| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| BEAST |
Posted - 14 Nov 2014 : 22:50:26
I'm discussing this very issue over on RAS's message boards, and I don't know the answer.
In early D&D core resourcebooks, drow of level 4 and above could levitate once per day.
When Bob brought the drow into the 1E Realms with "The Icewind Dale Trilogy", Drizzt had no levitation ability.
As TSR began looking toward 2E, Bob released his "The Dark Elf Trilogy", and here, he wrote that drow nobles had the ability to levitate once per day. And house emblems could imbue an unlimited ability to levitate. But Drizzt lost his emblem in Exile, and in Sojourn he lost his ability to levitate altogether.
When 3E Realms first came out in 2001, levitate was no longer listed as an innate drow ability. This made it seem like the ability had been lost.
However, in MAR-2003, Player's Guide to Faerūn confirmed that drow nobles retained the ability to levitate.
This brings me to 4E, in which I can find nary a mention of innate drow levitation (of nobles, or otherwise), once again. This would seem to indicate that drow nobles can no longer levitate as an innate ability, anymore.
But the situation with 3E gives pause regarding that kind of conclusion. Maybe it was just an oversight with 4E, and we are still lacking an official confirmation or verification, all over again? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 18 Nov 2014 : 23:51:56
Indeed. If a human noble rides in a couch (or on a horse, or on a train), this doesn't mean human nobles cannot walk.  |
| BEAST |
Posted - 18 Nov 2014 : 23:02:37
quote:
Originally posted by Sylrae
I meant that they're nobles, but they relied on magic items for levitation, and didn't have it innately.
Yeah, there is certainly lots of talk about emblems whenever they levitate.
However, that is not all that there is talk of:
quote:
Only drow would make homes out of fragile stone spears a thousand feet above the cavern floor. Highborn dark elves frequently possessed innate magic or enchanted trinkets that freed them of concern over heights, and gave little thought to dizzying overlooks that would terrify bats. Their slaves and servants were not so fortunate, and must have found life in a ceiling spire something peculiarly nerve-racking. (bold added; Condemnation, C3)
That says innate "or" emblem. It doesn't say "and".
So there is always that. True, it ain't much, but it's something.
And then of course there is always still the "Highborn Drow" feat from Races of Faerūn, mentioned earlier.
I made up this little chart tracking the drow levitate ability across the editions:
D&D / AD&D core: Drow of level 4+ can levitate 1/day.
FR 1E: Drow nobles can levitate 1/day; plus some emblems allow unlimited levitate.
FR 2E: Drow nobles can levitate 1/day, plus one more instance per day for every decade of life (so a 500-year-old drow can levitate 50 times/day); plus some emblems allow unlimited levitate.
Early FR 3E: There is no mention of levitate as a racial SLA; but some emblems allow unlimited levitate.
Late FR 3E: Drow nobles can levitate 1/day; plus some emblems allow unlimited levitate.
FR 4E: There is no mention of levitate as a racial SLA; but some emblems allow unlimited levitate.
D&D 5E: Advanced drow can levitate 1/day. |
| Sylrae |
Posted - 18 Nov 2014 : 21:43:25
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Aye, the emblems have always been in play. Can't nobody mess with drow bling! 
I meant that they're nobles, but they relied on magic items for levitation, and didn't have it innately. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 18 Nov 2014 : 19:10:20
quote:
Originally posted by Sylrae
Interestingly, I distinctly remember in WotSQ (1372DR/3e), several high level drow nobles had to use their house-broaches in order to levitate. I think I saw the same in Starlight and Shadows (1369/2e) and in Lady Penitent (1378) though I am less confident about the latter two.
Aye, the emblems have always been in play. Can't nobody mess with drow bling! |
| Sylrae |
Posted - 18 Nov 2014 : 18:39:30
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Q: Did drow nobles lose levitate as a racial SLA in 4E?
There is no mention of it in 4E resource materials.
quote:
There was also no mention of it in early 3E resource materials, either. RAS continued to write his novels with those racial abilities, and so, later 3E and 3.5E resource materials confirmed that drow nobles still possessed levitate as a racial and status SLA.
Interestingly, I distinctly remember in WotSQ (1372DR/3e), several high level drow nobles had to use their house-broaches in order to levitate. I think I saw the same in Starlight and Shadows (1369/2e) and in Lady Penitent (1378) though I am less confident about the latter two.
It is interesting to note that in 3e Drow lost deeper darkness and had regular darkness instead (which does nothing against people with darkvision). |
| BEAST |
Posted - 18 Nov 2014 : 17:15:43
quote:
Originally posted by Magor
Beast, this may seem odd, but can you frame a proper question concerning drow SLA which best captures what you want us to find an answer to? Although I've read both pages here, I have difficulties to grasp exactly what we are trying to accomplish.
I thought I made it clear in my OP.
Q: Did drow nobles lose levitate as a racial SLA in 4E?
There is no mention of it in 4E resource materials.
But there was also no mention of it in early 3E resource materials, either. RAS continued to write his novels with those racial abilities, and so, later 3E and 3.5E resource materials confirmed that drow nobles still possessed levitate as a racial and status SLA.
So the fact that 4E resource materials did not mention it doesn't necessarily rule it out. It could've just been an oversight, rather than an intentional slight.
Other scribes have said that 5E has reinstated the levitate SLA for higher-level drow.
So this makes 4E the odd man out, so to speak. |
| Magor |
Posted - 17 Nov 2014 : 13:55:10
Beast, this may seem odd, but can you frame a proper question concerning drow SLA which best captures what you want us to find an answer to? Although I've read both pages here, I have difficulties to grasp exactly what we are trying to accomplish. |
| Sylrae |
Posted - 17 Nov 2014 : 08:58:58
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Sylrae
Plus, drow magic items, as a general rule in 3.x, stick around just fine in daylight. And that leads me to the notion that magic items created by drow after 1369 are also affected by the events of the Starlight and Shadows series.
Do you have a source for 3.5 drow items being all right? Not a challenge--just a request.
Nah, I'm using the same sources you are. They say that "drowcraft" items aren't really made much anymore, as opposed to 2e when that was all drow magic items. It's a pretty sudden change to happen within the 3 year gap from Liriel's story and 3e, and I am inferring cause as an explanation.
3e doesn't ever explicitly mention that drow SLAs used to go away in the sun.
Interesting that Drizzt retains his darkness and faerie fire. If he didn't learn replacement SLAs or actual magic to replace them, I'm curious why they didn't go away. My understanding of 2e drow was that they lose all their SLAs in sunlight; and that the surface drow of Cormanthor no longer had any of those abilities. |
| Sylrae |
Posted - 17 Nov 2014 : 08:53:20
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Did 3E eliminate the recharging rules too? Or just the solar damage rules? This is a pretty important distinction.
In 3e, Drow SLAs "recharge" any time they rest.
quote:
Are these 3E rules actually rules of solar damage, or only rules of faerzress depletion over time?
Sort of both?
quote:
From the FR Sourcebook Underdark
Drowcraft: Drowcraft weapons were once quite common, but they have fallen out of favor in some drow cities. A drowcraft weapon is energized by local earth nodes and the surrounding aura of faerzress. As long as it remains within an earth node or a zone of faerzress, it grants its wielder a +2 luck bonus on attack and damage rolls, in addition to its normal enhancement bonus. Outside a faerzress zone (for example, aboveground), the weapon does not grant the luck bonuses, but it otherwise works normally.
A drowcraft weapon exposed to sunlight must make a DC 8 Fort save or dissolve utterly. A new save at the same DC is required for each day of exposure. Sheathed weapons or weapons exposed to indirect light (such as indoors) are still vulnerable to this effect, but a drowcraft weapon can be kept safe indefinitely inside a lead-lined case. A drowcraft weapon treated with darkoil
(see Special Items, above) is immune to the effects of sunlight.
It grants a luck bonus so long as you're in range of Faerzress. If you leave that range, the luck bonus is gone immediately.
And disintegrating in sunlight is presented as a feature, rather than a drawback of it's creation. As in "if surface dwellers steal them,they will disintegrate! Ha!" |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 17 Nov 2014 : 05:35:49
In the 2e Drow of the Underdark sourcebook is specifically states that drow gain increased uses of their SLAs as they age...to the extent that truly old drow effectively have unlimited use of them. But that was 2e. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 17 Nov 2014 : 05:00:45
quote:
Originally posted by Sylrae
Plus, drow magic items, as a general rule in 3.x, stick around just fine in daylight. And that leads me to the notion that magic items created by drow after 1369 are also affected by the events of the Starlight and Shadows series.
Do you have a source for 3.5 drow items being all right? Not a challenge--just a request.
I found 2003's Underdark which references drowcraft items as still being photosensitive and prone to utterly dissolving, as well as needing to be close to faerzress deposits in order to display their magical traits.
I also found 2007's core Drow of the Underdark which says that drow have felt inconvenienced by time limits placed on their surface raids.
Both sources agree that drowcraft items had become unpopular at that point in the timeline. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 17 Nov 2014 : 04:34:36
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
I've seen this topic rise before. Why does it have to be just sunlight that's the culprit destroying Drow magic? If it's a single source, it makes no sense for the Drow, who do venture to the surface, to craft magic items for a surface raid.
Drow loved to perform nighttime raids on surface communities back in the day. They had no problem with fresh air. It definitely was something specifically in the sunlight which gave them the heebie-jeebies.
quote:
What if it's a combination of things, including sunlight? Maybe sunlight by itself isn't enough, maybe fresh air - as opposed to the slower moving air of the Underdark caverns, combined with the reflective properties of the bedrock stones bouncing different types of magical radiations and emanations around, plus sunlight does it?
This way, a mage simply countering one effect might work for awhile, but it's not certain, much like predicting the weather. There are simply too many factors to counter the surface world's effects on Drow magic items, and the Drow and other scholars simply blame the sunlight because it's the most recognizable factor?
I'm with you there, but on more than just the grounds of what happens to their magic. Drow leaders manipulated their people to avoid the surface for a lot of different reasons. Part of it was because their magic went wonky, but that was not the only reason. Conflict arose whenever drow went up top, and as much as drow glorify death and mayhem and all that jazz, a society cannot survive if those things are all it knows, all the time. So drow leaders had to try to instill some types of societal stability, and that meant drawing limits or boundaries on their people's behaviors. Even chaotic races have their rules.
"Don't step into the light, Carol Anne!" might be an extremely oversimplified command, which omits all sorts of other very important advice. But it served a useful purpose, within the overall scheme of government and leadership orchestrated by drow authorities.
|
| BEAST |
Posted - 17 Nov 2014 : 04:23:27
quote:
Originally posted by Sylrae
Wasn't there something in either WotSQ or TLP that said Faerzress isn't just "Magic That Stays" it's also Zress-Faer "Magic of Staying" or some-such, and that it was created using Elven high magic to help draw the Drow underground?
I believe that's what I've heard.
But that only sounds like a tale of magical origin.
Once magic instituted the Curse and created the rocks that give off the radiation/energy/emanations/etc., though, it could be said to be naturally occurring.
If a god created the universe and all that is in it, the universe had a supernatural or magical origin. But that doesn't change the fact that what exists in it now is naturally occuring. Magically originating and naturally occurring are not necessarily contradictory or exclusive.
quote:
Well, Liriel Baenre did exactly that (it was a major plot point), because she didn't want to lose her magic on the surface - which always hinted to me that perhaps drow wizardry may also be Faerzress-based.
What did she do, exactly?
1. Did she protect drow magic from being damaged from the sun?
2. And/or did she protect drow magic from ever depleting and needing to be replenished?
My understanding is that she did #1, but not #2. (Man, that sounds so bad!  )
But it is also my understanding that faerzress is a type of radiating energy, which means that something in the source stone matter is converted to or broken down into an energy form and released into the ambient environment. This means that the source matter changes over time, and eventually loses its ability to give off any more such energy. Also, whatever absorbs this energy only retains it for so long, before it eventually re-radiates or changes into some other form, as well, so items which have absorbed the energy must be re-energized occasionally.
Did 3E eliminate the recharging rules too? Or just the solar damage rules? This is a pretty important distinction.
quote:
Of course, post tangled Windwalker, Innate Drow magic and Drow wizardry work fine on the surface. I imagine the reason there is still degrading equipment rules in 3e is that the old stuff which was made before 1368 or 1369 when Windwalker takes place doesn't benefit from Lolth's manipulation of the windwalker and the world tree through Liriel.
Are these 3E rules actually rules of solar damage, or only rules of faerzress depletion over time? |
| BEAST |
Posted - 17 Nov 2014 : 04:08:07
quote:
Originally posted by Sylrae
My interpretation of this was that before 3e, a drow who spent too long on the surface during the day lost all of their magic; including darkness and faerie fire.
Drizzt lost both his magical items and his higher innate SLA of levitation in Sojourn. However, oddly enough, he did not lose globe of darkness or faerie fire.
Some have hypothesized that Montolio taught Drizzt substitute ranger SLAs instead, which closely mimic lower-level drow SLAs. If so, then those would not be sensitive to sunlight.
quote:
Though I'm sure I've seen Drow in the books (from the 2e period SND the 3e period) do these things more than 1/day.
The only ones I've seen do it repeatedly had emblems.
I don't really know what good a once-per-day ability would be, anyway. What goes up must come back down, right? 
So maybe the fine print on the once-per-day rule is that it is actually good for one round trip up and back down per day. 
But still, even that seems awfully limited... |
| BEAST |
Posted - 17 Nov 2014 : 03:59:28
quote:
Originally posted by SaMoCon
UV? In a high magic setting like Forgotten Realms, with convenient back stories full of "hand-wavium" like the High Magic curse backed by the most powerful elven deity to send the drow away from the light, and even the light of Toril's sun being a direct power and representation of the sun god(s), you're going to say Ultra Violet Light is the culprit? Um... okay... wouldn't that be just a 2nd level spell for a wizard to research and create an item that would degrade and then blank drow abilities and items? Wouldn't be any different in requirements for casting light.
Q: is arcanely-fabricated *stuff* (ultraviolet energy or otherwise) really the exact same as the wholly natural variety? Or is like synthetized goods and materials, which are really close approximations, but not quite the same?
If there is a slightest difference, then that might explain why drow don't fear quasi-UV light spells.
quote:
If it were me I would tie the reason back to the curse and the divine light of the sun being the relationship of cause/effect of drowic loss in light.
That sounds cool, too. I haven't read "TLP", either, so I'm not too familiar with how that works.
quote:
At the very least it prevents player shenanigans with science... unless that is the type of game you are aiming for. Otherwise, I don't think there is a need to be so specific.
But doesn't it just open the door to shenanigans with "magic", instead? You're just substituting one complicated mess with another one, aren't you? |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 19:57:07
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
This might just be me, but I always assumed faerzress magic was a different form of magic, much like Table Magic, or Gemstone Magic.
It's obviously a subtype of quasimagic (i.e. use of magical secondary power sources, like Netherese toys, personal mythal attunement, etc) and was called such in some official lore.
quote:
And the funny thing is, none of these have really been developed. Gemstone magic has been a bit, through Volo's guide and some in I believe 3E where you can plant spells in gems, but other than that nothing.
It's more of a nerf of focal stone from VGtATM. 
quote:
Drow were supposed to be very powerful in magic and had perhaps found some fell analog to High Magic
Because everything should have a Counterpart(TM)?
Drow have their own ways. Radiation quasimagic, personal enchantments, artifice... if you have develop on these, there are ways. Further developments in radiation SLA/infusion (this was used in "Drow of the Underdark"-3.5, but in a rather clunky fashion), for example. If you want to go extreme - this can be done, too.
quote:
and I assume this is all tied to faerzress. So is it a replacement system or more of an enhancement to Weave based spells.
I asked about how much radiation magic is part of the Weave (there are obvious situations when this matters), but no answer yet.
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
The stones are ground up into foodstuff-grade minerals. Think salt and pepper--not rocks. Sprinkle some faerzress-laced granules on your shrooms and rothé burger.
Pepper is very soft. Salt is very soluble in water, which is why normally consuming it does not involve chewing on crystals. So... adamantine teeth, then? 
quote:
No specific source. [...] That was an interpretation of the older materials, which said that drow magic and magical items were degraded by exposure to sunlight. So there's got to be some sort of component of solar light that messes up drow magic. Clearly, it ain't visible light or infrared, as even drow conventional life underground is full of those. So it has to be something else.
Since we already know that UV rays cause lots of problems in the real world, UV makes a good candidate for the culprit.
So... vampires burn in UV, too? (I won't even bother to joke about it, as that one was done to death and more)
quote:
That brings up another thought. You know how back in the day, "gamma rays" were the token explanation for lots of superheroes' super powers? What if faerzress is a low dose of gamma radiation?
You so don't want me to run away with this one... No, wait, something like that also was done - in Mystara. Oh, well.
quote:
Does anybody know if gamma and UV interfere with each other, IRL?
IRL it's nonsensical (exactly how?). In the ads-coated labyrinths of American Science(TM) - maybe is likely to start soon. Aristotlean mechanics already moved in, after all.  |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 18:19:55
In Homeland, it was noted that drow magic went wonky when on the surface. The Academy even banned wizards from going with on raids, though some suspected the "accident" was just an attempt to kill some rivals. Liriel believed, right or wrong that her magic would burn away with the sun.
It's possible that drow spellcasting was attuned to the faerzress, that without its influence magic would sometimes go wild. Drizzt always claimed (right or wrong) that the magic of his people outstripped anything he ever saw on the surface. The easiest though overpowered option is to have no level caps on spells, much like Pre-ToT spells or just to raise them a few levels. 15d6 fireballs etc.
At any rate, if they are so powerful, this type of magic issue they have is a good reason to keep them bottled up in their holes. I'd be curious to know how House Dhuurniv and the drow from old school Shadowdale overcame or dealt with this issue.
Liriel effectively cast something on par with High Magic, so you may be right that Lolth had her hand in that. Prepping the drow for their later invasions that we saw with Rise of the Underdark or some such and her bid on Mystra's domain. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 16:39:12
I think you forgot the drowithids, Drow were-dragons, and the sea Drow.
But yeah, I see your point. I loved that series, but I found it very confusing. Her motivations were... odd. My best guess is that Lolth was manipulating her the whole time (and we see that she was), and that she never really needed to do what she did - that just helped other drow reach the surface and end their dependency on Faerzress.
What if... Elven Magic was originally ALL 'High Magic'? In other words, it was a blend of clerical and arcane magics sponsored by the Seldarine, and therefor needed their 'input' to function properly? We are talking about 11,000+ years ago - I am sure Elven magic was quite different back then. Thus, post-descent, Lolth would have had to have found another alternative for her people to still use magic, since the Seldarine were no longer responding to them. Maybe I got it wrong - maybe instead of 'chaos energy', the Faersrezz nodes are actually a cyst leading to the lower planes? That would account for why Auraushnee went there - she needed another power source.
Then fast-forward 11,000+ years and we have the Weave and Arcane Magic... and yes, that may have been there in some form back then, but who's to say the elves were using it? They could have adapted to 'human methods' of casting during their interaction with the Netherese (and the Nether scrolls). Now the elves no longer need 'Seldarine approval' for normal levels of magic, so why not the drow? I think all the Windwalker may have done is break the link Lolth established with faerzress nodes and liked them to the weave, instead.
And that could also help lend credence to why she wanted to create her own Weave (the Demon Weave) and become the goddess of magic (in direct opposition to Corellon, who's position as said deity has been waning since the Elves have found 'newer methods').
Just supposition, is all. More to think about and all that.  |
| Sylrae |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 15:56:53
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Drow items, however, should still be affected as they always were - the Rune Magic she used (I am still confused by all of that) should have only worked on the people: the powers are now truly 'innate' (no longer require Faerzress, which is why the bastiches are running around all over the surface these days).
Well, tbh, if your argument is correct, I'm not sure why Liriel would have even been motivated to do the quest with the Windwalker. She was an accomplished wizard. Anything she could do as an SLA she could also do as a spell; and yet she frequently mentions that she "Needs" the windwalker because her magic is such an important part of her identity. The magic she uses in the book is almost exclusively wizardry rather than racial SLAs, honestly I'm not sure if she EVER uses her SLAs.
Which makes me think that Drow sorcery was intended to be the point there, not just the SLAs. Plus, drow magic items, as a general rule in 3.x, stick around just fine in daylight. And that leads me to the notion that magic items created by drow after 1369 are also affected by the events of the Starlight and Shadows series.
I do, however, find it amusing/interesting just how fractured the Drow race in Faerun is.
You have:
Crinti: Drow-Human Hybrids.
Drow Half-Elves: Drow-Elf Hybrids.
Drow: Stock Drow.
Noble Drow: Stock Drow plus more SLAs gained through feats(iffy on how this fits into the stories; only seems to exist in the RPG books).
Surface Drow: Drow who were on the surface prior to Starlight & Shadows, and therefore have no racial SLAs.
Lesser Drow: Drow with crappier stats & SLAs (players guide to Faerun).
Driders: Drow-Spider Hybrids, created by Lolth.
Draegloth: Drow-Demon (traditionally Glabrezu) hybids.
Dark-Elves: Dark Skinned elves (re)created in 1378 by a cabal of Drow high-mages, with assistance from Eilistraee. Never formally statted out, presumably very similar to Sun/Moon elves. |
| Delwa |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 15:46:35
I've seen this topic rise before. Why does it have to be just sunlight that's the culprit destroying Drow magic? If it's a single source, it makes no sense for the Drow, who do venture to the surface, to craft magic items for a surface raid. What if it's a combination of things, including sunlight? Maybe sunlight by itself isn't enough, maybe fresh air - as opposed to the slower moving air of the Underdark caverns, combined with the reflective properties of the bedrock stones bouncing different types of magical radiations and emanations around, plus sunlight does it?
This way, a mage simply countering one effect might work for awhile, but it's not certain, much like predicting the weather. There are simply too many factors to counter the surface world's effects on Drow magic items, and the Drow and other scholars simply blame the sunlight because it's the most recognizable factor? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 15:00:20
The write-up for Drow in the 2e Monstrous manual (best Monster book EVA!) said that Drow items (and magic) were 'psuedo-magical', in much the same way the Netherese magic was. Thus, a Faerzress Node provided the power in much the same way a Mythalar does.
I personally thought that was THE BEST take on it. Then Liriel came along and screwed everything up with here 'windwaker' (or whatever that artifact was called). So Elaine explained-away why Drow can now use their powers on the surface (something RAS should have done, but didn't bother). Drow items, however, should still be affected as they always were - the Rune Magic she used (I am still confused by all of that) should have only worked on the people: the powers are now truly 'innate' (no longer require Faerzress, which is why the bastiches are running around all over the surface these days).
I liken Faerzress nodes to the elemental magic nodes - they are just 'places of power' that tap-into planer energies (the Faerzress perhaps attuning to the plane of pure chaos - Limbo). Then again, I have only 9 planes in MY great Wheel, so its easier for me to think like that. Each plane has its own 'power' that can be tapped. The 'Pools of..." work in similar fashion (including Moonwells), except they can be attuned to a specific godly domain, rather then an entire Plane.
Just how I figure all that working - take it with a grain of salt. |
| Sylrae |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 14:33:20
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertUsually, though, if someone is harmed by the sun, it's the person, not their equipment.
In the case of Drow, it used to be both though, didn't it? Not only would Drow gear lose it's oomph, but Drow innate abilities also used to go away in sunlight.
quote:
Faerzress exists naturally in the Underdark, and it's what gives drow goodies their magic. If faerzress is a naturally-occurring
Wasn't there something in either WotSQ or TLP that said Faerzress isn't just "Magic That Stays" it's also Zress-Faer "Magic of Staying" or some-such, and that it was created using Elven high magic to help draw the Drow underground?
quote:
If faerzress is a naturally-occurring radiation, where is the issue in another naturally-occurring radiation countering it?
Sure, This makes sense to me; clearly *Something* in sunlight is doing it.
quote:
As for researching a counter to it, I don't see that the drow would need one. Why find a way to counter the effects of sunlight when they avoid sunlight in general? I certainly don't reach for the SPF when I'm going to be inside and at work all day.
Well, Liriel Baenre did exactly that (it was a major plot point), because she didn't want to lose her magic on the surface - which always hinted to me that perhaps drow wizardry may also be Faerzress-based.
Of course, post tangled Windwalker, Innate Drow magic and Drow wizardry work fine on the surface. I imagine the reason there is still degrading equipment rules in 3e is that the old stuff which was made before 1368 or 1369 when Windwalker takes place doesn't benefit from Lolth's manipulation of the windwalker and the world tree through Liriel. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 14:04:15
quote:
Originally posted by SaMoCon
UV? In a high magic setting like Forgotten Realms, with convenient back stories full of "hand-wavium" like the High Magic curse backed by the most powerful elven deity to send the drow away from the light, and even the light of Toril's sun being a direct power and representation of the sun god(s), you're going to say Ultra Violet Light is the culprit? Um... okay... wouldn't that be just a 2nd level spell for a wizard to research and create an item that would degrade and then blank drow abilities and items? Wouldn't be any different in requirements for casting light. If it were me I would tie the reason back to the curse and the divine light of the sun being the relationship of cause/effect of drowic loss in light. At the very least it prevents player shenanigans with science... unless that is the type of game you are aiming for. Otherwise, I don't think there is a need to be so specific.
Usually, though, if someone is harmed by the sun, it's the person, not their equipment.
Faerzress exists naturally in the Underdark, and it's what gives drow goodies their magic. If faerzress is a naturally-occurring radiation, where is the issue in another naturally-occurring radiation countering it?
As for researching a counter to it, I don't see that the drow would need one. Why find a way to counter the effects of sunlight when they avoid sunlight in general? I certainly don't reach for the SPF when I'm going to be inside and at work all day. |
| Sylrae |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 13:18:07
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
The Windwalker Amulet was used to carve a sigil in the the World Tree (or something similar to it) and thus was supposed to make drow SLAs work on the surface. This was modified in 3e to require feats to even have the abilities (which I always thought was rather dumb...just let the drow have their abilities...it's not that game breaking IMHO).
My interpretation of this was that before 3e, a drow who spent too long on the surface during the day lost all of their magic; including darkness and faerie fire.
I just assumed the change from "Drow can Levitate" to "Drow from money will have a house insignia that allows them to Levitate".
Though I'm sure I've seen Drow in the books (from the 2e period SND the 3e period) do these things more than 1/day. |
| SaMoCon |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 12:17:18
UV? In a high magic setting like Forgotten Realms, with convenient back stories full of "hand-wavium" like the High Magic curse backed by the most powerful elven deity to send the drow away from the light, and even the light of Toril's sun being a direct power and representation of the sun god(s), you're going to say Ultra Violet Light is the culprit? Um... okay... wouldn't that be just a 2nd level spell for a wizard to research and create an item that would degrade and then blank drow abilities and items? Wouldn't be any different in requirements for casting light. If it were me I would tie the reason back to the curse and the divine light of the sun being the relationship of cause/effect of drowic loss in light. At the very least it prevents player shenanigans with science... unless that is the type of game you are aiming for. Otherwise, I don't think there is a need to be so specific. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 01:43:50
quote:
My assumption has been that faerzress was a form of radiation, and that it was broken down by UV.
THIS along with Beast's speculations on the topic. I agree that UV rays are the most likely culprit though there is no direct statement to this in canon or the rules.
The Windwalker Amulet was used to carve a sigil in the the World Tree (or something similar to it) and thus was supposed to make drow SLAs work on the surface. This was modified in 3e to require feats to even have the abilities (which I always thought was rather dumb...just let the drow have their abilities...it's not that game breaking IMHO). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 01:04:39
My assumption has been that faerzress was a form of radiation, and that it was broken down by UV. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 15 Nov 2014 : 23:06:32
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
They have gizzards?
No. They don't need gizzards. The stones are ground up into foodstuff-grade minerals. Think salt and pepper--not rocks. Sprinkle some faerzress-laced granules on your shrooms and rothé burger.
quote:
Source, please? 
No specific source. That was an interpretation of the older materials, which said that drow magic and magical items were degraded by exposure to sunlight. So there's got to be some sort of component of solar light that messes up drow magic. Clearly, it ain't visible light or infrared, as even drow conventional life underground is full of those. So it has to be something else.
Since we already know that UV rays cause lots of problems in the real world, UV makes a good candidate for the culprit.
But I don't have any particular source on that. It's just speculation.
That brings up another thought. You know how back in the day, "gamma rays" were the token explanation for lots of superheroes' super powers? What if faerzress is a low dose of gamma radiation?
Does anybody know if gamma and UV interfere with each other, IRL? It would be so cool if they did, because that would make a perfect explanation for the traditional drow problem with sunlight. |
| Sylrae |
Posted - 15 Nov 2014 : 19:13:53
I do recall Faerzress magic and its effects (such as Drow SLAs) didn't work aftr time spent in the sun; and that that was changed because Liriel Baenre, priestess of Lolth, used a human artifact to keep her drow magic on the surface; an artifact which Lolth took advantage of to make that universal for all drow.
There were mentions of it in Tangled Webs, it referred to drow game mechanics in 2e, and the change was present in 3e. |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 15 Nov 2014 : 19:09:19
This might just be me, but I always assumed faerzress magic was a different form of magic, much like Table Magic, or Gemstone Magic. And the funny thing is, none of these have really been developed. Gemstone magic has been a bit, through Volo's guide and some in I believe 3E where you can plant spells in gems, but other than that nothing.
Drow were supposed to be very powerful in magic and had perhaps found some fell analog to High Magic and I assume this is all tied to faerzress. So is it a replacement system or more of an enhancement to Weave based spells.
I could see diet affecting spell like abilities. I don't recall the context, but I believe Ed has stated drow do require certain foods for proper health or digestion. |
|
|
