| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Shadowsoul |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 22:32:09
I am not waiting two years to get a Forgotten Realms campaign setting book and I think it's a bit cheeky of Wizards to let it go on so long. I haven't seen or heard anything in their release schedule that even hints at a FRCG. Do they honestly think will be waiting for years to see if one comes?
I won't be. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Old Man Harpell |
Posted - 10 Feb 2015 : 05:36:24
quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
I got an answer back from Ed Greenwood. A very encouraging one.
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
To Baptor, Ed says this:
Oh, do I sympathize with you. I understand how much you want clear answers to these questions you've posed, and I ache to give them. However, every single question you ask runs head-on into NDAs. That exist for very good reasons.
So let me say just this much:
Just a day ago I had a back-and-forth e-mail with a Wizards staffer about a future project, that involved discussion of specific Realmslore details. Two days before that I was providing extensive Realmslore (photo references, text, explanations) for a future fiction-and-game project. And last week I had a fun, if briefer than usual, phone call with many in-house and freelance Realms creatives, about several related upcoming products. (And the word "usual" is chosen deliberately.)
My specific level of involvement with the gaming side of the Realms changes constantly. And always has done, since the very beginning of the published Realms. That's part of the very nature of gaming publishing, it seems to me.
The problem with saying more is that anything I say will fuel speculation, which may be harmful to everyone and go in directions that are utterly or partly off-base. And directions and decisions for the publishing of the Realms and of D&D itself change over time, so that something said firmly and definitely by someone in a position to "know for sure" can be complete truth when said - - and then not happen, or change markedly before it does happen. That's just the nature of the beast.
Right now, I am chest-deep in the Realms. Because this is one of the Saturdays I have off from my library day job (I usually work alternate Saturdays), I spent about ten hours at the keyboard today, pounding out Realms stuff. Honest. But that's about as much as I can say. Besides, peeking behind the curtain beforehand DOES ruin the fun.
And so saith Ed. Sharing as much as he can. I suspect a lot of the future is hidden even from in-house Wizards staffers these days, just because plans change and the nature of publishing means things CAN change faster than they could in the days of booking printing time and ordering paper two years in advance, which is the way things were when I started working in publishing.
Be of good cheer, Realms fans. No matter what happens, Ed will be here for us as long as he's alive. And there are SO many other great folks who love the Realms, from Jeff Grubb and Steven Schend to Eric Boyd and George Krashos to Brian Cortijo and the James brothers to Bob and Erin and Troy and Susan Morris and Phil Athans and Chris Perkins and . . . and . . . every time Markustay draws a new map, and Ed peers at it and smiles, the Realms grows a little stronger. So the Realms, in the end, is as strong and happy-making a setting as YOU make it!
love to all,
THO
Very encouraging if you know how to read between the lines. I am now hopeful we'll get a FRCS. I still think it will be sometime in 2016, though. It sounds like they have much work to do yet.
Awesome. Thanks for sharing. 
- OMH |
| Baptor |
Posted - 09 Feb 2015 : 21:22:53
I got an answer back from Ed Greenwood. A very encouraging one.
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
To Baptor, Ed says this:
Oh, do I sympathize with you. I understand how much you want clear answers to these questions you've posed, and I ache to give them. However, every single question you ask runs head-on into NDAs. That exist for very good reasons.
So let me say just this much:
Just a day ago I had a back-and-forth e-mail with a Wizards staffer about a future project, that involved discussion of specific Realmslore details. Two days before that I was providing extensive Realmslore (photo references, text, explanations) for a future fiction-and-game project. And last week I had a fun, if briefer than usual, phone call with many in-house and freelance Realms creatives, about several related upcoming products. (And the word "usual" is chosen deliberately.)
My specific level of involvement with the gaming side of the Realms changes constantly. And always has done, since the very beginning of the published Realms. That's part of the very nature of gaming publishing, it seems to me.
The problem with saying more is that anything I say will fuel speculation, which may be harmful to everyone and go in directions that are utterly or partly off-base. And directions and decisions for the publishing of the Realms and of D&D itself change over time, so that something said firmly and definitely by someone in a position to "know for sure" can be complete truth when said - - and then not happen, or change markedly before it does happen. That's just the nature of the beast.
Right now, I am chest-deep in the Realms. Because this is one of the Saturdays I have off from my library day job (I usually work alternate Saturdays), I spent about ten hours at the keyboard today, pounding out Realms stuff. Honest. But that's about as much as I can say. Besides, peeking behind the curtain beforehand DOES ruin the fun.
And so saith Ed. Sharing as much as he can. I suspect a lot of the future is hidden even from in-house Wizards staffers these days, just because plans change and the nature of publishing means things CAN change faster than they could in the days of booking printing time and ordering paper two years in advance, which is the way things were when I started working in publishing.
Be of good cheer, Realms fans. No matter what happens, Ed will be here for us as long as he's alive. And there are SO many other great folks who love the Realms, from Jeff Grubb and Steven Schend to Eric Boyd and George Krashos to Brian Cortijo and the James brothers to Bob and Erin and Troy and Susan Morris and Phil Athans and Chris Perkins and . . . and . . . every time Markustay draws a new map, and Ed peers at it and smiles, the Realms grows a little stronger. So the Realms, in the end, is as strong and happy-making a setting as YOU make it!
love to all,
THO
Very encouraging if you know how to read between the lines. I am now hopeful we'll get a FRCS. I still think it will be sometime in 2016, though. It sounds like they have much work to do yet. |
| Old Man Harpell |
Posted - 09 Feb 2015 : 10:42:26
The impression I get, from replies from THO to various questions posed to her to pose to Ed, is that Ed is basically shackled to his keyboard, daily routine notwithstanding. It could very well be that he's taking his time to insure that what's given to us is just so, whether it's Ed's own new concepts, the updating of past lore, collating and editing input from others, trying out his ideas on his gaming group
*wrestles down a look of extreme envy*,
or what have you.
That's the outlook I'm taking. I'm choosing to say that WotC is going to elevate the FRCG to the level that D&D 5th achieved, and that we'll have the FR guide to define all FR guides when the clerks at the game store punch the buttons on the register and hand us our purchases. From all accounts, Ed is really stoked about what we'll be seeing - so I'll wait for however long it takes to see what Ed has in store for us.
- OMH |
| Irennan |
Posted - 09 Feb 2015 : 02:12:11
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
What if it took a little while longer for WOTC to fully tally up the damage that 4E had caused, and they chose to get that definitively settled before greelighting the massive project of a really good FRCS?
Well, that sounds a bit weird. Now, I'm not a designer, so I don't have any experience in that, but -in my humble opinion- laying down the concepts to introduce given changes in a make-believe world doesn't seem to be a multiple years-spanning undertaking. Writing down lore to expand said concepts would be way more time/resource-consuming, but if they were waiting for that to be completed before greenlighting anything, it wouldn't make much sense, as creating said lore would be the same as actually already writing a FRCS.
|
| Baptor |
Posted - 09 Feb 2015 : 00:44:38
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
Crap. You know, now I think about it. You are probably right. I've never known Bob to care about the game itself except where it affected his novels.
That's really harsh.
Bob prefers D&D 1E. He likes the nostalgia, and the relative simplicity of it all.
He attempts to write to the current rules in order to appease his editors, but he's not passionate about the rules of later editions.
And that's really not all that different from the way fans pick and choose which aspects of the game or lore they will use in their home campaigns. Some outright ignore later stuff; others begrudgingly accept bits of the newer stuff, but integrate them with what they love most about the older edition(s).
That kind of piecemeal approach does not hurt the game--not as a fan, and not as a writer, either. It only goes to show that the property is perfectly healthy even with people picking and choosing various elements, buffet style.
Therefore, it's really a non-sequitur to think that Bob's having been less-than-passionate about more-recent rules in any way has a bearing on--well--anything.
You're reading malicious intent into a sentence meant only to convey a fact. A fact you actually agree with. What Bob does with his novels and his characters is jus business. My point was that if Bob had a hand in restoring the realms his concern would be focused on repairing it for the novels and not the game since he is, you know, a writer.
I've actually met Bob. He's a great guy and likeable enough, but like you say, he's not that into the new d&d games so a realms book for use in the game is not tally important to him. It makes sense, and I don't think less of him for it.
I've got a friend who has never played d&d. He just reads the novels. I wouldn't expect him to care about a FRCS either. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 09 Feb 2015 : 00:29:59
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
I'm going to express doubts, as a habitual advocatus diaboli and vocal un-fan of Salvatore's 
While you have a good point and sequel capacity is an advantage...
In itself isn't even an unquestionable boon, especially when the writer in question knows much better than most how he may end up with "an albatross", having to churn out sequels not just until the premise is sucked dry, but ad nauseam and beyond.
Go back and watch <that interview> that Baptor linked to, from the 9:30 mark onward. RAS says:
"I've said many times I'm gonna write this character until I'm not having any fun or nobody wants to read about him. And I'm still having fun."
"But I also love writing about him. It's a good--"
"But it works out, because I really love writing the character, and the characters around him. So, so far, so good. Who knows?"
"It's not just making them [fans] happy. It's reaching them."
I suppose one could read "albatross" somewhere into all of that, much like some presume that Ed is the supreme apologist for RAS's involvement in the Realms for all these years.
But I could swear that Bob's voice seems to quiver and crack a little in there when he talks about how much of a privilege it is to be able to keep writing a character that touches loyal readers like Drizzt does. I don't see any eye-rolling or sighing or slouching or other signs of resignation and apathy.
And as far as ad nauseam goes, I guess one person's nausea is another's nirvana.  |
| BEAST |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 23:44:55
quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
Crap. You know, now I think about it. You are probably right. I've never known Bob to care about the game itself except where it affected his novels.
That's really harsh.
Bob prefers D&D 1E. He likes the nostalgia, and the relative simplicity of it all.
He attempts to write to the current rules in order to appease his editors, but he's not passionate about the rules of later editions.
And that's really not all that different from the way fans pick and choose which aspects of the game or lore they will use in their home campaigns. Some outright ignore later stuff; others begrudgingly accept bits of the newer stuff, but integrate them with what they love most about the older edition(s).
That kind of piecemeal approach does not hurt the game--not as a fan, and not as a writer, either. It only goes to show that the property is perfectly healthy even with people picking and choosing various elements, buffet style.
Therefore, it's really a non-sequitur to think that Bob's having been less-than-passionate about more-recent rules in any way has a bearing on--well--anything. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 23:31:51
quote:
Originally posted by Swordsage
Call me cynical - many do - but's my take is that Salvatore's "fix" for the Realms extended only as far as agitating for a situation (i.e. the Sundering) where he could re-establish his cast of novel characters. "The Companions" is an entertaining novel - I enjoyed it more than the recent Neverwinter stuff that I laboured through. But it was so palpably self-serving that it did nothing to generate any excitement in me for the 5E Realms. If he was being truly honest, he might put an "*" after his "save the Realms" spiel and state sotto voce, "Of course, I'm talking about the Realms in a fiction sense. You roleplaying gamers are on your own."
I don't think he was only interested in saving his characters. But, obviously, he was interested in that.
I think he was also primarily interested in helping to clear the tears out of Ed's eyes after the infamous 4E "marching orders" meeting with WOTC. The concept of the Sundering was probably intended to help Ed to see a glimmer of hope, during the darkness of the early onset of the Spellplague. I doubt Bob ever presumed to do the recreating of the world for the next edition. He's much happier when Ed gets to do that. Just let Ed build the world, giving it a sense of richness and fullness, and Bob is free to continue his Drizzt Saga over in the corner, without having to worry about the underlying foundation and structure of the world. |
| Baptor |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 23:29:47
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
If I had to guess, I would say that the WotC designers got with Bob and Ed back in 2012 to ask them how to fix the Realms, and they told them. I think at that time WotC was eager to revitalize the Realms and produce a new book "full of lore" (as Mike Mearls put it). I think as time went on, Hasbro saw the cost and put a stop to it, believing there would not be a good return on that investment. But that's just a theory.
What if it took a little while longer for WOTC to fully tally up the damage that 4E had caused, and they chose to get that definitively settled before greelighting the massive project of a really good FRCS?
And what if the damage turned out to be that bad?
My understanding is that part of the reason why/how WOTC successfully took over D&D & FR from TSR was because WOTC was more financially conservative and exacting than its competitor/predecessor. That kind of scrutiny of the finances doesn't always yield good news. But it does yield a realistic picture of one's financial standing. This means that one can make future decisions based on solid facts, rather than just conjecture and/or hope--and/or denial.
It sounds like WOTC is tip-toeing extremely carefully right now, threading the needle, avoiding turning over any mini-icebergs in the floe. I'm guessing that it's coasting (brings a whole new meaning to the company's name, huh?) on its few best-selling writers for the time being, in the hopes that there will be a more solid footing upon which to move forward with a FRCS.
Yeah, that's frustrating. But if we have to standby as WOTC pulls the belt a few notches tighter right now to get by, then I for one can do so knowing they have a reputation for making the tough but necessary financial decisions for the greater good. And they have a reputation of saving the property with that financial sense. So I guess for me, the TSR-to-WOTC transition still speaks more loudly than does 4E, and even more loudly than the post-Sundering silence at the present time.
Agreed. I noticed one of the recent novels, Fire in the Blood, is described as still being "during the Sundering." It looks like even though the official "Sundering" line of books is done, the Sundering event is not. It's probably WotC will have its authors pen a few more novels to flesh this Sundering business out before working on a FRCS.
I wasn't before, but now I think I am content to wait. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 23:17:45
quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
If I had to guess, I would say that the WotC designers got with Bob and Ed back in 2012 to ask them how to fix the Realms, and they told them. I think at that time WotC was eager to revitalize the Realms and produce a new book "full of lore" (as Mike Mearls put it). I think as time went on, Hasbro saw the cost and put a stop to it, believing there would not be a good return on that investment. But that's just a theory.
What if it took a little while longer for WOTC to fully tally up the damage that 4E had caused, and they chose to get that definitively settled before greelighting the massive project of a really good FRCS?
And what if the damage turned out to be that bad?
My understanding is that part of the reason why/how WOTC successfully took over D&D & FR from TSR was because WOTC was more financially conservative and exacting than its competitor/predecessor. That kind of scrutiny of the finances doesn't always yield good news. But it does yield a realistic picture of one's financial standing. This means that one can make future decisions based on solid facts, rather than just conjecture and/or hope--and/or denial.
It sounds like WOTC is tip-toeing extremely carefully right now, threading the needle, avoiding turning over any mini-icebergs in the floe. I'm guessing that it's coasting (brings a whole new meaning to the company's name, huh?) on its few best-selling writers for the time being, in the hopes that there will be a more solid footing upon which to move forward with a FRCS.
Yeah, that's frustrating. But if we have to standby as WOTC pulls the belt a few notches tighter right now to get by, then I for one can do so knowing they have a reputation for making the tough but necessary financial decisions for the greater good. And they have a reputation of saving the property with that financial sense. So I guess for me, the TSR-to-WOTC transition still speaks more loudly than does 4E, and even more loudly than the post-Sundering silence at the present time. |
| Old Man Harpell |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 23:07:04
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Everything I have seen from WotC and from former employees who talk about the company indicates that Hasbro does not provide money for projects.
WotC may be owned by Hasbro, but it is still it's own company. Hasbro does not, to my knowledge, pre-approve budgets on individual book projects, because Hasbro is concerned with running Hasbro, not Wizards of the Coast.
Hasbro is concerned with revenue. It's up to WotC to produce the required revenue.
(I apologize if this comes off as overly authoritative or bossy. Not trying to convey that mood, just trying to relay bland information.)
You're right about the process, Jeremy, but WotC has to look at the overall revenue requirements laid down by Hasbro, and decide if their efforts will be able to meet that goal. Hasbro is answerable only to the stockholders, and they care about returns, nothing else. So in a way, Hasbro does make the decision by virtue of the roadmap it puts before WotC's admin.
This all goes back to the Kickstarter question. Negligible risk, with a potential payoff and payout (to the stockholders) of impressive proportions, depending on how it's marketed and advertised to the public. Plus it would be a solid foundation for future products (I alluded to this earlier). All they have to do is decide it's worth spending the time to get the ball rolling. (And no, you didn't come across as bossy, BTW.)
- OMH |
| BEAST |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 22:47:53
quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
Watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLf1hBUr9M4
You can fast forward to the 11:30 mark where Bob talks about the Spellplague and how he and Ed personally cooked up the Sundering to fix it. He then talks about, how after the 4e Realms bombed, James Wyatt came to Bob asking for his help fixing the Realms. Bob said that he personally directed Wyatt and the team through his Sundering plan. Bob basically said, "If you don't like the new Realms, you can blame me. I am taking full responsibility for the new Realms, and I'm quite proud of it."
I'd say that's a lot more than just Icewind Dale. :)
Personally, I am all for a Realms fix that was designed by Bob Salvatore and Ed Greenwood. The question now is, will we ever see it?
At 14:12 in that video interview, Bob says specifically that he had a hand in the Realms 5E, but not so much the game. It was the chain of events that restored some hope for some of the characters and turned around the setting that he was referring to.
At the same time, Bob has repeatedly deferred to Ed as having the final say over the Realms, and has referred to the Realms as being Ed's sandbox. I think Bob was proud to have a part in segueing past 4E to something else, but at that point in the process, there wasn't much sign that he was actively involved in the something else. He was only talking about the transitional process thereto, IMO. This was so as not to steal any of Ed's thunder once the destination of that transition process was revealed.
But whatever the hold-up that is keeping us all from seeing the something else cooked up by Ed is mysterious and frustrating to us all.
As Jeremy alluded to, NDAs just make it worse. 
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I do see your larger point, and I agree it appears WotC drummed up anticipation for the Realms, then didn't follow through after the Sundering books were completed.
I don't agree that Salvatore's statements indicate he's in a position to be a lead designer for the new Realms. He worked on the Sundering, certainly, but that's the extent of the work we know he's done.
I think Jeremy has the right of it.
Bob was proud to have helped pave the way (i.e., the Sundering concept) for Ed to write us some 5E awesomeness. But we're all still waiting on the awesomeness. That irks. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 19:17:30
Everything I have seen from WotC and from former employees who talk about the company indicates that Hasbro does not provide money for projects.
WotC may be owned by Hasbro, but it is still it's own company. Hasbro does not, to my knowledge, pre-approve budgets on individual book projects, because Hasbro is concerned with running Hasbro, not Wizards of the Coast.
Hasbro is concerned with revenue. It's up to WotC to produce the required revenue.
(I apologize if this comes off as overly authoritative or bossy. Not trying to convey that mood, just trying to relay bland information.) |
| Baptor |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 18:58:43
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Hasbro does not decide what products do or do not get produced.
Hasbro sets revenue goals and leaves it to WotC to meet those goals.
Technically right, but not practically so. Hasbro has power of the purse. On earth, there is no greater power. Sure WotC can say, "We are making a FRCS!" But if Hasbro doesn't give them the necessary budget, it ain't getting made.
Either way, it's irrelevant. I think the people actually working on D&D want to do right by us. I could be wrong. I think the money counters (whoever they technically are) would be the ones to shoot it down, not the D&D team.
Again, that is all beside the point. It's not like if one doesn't get made we are going to storm their offices with pitchforks and torches here.
I think one will get made, but I think we will be waiting a year or two for it. Whether its any good will depend on a lot of factors. I have an idea in my head that matches what Bob described as "Eds Realms" that would be excellent. I also have a kind of nightmare scenario where it would be so bad I'd rather stay in 4e. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 18:31:05
Hasbro does not decide what products do or do not get produced.
Hasbro sets revenue goals and leaves it to WotC to meet those goals. |
| Old Man Harpell |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 18:02:14
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
And a Kickstarter campaign would take off like nobody's business - I avoid Kickstarter, but even I would scrounge up a couple hundred bucks for that. I'm putting my brat through university, so it isn't like I have the cash just lying around...but I'd find the money, and I'm supremely confident that I'd be just one of a whole bunch who would.
This is what frustrates me so much. If WotC was really strapped for cash, the Realms has enough of a dedicated fan base out there that are willing to pay through the nose to keep it up and running. Putting up a Kickstarter Campaign, and getting Ed Greenwood to stand behind it--they are guaranteed to get WAY more funding than they need.
Setting it up so people can toss in a few dollars here and there, then at the next level effectively pre-order their copy of the FRCG, at the next level promising a Kickstarter Collector's Edition version with additional artwork and lore, at the next level a Collector's Edition version signed by Ed Greenwood, at the next level a Collector's Edition version signed by Ed Greenwood and a special thanks mention by name as a contributor that helped make the book possible, and at the next level a Collector's Edition version signed by Ed Greenwood plus the special thanks mention and the ability to work with Ed personally to design an organization or town that will be added to the Campaign Guide, etc.
Things like this would get people donating lots of money. They'd have all the cash they'd need to do the FRCG the way it needs to be done--the way it should be done. They could effectively spark a renaissance for the Realms that could surpass the lore information pushed out during 2E if they used Kickstarter.
The financial excuse is not a good one, because the money is out there--there are plenty of hardcore dedicated fans of the setting that are willing to pay a lot of money to keep the setting alive and thriving.
This is it, precisely.
When Marc Miller did the latest edition of Traveller, he used Kickstarter - and got over TWO THOUSAND percent of his goal in funding. I didn't contribute to that...I just wasn't convinced how viable it'd be. I may yet pick up a copy of the book, sure, but as the game isn't on my list of 'to play' games, I'm not all that worried at the moment.
If Miller can get that kind of response for a game that's essentially gone through the same amount of flux as D&D has (and with similar low points), a FRCG 5th has so much potential using the same tack. It really does. I'd bet the pledges from just the people here in the 'Keep would be a substantial chunk of the requisite funds for the project. Hasbro would be risking almost nothing by doing it, too - if the pledges don't pan out, their loss is negligible. If they take off, they could bury Marc Miller's record - and I bet it would, too.
- OMH |
| Baptor |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 18:00:28
quote:
Originally posted by hobbitfan
There are things that just don't make any sense.
Why do the Sundering and follow that up with nothing?
How are they using the Realms as backdrop for the new Adventure paths without any information on what Realms they are playing in?
What are new players and DMs supposed to do?
What are old-school guys coming back supposed to do?
What about people who stuck by the Realms the whole time, staying current?
The answer to all these questions is Hasbro. I stand by the fact I believe that WotC wants to make a FRCS, but if they don't, it will be because the parent company Hasbro (who cares now a wit for D&D except for the money it makes) shut it down.
I firmly believe that 2 years ago WotC was dead serious about resurrecting the Realms in Ed's likeness and trying to reboot the franchise. Of course I think Ed was sincere as well. It's Hasbro I don't trust.
However, I am waxing optimistic. I went back and re-read a lot of the tweets and responses from WotC and got a different impression. The announcement that there would be no 5e Realms actually came from a fan who was at GenCon 2014. Mike Mearls got on the board he was flaming and straight out said that was not the whole truth. He said they meant in the immediate future (a la 2014). Mearls said they would not start work on anything that big until after the DMG had rolled out and they all took a break (which they did in December/January).
That means its a possibility they are now working on a FRCS. It still might not get here by GenCon though, because Mearls also said they don't want to repeat their past mistake (4e *cough*) and so want to take their time making sure they do it right.
As far as Bob Salvatore goes, I think what he meant by being responsible for the Sundering and new Realms was that on that day when James Wyatt asked him what they should do, Bob laid out the plan he and Ed came up with for the Sundering. I think after that meeting, though, Bob stepped away from the development. That's why he has "no idea" what's going on now. He's knee deep in his kickstarter.
My estimation is that we will have our FRCS at GenCon 2016.
Edit: Oh, and I would so get behind a kickstarter if it came to that. |
| Aldrick |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 17:44:17
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
And a Kickstarter campaign would take off like nobody's business - I avoid Kickstarter, but even I would scrounge up a couple hundred bucks for that. I'm putting my brat through university, so it isn't like I have the cash just lying around...but I'd find the money, and I'm supremely confident that I'd be just one of a whole bunch who would.
This is what frustrates me so much. If WotC was really strapped for cash, the Realms has enough of a dedicated fan base out there that are willing to pay through the nose to keep it up and running. Putting up a Kickstarter Campaign, and getting Ed Greenwood to stand behind it--they are guaranteed to get WAY more funding than they need.
Setting it up so people can toss in a few dollars here and there, then at the next level effectively pre-order their copy of the FRCG, at the next level promising a Kickstarter Collector's Edition version with additional artwork and lore, at the next level a Collector's Edition version signed by Ed Greenwood, at the next level a Collector's Edition version signed by Ed Greenwood and a special thanks mention by name as a contributor that helped make the book possible, and at the next level a Collector's Edition version signed by Ed Greenwood plus the special thanks mention and the ability to work with Ed personally to design an organization or town that will be added to the Campaign Guide, etc.
Things like this would get people donating lots of money. They'd have all the cash they'd need to do the FRCG the way it needs to be done--the way it should be done. They could effectively spark a renaissance for the Realms that could surpass the lore information pushed out during 2E if they used Kickstarter.
The financial excuse is not a good one, because the money is out there--there are plenty of hardcore dedicated fans of the setting that are willing to pay a lot of money to keep the setting alive and thriving. |
| Old Man Harpell |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 17:40:44
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
And look at it this way - if the IP rots for too long, Ed gets it back.
- OMH
They could shut down every FR development and just have him writing 1 novel/year to avoid that happening (to my understading, at least).
Anyway, as one of -as you said- '' those who came later who similarly couldn't see the point of Realms 4th, and wouldn't take kindly to another poke in the eye'', seeing all this positivity is kind of reassuring despite the cold silence on WotC's side.
I am, by nature, a pessimist. My wife's annoyingly cheerful nature is what keeps me from sliding off the deep end most days. But this time, I think there's reason to be independently optimistic with the situation. 4th Edition D&D (while in and of itself not a bad system, just not, well, D&D) didn't do so well, they still put out the 4th Edition FRCG - which, as we know, bombed, and was only partially salvaged by the release of the Neverwinter book.
This time, the released system is going gangbusters, and is winning praise left and right. The novels are doing well, the Neverwinter game is doing well...they have all this success in 5th Edition material under their belts. It makes no sense, in my mind, to stop riding the wave. Depending on how they play their cards, that wave might not have even crested yet. We have to hope they see the potential.
I'm prepared to accept the rotten banana of being mistaken, but I think I'll be spared that this time around. 
- OMH |
| Irennan |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 17:18:13
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
And look at it this way - if the IP rots for too long, Ed gets it back.
- OMH
They could shut down every FR development and just have him writing 1 novel/year to avoid that happening (to my understading, at least).
Anyway, as one of -as you said- '' those who came later who similarly couldn't see the point of Realms 4th, and wouldn't take kindly to another poke in the eye'', seeing all this positivity is kind of reassuring despite the cold silence on WotC's side. |
| Old Man Harpell |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 17:04:24
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Just want to pipe in and say that "something's being worked on" could be anything at this point. What Ed is working on could be related to the MMO or the comics, or even a new series of novels.
Brian James said something about they won't produce a book unless they think it's profitable and I think he is spot on. I really think Hasbro is going for the money this time around and I think the RPG itself is going to get the least attention as well as the least investment.
Your point is well-taken, but there is such a thing as positive publicity paying for itself. D&D 5th topped the Amazon charts, and it follows that they'd believe they could squeeze a similar result from a FRCG. Granted, it isn't the system's 'universal' quality, but depending on the balance of lore and crunch (we are talking Ed Greenwood here), it too could be a runaway success. Ed's RPG creativity Realms-wise (not to mention authority) is going to be a driving force, I say.
Ed knows what we're looking for, he knows what we've wanted since after the Spellplague ripped the Realms to bleeding, unrecognizable shreds. Even if he is riding point on a comic adaptation, I'm of the belief that he's primarily going to be spending his time adapting what followed in the novels for those of us who travel the Realms primarily via the game (as I do).
You may yet be proven right - I admit I don't trust Hasbro any further than I can throw them (and lately, that's a lot less). But I think there's real financial viability in following through with the game material. And look at it this way - if the IP rots for too long, Ed gets it back. And a Kickstarter campaign would take off like nobody's business - I avoid Kickstarter, but even I would scrounge up a couple hundred bucks for that. I'm putting my brat through university, so it isn't like I have the cash just lying around...but I'd find the money, and I'm supremely confident that I'd be just one of a whole bunch who would.
- OMH |
| hobbitfan |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 16:50:59
There are things that just don't make any sense.
Why do the Sundering and follow that up with nothing?
How are they using the Realms as backdrop for the new Adventure paths without any information on what Realms they are playing in?
What are new players and DMs supposed to do?
What are old-school guys coming back supposed to do?
What about people who stuck by the Realms the whole time, staying current? |
| Shadowsoul |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 16:44:56
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Ed's been writing a ton of material for the post-Spellplague Realms, he wrote the last Realms sourcebook and by all accounts is knee deep in the 5E Realms. It doesn't follow in the least that he has no interest in the gaming side of things.
Sune's Boobs...I'm agreeing with Jeremy again...
Anyone who remembers (and I am sure Jeremy will back me up here), few were as negative on the 4th Edition Realms ("Shattered Realms" was the term I borrowed and used constantly) as I was. It took truly Herculean patience and more than likely several fits of exasperation on the part of Diffan and a couple of others to point out where things could be not only salvaged, but viable (that and the Neverwinter materials). When James Wyatt admitted that Realms 4th had 'gone off the rails', I didn't feel the expected 'I told you so' vindication, but even though that did distantly occur to me in the intellectual sense, my first thought on reading the scroll in question (I believe it was Aldrick who started it?) was 'they're actually going to do something about it!'
I won't try to speculate on RAS's role from this point forward (I avoid most forms of social media), but Wooly's correspondence with Ed indicates that there is something in the pipe. Ed would not, put plainly, ever lie to us. If there is not, in fact, game-related material planned, such as a FRCG, it's because he's been lied to first, and they simply haven't had the courage to tell him. And I just don't see them pulling that kind of brazenly stupid stunt - it would alienate far too many people, Ed among them, and they have to be aware of that.
For all of them pushing their 'you can run this adventure anywhere' schtick, it's obvious (not least in the Tiamat adventure duology) that the Realms is where it defaults to. Giving a solid foundation for more of these adventures is not only in their best interests financially, it means they can also use it to make references in the adventures that follow ("to reference X on Y, refer to the FRCG, page 201"). So for a more complete idea of how to use X in the campaign, why, that FRCG is the exact ticket, the central clearinghouse for All Things post-Sundering. Will that be cash or Mastercard?
I will wait. I think there's good reason to be optimistic. I've been wrong before, but I don't think this is one of those times. I think they're aware of just how upset a lot of us were the last time around, and one thing they're desperate to avoid is alienating not only hidebound antediluvians like I am, but many of those who came later who similarly couldn't see the point of Realms 4th, and wouldn't take kindly to another poke in the eye.
It won't be for naught. Give it time.
Just want to pipe in and say that "something's being worked on" could be anything at this point. What Ed is working on could be related to the MMO or the comics, or even a new series of novels.
Brian James said something about they won't produce a book unless they think it's profitable and I think he is spot on. I really think Hasbro is going for the money this time around and I think the RPG itself is going to get the least attention as well as the least investment. |
| Old Man Harpell |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 16:37:18
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Ed's been writing a ton of material for the post-Spellplague Realms, he wrote the last Realms sourcebook and by all accounts is knee deep in the 5E Realms. It doesn't follow in the least that he has no interest in the gaming side of things.
Sune's Boobs...I'm agreeing with Jeremy again...
Anyone who remembers (and I am sure Jeremy will back me up here), few were as negative on the 4th Edition Realms ("Shattered Realms" was the term I borrowed and used constantly) as I was. It took truly Herculean patience and more than likely several fits of exasperation on the part of Diffan and a couple of others to point out where things could be not only salvaged, but viable (that and the Neverwinter materials). When James Wyatt admitted that Realms 4th had 'gone off the rails', I didn't feel the expected 'I told you so' vindication, but even though that did distantly occur to me in the intellectual sense, my first thought on reading the scroll in question (I believe it was Aldrick who started it?) was 'they're actually going to do something about it!'
I won't try to speculate on RAS's role from this point forward (I avoid most forms of social media), but Wooly's correspondence with Ed indicates that there is something in the pipe. Ed would not, put plainly, ever lie to us. If there is not, in fact, game-related material planned, such as a FRCG, it's because he's been lied to first, and they simply haven't had the courage to tell him. And I just don't see them pulling that kind of brazenly stupid stunt - it would alienate far too many people, Ed among them, and they have to be aware of that.
For all of them pushing their 'you can run this adventure anywhere' schtick, it's obvious (not least in the Tiamat adventure duology) that the Realms is where it defaults to. Giving a solid foundation for more of these adventures is not only in their best interests financially, it means they can also use it to make references in the adventures that follow ("to reference X on Y, refer to the FRCG, page 201"). So for a more complete idea of how to use X in the campaign, why, that FRCG is the exact ticket, the central clearinghouse for All Things post-Sundering. Will that be cash or Mastercard?
I will wait. I think there's good reason to be optimistic. I've been wrong before, but I don't think this is one of those times. I think they're aware of just how upset a lot of us were the last time around, and one thing they're desperate to avoid is alienating not only hidebound antediluvians like I am, but many of those who came later who similarly couldn't see the point of Realms 4th, and wouldn't take kindly to another poke in the eye.
It won't be for naught. Give it time.
- OMH |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 14:38:25
quote:
Originally posted by Swordsage
Call me cynical - many do - but's my take is that Salvatore's "fix" for the Realms extended only as far as agitating for a situation (i.e. the Sundering) where he could re-establish his cast of novel characters.
I'm going to express doubts, as a habitual advocatus diaboli and vocal un-fan of Salvatore's
While you have a good point and sequel capacity is an advantage...
In itself isn't even an unquestionable boon, especially when the writer in question knows much better than most how he may end up with "an albatross", having to churn out sequels not just until the premise is sucked dry, but ad nauseam and beyond.
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
Yes, because the incessant whining has no negative effect at all.
I blame the evil mirror for making me look fat.
Whining does have effect, indeed. IIRC, somewhere around here was a mini-review concluding that FR v.4 was built via catering to the reasons some folk hate Realms rather than the reasons some folk love Realms.
Of course, this won't have any effect at all, if not the strange choice of those who did the catering.
I, for the sake of argument, assume here that said "whining" genuinely exists rather is what's commonly known as "astroturfing" in the first place. Even though things like strangely widespread attempts to blame Ed for "Spellfire" again and again and everywhere occasionally make me wonder. |
| Baptor |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 07:09:42
quote:
Originally posted by hobbitfan
I haven't read or seen anything said/done by fans that even approaches the level of harm done to the D&D game, community and FR setting as that of 4E.
I also don't see the "constant bile" or "incessant whining" that Tanthalas is talking about above but I'm not a daily poster so maybe I missed soemthing?
Just so I'm not misunderstood. I don't think 4e "ruined" FR or even D&D, but derailed both. (In fact, James Wyatt literally described it as such.)
4e was an incredible game that was not D&D. Spellplague Realms was an incredible Campaign Setting that was not the Realms. If either or both had been marketed as anything but what they had been, it might have all worked out well.
But WotC betrayed the notion of "additive design." Instead of adding more options they deleted all the old options and replaced them with the new ones, which was only good if you loved the new ones.
Their entire strategy and marketing betrayed this mindset. They summoned the FR authors to a meeting where they told them what would happen. They made videos basically telling old gamers to suck it up and switch to the new order of things.
Not nice!
But not the end either. Most of us kept on playing other iterations of the game and the Realms. I actually went on with the Spellplague but we did not use 4e rules.
Now they are going to "fix it." Well IMHO they did a great job fixing the D&D rules. Now all they need to do is fix my Realms and I will be happy.
I had lots of stories and characters in the old Realms too. But I've come to realize after awhile we were all starting to worship them just a bit too much. Moving 100 years and getting a fresh start was nice (the blowing up the Realms not so much though).
There is this guy who said in his Realms none of the uber iconics really exist, but are fairy tales told to children. Maybe there really was a Drizzt Do Urden at one time, but if so he's dead now. I like that idea. YMMV. Power to my players. |
| hobbitfan |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 06:07:07
I haven't read or seen anything said/done by fans that even approaches the level of harm done to the D&D game, community and FR setting as that of 4E.
I also don't see the "constant bile" or "incessant whining" that Tanthalas is talking about above but I'm not a daily poster so maybe I missed soemthing?
|
| Tanthalas |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 01:10:17
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I'm not sure what's hurting the Realms more, the lack of content being released or the constant bile being thrown around by "fans".
I'm not sure what's hurting the Realms more, the lack of content being released or the sort of content that was actually released.
No, wait. I am pretty sure. 
Yes, because the incessant whining has no negative effect at all. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 00:55:51
Points over at the Chamber of Sages board on these forums and the Ask Ed Greenwood thread inside of that forum. :)
quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
OK. Anyone know how to get in touch with him?
|
| Baptor |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 00:34:31
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Ed's been writing a ton of material for the post-Spellplague Realms, he wrote the last Realms sourcebook and by all accounts is knee deep in the 5E Realms. It doesn't follow in the least that he has no interest in the gaming side of things.
OK. Anyone know how to get in touch with him? |
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