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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 07 May 2010 : 16:19:46
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i was thinking what was the things that realy makes a wizard or sorcere powerful. The spells, number of spells, types, feats, so on ans so forth! My mage has a base DC of 30 and realy bad ass spell. What makes a mag of thge same level more or less powerful. What do you all put into a mage, when building a powerful spellcaster.
Just a fact. I have build mine as a kind of protector of Mystra/ the Weave! So in short; he is an anti evil mage hunter!!!
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2010 : 16:49:58
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| Knowing how to make best use of the spells at his disposal. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2010 : 18:32:45
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I point you again to my character Azan (who is a L24 Sorcerer/Rogue/Arcane Trickster). He's devoted his life to three women: his wife, his queen (the Simbul) and his deity (Selūne).
He has a lot of tricks up his sleeve, but his main weapon of choice is sniping with elemental orbs (Spell Compendium, lesser orbs/regular orbs of chosen energies). With Sneak Attack bonus (and his +11 Initiative modifier), he tries to take out strong opponents quickly (I'd have to check when I get home, but casting Orb of Sound deals about 15d4 + 9d6 Sneak attack damage to his opponent on a ranged touch attack, so on average 69 hp damage on a single shot and the target is deafened on a failed save). With Impromptu Sneak Attack, I can be sure to get a couple of extra sneak attacks per day even if the target's no longer flat-footed.
There's many ways to build powerful mages, however. I once played a Star Elf Illusionist who had high enough DCs on the illusions that many a baddie were fooled. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2010 : 18:38:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
... but casting Orb of Sound deals about 15d4 + 9d6 Sneak attack damage to his opponent on a ranged touch attack...
Now do you roll a d4 15 times and a d6 9 times or do you have 15 4 siders and 9 6 siders and just toss em all simultaneously?? (personally I prefer the mere sight of so many dice hitting the table together ready to be tallied). 
Anyways, your character could be considered to have become a powerful spellcaster through his devotion to his three women I assume? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2010 : 18:47:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
... but casting Orb of Sound deals about 15d4 + 9d6 Sneak attack damage to his opponent on a ranged touch attack...
Now do you roll a d4 15 times and a d6 9 times or do you have 15 4 siders and 9 6 siders and just toss em all simultaneously?? (personally I prefer the mere sight of so many dice hitting the table together ready to be tallied).
Anyways, your character could be considered to have become a powerful spellcaster through his devotion to his three women I assume?
I like lots of dice. 
Although, once we got into epic-level play, a lot of dice-rolling was handled by laptops...
And yes, his devotion is what drove him to become 'powerful'.  |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2010 : 19:09:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
... but casting Orb of Sound deals about 15d4 + 9d6 Sneak attack damage to his opponent on a ranged touch attack...
Now do you roll a d4 15 times and a d6 9 times or do you have 15 4 siders and 9 6 siders and just toss em all simultaneously?? (personally I prefer the mere sight of so many dice hitting the table together ready to be tallied).
Anyways, your character could be considered to have become a powerful spellcaster through his devotion to his three women I assume?
I like lots of dice.
Although, once we got into epic-level play, a lot of dice-rolling was handled by laptops...
And yes, his devotion is what drove him to become 'powerful'.
laptops to roll dice aren't the same as dice to roll dice |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2010 : 21:51:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
<chop>
laptops to roll dice aren't the same as dice to roll dice
I agree... this is why I have more dice than I can count off the top of my head, not including the ones I lost in high school (two full Crown Royal bags worth, sadly; they disappeared out of my locker one day. I have my suspicions, and I'm fairly sure that I know exactly who was responsible, but there was no evidence apart from the fact that this pile of dice that said person was suddenly in possession of looked remarkably like the dice that I had).
Now, nearly 20 years out of high school, I have lots and lots of dice. At a rough estimate, I now have at least 50 complete sets, plus a couple of d30s, the obligatory d100 that I never use, the critical hit location d12 available on paizo.com, a plush d20 that I got for my last birthday (with which my first two rolls were both natural 20s, and both were critical hits (I confirmed both crits with different dice; I have a longstanding habit of using different dice to confirm crits) against the same opponent, who died quickly and graphically in a single round), and a few other specialty dice... so I probably have at least 400 dice. If I ever get bored enough, I'll post my exact dice count, but that's not likely to happen any time soon. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2010 : 22:01:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
... but casting Orb of Sound deals about 15d4 + 9d6 Sneak attack damage to his opponent on a ranged touch attack...
Now do you roll a d4 15 times and a d6 9 times or do you have 15 4 siders and 9 6 siders and just toss em all simultaneously?? (personally I prefer the mere sight of so many dice hitting the table together ready to be tallied).
Anyways, your character could be considered to have become a powerful spellcaster through his devotion to his three women I assume?
I like lots of dice.
Although, once we got into epic-level play, a lot of dice-rolling was handled by laptops...
And yes, his devotion is what drove him to become 'powerful'.
laptops to roll dice aren't the same as dice to roll dice
It's not the same, true. But when you're a 25 level Ranger/Barbarian/Tempest with Boots of Striding and Springing, Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting and Dire Charge and wielding Ary'Velahr'Kerym, it just makes combat easier.  |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2010 : 22:44:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
<chop>
It's not the same, true. But when you're a 25 level Ranger/Barbarian/Tempest with Boots of Striding and Springing, Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting and Dire Charge and wielding Ary'Velahr'Kerym, it just makes combat easier.
I agree... that's similar to the 3.5 rebuild I did of my 2E human ranger who used paired longswords of giant slaying (found at the end of module G1) when my DM took us through Against the Giants. In 2E rules, he had the Berserker kit from the Complete Fighter's Handbook (the Ranger's Handbook took way too long to arrive for his benefit). I'm still working on the Pathfinder conversion; I may wait for the Advanced Player's Guide.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 07 May 2010 22:46:39 |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 03:07:23
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| What makes a mage is a properly chosen school and feats to be more effective for the group. Evocation is cool, but necromancy is pretty useful. I also thoughy yo focus on the transmutation for making difference. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 03:41:48
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| To contribute an on-topic post, I would say that what makes an effective mage is, generally, exactly what Alisttair and Sill Alias describe. Knowing how to use one's magic to its greatest effectiveness is primary, and this is assisted by the player knowing the mechanics and how to use that knowledge to develop the character's potential. I haven't actually played an arcane spellcaster in 3E; my last wizard was an eventually epic-level 1st/2nd edition evoker who was infused with wild magic during the ToT. Wild mages who are also specialist evokers are both great fun and somewhat dangerous to those around them. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 04:17:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
To contribute an on-topic post, I would say that what makes an effective mage is, generally, exactly what Alisttair and Sill Alias describe. Knowing how to use one's magic to its greatest effectiveness is primary, and this is assisted by the player knowing the mechanics and how to use that knowledge to develop the character's potential. I haven't actually played an arcane spellcaster in 3E; my last wizard was an eventually epic-level 1st/2nd edition evoker who was infused with wild magic during the ToT. Wild mages who are also specialist evokers are both great fun and somewhat dangerous to those around them.
Agreed, all the way across. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 04:23:01
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I liked evokers, but the super powerfull spells made it slightly boring. Better try something hard, like illusionist or diviner, or maybe enchanter.
Say, was there a poll on a favourite school of magic? |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Edited by - Sill Alias on 08 May 2010 05:17:00 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 05:33:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
Say, was there a poll on a favourite school of magic?
There was... back in '02 or '03 as I recall. There's probably enough reason to open a new one again, if you so wish. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 05:36:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
I liked evokers, but the super powerfull spells made it slightly boring. Better try something hard, like illusionist or diviner, or maybe enchanter.
Having all of your spells subject to caster-level variance and possible wild surges makes it plenty of fun... sure, your character's 10th level, but if the d20 roll comes up low, that fireball might only deal 2d6 damage. (I don't have my 2E Tome of Magic handy to confirm that a -8 level variation is actually possible at 10th level, but it's an unpleasant surprise all the same.)
Illusionists and enchanters are fun to play too, but I've never believed that diviners are well suited to adventuring. Of course, if anyone has an example to prove me wrong, I'm interested in hearing about it. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 08 May 2010 05:39:32 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 06:25:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
To contribute an on-topic post, I would say that what makes an effective mage is, generally, exactly what Alisttair and Sill Alias describe. Knowing how to use one's magic to its greatest effectiveness is primary, and this is assisted by the player knowing the mechanics and how to use that knowledge to develop the character's potential. I haven't actually played an arcane spellcaster in 3E; my last wizard was an eventually epic-level 1st/2nd edition evoker who was infused with wild magic during the ToT. Wild mages who are also specialist evokers are both great fun and somewhat dangerous to those around them.
Agreed, all the way across.
I agree too, only with the addition that what I think makes a superb wizard/sorcerer or what have you is personality and reputation.
Ensuring that others know you are capable, while not making yourself extremely desirable as a target to an aspiring wizard is important. If you are respected (both by other players, and by NPCs in game) then your character has more freedom to do what they desire to do. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 06:45:06
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| Dalor makes a very good point that I wish I'd caught earlier. My aforementioned wizard didn't really acquire any sort of reputation other than the single adjective "dangerous" (and several synonyms thereof, not all of them fit to print) until he retired to a career as a sage in Waterdeep (and a minor NPC in the campaigns I ran), specializing in the lost elven realms of the North (Eaerlann, Illefarn, Miyeritar, etc.). The idea of not making oneself a target was key for this PC as well, living next door to Khelben, down the street from Iniarv and Larloch, and upstairs from Halaster, as it were. Not that any of those particular four would have posed any threat; several of his former adventuring companions became Harpers who later sided with Khelben in the Harper Schism, and the other three are too immersed in their own plots to pay any attention to anyone who doesn't ask for it. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 08 May 2010 06:47:41 |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 06:46:42
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| But respect and fame can bring troubles. I remember the sample lich from Libris Mortis, a sorcerer of great power, who was bored from having no worthy opponent. When he hears about a new strong wizard or sorcerer, he goes swiftly to his chamber, wherever it is on a faraway land or another plane, with spells blasting to challenge the spellcaster. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 06:51:43
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That scenario is precisely why my PC never challenged for the position of Magister. He probably could have claimed the title easily, but he didn't want to deal with the constant stream of challengers. I could see him setting a trap for that lich in question to lure him into Larloch's clutches; why bother destroying another lich when you can just give him to Larloch and take him out of circulation just as effectively?  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 07:20:34
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| One of the answers of the topic - courage. Only brave wizard will risk his life in a battle or creating a new spell or artifact. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 14:21:21
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slaps down ruler upon desk.
SILENCE.
so you want to know about what makes a mage?
well that's simple; its pay attention to what you master tells you. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 16:33:54
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The greatest mage in history once said:
True power is not knowing when to cast spells, but knowing when not to!
And do you know what... I agree! |
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What makes a mage!
