| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Azuth |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 03:39:34
As a DM, a player, and a reader of Realms' fiction, I am often baffled with the Wishspell. Casting aside the variations of the spell momentarily, I'm curious about or for what your character would wish if he or she were in the Realms (please state the year or era in which you're casting). Being focused on the English language as someone who holds a degree in said subject, I often enjoy having my PCs sit down and try to discern (generally argumentatively amongst each other) how I might twist their wish spells. I believe that this is why the Wish is so rarely used in Realm novels, and so I am intrigued in the other scribes' thoughts on the matter, here within Candlekeep's hallowed, virtual halls. Once a wish is "cast" by a scribe, I welcome other scribes to point out how a wish might be construed. The intent if this discussion is some fun and mirth, and so although it goes without saying, I hope that all who post will follow the Keep's Code of Conduct. Keep it fun, please. Also, under what conditions do you consider a wish complete? For example, my PCs know that certain conjunctions (and, or, but) usually immediately trigger the wish. And before asked, I'll answer the question that I'll be posting my own wish as soon as I can formulate it. 
Happy wishing!
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 09 Apr 2011 : 09:07:40
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I wish WotC would publish PSK's Godborn this year!
---
Seldom are wish spells used in novels, or revealed to have been used. Some unnamed spells, like that binding Telamont used against Mephistopheles, and that shield he erected to deflect the Chosen's silverfire, might be wish spells. If I recall it right, Tam also used them in the HL trilogy, as [again, if I remember it correctly] noted by Lallara in their final confrontation.
I can't see the shield he used to deflect silverfire being a wish spell. The spell requires too much on the spot special wording for him to have cast it. Granted he may have used a wish spell to be granted the knowledge of how to block Silverfire since he is the only one ever known to have done it.
Against Mephistopheles I never saw anything that could not be done without a wish spell. As another said, it was made clear he was drawing power from both his archwizards and possibly the Mythallar. it was made clear before the summoning that he was probably the only one on Shade who could have done it with help. due to his personal power. If a wish spell made it possible, than there were many who could have done it
We better ask Paul. And I'll ask Troy in his FB. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 16:17:52
Could there be a 4E Wish Ritual that could be used to boost stats etc... (which would be something to work towards at level 30 I imagine)? |
| Abenabin Gimblescrew |
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 15:52:21
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
Can we expand this topic to include "miracle"?
Basically the same spell haha.
Elminster used several wish spells to increase his intelligence haha. Which in the end, is genius(Pun intended)
If my PCs use wishes to increase a stat I usually don't make them word it or say it out load. A five point increase to a stat is hardly that big of an impact at later levels.
I do require it for something is of greater power such as having an artifact in their possession, gaining a castle, etc. Wording in those cases are important. As well as say for having the ability to use a certain spell(s) an unlimited times per day.
I once had someone word having the ability to cast fireballs without limitation. Needless to say he should have specified it a little better, because he farted and shot a fire ball at the camp. One time he went to the outhouse at a tavern and ended up blowing up the crapper - literally.
He eventually had the wish spell undone, but unfortunately for him he was known for his legendary bowel movements throughout all of Faerun. The party bard made a killing off of royalties for his book if I recall correctly.
As for miracles I think those are less likely to turn out wrong depending upon the deity granting the miracle. It is also dependent on what is being asked of them to do.
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| Firestorm |
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 14:48:13
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I wish WotC would publish PSK's Godborn this year!
---
Seldom are wish spells used in novels, or revealed to have been used. Some unnamed spells, like that binding Telamont used against Mephistopheles, and that shield he erected to deflect the Chosen's silverfire, might be wish spells. If I recall it right, Tam also used them in the HL trilogy, as [again, if I remember it correctly] noted by Lallara in their final confrontation.
I can't see the shield he used to deflect silverfire being a wish spell. The spell requires too much on the spot special wording for him to have cast it. Granted he may have used a wish spell to be granted the knowledge of how to block Silverfire since he is the only one ever known to have done it.
Against Mephistopheles I never saw anything that could not be done without a wish spell. As another said, it was made clear he was drawing power from both his archwizards and possibly the Mythallar. it was made clear before the summoning that he was probably the only one on Shade who could have done it with help. due to his personal power. If a wish spell made it possible, than there were many who could have done it |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 14:42:27
Can we expand this topic to include "miracle"?
Basically the same spell haha.
Elminster used several wish spells to increase his intelligence haha. Which in the end, is genius(Pun intended) |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 14:35:16
Well for Laeral I would need to wish that Khelben doesn't find out  . |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Apr 2011 : 17:21:19
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
If I were in the realms, maybe I would wish to bed (the wish would be spoken more specifically than I could write on here) each of the Seven Sisters (Pre-death of Sylune).
A least a couple of them would not require anything more than a politely expressed interest, thinks I.
Which ones do you think are "easy" Wooly?
Well, Alustriel is certainly not known for her prudishness, and I'd imagine that Storm has had more than one casual romp in the hay. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 07 Apr 2011 : 15:52:04
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
If I were in the realms, maybe I would wish to bed (the wish would be spoken more specifically than I could write on here) each of the Seven Sisters (Pre-death of Sylune).
A least a couple of them would not require anything more than a politely expressed interest, thinks I.
Which ones do you think are "easy" Wooly? |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 07 Apr 2011 : 13:38:36
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
How many wish spells can a wizard of Tam or Telamont's caliber cast in a day?
As much as he's willing to pay in EXP I guess. 5000 xp per casting is alot, even for the Most High (he wouldn't want one of his son to surpass him, would he?) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 07 Apr 2011 : 09:55:02
How many wish spells can a wizard of Tam or Telamont's caliber cast in a day? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Apr 2011 : 18:26:55
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
If I were in the realms, maybe I would wish to bed (the wish would be spoken more specifically than I could write on here) each of the Seven Sisters (Pre-death of Sylune).
A least a couple of them would not require anything more than a politely expressed interest, thinks I. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 06 Apr 2011 : 15:39:24
If I were in the realms, maybe I would wish to bed (the wish would be spoken more specifically than I could write on here) each of the Seven Sisters (Pre-death of Sylune). |
| Azuth |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 19:47:21
quote:
Originally posted by MalariaMoon
In my own campaigns I’ve never used the Wish spell so literally, but rather as a generic default for any kind of ‘all-powerful’ spell not covered in the existing rosters. I can’t envisage the great spellcasters of the Realms sitting down and saying “I wish ...”
<snip>
Vangerdahast did just that in Death of the Dragon. He didn't come up with a very good wish in the end, though...which is pretty much the point of this topic.
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| Bladewind |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 19:04:20
I advocate wish granters and recievers to listen to Buddha: "Words have the power to both destroy and heal; when they are both true and kind, they can change our world"
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| Ayrik |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 17:22:32
They say power corrupts. Certainly, I've yet to meet a player who is entirely immune to the lure of power a wish can offer. The smart ones have a wish or three prepared in advance and immediately burn their wish off to thwart temptation, better to suffer your greed and uncertainty after the deed is irrevocably done. |
| MalariaMoon |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 16:40:50
In my own campaigns I’ve never used the Wish spell so literally, but rather as a generic default for any kind of ‘all-powerful’ spell not covered in the existing rosters. I can’t envisage the great spellcasters of the Realms sitting down and saying “I wish ...”
However, I realise this approach does eliminate a lot of fun when it comes to carefully wording a wish.
The wishes of my two characters are fairly simple, based on story factors rather than power-gaming.
Joreth Amoros – a mage of Chessenta.
“I wish to complete my studies at the Scholam Arcanum in Mordulkin” (Joreth was kicked out because he couldn’t pay for his tuition fees)
Erialis Farwhisper, a gold elf rogue/mage adventuring in the North
“I wish I was on Evermeet, not suffering the rude company of these half-dozen human adventurers.” (Of course, it would be a lot simpler if Erialis kept his wish to the first six words, but I think it would only be fitting if his persistent bigotry twisted his wish somewhat)
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| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 06:56:20
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Yes, I suppose only a mathematician, computer programmer, or semantic logician would understand Boolean logic. Three in one for me, so I find technical misuse of conjunctions/operators rather difficult to overlook. It's less about neurotic obsession and more about having a sometimes overprecise manner of thinking.
Ah, Boolean logic and assembly language programming. That takes me back to the "good old days" of late 80's programming. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 06:51:07
I don't think anything is wrong with the wish Wooly...just saying something like "...while being under his full control..." might be something I would allow more quickly. Essentially, I placed as a stop-gap measure that saying "and" in a wish would ruin the wish. Essentially I did it only to prevent greed; but in game terms I used the explanation that it was simply one of the rules of wish magic. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 06:46:59
quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My minotaur wished to permanently be under the effects of a fly spell, with unlimited duration and under his full control.
I'm a devious sort, so I spent time pondering that one, making sure I worded it in such as a way as to not be twisted (I still have, I believe, the full written version around here someplace). After I'd pondered it, sat on it for a while, then pondered it some more, I made an INT check for my minotaur, to see if he'd come up with that wording*.
* I'm smarter than that character, so I often made INT checks to see if he'd think of something I came up with. That was a self-imposed penalty; to try to prevent the metagaming inevitable with a situation like that.
The wording would be the key, as the "and" clause would kick a spell off in my games. Something like "I wish to be permanently affected by a spell of flight that shall remain totally under my control until I have reached the end of my natural life." (This allows you to maintain the spell through, say, a Raise Dead or Ressurection I'd say. Or does it?)  I'll usually allow the conjunction "until" in a wish.
Seriously? This particular "and" -- and I don't recall if I actually used that word, I'm just paraphrasing -- was still relevant to what was being wished for. It's not like wanting a spell to be under your control is trying to get a second wish. If the wish was "I want X and I want Y," then I would agree with you. But this was "I want X, delivered in this specific manner." How that could be an issue is rather puzzling to me. |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 06:43:50
Playing by 4e rules, as I do, the only creature that has the wish spell is the pit fiend. Most of my characters have the common sense to realize that dealing with a pit fiend is likely too risky.
Among those who might risk it out of anger or desparation, I have a human rogue/fighter who would wish for my half-orc paladin(who cut of his arm and scarred his face) to be summoned before him without armor or weapons. I also have an illithid monk who'd either wish for the ability to sustain himself on normal food rather than brains, or a method of shielding himself from his kind to avoid them when they come hunting for him. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 06:10:38
I've used it twice in my writing and RP'ing. Both wishes came from the same item- a pendant with three of them stored inside. The first was triggered in a story accidentally. The character who used it was kneeling by a dead friend, and said "I wish you were alive again so I could see you smile and hear you laugh." It simply rezzed the dead character. The second time was triggered by the (formerly) dead PC, when he was in the middle of a space-battle (an RP with some heavy sci-fi tossed into the Realms- don't ask) on a huge "Imperial Destroyer" type ship. He and several other PC's had gone up on the ship along with some members of its crew, and when the targeting array on the big guns got knocked out, he said, "I wish for myself and the rest of the party to have all knowledge of the operation of this ship." He was attempting to give everyone the skills to man the guns themselves. It worked- except that it also had some unintended side-effects, like filling his head with a bunch of trivial stuff from the ship's data-banks as well as the operation of the ship's technology. He know has their entire music library in his memory, and will sometimes find himself whistling tunes he didn't even realize he knows! |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 05:58:43
Yes, I suppose only a mathematician, computer programmer, or semantic logician would understand Boolean logic. Three in one for me, so I find technical misuse of conjunctions/operators rather difficult to overlook. It's less about neurotic obsession and more about having a sometimes overprecise manner of thinking.
You might find this scroll interesting. I believe it was actually my first submission at Candlekeep, lol. |
| Azuth |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 05:18:19
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I don't like AND because so many players try to get more than one thing while using it...so it is more likely my dislike of greed that makes me twist wishes with "and" inside them.
Precisely so, which is why I generally trigger the wish when a conjunction is spoken. "And," "or," "if," and "but" are the biggest offenders.
Arik, I've dealt in programming languages, and understand literal interpretation of words well, which may explain why I use them as trigger words. To me, when a character tries to conditionally clause his wish, the spell gets tired of waiting and triggers. Since I like to think that my sole purpose in life isn't just to try the patience of my players, I allow "unless" or "until" as long as they're used well in the wish. Although I did once have a player end her wish with "unless this wish doesn't take effect as I want it to" and I triggered the wish because of a dangling preposition. 
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| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 05:07:33
I don't like AND because so many players try to get more than one thing while using it...so it is more likely my dislike of greed that makes me twist wishes with "and" inside them. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 05:01:15
Dennis — the "standard" spells I listed above have unsurpassed potency when the subject's true name is known and the spell is cast by a wizard of Telamont's superior caliber. Also, consider that his magic was fortified by his handpicked team of elite archwizard minions, and was evidently drawing power from his mythallar.
My tendency is to think, speak, and write language in a literal, precise, and mathematical manner; alas, I also tend to misinterpret the language when I hear or read it in the same terms. The words AND, OR, and NOT serve very strict (Boolean) functions within my language, yet not so within common English usage; they are consequently excellent words upon which to pivot a convoluted wish. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 04:40:34
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Dennis — Telamont's spell might have been unique (or indeed, purposely invented/adapted and left vague because what mattered was how it worked in the story); but also might have been a "standard" spell like true name, binding, spiritwrack, trap the soul, imprisonment, etc
So he thought the Chosen and Mephisto are nothing but "standard" [ordinary] opponents that he would only use "standard" spells against them? Not that I don't like that idea. I could imagine him saying in his haughtiest disposition, "Begone, you insignificant insects!" |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 04:40:17
Yeah...I don't allow "And" in any wish at all...that one can cause BAD mojo for a character. |
| Azuth |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 04:33:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My minotaur wished to permanently be under the effects of a fly spell, with unlimited duration and under his full control.
I'm a devious sort, so I spent time pondering that one, making sure I worded it in such as a way as to not be twisted (I still have, I believe, the full written version around here someplace). After I'd pondered it, sat on it for a while, then pondered it some more, I made an INT check for my minotaur, to see if he'd come up with that wording*.
* I'm smarter than that character, so I often made INT checks to see if he'd think of something I came up with. That was a self-imposed penalty; to try to prevent the metagaming inevitable with a situation like that.
The wording would be the key, as the "and" clause would kick a spell off in my games. Something like "I wish to be permanently affected by a spell of flight that shall remain totally under my control until I have reached the end of my natural life." (This allows you to maintain the spell through, say, a Raise Dead or Ressurection I'd say. Or does it?) I'll usually allow the conjunction "until" in a wish.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 04:11:50
My minotaur wished to permanently be under the effects of a fly spell, with unlimited duration and under his full control.
I'm a devious sort, so I spent time pondering that one, making sure I worded it in such as a way as to not be twisted (I still have, I believe, the full written version around here someplace). After I'd pondered it, sat on it for a while, then pondered it some more, I made an INT check for my minotaur, to see if he'd come up with that wording*.
* I'm smarter than that character, so I often made INT checks to see if he'd think of something I came up with. That was a self-imposed penalty; to try to prevent the metagaming inevitable with a situation like that. |
| Azuth |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 04:00:39
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I wish this wish wasn't granted.
(Then see Ayrik scuttle off with the confused genie's loot)
I dare say this will be difficult enough without involving extraplanar creatures.
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