?) must also be the grim silence of the NDA fortress wall. (Sorry. I am, truly.)



With respect to Question 10: We know from the GHotR (and, probably, earlier sources that I don't have available atm) when Halaster and his apprentices came to the Waterdeep area, so we have a "latest possible" date of 168 DR.

With respect to Question 11: My answer is: Acererak, the Demilich, who in my Realms was an Imaskari archmage; the Tomb of Horrors is in the eastern foothills of the Giant's Belt Mountains. If the canon answer is no longer under NDA, I'm all ears.

With respect to Question 12: Halaster was probably already insane when (as Hilather) he was released from stasis in 128 DR; he entered stasis in -2488 DR (GHotR for both dates)... and it would be interesting to know the details of that too. Why did he enter stasis, and was it his choice or was he forced into it? (Call this Question 12a or Question 13, as you see fit.)

Many thanks for any further answers you can provide. I'm curious as to why these old-era NDAs are being maintained when WotC has stated that they will be focusing on the post-Spellplague era, and I know that subject has been discussed before; I'm just hoping for something to change in that regard.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 20 Oct 2008 22:05:51
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Ashe Ravenheart
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USA
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Posted - 20 Oct 2008 :  22:03:36  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

[quote]
The Hooded One
8 October 2004
... in any contest of pure magic and of mortal mastery of magic, in which Mystra and Shar can exert equal forces against each other, Mystra will always win, because she IS magic, and has supremacy...



SIIIIIIIIIGH

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2008 :  22:08:53  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
Heh... I didn't even see that bit; if I saw a lot of text without the letters NDA, I blocked it off as an answer. I'm not here to flog that particular dead horse, Ashe... but it would be nice if it would get up and run away.

[edit]However, to speculate... if we assume that Shar had the upper hand due to Cyric's involvement (ignoring Azuth, Savras, and Velsharoon, although the last may have joined Shar's side), then Mystra could well have died... taking all of magic with her, including the Shadow Weave, as I see it.[/edit]

[edit]Just one more reason why "canon" doesn't exist post-1375DR for me. Retcons create inconsistencies. Inconsistencies create instabilities. Instabilities create rifts in the fabric of reality, and Elminster should have taught us all by now what those do... I'm feeling a need to change my avatar. The word "shadow" has been leaving a dark, evil, Shar-spawned taste in my mouth lately.[/edit]

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 20 Oct 2008 22:27:41
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