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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Apr 2006 : 17:31:01
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Well met
This is a Book Club thread for The Ruin (Book 3 of The Year of Rogue Dragons Trilogy), by Richard Lee Byers. Please discuss chapters 12 - 13 and the Epilogue herein.
Richard Lee Byers will be here to answer any questions and respond to comments 
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Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 08:34:09
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I really enjoyed the novel as well as the series as a whole. The characters were great and I really liked the plot of the trilogy as well. This novel had it's fair share of combat as well as adventuring and I thought it was a fun read. i would have liked to see more of Sammaster though. I read through the novel so fast that I, sadly, did not make time to post for each chapter section. So I can't really do a play by play so I will give a few things off the top of my head that I really liked. I really enjoyed the diverse group, an artice dwarf is new to me, a half man half golem also new to me, a song dragon I had read about once, a vampiric dragon was also new to me, a winged elf I had only encounter in oen other novel, and you always need a preist and a rogue. Another aspect I liked was how they had a sort of puzzle to unravel to stop Sammaster's plot. They had to travel around and look for hints on how to solve the rage. I don't have any source books, so it was really neat to see how many different dragon types are out there beyond the chromatics and prismatics.
*** Spoiler if you have not finished the novel ***
One of my favorite parts was near the end when Sammaster went to the ruins to stop the group from ruining his plan. He teleported in and was shocked that the group going into the ruins was not Mystra's Chosen or the Harpers. It definitely made me laugh, he almost seemed disappointed.
One thing I wondered about was if Brimstone's victims would raise to become vampire dragons as well. I am not sure if Mr. Byers thought about it or purposely left it out on perhaps but I was very curious if he could spread his vamprism (is that a word?) or not.
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Tanyn Midrain
Acolyte
Sweden
27 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 22:51:42
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** SPOILER FOR END OF NOVEL **
Echo that, definately a good read, though I did shed a tear for Pavel 
I take it that Sammaster is gone for good?
what about the rage? is it over too, for good i mean?
good end of a good trilogy, and excellent done to keep Brimstone alive  one of the most interesting characters in the entire series. has there been any write-ups of him btw? |
Edited by - Tanyn Midrain on 13 May 2006 22:53:36 |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2006 : 20:48:39
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Just finished the book and loved every page! Fantastic end to a fantastic trilogy. I feel kind of lost and empty now it's all over though
Just a few thoughts on this last section of the book...
The arrival of the other companions in the valley made me realise that all hell was about to break loose A nice touching scene with Dorn and Kara too. It's always good to add such an emotional scene amidst the action. I liked how Kara mentioned Chatulio too, i'd almost forgot all about him and seeing his name brought back some great memories of the first two books.
I loved all the chaos and dragon battles around the fortress. VERY well done and so much detail that I never got fed up with reading about another set of combatants. Little switches in focus, such as the abyssal wyrm fight (wow, they're nasty!) and then to Nexus counteracting a spell where another dragon was turned to stone, made all the difference for me. Great battle scenes and very cinematic.
That was pretty nasty with Dorn and the rust dragon.
I felt quite sad at Havarian's fate when she was so determined to get through the barriers to reach Sammaster for him to kill her with such a simple way (although a powerful spell!)
Sammaster's transformation to a dracolich was great too. Truely got a feel for his size and power.
Lots of sad moments in this part of the book - when Sammaster shattered Brimstones collar and destroyed him (I was so glad he returned later though Long live Brimstone!)
Pavel! Noooooo So sad. What i find odd though is that his body is still where it fell when Brimstone is walking through the fortress. If they buried all the fallen dragons etc, then why did they leave Pavel to just rot?
Great epilogue too. Loved it when the dragons turned on the cultists...a fitting end!
One thing i'd like to have read in the epilogue, or little scenes throughout the book, is what was occuring in other random parts of Faerun and to see the havoc the Rage is causing and how it died down at the end.
Kind of got a lump in my throat when they all started to part ways. Beautiful!
If you're reading this, Richard - thanks for a great journey through this RSE and a fantastic read throughout! |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2006 : 22:45:35
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| Thanks to everyone who's taken the time to post kind comments about the book. I appreciate it very much. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2006 : 05:05:59
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I just finished this today, and I have to say, I was not disapointed in the least.
Richard, you definately didn't walk a straight and predictable line. If I would have guessed someone would have taken one for the team, it would have been Dorn.
I liked how Taegan has decided to embrace being an avarial, but hasn't put aside his more, er, worldly habits because if it. I'm also glad that Jivex is sticking with him. They make an interesting pair.
The portrayal of Sammaster was great. I loved how he wasn't a ranting lunatic when it came to the prophesy, he just seemed to beleive in it as a matter of fact. I also like that he wasn't thinking, behind the scenes, that he was getting one over on all of the dragons of the cult. The fact that his mental instability showed up whenever he seemed to have forgotten some exploited gap in his plan was great. I also like how he seemed to be disappointed that none of the Chosen showed up to take him on, and I was rather glad that they didn't. I imagine they had plenty to worry about with the Rage itself moving forward.
Didn't see the whole fusing the phylactery to the mythal thing, and I like the fact that it was explained how the alternate power worked after the mythal was no longer linked to the stars and the King Killer Comet. I have to admit, while I was misty over Pavel death, I did breifly have a flashback to Spock in Wrath of Khan . . . but Will makes a poor Captain Kirk.
Lord Rad, I think the reason that Pavel's body was still there was because of the golems. No one was in any shape to take them on, even if it meant leaving his body behind.
Oh, I know this likely won't get an answer, but . . . Brimstone survived. Brimstone is a vampire. Richard's next trilogy features undead . . . ?
Thanks for a great book Richard.
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Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2006 : 05:31:28
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I agree with Knight, no one was in any shape to take on those two golems to get to Pavel's body. Those things were nasty to fight.
I also did not expect Pavel to take one for the team either. I also would have thought Dorn would have been more likely to do it since he usually feels worthless or ugly and such. Perhaps he would have even done so if it were not for the rust dragon |
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darkcrow
Learned Scribe
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2006 : 06:25:38
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| Very good Trilogy. I too did not expect Pavel to perish. Definetly a tear jerker. Through out the story, I've been waiting for Elminster to make a guest apperance and save the day, but it never came to be. So what Was he doing while all this is going on. It seemed to me that this was a mess for the Chosen to clean up. It was a great novel though and I hope to meet up with the Champions of the Rage in yet another Trilogy. |
May Tymora smile upon ye |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2006 : 11:03:39
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I think with dragons going insane all over the continent, the Chosen would likely have their hands full dealing with them. In fact, a few enraged great wyrms are going to be more than a handful even for the Chosen to deal with.
Speaking of powerful pains in the rear, I wonder what Imvaernarhro did during the rage? |
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darkcrow
Learned Scribe
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2006 : 02:49:14
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 I heard you the first time But don't you think the Chosen would be more apt to solving the mystery of ending the Rage instead of destroying dragons by the bushel. You would think Elminster would make use of his supernatrual intelligance and wisdom to get to the bottom of it rather than waste his time destoying the threat as it presents itself. You know I thought Richard was foreshadowing about Mystra's Chosen making an appearance but he was probably just trying to throw me off about how the book was going to end. |
May Tymora smile upon ye |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2006 : 03:07:12
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| Cleaned up the triple replies. :) Candlekeep had a attack of the imps again. Nasty buggers keep getting past us and the guardian(s). |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2006 : 03:19:53
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Actually (I'm not certain as I'll have to check)... I may have inadvertently released a couple of those imps about twenty-or-so minutes ago.
Sorry! 
EDIT: They're all back in their cages now though... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 27 May 2006 03:20:47 |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2006 : 16:12:09
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great trilogy
will and pavel's ceaseless war of words were my favorite part
one thing missing though RLB, WOTC editors must have accidentally edited the part in the end about how you explained Iyraclea is still alive! Unless they have another RSE trilogy planned with the upheaval in the Great Glacier planned to compensate for what her loss will mean. I'm not a big rules lawery type in canon vs. novels discussion but losing Iyraclea is too big a canon hit for that region when she is so newly detailed in Epic Level Handbook and is the backbone antagonist of many regional campaigns
Losing Sammaster is fine because he was a re-tread, no harm no foul
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Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2006 : 18:13:10
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clarification of the above post...
not to say that epic level NPCs should never die, but she seemingly went out like a snot-nosed acolyte, not an epic level chosen of auril
and the fact that she died meaningless to her goals/objectives, 25+ level genious intelligent NPCs should be the epics they are, not get caught up in another's schemes and die meaningless to their deity's goals if they are chosen divine worshippers
and i know some will say that, "hey do whatever you want in your campaign", but it just takes the luster and mystique off something to read about it dying such a meaningless death
other than that though, i say again, great trilogy and great to hear about some lesser travelled areas of faerun such as sossal, narfell, and the great glacier
one question i'd like to ask is there a general location that the primordial elven citadel is in relation to the great glacier?
i know north but where? |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2006 : 00:37:18
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First, thanks again to all who have had kind things to say about the trilogy.
coach: To be honest, I didn't worry about assigning a specific location to the citadel for two reasons:
1. The part of Faerûn in which it stands is unmapped (at least in any product to which I had access), which would make it difficult.
2. All travel back and forth was by teleportation, which made it irrelevant to the plot. |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2006 : 15:28:54
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Excellent trilogy indeed. Though the characters were interesting in their own right, for me the various settings in the trilogy were the key to its success. You made the right move including Impiltur and Sossal. And I've always wanted to see an adventure in Northkeep. Again, awesome job.
Come on Richard, you can tell us. What does Scattercloak look like under that hood? |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2006 : 17:30:01
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| Why do you assume that I know? |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2006 : 09:49:45
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quote:
As for
Scattercloak, I recently queried Ed on this personage and he stated that
there is nothing concrete or canon about him/her.
Taken from the Wizards-Oracle, originally by George Krashos. Dunno if it's still up to date, though  |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
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Kuyahdon
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 16:29:00
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Enjoyable triology... the fights were great. Loved Jivex!
Felt at times Dorn and company way too powerfull to contend with Dracoliches, survive a full on breath, while Adult Wrymms falls... nasty encounter with the Rust dragon though.
I wish there were more of Sammaster through out the books, but I guess have to keep the page count down. Also, didn't like the fight and ending of Iyraclea (sp)... I pictured her more capable, not even a contingient dimension door in her arsenal (she had wizard thralls after all)?
LOL at her rolling a one though! Maybe Sammaster level drained her to that of "snot-nosed acolyte".
But over all, a good read. |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 16:42:14
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| Glad you enjoyed it, Kuy. |
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Kuyahdon
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 20:28:41
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I just realized part of my reply is refering to another thread to the Chosen of Auril rolling a one...
Question...
With the end of Rage, do you see the resurgance of dragons as the dominant race in Faerun? Or most likely that the other races have had such a foothold that dragons would never re-claim their "glory" days.
Also, Is this the end of the Cult of the Dragons? They sure are greatly weakened and depleted in resources with their "rush" to convert Sacred Ones...
Wouldn't it be great if Brimstone were to pose as Sammaster to use the Cult for his nefarious schemes?  |
Edited by - Kuyahdon on 10 Jul 2006 21:43:52 |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 22:48:08
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The Cult is weakened but not defunct. That's the offiicial straight poop from WotC.
As far as the future of the dragon race, even if I knew (and I'm not saying I do), I wouldn't spoil the ongoing saga for you. You just have to stay tuned and in time, all will be revealed. Or at least some stuff will be revealed. |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 18:34:21
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I had this to say on the novels forum, if I may:
quote:
I must say that I had a bit of trouble catching up to the events in The Rite, but that soon passed. That always happens to me when there's that inevitable wait in-between books.
I LOVED the Iryaclea appearance. I was grinning from ear to ear when she was introduced. It reminded me of things like seeing Wolverine in a Spider-man comic, etc. A lot like seeing Starbrow in the Last Mythal series. I was kind of disappointed that she was killed by a white dracolich of all things. I would have expected the Ice Queen to knock the dracolich into next Tuesday. Whites aren't exactly masters of magic, even at great wyrm age...
But that's where one must be careful. One can't assume that the author has the rules memorized. It's always fun making those distinctions (because the connection to the game is clear as day), but like other posters have mentioned, you can't go through the Rogue Dragon books (or any other FR novel) and annotate each paragraph with die rolls, skill checks, and feat usage.
All in all, I think the Rogue Dragon books (and the anthology companions) are a great addition to the FR library.
I really enjoyed the entire trilogy. I often rate books from a DM's viewpoint. The Rogue Dragon books served me as a great resource of Realms lore AND the execution of powerful characters like Chosen of Auril, necromancer liches, legions of dragons, and, most importantly, the tactics of dragon slayers.
I loved the characters. The play between Will and Pavel reminded me of Belkram and Itharr (two beloved favorites). Meeting Raryn's people was interesting. The great treks across land were GREAT! It's nice seeing that as oppose to simple teleportation and portal usage. Those scenes were also great food for DMs running and role-playing overland movement.
I liked the splitting of the group, I liked the Tarterian dragons, I liked Taegan wheeling-and-dealing in the skies, I liked Brimstone (I LOVE that the trilogy ended with him), I loved Jivex, and I bought into the gelugons (I'm critical when it comes to fiends and behavior... I paid careful attention to Malkizid in Last Mythal).
There are a number of powerful baddies in recent novels: Sarya, Malkizid, the Sojourner, Iryaclea... It's interesting observing their level of confidence and competence. I wanted Sammaster to be... badder, perhaps. Of course, his weakness comes from the many "betrayals" in his life: Mystra, Alustriel (great reference in the novel!), so I can see that side of it. As I mentioned above, I also thought that Iryaclea should have bested the white dracolich. Just a fanboy speaking out.
I await more stories dealing with Dorn and all of them. So many stories just end with the third novel. |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
Edited by - Crust on 11 Jul 2006 18:56:59 |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 19:37:50
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| Glad you liked it, Crust. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 02:09:25
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Overall, I must say the trilogy and the last book itself were indeed a very good read afterall.
Sammaster's frustrations in the ending were indeed very amusing to me, for most of the time, I believed him to be some sort of composed lich who have a solution for almost any problem that crops up, yet his narrow thinking on the identities of the people disrupting his plans were certainly funny enough when he realized who the disruptors were. I was expecting Sammaster to merely raise an eyebrow at the discovery of the disruptors and annhilate them with supernecromantic spells given his incredible power though the way he shot down the silvers and finished off Brimstone did lived up to the expectation of sammaster as a powerful figure of legend. Nevertheless, I liked Sammaster.
Pavel combines the traits of a thinking scholar with a fighting priest, which was kind of unexpected for a humble priest like him. The manner in which he ingeniously solved the mysteries of say, a way to destroy the mythal was kind of...too easy for him, I'd expected more experimentation from Pavel before pavel could find a way to truly destroy the mythal. The fact that the mythal was so quite easily located also kind of too easy for the heroes, I d'expected the mythal to be shielded by formidable prismatic walls and forcefields as well as more dynamically powerful guardians that will challenge the characters to their limits. It would had made for a more eye-seizing read.
Nevertheless, I still say the trilogy was a very good read and well-written nonetheless. I will be hoping for the return of Sammaster, in a more powerful form hopefully to impose a tougher challenge on future heroes. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 03:08:15
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| Glad you enjoyed it, Shad. |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 03:41:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuyahdon
Also, Is this the end of the Cult of the Dragons? They sure are greatly weakened and depleted in resources with their "rush" to convert Sacred Ones...
It is not the end of the Cult of the Dragon. See Dragons of Faerun, if you're so inclined, for more information.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Oniondreamer
Acolyte
Philippines
1 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2006 : 05:10:48
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Hi to everyone! I'm just new here, and just want to say that the trilogy had been a great read for me and it is worthy of naming the year about it!:D
I enjoyed it so much that i'd backtrack the battle sequences fully visualize the scenario because it's that detailed. the dragonic dog-fights and "fencing david vs winged goliath" scenarios truly gave the book justice.
I really enjoyed the characters, and i hope that someday they'll continue their adventures in the future.
Taegan and Drizzt adventures? how's that sounds?! HEhehe
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2006 : 05:31:35
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| Glad you enjoyed it, Onion. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2006 : 20:54:47
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Wow! Having Dorn get blasted by a rust dragon of all things (with the obvious consequences) was a great touch.
I have about 40 more pages to go, and so far I've really enjoyed this book. It's true that it sort of suffers from "third book in the trilogy" syndrome--that is, there isn't much left to do except tie up loose ends--by the action sequences are nicely written and definitely convey a palpable sense of danger. I especially liked the parts of the book involving the ice dwarves, Iyraclea, and Zethrindor. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 23:34:54
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Yes, I finally finished this novel! I'd say it was a fantastic conclusion to the series, and I loved how Brimstone managed to stay alive by the end. The novel was very effective in making me feel misty-eyed at the death of certain characters, too...and even at Dorn gaining some confidence in himself when he needed it.
I loved Jivex (the cute fairy dragon) and I have to say, I really liked Raryn. He seemed a like a good and dependable person, and it's refreshing to have characters who don't have some psychological hangup that needs to be solved (even Sammaster seemed like he could have used some time on a psychologist's couch). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Ruin: Chapters 12 - 13 and Epilogue
