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 Rashemi Male with a knack for the arcane, choices?
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prototype00
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19 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2017 :  14:29:15  Show Profile  Visit prototype00's Homepage  Send prototype00 an AOL message  Send prototype00 a Yahoo! Message Send prototype00 a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So I'm planning the backstory for a Rashemi character I was planing on playing and came up with of a lore conundrum.

So say a Rashemi youth is on his Dajemma (how old are they when they do this by the way? Teens? 17-20?), lets say his Mother was a member of the Owlbear lodge, and he was raised a proud Barbarian warrior with a penchant for grappling, as you do from this particular lodge.

Then, part-way through his Dajemma his arcane talent manifests itself! Maybe he had a sorcerous bloodline (descended from fey creatures or whatnot), or maybe he had a knack for it (a Great-grandsire who was one of the old ones, perhaps).

What are his options...?

Can he (in no particular order):

1. Continue on his Dajemma and develop his arcane talents, after all it isn't specifically the Vreymonni trained secrets he is showing here. Would he be allowed to return to Rashemen, an accomplished Spell-Sword? What would the Hathrans say?

2. Return to Rashemen and just go back to the lodge of his Mother? Become a Barbarian berserker with a few tricks up his sleeves?

3. Join the Vreymonni (and enter a life of seclusion)?

4. Other choices? Not return to Rashemen maybe (how many kids on their Dajemma do that?)

Thanks for the lore-answers.

Oh, bonus question! Do the Vreymonni have families? Can they take a wife and have kids? Are the families secluded with them, or are they secluded from their families? (Seems rather cruel, if that is the case).

Cheers1

prototype00

Edited by - prototype00 on 09 Oct 2017 14:50:30

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5983 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2017 :  21:37:22  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by prototype00

So I'm planning the backstory for a Rashemi character I was planing on playing and came up with of a lore conundrum.

So say a Rashemi youth is on his Dajemma (how old are they when they do this by the way? Teens? 17-20?), lets say his Mother was a member of the Owlbear lodge, and he was raised a proud Barbarian warrior with a penchant for grappling, as you do from this particular lodge.

Then, part-way through his Dajemma his arcane talent manifests itself! Maybe he had a sorcerous bloodline (descended from fey creatures or whatnot), or maybe he had a knack for it (a Great-grandsire who was one of the old ones, perhaps).

What are his options...?

Can he (in no particular order):

1. Continue on his Dajemma and develop his arcane talents, after all it isn't specifically the Vreymonni trained secrets he is showing here. Would he be allowed to return to Rashemen, an accomplished Spell-Sword? What would the Hathrans say?

2. Return to Rashemen and just go back to the lodge of his Mother? Become a Barbarian berserker with a few tricks up his sleeves?

3. Join the Vreymonni (and enter a life of seclusion)?

4. Other choices? Not return to Rashemen maybe (how many kids on their Dajemma do that?)

Thanks for the lore-answers.

Oh, bonus question! Do the Vreymonni have families? Can they take a wife and have kids? Are the families secluded with them, or are they secluded from their families? (Seems rather cruel, if that is the case).

Cheers1

prototype00



Interesting questions. One thing I will say is that while I love Rashemen, I fully believe that many folks don't have a really good picture of the Rashemi Witches in their heads. Basically, the witches are very similar to the red wizards in some ways. They do NOT brook a challenge to their rulership. Witches are to be obeyed without question, and those who don't can expect to be whipped or killed.

Also bear this in mind from Spellbound, page 79

Known to few save the witches, the Running Rocks harbor secret strongholds inhabited by the vremyonni, whose researches provide the witches with new spells and magical items. The handful of male Rashemaar who prove to have magical ability are taken here, where they
serve the ancient wizards as apprentices and take the places of those who finally die.


So, these vremyonni are known to few save the witches. The vremyonni as a result are not known to many inside of Rashemen. The witches take children off for testing... and the boys don't return unless they accept exile. There's probably whispered rumors amongst the populace about what happens to male children who exhibit magical capability. Some may believe that they are stripped of their magic, and they may be correct. Some may wonder if these children are killed, and again, they may be right. Some male children who show a tendency towards magic may be encouraged towards a life of a bard/skald if they won't become vremyonni.
On your idea of a Rashemi youth on Dajemma who suddenly discovers he is a sorcerer, bear in mind this

All Rashemaar younglings are tested for the ability to work magic. The rare males who can work magic are taken to secret holds in the remotest clefts of the Running Rocks and trained by the vremyonni, or #147;Old Ones#148; (ancient male wizards, kept alive for eons by longevity magic), to be researchers of new spells and crafters of magical items (usually rings, wands, and whips) for the use of the witches.

So, the obvious question becomes "why didn't they discover his latent sorcerous talent?". If there was any nefariousness to this (i.e. his parents hid him or his talent), he may be endangering his family when he returns as the witches may deem them needing to be punished to prevent others attempting similar. Of course, perhaps he had some kind of magic item on his person that blocked the detection magic (he may not have even known he had it).

If he did return, I would fully expect the witches to insist that he either
A) leave or accept death
B) sequester himself for training as a vremyonni
C) submit to a ritual which drains his magical talent and transfers it into a young female
D) allow his consciousness to be absorbed into a magic item
or possibly even
E) submit to being changed into a female via a girdle of femininity/masculinity and accept a geas to never try to reverse this effect. This would probably also involve some memory modification as well.


This all being said, I propose to you a "little known" (i.e. homebrew) piece of vremyonni lore. You have a bunch of "hermits" all living in the running rocks studying magic. What if this is because there's something to protect in the running rocks? What if there's an entrance to the underdark beneath Rashemen that connects to the running rocks, and the vremyonni are responsible for patrolling this area.

The above options would be if he came back as a sorcerer or wizard. If he came back as a warlock, I'd imagine they'd likely kill him, even if it were a fey patron because they simply can't trust him to be devoted to them.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 09 Oct 2017 21:57:44
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1478 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2017 :  00:35:21  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas


Also bear this in mind from Spellbound, page 79

Known to few save the witches, the Running Rocks harbor secret strongholds inhabited by the vremyonni, whose researches provide the witches with new spells and magical items. The handful of male Rashemaar who prove to have magical ability are taken here, where they
serve the ancient wizards as apprentices and take the places of those who finally die.


So, these vremyonni are known to few save the witches.

No, it only says that the specific location is "known to few save the witches".

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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prototype00
Seeker

19 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2017 :  00:39:17  Show Profile  Visit prototype00's Homepage  Send prototype00 an AOL message  Send prototype00 a Yahoo! Message Send prototype00 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by prototype00

So I'm planning the backstory for a Rashemi character I was planing on playing and came up with of a lore conundrum.

So say a Rashemi youth is on his Dajemma (how old are they when they do this by the way? Teens? 17-20?), lets say his Mother was a member of the Owlbear lodge, and he was raised a proud Barbarian warrior with a penchant for grappling, as you do from this particular lodge.

Then, part-way through his Dajemma his arcane talent manifests itself! Maybe he had a sorcerous bloodline (descended from fey creatures or whatnot), or maybe he had a knack for it (a Great-grandsire who was one of the old ones, perhaps).

What are his options...?

Can he (in no particular order):

1. Continue on his Dajemma and develop his arcane talents, after all it isn't specifically the Vreymonni trained secrets he is showing here. Would he be allowed to return to Rashemen, an accomplished Spell-Sword? What would the Hathrans say?

2. Return to Rashemen and just go back to the lodge of his Mother? Become a Barbarian berserker with a few tricks up his sleeves?

3. Join the Vreymonni (and enter a life of seclusion)?

4. Other choices? Not return to Rashemen maybe (how many kids on their Dajemma do that?)

Thanks for the lore-answers.

Oh, bonus question! Do the Vreymonni have families? Can they take a wife and have kids? Are the families secluded with them, or are they secluded from their families? (Seems rather cruel, if that is the case).

Cheers1

prototype00



Interesting questions. One thing I will say is that while I love Rashemen, I fully believe that many folks don't have a really good picture of the Rashemi Witches in their heads. Basically, the witches are very similar to the red wizards in some ways. They do NOT brook a challenge to their rulership. Witches are to be obeyed without question, and those who don't can expect to be whipped or killed.

Also bear this in mind from Spellbound, page 79

Known to few save the witches, the Running Rocks harbor secret strongholds inhabited by the vremyonni, whose researches provide the witches with new spells and magical items. The handful of male Rashemaar who prove to have magical ability are taken here, where they
serve the ancient wizards as apprentices and take the places of those who finally die.


So, these vremyonni are known to few save the witches. The vremyonni as a result are not known to many inside of Rashemen. The witches take children off for testing... and the boys don't return unless they accept exile. There's probably whispered rumors amongst the populace about what happens to male children who exhibit magical capability. Some may believe that they are stripped of their magic, and they may be correct. Some may wonder if these children are killed, and again, they may be right. Some male children who show a tendency towards magic may be encouraged towards a life of a bard/skald if they won't become vremyonni.
On your idea of a Rashemi youth on Dajemma who suddenly discovers he is a sorcerer, bear in mind this

All Rashemaar younglings are tested for the ability to work magic. The rare males who can work magic are taken to secret holds in the remotest clefts of the Running Rocks and trained by the vremyonni, or #147;Old Ones#148; (ancient male wizards, kept alive for eons by longevity magic), to be researchers of new spells and crafters of magical items (usually rings, wands, and whips) for the use of the witches.

So, the obvious question becomes "why didn't they discover his latent sorcerous talent?". If there was any nefariousness to this (i.e. his parents hid him or his talent), he may be endangering his family when he returns as the witches may deem them needing to be punished to prevent others attempting similar. Of course, perhaps he had some kind of magic item on his person that blocked the detection magic (he may not have even known he had it).

If he did return, I would fully expect the witches to insist that he either
A) leave or accept death
B) sequester himself for training as a vremyonni
C) submit to a ritual which drains his magical talent and transfers it into a young female
D) allow his consciousness to be absorbed into a magic item
or possibly even
E) submit to being changed into a female via a girdle of femininity/masculinity and accept a geas to never try to reverse this effect. This would probably also involve some memory modification as well.


This all being said, I propose to you a "little known" (i.e. homebrew) piece of vremyonni lore. You have a bunch of "hermits" all living in the running rocks studying magic. What if this is because there's something to protect in the running rocks? What if there's an entrance to the underdark beneath Rashemen that connects to the running rocks, and the vremyonni are responsible for patrolling this area.

The above options would be if he came back as a sorcerer or wizard. If he came back as a warlock, I'd imagine they'd likely kill him, even if it were a fey patron because they simply can't trust him to be devoted to them.




Thanks for the answer, a harsh law for a harsh land indeed.

So I take it from what you wrote that Skalds are the exception to the arcane magic = Vreymonni training, death or exile? (Is it considered shameful to accept exile under these circumstances? Or to go on a Dajemma and never return?)

Just a stray thought, from what you've said is this some concerted effort on the part of the Hathrans to breed out arcane talent from male-folk? (Possibly because of their experience with the Red Wizards or societal taboos?)

If the Vreymonni live lives of seclusion and then die without coming into contact with anyone else or forming families, then male-origin magical talent might indeed be on it's way out in Rashemen (it is said to be "rare" after all).

If so, it might make Rashemen one of the most structured/constructed society in the Realms.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14187 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2017 :  04:19:06  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The idea I get about their 'family ties' is like what we see with the men who "Take the Black" in GoT - the Night's Watch (and I suppose, they serve a very similar purpose - protect the lands from outside threats). So basically, I am picturing a rather monastic lifestyle, with most family-ties cut. Relationships are potential weaknesses.

As for taking him back - my thoughts on that would be he would be made a leader of a military unit, because of his unique set of skills. The Rashemi look at people as a resource, and they wouldn't waste someone with martial skills by sticking them in a purely intellectual endeavor. As for killing someone out-right just because they have a fey-patron, I'd leave that up to a DM to decide. To me, that actually fits in well with the Witches way of thinking (so every DM will have a different opinion). Other patrons, not so much (especially fiendish ones... that WOULD be an instant death).

They allowed a DROW to join their ranks... they aren't as 'unwavering' as you might think. Anything that may prove useful in their ongoing war with Thay they would harness. Of course, that war has probably been over for some hundred years now.


EDIT:
And I've always felt the whole paradigm there smelled a lot like how the 'witches' (sisters) in Wheel of Time treat men with power. Maybe not as bad, but its a similar vibe. It kind of makes me not like the Hathran much.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 10 Oct 2017 17:26:04
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prototype00
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19 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2017 :  08:12:53  Show Profile  Visit prototype00's Homepage  Send prototype00 an AOL message  Send prototype00 a Yahoo! Message Send prototype00 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sounds like there is a novel there, the counterpart to Daughter of the Drow. “Son of Rashemen” or some such. Get on it Wizards!
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe

Czech Republic
426 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2017 :  12:44:48  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There might be a solution in what was said above. You could say that he was found magicaly active in his teens and decided not to join Vremyonni and go to exile. This could have been explained as leaving for his Dajemma (and never to return as many).
Anyhow it sounds like a great concept for character backstory :-)
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Starshade
Learned Scribe

Norway
143 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2017 :  18:39:09  Show Profile Send Starshade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My thought:
Spellbound might be obsolete, on exacly this topic. Were there even classes in 2E D&D where someone not trained by a mentor gained Sorcerer 3E casting? The part on the witches reaction to male sorcerer might be different since it did not exist in 2E.

Primarily: Imagine the view of a male rashemen. For a man, it's bad, really bad. If he knows nothing of the male spellasting tradition, he thinks it's wery bad, probably expects execution if caught, and have a choice; to find it immoral, and himself a bad person. Or to consider the witches actions immoral.


Edited by - Starshade on 10 Oct 2017 19:19:02
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5983 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2017 :  18:43:20  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by prototype00

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by prototype00

So I'm planning the backstory for a Rashemi character I was planing on playing and came up with of a lore conundrum.

So say a Rashemi youth is on his Dajemma (how old are they when they do this by the way? Teens? 17-20?), lets say his Mother was a member of the Owlbear lodge, and he was raised a proud Barbarian warrior with a penchant for grappling, as you do from this particular lodge.

Then, part-way through his Dajemma his arcane talent manifests itself! Maybe he had a sorcerous bloodline (descended from fey creatures or whatnot), or maybe he had a knack for it (a Great-grandsire who was one of the old ones, perhaps).

What are his options...?

Can he (in no particular order):

1. Continue on his Dajemma and develop his arcane talents, after all it isn't specifically the Vreymonni trained secrets he is showing here. Would he be allowed to return to Rashemen, an accomplished Spell-Sword? What would the Hathrans say?

2. Return to Rashemen and just go back to the lodge of his Mother? Become a Barbarian berserker with a few tricks up his sleeves?

3. Join the Vreymonni (and enter a life of seclusion)?

4. Other choices? Not return to Rashemen maybe (how many kids on their Dajemma do that?)

Thanks for the lore-answers.

Oh, bonus question! Do the Vreymonni have families? Can they take a wife and have kids? Are the families secluded with them, or are they secluded from their families? (Seems rather cruel, if that is the case).

Cheers1

prototype00



Interesting questions. One thing I will say is that while I love Rashemen, I fully believe that many folks don't have a really good picture of the Rashemi Witches in their heads. Basically, the witches are very similar to the red wizards in some ways. They do NOT brook a challenge to their rulership. Witches are to be obeyed without question, and those who don't can expect to be whipped or killed.

Also bear this in mind from Spellbound, page 79

Known to few save the witches, the Running Rocks harbor secret strongholds inhabited by the vremyonni, whose researches provide the witches with new spells and magical items. The handful of male Rashemaar who prove to have magical ability are taken here, where they
serve the ancient wizards as apprentices and take the places of those who finally die.


So, these vremyonni are known to few save the witches. The vremyonni as a result are not known to many inside of Rashemen. The witches take children off for testing... and the boys don't return unless they accept exile. There's probably whispered rumors amongst the populace about what happens to male children who exhibit magical capability. Some may believe that they are stripped of their magic, and they may be correct. Some may wonder if these children are killed, and again, they may be right. Some male children who show a tendency towards magic may be encouraged towards a life of a bard/skald if they won't become vremyonni.
On your idea of a Rashemi youth on Dajemma who suddenly discovers he is a sorcerer, bear in mind this

All Rashemaar younglings are tested for the ability to work magic. The rare males who can work magic are taken to secret holds in the remotest clefts of the Running Rocks and trained by the vremyonni, or #147;Old Ones#148; (ancient male wizards, kept alive for eons by longevity magic), to be researchers of new spells and crafters of magical items (usually rings, wands, and whips) for the use of the witches.

So, the obvious question becomes "why didn't they discover his latent sorcerous talent?". If there was any nefariousness to this (i.e. his parents hid him or his talent), he may be endangering his family when he returns as the witches may deem them needing to be punished to prevent others attempting similar. Of course, perhaps he had some kind of magic item on his person that blocked the detection magic (he may not have even known he had it).

If he did return, I would fully expect the witches to insist that he either
A) leave or accept death
B) sequester himself for training as a vremyonni
C) submit to a ritual which drains his magical talent and transfers it into a young female
D) allow his consciousness to be absorbed into a magic item
or possibly even
E) submit to being changed into a female via a girdle of femininity/masculinity and accept a geas to never try to reverse this effect. This would probably also involve some memory modification as well.


This all being said, I propose to you a "little known" (i.e. homebrew) piece of vremyonni lore. You have a bunch of "hermits" all living in the running rocks studying magic. What if this is because there's something to protect in the running rocks? What if there's an entrance to the underdark beneath Rashemen that connects to the running rocks, and the vremyonni are responsible for patrolling this area.

The above options would be if he came back as a sorcerer or wizard. If he came back as a warlock, I'd imagine they'd likely kill him, even if it were a fey patron because they simply can't trust him to be devoted to them.




Thanks for the answer, a harsh law for a harsh land indeed.

So I take it from what you wrote that Skalds are the exception to the arcane magic = Vreymonni training, death or exile? (Is it considered shameful to accept exile under these circumstances? Or to go on a Dajemma and never return?)

Just a stray thought, from what you've said is this some concerted effort on the part of the Hathrans to breed out arcane talent from male-folk? (Possibly because of their experience with the Red Wizards or societal taboos?)

If the Vreymonni live lives of seclusion and then die without coming into contact with anyone else or forming families, then male-origin magical talent might indeed be on it's way out in Rashemen (it is said to be "rare" after all).

If so, it might make Rashemen one of the most structured/constructed society in the Realms.



My thoughts on this go back to Raumathar. The Raumathari produced battlemages who focused on combining magic and swordcraft. Its my belief that this society was very Patriarchal, but as they neared the end the men who were mages died out. The sisterhood of witches formed to preserve their magical knowledge and culture, but they also blamed the Patriarchy for the reason that their society failed. Within this culture, they started teaching women, and treating men as physical subjects only. Personally, I think there are way more wizards in the world over sorcerers, and thus this lack of education is what truly discourages male spellcasters in their society. The few male spellcasters they allow must be submissive.

This is where my homebrew version of the vremyonni come into play. Some males may be allowed to be battlemages, but they're encouraged to protect Rashemen by patrolling the upperdark. Thus, many of these vremyonni end up dying. I recommend checking out my vremyonni in the complete red book of spell strategy on the dm's guild if you're playing 5e (and if not, it can adapt to say 3.5).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Starshade
Learned Scribe

Norway
143 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2017 :  19:50:46  Show Profile Send Starshade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tbh I think this is taken from norse culture of real life Scandinavia. "Seid", divination Magic, and some forms of Magic (a bit vague) were "unmanly", and seen as unfit men. The "Seid" is known to use singing, same style as Skalds of the norse, and their Galrd songs of Magic.
Where I want with this? There is tales of Norse vikings doing the "unmanly" Seid Magic. The person i tink of was part Saami, so likely a Saami Shaman/Noaide, not trained in Norse Seid, but still; men have done "forbidden Magic" in real life, and both tolerated (though seen as "ergi", queer), and sometimes not tolerated.

For D&D: the historical "unmanly divinators" were tolerated when they were useful, anyone wants a real, effective magician around when they delivers on their promises, but when not... I'd assume some Rashemen Witches might find a male spellcaster useful, especially if he can hide his abilities from other witches, namely the Durthan, the evil witches of Rashemen who number Hags and non-humans among them (presumably female nonhumans, as infernal and demons). Think a "Secret agent", disposable if found, and all Wychlaran would deny knowing him if he'd been found by their enemies, etc.

Edited by - Starshade on 10 Oct 2017 19:52:19
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5983 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2017 :  21:15:42  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

The idea I get about their 'family ties' is like what we see with the men who "Take the Black" in GoT - the Night's Watch (and I suppose, they serve a very similar purpose - protect the lands from outside threats). So basically, I am picturing a rather monastic lifestyle, with most family-ties cut. Relationships are potential weaknesses.



Never thought about it in these terms, but yes, very much like the night's watch (especially in my homebrew). That being said, many young Ethran and Blethran receive training from the vremyonni. I'd imagine that this leads to these men developing strong emotional bonds to the witches. They probably also have sexual relations with them in their youth. It may even be that many vremyonni do have children, and the witches bring them to "meet their fathers" in secret (and thus these children of the witches are some of the "few save the witches" who know about the running rocks). Some witches may even choose to live out at the running rocks and raise their children there, especially if the children are male children. Thus, many future vremyonni may have been raised from birth amongst the vremyonni. Given that these vremyonni live to spectacularly old ages, these children would probably be doted upon and given amazing educations, and have been brought up in a lifestyle possibly much more like Raumathar (with debates and discussions about magical theory) than the rest of Rashemen is. The males raised here are probably much more enlightened and less "feral" than the rest of the Rashemi.

Given that they don't truly become what are considered true vremyonni until about 15th level (and usually when they are in their 70's), but they are noted to have amazing longevity.... I will posit that the vremyonni are not considered "true vremyonni" until they make a clone of themselves that is younger. In fact, it may be that the vremyonni were the first to develop the "modern" version of the clone spell that can make a younger version of themselves. Given their studies of "constructs" of all sorts, this may be their ultimate test.

The question becomes, what is so special about the running rocks? I said earlier that possibly it connects to the underdark. I've also made notes in my complete red book of spell strategy that possibly they guard and protect "The Hidden One" (and that this entity is NOT Mystra). However, as we talk about clones... could the witches have clones that they keep here, under the guard of the vremyonni? Is there some secret of the telthors in the running rocks?


One of the things I had also posited in my complete red book of spell strategy was that the vremyonni (and only vremyonni, its a class ability for their arcane tradition) learn a new ritual which explains their fascination with "constructs" in a new way.


The ritual below is not specific to any one class' spell list. They are learned via feats or class abilities that open you to specific regional types of spellcasters and how they learn their magic (see the complete red book of spell strategy on DM's Guild for details of the vremyonni alternate arcane tradition in 5e). As a result, these spells cannot be learned by outsiders unless they somehow obtain the appropriate feats, class abilities, or through DM adjudication.

Bind Vremyonni Telthor Construct Familiar
1st-level enchantment (ritual)
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: 10 feet
Components: V,S,M (10 gp worth of charcoal, incense, and herbs that must be consumed by fire in a brass brazier. Also, the caster must have something that belonged to the Telthor Spirit that he is attempting to bind. Also, there must be the item that the Telthor spirit will be bound to. Also, note the special note about hit dice. Only the charcoal, incense, and herbs are lost during this casting)
Duration: Instantaneous

This spell works similar to the spell find familiar, and the character cannot use this spell and find familiar at the same time. There are some important differences though. The main one is that casting this spell requires the spellcaster to give some of their essence to the land. This takes the form of the character expending one of its hit dice for the day. Next, the standard find familiar spell summons the spirts of a celestial, fey, or fiend that is of a selection of certain small beast types that the caster can choose. The find familiar spirit takes on corporeal form. Bind Vremyonni Telthor Construct Familiar spell does not create this corporeal form and thus this spell requires you to provide an item of special construction (essentially, the item should have been one that once held some kind of elemental, fey, or plant spirit). Also, Bind Vremyonni Telthor Construct Familiar summons a special otherworldly fey spirit known as a Telthor (see new monsters) to inhabit the item. Most Telthor spirits are simple animals, but the Vremyonni specifically call upon humanoid spirits with this spell (mostly humans from the Raumathar Empire or the country of Rashemen) that were turned into Telthor upon their death.

The spirit drawn can be coerced into inhabiting a non-magical simple or martial one-handed melee weapon if said melee weapon is composed of some materials that were formerly of elemental, fey, or living plant origin (it should be noted here that the Vremyonni over the last century have taken to secretly mining ironfell from the body of Telos in Vaasa for just this express purpose and have had interesting results in their experimentation). The cost of a simple weapon made of these materials is typically 10 times the cost of a normal weapon of similar make (so a war pick or trident is 50 gp, a battle axe, flail, or shortsword is 100 gp, a longsword, morningstar, or warhammer is 150 gp, and a rapier or scimitar is 250 gp). Silvering the weapon costs the normal 100 gp extra.

This weapon inhabited by the familiar is treated as an animated object similar to a Flying Sword (and exactly like a flying sword if your weapon is a longsword). See the monster manual entry for animated objects for statistics. The weapon also takes on the intelligence, wisdom, and charisma characteristics of the Telthor Spirit inhabiting it (choose a 16, 13, and 11 and allow the caster to determine to which it applies). Typically, higher intelligence Telthors are former Eldritch Knights or wizards, higher wisdom ones are clerical or druid Hathrans or male paladins or rangers, and higher charisma ones are former bards, sorcerers, paladins, rogues, or occasionally fey or spirit shaman pact warlocks. Take this into account if roleplaying this familiar.

The type of weapon can also change its other statistics as follows from that of a Flying Sword.

Trident, damage is 1d6+1 piercing

Battle Axe, is treated exactly the same as a Flying Sword

Flail & Warhammer, simply change the damage type to bludgeoning

Morningstar & Warpick, simply change the damage type to piercing

Shortsword/Scimitar/Rapier – change to +4 to hit, but only 1d6+1 slashing damage

All rules about familiar's apply, except that it can attack, and when the familiar is dismissed it leaves behind the weapon that it had animated. If the familiar drops to 0 hit points, the weapon is destroyed and cannot be reused by a newly summoned familiar (unless of course the weapon is mended with a mending cantrip or similar). Since the familiar's “body” is just a non-magical item, it can be repaired of damage through castings of the mending cantrip (repairing 1d4 hit points of damage per casting).

At Higher Levels. As you cast this spell at higher and higher levels, it requires the spellcaster to sacrifice more of his essence to the land in order to call a more powerful telthor spirit. Mechanically, this means the character must expend hit dice equal to the spell slot level used in order to cast this spell (so casting it as a 5th level spell requires the expenditure of 5 hit dice). Hit dice expended are regained after a long rest as usual.

When you cast this ritual using a spell slot of 2nd level the weapon can be a non-magical simple or martial Heavy, two-handed melee weapon. In addition, the strength of the telthor increases from 12 to 14. This makes the changes the following from that of a Flying Sword

Glaive & Halberd, +4 to hit, 1d10+2 slashing, plus having reach

Greataxe +4 to hit, 1d12+2 slashing

Greatsword +4 to hit, 2d6+2 slashing

Maul +4 to hit, 2d6+2 bludgeoning

Pike +4 to hit, 1d10+2 piercing, plus having reach

When you cast this ritual using a spell slot of 3rd level the “weapon” can actually be a combination of two devices working in concert.
First would be a non-magical one-handed martial weapon like that made at first level. The second could either be a non-magical light one-handed martial weapon (i.e. shortsword, scimitar, etc...) OR a non-magical shield instead (giving a constant +2 shield bonus to the spellcaster's AC).

When you cast this ritual using a spell slot of 4th level you have learned enough to give the telthor much more control over that which it possesses.
You can have the telthor possess a suit of non-magical plate armor instead, becoming effectively Animated Armor (see animated objects in the monster manual), which you may arm with whatever weapon or shield that you like (even magical ones), such that you can modify its statistics accordingly.

When you cast this ritual using a spell slot of 5th level, change the Animated Armor's Strength from 14 to 16 (giving an additional +1 to hit and damage) and its Constitution from 13 to 14 (raising its hit points to 39).

When you cast this ritual using a spell slot of 6th level, the suit of armor animated becomes the equivalent of a Helmed Horror. The armor must be non-magical still, but the weapon and/or shield used by the Helmed Horror may be whatever you supply it. You may also choose the spells that it is immune to.

When you cast this ritual using a spell slot of 7th level, the Helmed Horror gains the use of one of your damaging cantrips, and when it uses its action to cast this cantrip, it may make one weapon attack as a bonus action (similar to the war magic feature of the eldritch knight).

When you cast this ritual using a spell slot of 8th level, it gains all previous features from the 7th level version, plus it learns a second damaging cantrip and its strength increases to 20 and constitution increases to 18.

When you cast this ritual using a spell slot of 9th level, it gains all previous features from the 7th & 8th level version, plus it gains the ability to cast Magic Missile and Chromatic Orb up to 3 times per day (as if cast using a 4th level spell slot).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 10 Oct 2017 21:18:13
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prototype00
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Posted - 11 Oct 2017 :  01:39:51  Show Profile  Visit prototype00's Homepage  Send prototype00 an AOL message  Send prototype00 a Yahoo! Message Send prototype00 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It also strikes me that a Vreymonni might make a very good infiltrator outside of Rashemen. After all no other culture would expect a Male Rashemi in his mould as opposed to a frothing berserker.

Edited by - prototype00 on 11 Oct 2017 02:01:11
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prototype00
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Posted - 11 Oct 2017 :  02:24:50  Show Profile  Visit prototype00's Homepage  Send prototype00 an AOL message  Send prototype00 a Yahoo! Message Send prototype00 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sleyvas, that writeup is phenomenal, I didn’t know that the Vreymonni were enchanters to that extent (actually I know much less than I would like about the pre Rashemi empire than I would like, the Rauthamari and their battlemages, any tips for good reading in this subject?
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sleyvas
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Posted - 11 Oct 2017 :  13:25:10  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by prototype00

Sleyvas, that writeup is phenomenal, I didn’t know that the Vreymonni were enchanters to that extent (actually I know much less than I would like about the pre Rashemi empire than I would like, the Rauthamari and their battlemages, any tips for good reading in this subject?



The vremyonni are specifically noted as creators of magical weapons, armor, and constructs, as well as any other magic items needed by the witches. The witches on the other hand are not allowed to perform item creation. On the Raumathari and vremyonni, the main sources are Spellbound, Unapproachable East, and the Masked Witches. You will also find several topics in these forums discussing the way many of us, including the developers, view Raumathar. One of the big things I had noted say 20+ years ago was that Raumathar had a fascination with iron, and I fed that into the culture in having them having wizards with armor. In fact, I think my short stories actually coined the term Raumathari Battlemage, which went a little different direction than I would have taken it, but I still enjoy.

I will note that the portrayal of the vremyonni in the Masked Witches shows them as construct creators, but they're using "gadgety" types of constructs. This is where my homebrew version varies. I figure if their focus is on creating magic arms and armor and constructs that they'd be tied together (i.e. magic armor that is a construct like a animated weapon, suit of armor, helmed horror, etc...). I also figured that if anyone was going to mix "spirits" and "constructs", that it would be the vremyonni. Not that I don't see them also developing these "weird" constructs that look like something from robot wars, I just don't see them as prevalent (and nothing against R.L. Beyers, he was sticking with the canon as written, which doesn't give a lot of detail). I will also note that in my homebrew not all vremyonni take the vremyonni "arcane tradition"... and I also introduced a feat to allow a spellcaster to pursue more than one arcane tradition (again in my complete red book of spell strategy.... I feel like I'm plugging this, but honestly it has a lot of what I feel are good ideas for mechanics). Its also my feeling that in 5e, many vremyonni are also classes like eldritch knight, and in the aforementioned DM's Guild book I have some feats for mixing wizard and eldritch knight better.

BTW, I know that that ritual is a long read. The two main points are that it isn't on any class list, so the only way to learn the ritual is to take the vremyonni arcane tradition. I think this makes for a good mechanic and might make for a good way for introducing similar things like rituals or spells for special groups (like the red wizard circle, rashemi circles, Halruaan circles, Chosen-only spells, Arcane Hierophants, Durthans, Raumathari Battlemages, Narfellian Dembonbinders, etc...). It doesn't have to be the arcane tradition and might be some other ability being replaced in a class, etc... or could even be tied to a feat. For instance, if someone introduced a warlock whose ties are to a powerful vampiric patron using the new pact from the SCAG, maybe they gain access to some blood-based spells, and those same spells might be available to certain sorcerers, necromancers, clerics with the death domain, or oathbreaker paladins that serve certain deities with some mechanic.

The second part that I'm particularly fond of is this which limits how many times a day it can be used (even though it is a ritual). Making it a ritual means they don't have to put it as a memorized spell, but if they say are 17th level, they can only cast it once as an 8th lvl and a 9th lvl version in the same day. In fact, if this mechanic of using hit dice becomes more prominent, it could be useful to someone to develop a feat that say lets them complete actions using less hit dice (say half the hit dice rounded down). Similarly, there could be some "class abilities" or "feats" which let someone actually regain some daily hit die after a short rest a certain number of times a day

As you cast this spell at higher and higher levels, it requires the spellcaster to sacrifice more of his essence to the land in order to call a more powerful telthor spirit. Mechanically, this means the character must expend hit dice equal to the spell slot level used in order to cast this spell (so casting it as a 5th level spell requires the expenditure of 5 hit dice). Hit dice expended are regained after a long rest as usual.



Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
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Posted - 11 Oct 2017 :  13:36:06  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, and on the concept of some witches staying with the vremyonni and raising children amongst them, I'd imagine that many of the more clerical/druidic ones are the ones allowed to stay with the vremyonni. After all, just because they're magically oriented doesn't mean they don't have spiritual needs or the needs of a healer. Similarly the idea that many vremyonni may be encouraged towards eldritch knight... yes, they may have constructs, but they will likely occasionally need a tank to help defend against threats.

Again, none of this piece is canon. However, it makes sense (at least to me), that the vremyonni are something more than just loners hidden away, and quite possibly the best way for the witches to secure their loyalty is through an emotional bond by providing some semblance of family. It should be noted that unlike the members of the Night's Watch, the majority of the vremyonni haven't done anything disgraceful, and so treating them as lepers or outcasts of society would breed resentment. However, teaching them that they are honored citizens who shouldn't have to waste their lives amongst the less enlightened populace helps them understand "their true calling". In this way, the witches serve as the lynchpin between the two groups, which also secures their status as the true rulers of Rashemen.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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prototype00
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Posted - 13 Oct 2017 :  15:49:31  Show Profile  Visit prototype00's Homepage  Send prototype00 an AOL message  Send prototype00 a Yahoo! Message Send prototype00 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just skimmed the Red Book and its a good resource, and full of relevant stuff about the Vremyonni.

I had a question about how you (Sleyvas) felt about Arcane Trickster Rogues? As far as Vreymonni Training (the background) goes, they do not qualify for it (neither do Eldritch Knight Fighters). How are these males who develop magical talent later in life treated? (I mean, are the divination rituals of the Wychlaran 100% effective?)
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sleyvas
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Posted - 13 Oct 2017 :  18:20:30  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by prototype00

Just skimmed the Red Book and its a good resource, and full of relevant stuff about the Vremyonni.

I had a question about how you (Sleyvas) felt about Arcane Trickster Rogues? As far as Vreymonni Training (the background) goes, they do not qualify for it (neither do Eldritch Knight Fighters). How are these males who develop magical talent later in life treated? (I mean, are the divination rituals of the Wychlaran 100% effective?)



My viewpoint on eldritch knights and arcane tricksters that might be sent to the vremyonni would be one in which IF they were to take the vremyonni apprentice background, they would be encouraged/forced to take a level of say wizard first AND encouraged/forced to take the Raumathari Battlemage feat or Ultimate Arcane Trickster feat (from my complete red book of spell strategy, speaking of that, ). If they didn't take that first (or at all), then they are not true vremyonni apprentices, but they could take some other similar background (such as hermit or sage) to simulate being cloistered amongst the running rocks.

For those who would like to JUST be eldritch knights or arcane tricksters without taking the aforementioned feats and multi-classing, I would personally still feel that the witches would still send them to the vremyonni. That being said, the eldritch knights would probably accept that... and the arcane tricksters would probably be a problem as I don't see pure rogues accepting the vremyonni culture. Thus, I see most arcane tricksters as accepting exile in the form of working as spies for the witches in remote territory (thus, they may be allowed to visit their families that they've left behind still, but when they came home they would be "watched", and more than likely such stays would not be extended and if they used magic ... they might incur the wrath of the witches).

As I said earlier, one of the things I see is that a lot of things were written up without some deeper thought put into them throughout the realms. This conversation has helped flesh some of that out. For instance, the idea that there's probably priestly witches living in the running rocks with the vremyonni raising families makes sense, as the vremyonni will still need healers and priestly guidance. Also, these witches would also serve the purpose of making sure that the vremyonni continue to serve the witches, and thus any perceived insubordination would be squashed. The idea that some arcane practictioners would only barely delve their skills and focus mainly on the more masculine fighting is very understandable, and I see them being accepted in the society, but treated as underlings who need guidance by their wizard elite. In fact, there may be just as many eldritch knights (and many of which would pursue the Raumathari Battlemage path) living amongst the vremyonni as there are standard wizards. This is definitely a break from the canon description we're given, but given their culture and that of ancient Raumathar, it makes sense.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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prototype00
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Posted - 14 Oct 2017 :  05:23:59  Show Profile  Visit prototype00's Homepage  Send prototype00 an AOL message  Send prototype00 a Yahoo! Message Send prototype00 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by prototype00

Just skimmed the Red Book and its a good resource, and full of relevant stuff about the Vremyonni.

I had a question about how you (Sleyvas) felt about Arcane Trickster Rogues? As far as Vreymonni Training (the background) goes, they do not qualify for it (neither do Eldritch Knight Fighters). How are these males who develop magical talent later in life treated? (I mean, are the divination rituals of the Wychlaran 100% effective?)



My viewpoint on eldritch knights and arcane tricksters that might be sent to the vremyonni would be one in which IF they were to take the vremyonni apprentice background, they would be encouraged/forced to take a level of say wizard first AND encouraged/forced to take the Raumathari Battlemage feat or Ultimate Arcane Trickster feat (from my complete red book of spell strategy, speaking of that, ). If they didn't take that first (or at all), then they are not true vremyonni apprentices, but they could take some other similar background (such as hermit or sage) to simulate being cloistered amongst the running rocks.

For those who would like to JUST be eldritch knights or arcane tricksters without taking the aforementioned feats and multi-classing, I would personally still feel that the witches would still send them to the vremyonni. That being said, the eldritch knights would probably accept that... and the arcane tricksters would probably be a problem as I don't see pure rogues accepting the vremyonni culture. Thus, I see most arcane tricksters as accepting exile in the form of working as spies for the witches in remote territory (thus, they may be allowed to visit their families that they've left behind still, but when they came home they would be "watched", and more than likely such stays would not be extended and if they used magic ... they might incur the wrath of the witches).

As I said earlier, one of the things I see is that a lot of things were written up without some deeper thought put into them throughout the realms. This conversation has helped flesh some of that out. For instance, the idea that there's probably priestly witches living in the running rocks with the vremyonni raising families makes sense, as the vremyonni will still need healers and priestly guidance. Also, these witches would also serve the purpose of making sure that the vremyonni continue to serve the witches, and thus any perceived insubordination would be squashed. The idea that some arcane practictioners would only barely delve their skills and focus mainly on the more masculine fighting is very understandable, and I see them being accepted in the society, but treated as underlings who need guidance by their wizard elite. In fact, there may be just as many eldritch knights (and many of which would pursue the Raumathari Battlemage path) living amongst the vremyonni as there are standard wizards. This is definitely a break from the canon description we're given, but given their culture and that of ancient Raumathar, it makes sense.



Good points on both the Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters. It is of course a saying that "The Cornered Rat will bite the Cat", so I'm sure that in their secluded community, the Witches give the Vremyonni as much good treatment(As you said, some of these Old men might after all be their fathers/grandfathers or at the very least honored Mentors/Instructors) as they are due, while maintaining the status quo with religious instruction/guidance (lots of young male children who have lost all contact with their parents there, if they all grow up under the tutelage of an aged, caring (after all its in private, so they don't have to be cruel or strict) grandmother-like Hathran priestess, then whatever she says is going to have the force of law for most of them.)

Also, if the Vremyonni teach (I guess they teach? After all, besides crafting, what else do they do?) both aspiring young Ethrans and young to-be Old Ones, then yes, of course I foresee a lot of the youthful Shennanigans, and possibly young families forming, quite separate from the mainstream culture of Rashemen proper.

Edited by - prototype00 on 14 Oct 2017 05:26:50
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