| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Therise |
Posted - 10 Aug 2013 : 15:53:13
I want both of these back, in some form.
Perhaps neither was destroyed as originally thought. What if both, at different times, were sucked over to Abeir instead of being destroyed?
No reason to have them utterly destroyed by Spellplague when Abeir is handy and the walls between realities were thinned.
I mean, the only way we know about Tymanther is that it was actually a populated mass of land that was "exchanged"... so what if Lantan and Halruaa were swapped with boring wastelands from Abeir?
And with the sundering, they can now swap right back.
Right? 
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 17 May 2017 : 07:02:25
I do play, but only using my own rules which allow complete customisation of characters, monsters, magic items etc and spells that you can use at any level, and its skill based.
Thats another rules why rules based setting changes irk me so much. I dont use their arbitrary thought out rule systems so i dont need an arbitrarily designed version of the setting to go with it (and nothing is more arbitrary than Ao did it). |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 16 May 2017 : 23:58:31
Yeah, I was originally picturing having the "United Tharchs of the Shaar" instead of the "United Tharchs of Toril" and having them using earthmotes above the Underchasm as small cities for training wizards in isolation. Then I heard they were filling in the Shaar again, and the idea for the "United Tharchs of Toril" took shape. I like the idea that any place that went to Abeir actually comes back with Earthmotes, as long as they can't fly them around like star destroyers. I never got what all the drama was over earthmotes in the first place. It would very much fit in Halruaa, Nimbral, and even Lantan. All 3 cultures may have worked together in Abeir (assuming of course that Nimbral and Lantan went to Abeir, which we don't have a definitive of). Personally, I'd have it that all 3 went there, along with those vast stretches from the serpent kingdoms (Tashalar, Thindol, Lapaliiya, the Mhair Jungle, etc...) that disappeared. Exactly what happened while they were there? I'll leave some of that to other scribes.
Oh, and the area that will probably keep earthmotes intact is Akanul |
| Markustay |
Posted - 16 May 2017 : 22:52:27
***triggered*** LMAO 
The Realms are never going to be what they were. On the FB 5e page I've run into some folks who feel just as strongly about the '5e changes' (or 'roll-back' as some are calling it) as you do about 4e. They think 4eFR was off the chain (or hook, or 'shizzle', or whatever you whippersnappers are saying these days).
I guess 5e FR IS the compromise they were hoping for. I don't think its making anyone 100% happy (except maybe people who are new to FR/D&D as of 5e), but its also not completely disenfranchising one particular group of fans, either. Sorry you feel so strongly Dazzler.
Do you play D&D? maybe you can find a group - people ARE having fun with it, I swear to you. I had fun with the one brief campaign I ran, and I'm thinking about starting another, using the Nentir Vale conversion. Its like the saying goes - sometimes if you love something, you just have to let it go. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 16 May 2017 : 20:04:31
I know, and ive read about the temple in the sky. I even said it was a good idea.
I still hate it though. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 May 2017 : 19:36:58
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
A shattered nation existing on earthmotes above a ravaged and spell infested chasm is a great idea.
BUUTTT its a 4e thing so i hate it.
I was one of the most vocal opponents of the changes wrought to the Realms by 4E, and caught a hell of a lot of flak for it, from some of the more enthusiastic 4E supporters... But I never dismissed anything purely because it was from 4E. I actually liked a couple of the ideas, and felt they could be used in a version of the Realms that ignored the Spellplague.
As Markus pointed out, the Realms has had floating chunks of land in it for a long time - this idea predates Wizards of the Coast, much less 4th Edition and its changes to the setting. They were very rare and weren't lumped under a single collective description, but they did exist. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 16 May 2017 : 15:38:49
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
A shattered nation existing on earthmotes above a ravaged and spell infested chasm is a great idea.
BUUTTT its a 4e thing so i hate it.
Come on. It's not like 4e-era WotC invented floating rocks or spell infested chasms...
Doesnt matter. Its like vegetarianism. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 16 May 2017 : 13:32:52
Not a chasm - a magic-blasted wasteland. Plus, its more of a blending of old and new, not just 4e. The map would look pretty-much like the 1e/2e map, because the settlements would still be in their original positions, just a hundred feet off the ground (give or take). Thats why I've become enamored of this idea - it does the 'restoration' thing the rest of the Realms got as of 5e, but still keeps some of the flavor/evidence of the past century.
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
Anything ruined/destroyed by the Spellplague should be returned to its rightful place in the Realms.
Like I said above, everything would be restored. The map would look the same.
EDIT:
Just found this cool pic of flying cities - could be 'New Halruaa'
Doesn't look dark/Goth enough to be Netherese. LOL |
| Irennan |
Posted - 16 May 2017 : 13:32:47
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
A shattered nation existing on earthmotes above a ravaged and spell infested chasm is a great idea.
BUUTTT its a 4e thing so i hate it.
Come on. It's not like 4e-era WotC invented floating rocks or spell infested chasms... |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 16 May 2017 : 12:40:30
A shattered nation existing on earthmotes above a ravaged and spell infested chasm is a great idea.
BUUTTT its a 4e thing so i hate it. |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 16 May 2017 : 12:35:15
Anything ruined/destroyed by the Spellplague should be returned to its rightful place in the Realms. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 16 May 2017 : 01:10:09
I think the capital should actually be spread across several motes, and have scary bridges between them (Yes, it is sort of like Sarn in Eberron, but only in that regard... maybe).
'Halarahh, the Crumbled City' (of course there will be bad, ruined sections to explore).
On Topic:
And as for Luiren, the tidal waves that devastated the coast wiped-out most of the Hin civilization, but left the more primitive Ghostwise settlements mostly intact. The survivors fled inland, and learned how to survive from their savage cousins. After a time, their numbers grew, and the expanded north into to the Shaar (avoiding resettling the coast, which the feel is cursed/haunted). Interbreeding with the Ghostwise gave all Luiren Hin a small amount of low-level telepathy, which they can use with each other, but they've also managed to use it to dominate and train 'lesser creatures'. They've now become feared for their raptor-riders.
And YEAH, I stole that from Eberron too. This is me kicking Eberron while its down "THUD, WHACK, Die already! We want your stuff!"  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 16 May 2017 : 00:31:00
Ah, okay. My bad. 
I thought that was a 'You can't do that because..." type of thing.
I just think it would make the lack of roads and reliance on airships make more sense now. Besides, now that I've gotten over hating them, "Earthmotes are Kewl".
(and I said that in the voice of Matt Smith, if anyone gets the reference).  |
| Irennan |
Posted - 16 May 2017 : 00:18:05
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yes, and all the powerful characters hid inside 'Blue something objects', or whatever.
I was trying to imagine something beyond the boring 5e explanation of 'its like it used to be'. I don't mind it so much for the Heartlands, because they were always good, but I was hoping they'd at least try to make the rest of Faerūn interesting this time out. Or will this just be another edition where 97% of all FR games will be played in The Heartlands (or worse, just in 'The North' now).
And that explanation still leaves plenty of wiggle-room. My 'they survived on Motes' explanation still works within that framework (its just that they were only able to save much less than most folks realize). In fact, Ed even mentions 'numerous wild Magic Zones'; I think all I did was take it one step further. 
Yes, I find your explanation interesting. Since you said that you're not aware of how 5e brought it back, I was just clarifying. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 16 May 2017 : 00:14:34
Yes, and all the powerful characters hid inside 'Blue something objects', or whatever.
I was trying to imagine something beyond the boring 5e explanation of 'its like it used to be'. I don't mind it so much for the Heartlands, because they were always good, but I was hoping they'd at least try to make the rest of Faerūn interesting this time out. Or will this just be another edition where 97% of all FR games will be played in The Heartlands (or worse, just in 'The North' now).
And that explanation still leaves plenty of wiggle-room. My 'they survived on Motes' explanation still works within that framework (its just that they were only able to save much less than most folks realize). In fact, Ed even mentions 'numerous wild Magic Zones'; I think all I did was take it one step further. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 16 May 2017 : 00:06:46
The canon version is that Halruaans diviners managed to foresee what would happen, and as a collective effort they managed to shift their nation to Abeir. They then came back when Abeir was separated from Toril with the Sundering.
Ed put it in a different way shortly before we got the SCAG : http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19841&whichpage=4#463287
quote:
Posted - 15 Jan 2015 : 22:03:56 Show Profile Email Poster Visit Malcolm's Homepage Send Malcolm a Private Message
Well, as Ed explained it to me at a recent convention, Halruaan magical shields went up, making teleportation and scrying impossible and clouding most divination magic into chaotic uselessness . . . and when the Spellplague hit, many Halruaans died when magic briefly "went wild" and structures collapsed, in-flight effects failed and gravity took over, active magics turned chaotic, and so on. At the same time, many wizards went insane or got brain-burned or were killed when caught in their own spells going chaotic . . . and a lot of the surviving Halruaans assumed the realm was under attack and cast or activated all of their appropriate "rainy day" defenses - - so MORE shields went up, many of them twisted or going wild as time passed . . . so Halruaa was effectively cut off from the rest of Faerūn. And caught in mid-dimensional segueing between Abeir and Toril (and not the entire country as a neat whole unit, but bits and pieces of it in a very localized fashion). Which in turn meant more wild magic and the leakage of other magics from elsewhere through it, and MORE defensive spellcasting, and . . . an increasing "no go zone" from the POV of those nearby in Toril.So it doesn't so much "blink" as it disappears into/behind impenetrable mists of tangled magic (old comics readers, think of all of those weird panels drawn in elder Doctor Strange issues), for a time.
To emerge with many structures devastated (think of many World War II cities after heavy bombing), the populace scattered, weary, and wary . . . and even more determined to be isolationalist.
Have I got it right, THO? Ed?
Answer: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19841&whichpage=6#464546
quote:
Yes, indeed, Wooly.
And I've actually stepped back into the Keep to bring Ed's words in response to this from Irennan: "Oh, so that means that Halruaa actually survived the Spellplague. Well, that's much needed good news. Has all the crazy magic stuff altered Halruaan society, leading people to rely on something else next to magic (especially in the time where the remaining wizards would try to learn to use the new Weave-less magic)? And may we get some hint (probably NDA) on how Halruaa looks now (after -I guess- its people rebuilt what was destroyed), and what has changed with the return of the Weave?" and to MaskedOne's followups. Here's Ed:
Yes, Halruaa survived the Spellplague, and Malcolm relayed what I said very accurately. Yes, all the magical chaos has shattered Halruaan society, in that their "usual ways" and attitudes have been swept away, and every family is questioning their status quo (laws, customs, reliance on magic, assumptions about their place in the world). There was much loss of life, a lot of fear and paranoia, and so as the result of the return of the Weave, a lot of hard work went into variants and "improvements" on the guards and wards spell, placing it permanently in various dwellings (most new Halruaan dwellings look like fortresses, and are readily defensible) and in "rings" around the land (food gardens, ponds, orchards, etc.) immediately surrounding those dwellings. A favorite Halruaan tactic is to have prowling guardian creatures hiding inside thick conjured fogs/mists, so intruders can't see what's approaching and/or watching them. Halruaa no longer has any formal contact with the outside world, so many folk elsewhere in Faerūn may think it is a fallen, abandoned land. And it does have numerous wild magic "zones" along its borders, moved and kept there by the strongest surviving Halruaan spellcasters, as a deterrent to outsiders. Right now, Halruaa is definitely in "leave us alone, nothing to see here, so move along, right away" mode.
So saith Ed. Imparting Realmslore whenever he can.
love to all,
THO
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| Markustay |
Posted - 15 May 2017 : 21:28:26
***Rezzy Rez Rezzzzzzzzz...***
A little threadomancy: I was labeling the rivers of Halruaa in a map I was working on, and of course I was thinking about Halruaa, and what it might be like. Now, it just so happens I was thinking about 4e last night as I was going to sleep, and thinking about the "things I'd miss" (believe it or not, there are a couple). One thing I absolutely hated at the beginning of 4e but grew on me as time passed were earth-motes. part of that was mostly because as I read through older lore, Ed actually had quite a few 'flying thingies' all about the place (settlements, towers, castles, etc., and YES, even plain ol' chunks of floating rock/earth). So I was thinking that maybe there are a bunch of them left (I think someone mentioned there might be, but I can't even recall what it was in reference to).
So here I am, looking at 'old Halruaa' (the map is circa 3e), and I was thinking about how the land itself supposedly exploded as was gone (NOT 'disappeared to Abeir' - it was vaporized), and how its probably back, perfectly intact in 5e (like so much else they're just glossing over). Now, having all (or most) of those settlements back is okay, and even having the people themselves being very much the same as they used to be (a bit far-fetched, but HEY, I'm not the professional designer, am I right?) is I guess alright. But the land was DESTROYED, and I'd rather they kept some changes to FR from the 4e era than just pretend it never happened (WORST version of a reboot EVA).
So how about this? The land IS pretty much still destroyed. Or at least, maybe parts of it came back buts its 'contaminated' (think The Mournland of Eberron). I think I'd like some magical chaos rather than plain vanilla Halruaa back, and here's the thing - I think it might make even more sense than previous versions, and here's why: Roads. There weren't any. Ever. I even asked Ed, and hated that. Even with his expanations I still wasn't happen with an entire nation without a single road anywhere. So now, what if we put all those settlements back in 5e... on Earthmotes?
Basically, a handful of spread-out settlements on floating chunks of rock (the parts that were shifted with the towns 'elsewhere' when the country was destroyed), and just a ravaged wasteland below. Now not only does the 'no roads' thing make even more sense (and everyone gets around by flying ship, as it was meant to be anyway), Buuuuuut... the earthmotes actually make more sense here than anywhere else (because supposedly those settlements were shunted elsewhere in sme sort of contingency magic, and would have taken some of the surrounding terrain with them). The Halruaans might even be happier this way - their country is even more 'isolated' than before.
Whats everyone else's thoughts on this? Or would that make 'New Halruaa' a bit too much like old Netheril (Netheril combined with the Mournland, actually)? |
| Venger |
Posted - 12 Aug 2013 : 22:14:44
quote:
If you ask nicely, maybe. 
Imitating the "I can has cheezburgr" cats wasn't nice enough?
But yeah, I miss Luiren. I used to run a campaign in the Shaar, and I liked everything about it, from Luiren to the Great Rift. It was so disappointing to see even a region that innocuous get smashed up in the 4E changeover. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 12 Aug 2013 : 21:21:50
Man I forgot about Luiren (sorry to all the hin folk out there). Ya it needs to come back with some love of its own. |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 12 Aug 2013 : 20:26:55
If you ask nicely, maybe. |
| Venger |
Posted - 12 Aug 2013 : 20:21:01
I can has Luiren back, too? |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 12 Aug 2013 : 19:58:20
Hmm, given that Zalathorm was a diviner, perhaps he saw the Spellplague coming and was able to evacuate some of his people (either by going to another land, such as Maztica, or by slipping into some demiplane for awhile...I prefer the demiplane or similar idea as Maztica is just too far away for my tastes). Having spent a century away, the Halruaan survivors are now ready to return, albeit fewer in number. I would assume that they scryed upon their homeland and developed a plan. I like the idea of Halruaa having several nice landmotes left behind (given all of the Spellplague shenanigans that took place there) for them to inhabit while they work on restoring the land below and shoring up defenses for the surrounding mountain ranges. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 12 Aug 2013 : 18:39:57
Actually, IF they bring back Maztica, that makes a perfect place for Lantan and Halruaa to have possibly evacuated to. I've posited some of these ideas previously for using Maztica, but with time the ideas can become more refined. The Lantanese may have enlightened the indigenous population in the past century and you have something akin to a "Swiss Family Robinson" culture brewing over in Maztica where they're trying to rebuild the mechano-magical culture that they previously had. Maybe they join up with Amnish people already in Maztica... or maybe they work against them because the Amnish don't want to work with the local natives.
Halruaa too may have relocated to Maztica, but maybe they've embraced their "Netherese roots". Maybe they've moved to landmotes in the air to protect themselves from the wild savages below, using their skyships to travel between motes. Perhaps they've joined up with some displaced Thayan enclaves as well... or maybe how the red wizards originated in Halruaa sees a revival and there's a section of Halruaans who start taking slaves from the Maztican population and who believe strongly in keeping their bloodlines pure (though these people have not a speck of Mulan blood... nothing says racists are tied to a single race of humans). Essentially, Halruaa was "a far off land, full of magic and defended by its natural barriers, full of small villages that work together for mutual survival". Nothing says it has to remain at the bottom of the Faerunian map.... nor that they must remain earthbound. Maybe they've also learned from their ancestors, and as a result, they've actually built some kind of infrastructure from their landmotes to nearby mountains, etc... not enough to keep them in the air forever, but enough that if magic were to fail, a large amount of the population could get to skyships, flying mounts, parachutes, hang gliders, etc..... to escape). |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 12 Aug 2013 : 08:15:26
<_< sorta wanta, just a little bit of warforged in lantan |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 12 Aug 2013 : 05:58:10
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Still have more posts than you!
<voice of Dr. Claw> Blast you, Mournblade! Someday I will overtake you. Someday! </voice>
In the meantime, I'm curious: did the people of Lantan ever experiment with Time Travel? If yes, maybe that's an out for them in terms of avoiding Lantan's destruction. |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 12 Aug 2013 : 04:45:31
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Here is what I'd do. The people of Halaruaa weren't killed for the most part of the Spellplague, rather they were transformed into pure spell energy. With the removal of the spell plague they are restored to flesh and blood. They remember what it was like to be pure magical energy and a minority secretly conspire to return to that state of being.
This is pretty awesome.
Perhaps in this way the Halruaan's became caretakers of the Weave, protecting a portion of it before the Spellplague could destroy it.
Still have more posts than you!
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| Mournblade |
Posted - 12 Aug 2013 : 04:40:47
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Halruaa YES, but with some more focus on it, and perhaps somehow bring it closer to the 'center of things' (not IN the center - just outside the main campaign area). The only thing I really didn't like about it before was the distance.
As for Lantan, I could take it or leave it. If they actually DO something with it this time out, then fine. But 'same old Lantan' = 'dull as dirt' to me. Don't include stuff you never plan to flesh-out.
I have to strongly disagree here. This was the faulty logic they used with getting rid of Mulhorrand and Unther.
Forgotten Realms is also a campaign setting for players to develop. (I am not preaching this to you marcus) A mere mention of Lantan with geographic features is acceptable and a player or DM can run with it.
One of the parts of the realms I truly made my own was Damara. It was very well fleshed out in the bloodstone lands supplement, but rarely touched otherwise. I think the realms need an area well developed (Like Waterdeep and the Dales) Medium development (I guess like Sembia) and low development (Damara, moonshaes, lantan)
I think it would even be good to make a place, say the bloodstone lands, "off limits" to writers of novels and developers, much like Sembia was supposed to be. That way a DM can participate in the WHOLE of the realms with a tiny niche that is theirs, and will not be disturbed.
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| Therise |
Posted - 12 Aug 2013 : 04:30:49
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Here is what I'd do. The people of Halaruaa weren't killed for the most part of the Spellplague, rather they were transformed into pure spell energy. With the removal of the spell plague they are restored to flesh and blood. They remember what it was like to be pur magical energy and a minority secretly conspire to return to that state of being.
No thanks. Too wonky.
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| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 12 Aug 2013 : 04:15:42
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Here is what I'd do. The people of Halaruaa weren't killed for the most part of the Spellplague, rather they were transformed into pure spell energy. With the removal of the spell plague they are restored to flesh and blood. They remember what it was like to be pure magical energy and a minority secretly conspire to return to that state of being.
This is pretty awesome.
Perhaps in this way the Halruaan's became caretakers of the Weave, protecting a portion of it before the Spellplague could destroy it. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 12 Aug 2013 : 03:38:09
Halruua yes, Lantan no.
bring back Lurien
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| Gyor |
Posted - 11 Aug 2013 : 16:37:07
Here is what I'd do. The people of Halaruaa weren't killed for the most part of the Spellplague, rather they were transformed into pure spell energy. With the removal of the spell plague they are restored to flesh and blood. They remember what it was like to be pur magical energy and a minority secretly conspire to return to that state of being.
Lantan had an emergency spell prepared for a natural disaster, a flesh to stone spell for all those who live on the island. When AO draws the island back up from the depths a stone to flesh spell is triggered. The People of Lantan have no memories of the spellplague years obviously.
Nimbral,easiest of all, it was all an illusion!
To expand to Sulphor I'd have one of the Djinn forced to restore the city to life now that they have the power to grant wishes again. |
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