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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 00:43:24
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Well met
This is a Book Club thread for Downshadow [Book 3 of "The Ed Greenwood Presents Waterdeep" series], by Erik Scott de Bie. Please discuss the Prologue to Chapter 5 herein:
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 10 Aug 2010 05:42:04
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2009 : 23:53:26
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| A nice start, flush with interesting characters that seem ever increasing in numbers. Kinda Ed-like in having a wider focus beyond Shadowbane. Enjoy most eveything so far except all the references to "spellscarred"(nothing personal here. , but if I read that term many more times I may hurl. I am overcoming that urge by reading It as simply scarred). There is plenty of magic and magic items, which is just as I like it as none of it is realms shaking and is adding to the narrative. Much more could be said, but I really have an urge to just keep reading it! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2009 : 07:37:46
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Yay first Book Club post!
In the same sentence as Ed? I'll take it! 
Sorry if the term is bulky--in this case, I didn't have a lot of margin. A spellscar is a particular thing, and people who possess them are called spellscarred. But I don't think I used it a whole lot later on--it's just mentioned as such early in the book, in order to fix the concept firmly in mind
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2009 : 15:11:39
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And Ed-like is a term I don't throw around much, as it is must be earned! And also your women in this tale so far are all very THO-like.....
And no need to apologize for the clunkiness of spellscarred, as grandpa said "It is what it is, and that's all it can be" , it just kinda seems like this many years after the blue fire, there would not be a spellscarred at every turn. And it's funny with all the talk of chapbooks And broadsheets on Ed'd scroll latelyy this book is chock full of them.......awesome!!!!!!!
Oh yeah and halflings......Steven must be soooo proud!! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2009 : 18:12:08
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Spellscars are something that can manifest through a number of generations, or skip generations and show up in your family later. Think of a spellscarring as sort of like lycanthropy--extremely difficult to get rid of, and potentially very dangerous.
I'm really trying NOT to foster the impression that there's a spellscarred "around every turn." The main character (Shadowbane) is spellscarred, yes, and there are a couple of supporting characters who also are, and Downshadow is supposed to be a haven for those who the Spellplague's legacy has rendered unfit to live in decent society (i.e., spellscarred so badly they are deformed or otherwise feared). So yeah, it's gonna come up, but one shouldn't take from my novel that spellscars are particularly common in the Realms.
As regards halflings and broadsheets, I was particularly pleased with the underground printing press run by Cellica's family.
So, er . . . any questions so far?
Cheers
P.S. I was totally thinking of a very short Steven Schend when I wrote Cellica's adoptive father, Philbin. |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2009 : 18:51:48
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Thanks for the clarification, it definatley eases my mind to think the rest of the realmsis not so thick with spellscarred.
And Cellica( last name is not toyota I hope!) has very cool family there. I could almost see an apple fly her way when one of the little ones mentioned second morningfest!
No questions yet, I can sense the genesis of a few, but I am finding I just want to keep reading!
A and a special thanks for telling us you imagined Steve as a halfling, I am having troubles banishing the vision of a wooly-footed Steven holding I to a small ale and exclaiming "It comes in pints?!?" |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2009 : 20:36:41
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I don't believe Cellica has a last name . . . and no, she's definitely not named after the car.
And now I'm gonna stop bugging you so you can keep reading.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2009 : 00:04:35
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You are not bugging me at all
I know exctly where your from on this, it's your baby, and you are excited for questions, comments and feedback. I think you have a greg feeling for this one and can't wait to see what we think.
OK then, one question. Shadowbane/Kalen seems to have a doom looming over his head like a few of your other major characters. Was that intentional going into the book or did it just evolve that way? And if it is too early in the club to answer feel free to post it in a later scroll. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 11 Apr 2009 03:49:58 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2009 : 04:10:44
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Yeah, I'll get over those jitters.
Using an ephemeral hero is definitely something I was interested in from the beginning, and it's a theme that I personally am very interested in. Themes of mortality and choice and defiance in the face of mounting doom.
That was the story I was telling, where the hero has a choice: lament his fate and give up, or use the time left to him to do what he thinks is right.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 22:43:31
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Late Tarsakh 1479, through Greengrass, into early Mirtul.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 15:33:24
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You're quite welcome, Fillow. Let me know if there's anything else I can do.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 16:11:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
P.S. I was totally thinking of a very short Steven Schend when I wrote Cellica's adoptive father, Philbin.
Thanks, Erik!
The best thing about being reimagined as a halfling is that it's far easier to get beers the size of your head  And isn't that the important thing when it comes to conventions and writerly discussions among such as we?
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 17:29:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
The best thing about being reimagined as a halfling is that it's far easier to get beers the size of your head And isn't that the important thing when it comes to conventions and writerly discussions among such as we?
Yes, yes indeed!
How's the book so far, Steve? I tried to play nice in our shared sandbox. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 28 May 2009 18:28:45 |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 15:18:01
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Hi Erik, my copy arrived and I couldn't resist and set the other book I was reading aside for a while.
I was intrigued immediately with Rath! Really nice entry for him!
What I do not understand though is why he suddenly needs 4 bullies to help him out in a plain robbery and why he has to demand the gold instead of just taking it!?
Will this be revealed lateron or what is the background of this?
So far I like the atmosphere very much. Though it feels a bit sad that Undermountain is not Undermountain anymore, it has also its advantages. It is an interesting construct to have some levels of non-monster inhabitants as a buffer between lower Undermountain instead of stepping into the first level and face drow, evil mages and so on at once. |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 17:00:43
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
I was intrigued immediately with Rath! Really nice entry for him!
I'm glad you like him. Part of my challenge to myself in this book was writing a convincing dwarf character who *worked* . . . it seems most people do tend to like him, so I'll take that as a success.
quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
What I do not understand though is why he suddenly needs 4 bullies to help him out in a plain robbery and why he has to demand the gold instead of just taking it!?
Will this be revealed later on or what is the background of this?
Oh Rath doesn't *need* them--he's certainly capable of doing whatever he wants himself. Hired thugs are just helpful pawns for doing unsavory things like roughing somebody up or getting themselves dirty. As shown in the scene in the bar, Rath is meticulous: he holds those less perfect than himself (everyone) in contempt and finds touching others distasteful.
As for why he demanded the gold rather than just took it, he's not a common thief or mugger. As evidenced by how he kills one of his own men for even *suggesting* to assault Fayne, he holds himself and those he works with to a higher standard.
There are also practical reasons: he doesn't want to be known as a mugger or brigand or unprofessional.
quote:
So far I like the atmosphere very much. Though it feels a bit sad that Undermountain is not Undermountain anymore, it has also its advantages. It is an interesting construct to have some levels of non-monster inhabitants as a buffer between lower Undermountain instead of stepping into the first level and face drow, evil mages and so on at once.
I'm glad you like the atmosphere! I like making the setting a silent character in the book, and that was certainly one of the things I was going after with Downshadow in Downshadow.
Let me try and dispel that notion about Undermountain being no longer Undermountain: AFAIK, the only revealed differences are that the first level (which is maybe 2% of the overall dungeon) is partly pacified into a "neighborhood" (i.e., lots of adventurers live and work there) and Halaster's gone (or is he???). Otherwise, it's a hundred years of wear and tear, but no major changes--I believe Halaster's wards are still up and functioning as predictable as they ever did (which is, for the record, not at all predictable), and there are still legions of baddies (and probably more than a few of Halaster's old apprentices) swarming the lower levels.
It's not my intention to replace Undermountain or foster the impression that it isn't around anymore. I'm a big UM fan, and I think it's one of the most iconic things about the Realms.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 29 May 2009 17:35:57 |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 17:42:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I'm glad you like him. Part of my challenge to myself in this book was writing a convincing dwarf character who *worked* . . . it seems most people do tend to like him, so I'll take that as a success.
A very unusual dwarf character but that's exactly what makes him special. Really impressed me at once! And when he asks Bleakbeard why he would stab his own companion...absolutely great! 
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Oh Rath doesn't *need* them--he's certainly capable of doing whatever he wants himself. Hired thugs are just helpful pawns for doing unsavory things like roughing somebody up or getting themselves dirty. As shown in the scene in the bar, Rath is meticulous: he holds those less perfect than himself (everyone) in contempt and finds touching others distasteful.
As for why he demanded the gold rather than just took it, he's not a common thief or mugger. As evidenced by how he kills one of his own men for even *suggesting* to assault Fayne, he holds himself and those he works with to a higher standard.
There are also practical reasons: he doesn't want to be known as a mugger or brigand or unprofessional.
Alright, now it starts making much more sense to me. Would probably have been clearer if I had already read more chapters with Rath and thus get to know better his mentality.
So it is an attitude thing, some kind of code of conduct.
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Let me try and dispel that notion: Undermountain is very much still Undermountain, it's just that the first level (which is maybe 2% of the overall dungeon) is partly pacified (i.e., lots of adventurers live and work there). It's not my intention to replace Undermountain or foster the impression that it isn't around anymore.
I actually never got the perception or idea that you are replacing Undermountain. In fact I think it is a good idea to have some kind of "buffer layer" on the first levels of Undermountain. The only bad or better said sentimental thing about it is this feeling of having lost the old realms in general, which is not due to you but 4e. But in this particular case I rather consider it an improvement. However I have not read anything about the lower levels of Undermountain in 4e so I do not know it is still as fascinating down there as it used to be. I will probably see lateron in the book? |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 19:39:52
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The book doesn't delve any deeper than Downshadow, though there is some discussion about Undermountain and how it connects to one of the characters in particular . . . just sort of teasing hints. You'll see.
As for whether Undermountain is as wondrous as ever, well, that's up to the DM. As I see it, part of the 4e FR design philosophy was to put the onus on DMs to come up with what they wanted to run with. If you want to do all your research from the original UM material (and I did a bit for this novel), that's fine--if you want to make it have changed substantially and be a brand new dungeon, that's fine too.
It's your Realms!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2009 : 23:06:34
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So, after digesting the finale of Ed´s trilogy,I´ve started on "Downshadow" and read the first five chapters in one sitting, before being most rudely forced to take a break by university class. Just a few short coments, since I want to get back to reading
The setting of the mood for both Waterdeep and Downshadow so far is mighty fine. Even to a 4E cynic like me...´tis Waterdeep, alright, and that´s a great thing. Really well done Realmsian feel.
The small presses of Waterdeep were especially appreciated, great stuff.
I also really liked the distinct mannerisms of speech you gave the different characters. It adds greatly to their personas.
All in all, so far, the characters have me hooked (and had so quite quickly). Rath and Fayne are intriguing villains and the "heroes" are really likable so far (see, Spellscarred or no...a good character is a good character and will shine IMO). If thine work continues like this for the rest of the novel, I´d be tempted to say that these could even be you strongest characters to date (and that´s no slight onyour former ones).
Great prose, great chars, intriguing setting and Realmsian feel...this is a definite winner in the early stages. Three Huzzahs for you
PS: So Ed Greenwood bought four, according to the foreword, eh? I´m sure you had him sold on the sensual/sexual undertones of the novel alone, which are the best I´ve so far read in any FR novel. Well executed, Saer. |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 01:26:28
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I'm glad you're liking it, Dart--it's particularly gratifying because I know you're not sold on 4e. I'm glad I can tell a good story that is distinctly Realms, regardless of when and where. (Though I'll tell a story set in Waterdeep any day!)
quote:
Originally posted by Dart Ambermoon
The small presses of Waterdeep were especially appreciated, great stuff.
That was definitely a priority to get in there, both because of my journalistic background and because it was just a great way to ground the story in the city. I was reading through Ed's Waterdeep Bible, and he had fantastic sections on the various broadsheets and public news sources, and I though they really needed a place to shine. Hence, here we go.
There's a reference, actually, in Rosemary's City of the Dead to the broadsheets, where a certain venerable lady is reading through moldering back copies from months previous and remarking on how boring the news is these days (as compared to *her* day). It's very clever.
Did I mention CotD = awesome book? Yeah. CotD = awesome book.
quote:
I also really liked the distinct mannerisms of speech you gave the different characters. It adds greatly to their personas.
I'm glad that worked for you. I'm trying to get better at that in my style, and I think it came out well in this book (your feedback confirms the theory).
quote:
All in all, so far, the characters have me hooked (and had so quite quickly). Rath and Fayne are intriguing villains and the "heroes" are really likable so far (see, Spellscarred or no...a good character is a good character and will shine IMO)
By the Seven Stars, you're right. Thank you for saying so!
quote:
PS: So Ed Greenwood bought four, according to the foreword, eh? I´m sure you had him sold on the sensual/sexual undertones of the novel alone, which are the best I´ve so far read in any FR novel. Well executed, Saer.
Heh. You're not even to the topless chase scene. Or the use of warlock attack powers in an affectionate way.
Everything there is exactly as I wrote it, and I haven't found any instances where my editor cut out smexiness . . . aside from a few moments where she thought I was focusing too much on the clothes my male lead was (or in this case wasn't) wearing. Ye gasp! 
(Well, and aside from the orgy that was cut out of chapter 24 . . .)
And I think/hope Ed was pleased with how sexy I made his Realms.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 18 Jun 2009 01:30:15 |
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Gang Falconhand
Seeker
United Kingdom
85 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2009 : 11:52:43
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I've only just started reading it, but I'm really loving it already.
I'll echo what others have said about the 'shared focus' and even though I'm not a fan of the 4E realms I think you've really captured the spirit of Waterdeep for me.
Top marks ESdB! |
"If you have a quality let it define you." |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2009 : 15:13:14
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Thank you, GF! That's high praise.
Let me know if you have questions as you go along, and make sure to let us know your favorite character, scene, color, etc.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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danbuter
Seeker
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2011 : 16:46:00
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| So far, I like the book. I can't believe you used the term "younglings" though. It's a craptacular Star Wars prequel term. What's wrong with the word children? |
Nothing beats the gray box!
Dan |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 15:39:23
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quote:
Originally posted by danbuter
So far, I like the book. I can't believe you used the term "younglings" though. It's a craptacular Star Wars prequel term. What's wrong with the word children?
I haven't researched it, but I think that while SW popularized the term at least in that particular scene, I don't think SW originated it. According to Merriam-Webster, the term dates back to before the 12th century.
Which, granted, is a LONG TIME AGO, though not IN A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Downshadow - Prologue - Chapter 5
