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Mindseye
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Oct 2019 : 08:30:06
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So the drow raid the surface to get slaves? Okay, but who buys them, and where do they get the money? Can I assume enough similarity to the surface to handwave it? Do some underdark races participate and some don't?
Who profits?
Follow the money.
Now where does it lead?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2019 : 11:23:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Mindseye
So the drow raid the surface to get slaves? Okay, but who buys them, and where do they get the money? Can I assume enough similarity to the surface to handwave it? Do some underdark races participate and some don't?
Who profits?
Follow the money.
Now where does it lead?
Other drow and illithids, I would assume. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2019 : 12:57:44
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Many raiding parties are sponsored by a House. Those raids the spoils belong to the House. There are independent raiders that would sell slaves to either a merchant House or one of the Priestess House.
As for where the money comes from. Each city has its gold in the Houses that come from in city transactions or are also collected by raiders.
Who buys the slaves are those that have desire and capacity to handle them. Not all Drow own slaves. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2019 : 17:21:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Who buys the slaves are those that have desire and capacity to handle them. Not all Drow own slaves.
And not all slaves will be very valuable. Even if they are good for anything at all. As in, if we talk about prices - economy of whatever-they-are-used-for matters.
Also, vary in need for overseers (who come with more expenses and/or risks).
The dwarves could be good workers, but stubborn, and too much of a headache. A duergar sold by his own may be expensive, but much more tractable.
The elves will not work, just whine until dead, but at least spider-loving priestesses want them for sacrifice.
Humans can't see in the dark.
Halflings are annoying, but at least tend to be better cooks than most.
Now, kobolds or goblins see in the dark, breed fast (thus are cheap), and presumably can maintain performance on less and worse food, so for simple tasks anything else looks suboptimal. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 23 Oct 2019 17:23:25 |
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Mindseye
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2019 : 18:05:10
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Okay slavery is a big part of the economy underground, but is raiding the surface and selling the slaves the only means of generating wealth? Mining, fishing, food production, weapon and goods manufacture, all of these are things that go on in the underdark too, right?
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2019 : 18:18:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Mindseye
So the drow raid the surface to get slaves?
There are drow merchants who are inclined to deal with surfacers -- they'll be primarily interested in things that are more readily available on the surface than they are in the Underdark... surface-race slaves, foods and wines which are seen as exotic by any race of the Underdark, lumber for furniture and inlay work, various paper products, etc.
It seems to me that drow raiders would target the suppliers of such things, to garner more of the profits for themselves.
quote:
Originally posted by Mindseye
Okay, but who buys them, and where do they get the money? Can I assume enough similarity to the surface to handwave it?
Anyone and everyone buys them. As shown in the Menzoberranzan box adventures, even surface races (as well as the obvious Underdark races) make the trip to drow markets to see what's there.
As far as where the money comes from... Underdark communities have economies too.
quote:
Originally posted by Mindseye
Do some underdark races participate and some don't?
Sure. But even among races that don't like or voluntarily trade with drow on a friendly basis --svirfneblin for example-- there are individual exceptions.
Just my opinions. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2019 : 18:20:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Mindseye
Okay slavery is a big part of the economy underground, but is raiding the surface and selling the slaves the only means of generating wealth? Mining, fishing, food production, weapon and goods manufacture, all of these are things that go on in the underdark too, right?
There clearly is farming, moss farms, mushrooms and rothe among others. There is also fishing, hunting, mining and indeed manufacture of weapons and goods. The sale of magic and all such types of activities that take place on the surface, just the goods are different often. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2019 : 03:00:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Mindseye
Okay slavery is a big part of the economy underground, but is raiding the surface and selling the slaves the only means of generating wealth?
It's not a way to make profit at all. If it was, mercenary (between the "real" jobs) and/or merchant organizations would do it too.
It's a way to exchange liability for commodity, optionally also scoring minor political objectives (let a favourite score points, assassinate someone dangerous).
The drow live in caverns. Thus population a city (or a given noble House) can feed is quite limited, and when the pressure raises it's not nice. Colonization is not always possible due to faerzess dependency.
Raiding is their way to cull excess of population that generally selects for those most valuable to the Houses.
Since they also want to get value for their trouble, they raid either
A. their silly cousins: for Lolth's favour or
B. humans/halflings/gnomes: for slaves less stupid and clumsy than goblins, and some random loot. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2019 : 04:01:55
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to add to what TBeholder just said..... they raid either
A. their cousins or other elves: for Lolth's favour or
B. humans/halflings/gnomes or other surface civilized societies: for slaves less stupid or clumsy, which might prove interesting for a brief tryst (thinking more humans here), and some random loot.
C. Surface communities of various sorts for slaves that they can work to death and then feed themselves with. While SOME drow communities might take a dim view on eating intelligent life, I would not say that all do. Certain races will tend to be considered probably less disgusting to eat to dark elves (personally I can see them favoring eating a clean human versus a dirty kobold). Dark elves may favor goblinoids, orcs, ogres, gnolls, troglodytes, minotaurs, quaggoths, etc... as slaves as well for their servants due to the skillsets of such creatures, and these creatures most definitely do not have a problem with eating flesh. In fact, if turned into sausage, etc... humans slaves may not even know that they are cannibalizing their predecessors. Dead slaves might also prove a valuable resource in feeding the animals or plants a drow survive off of (for instance, they may keep a garden that they feeds with dead bodies. They might keep a herd of pigs or wild boar that they captured on the surface and escorted down, feeding them dead slaves and breeding them).
D. surrounding underdark populations (kuo-toa, duergar, svirfneblin, illithids, grimlocks, etc...): to cull the power of their rivals and for resources (in the form of meat, crops, water, land, or various commodities in either physical or intellectual form).
E. Stock for creating undead to again turn around and use as slaves or soldiers in extremely dangerous environments that they wouldn't tend to use the living in.
So, a human female taken on the surface may be taken and sold into a brothel. While she's still young and beautiful, she may be abused sexually for a few years by dark elves. When she's less beautiful, the brothel may still keep her about for perverts amongst the drow mercenary races. This may result in things like half-orcs that can turn around and become slaves as well. The brothel may then sell said slave to a drow mining consortium after a few years, who sends her in to work the mine. When she dies, her dead body is sold to the school of magic or the priesthood of Lolth for reanimation OR its used as meat to feed their other slaves, mercenaries, or visitors to their cities. Select portions (such as the brain) may even be traded to other races such as visiting illithids in a marketplace, who may pay premium prices to eat still living individuals who are proving no longer useful to the community.
I know this isn't a rather healthy minded conversation, but when discussing the underdark one must think in dark ways that our societies would consider taboo. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 24 Oct 2019 04:14:53 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2019 : 23:06:36
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
C. Surface communities of various sorts for slaves that they can work to death and then feed themselves with. While SOME drow communities might take a dim view on eating intelligent life, I would not say that all do.
[...]
Dead slaves might also prove a valuable resource in feeding the animals or plants a drow survive off of (for instance, they may keep a garden that they feeds with dead bodies. They might keep a herd of pigs or wild boar that they captured on the surface and escorted down, feeding them dead slaves and breeding them).
[...]
E. Stock for creating undead
There are much easier ways to introduce more biomass into tunnels or animate a bunch of skeletons than military action against a defended community (even small scale). Like hunt/fishing/cattle theft and scavenging battle sites/pilfering backwater cemeteries, respectively.
As another incidental bonus, sure.
quote:
D. surrounding underdark populations (kuo-toa, duergar, svirfneblin, illithids, grimlocks, etc...):
Underdark-on-Underdark raids seem to be mostly skirmishing for borders or resources, and some for slaves already adapted to the same environment, yes. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2019 : 23:36:40
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I work under the assumption that instead of a solar based economy, it's Faerzress based.
I'm guessing that some forms of fungus then feeds off them, then something like rothe eats the fungi and then more monstrous critters eat the rothe.
If there should be a most common creature that ends up populating the majority of the underdark, it would be the humble goblin.
Since they breed quickly and die by the scores, I'd imagine most slaves of the underdark are goblins.
Surface raiding would be for vanity, ransoms and needing skilled niches.
(that and I imagine goblin brains taste aweful by mind flayer standards) |
check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com |
Edited by - shades of eternity on 24 Oct 2019 23:40:04 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2019 : 01:26:52
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| I'd agree with this presumption that one of the most common slaves is goblinoid. One of the things I always thought funny with Thay was that they always showed their slaves to be humans, and while I can see a good portion of them being punished humans, etc... I actually venture that they had a lot of goblins, orcs, gnolls, etc... as slaves in those environments that were particularly dangerous (such as the mines, etc...). I often pictured other communities in "enlightened" areas around the sea of fallen stars being willing to capture local goblinoids and sell them to slavers, because they just consider them less than human beings as well as a nuisance. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2019 : 10:28:18
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
It's not a way to make profit at all. If it was, mercenary (between the "real" jobs) and/or merchant organizations would do it too.
It's a way to exchange liability for commodity, optionally also scoring minor political objectives (let a favourite score points, assassinate someone dangerous).
The drow live in caverns. Thus population a city (or a given noble House) can feed is quite limited, and when the pressure raises it's not nice. Colonization is not always possible due to faerzess dependency.
Raiding is their way to cull excess of population that generally selects for those most valuable to the Houses.
Since they also want to get value for their trouble, they raid either
A. their silly cousins: for Lolth's favour or
B. humans/halflings/gnomes: for slaves less stupid and clumsy than goblins, and some random loot.
I really like the idea of raids as a way to reduce drow population in the city. That make so much sense.
As for the slave race I agree there will be mostly goblins for said reasons. Then they would need some brute force so smaller amount of ogres, trolls, grimlocks, ... and then there is a pleasure - elves, humans, drow, ...
Money goes mainly to circulate within the city as each location is basically a city-state. Then some to mutually beneficial neighbors who they trade with. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2019 : 11:14:16
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| I think raids on surface elves aren't just about Lolth's favor... They also serve as a sort of reminder of who the "enemy" is, and they allow for a release of aggression without other drow being the target. So it's also about controlling drow society. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2019 : 06:24:02
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quote:
Originally posted by shades of eternity
I work under the assumption that instead of a solar based economy, it's Faerzress based.
That's just an energy input to the Underdark ecosystems. It allows the fungi to live on little else, but doesn't turn stone floor into humus, etc.
Refuse can and needs to be recycled via fungi/slimes/crawlies into edible fungi, cattle and fish. But that's not lossless, so influx of living matter is a good thing.
Which is another reason why spiders and other settled carnivores are useful.
quote:
I'm guessing that some forms of fungus then feeds off them, then something like rothe eats the fungi and then more monstrous critters eat the rothe.
And lots of worms and insects (what all those spiders eat?) and slimes, whether gnawing on fungi or scavenging.
quote:
If there should be a most common creature that ends up populating the majority of the underdark, it would be the humble goblin.
Since they breed quickly and die by the scores, I'd imagine most slaves of the underdark are goblins.
And kobolds for the jobs that require skill and/or manual dexterity, but not much strength. Also, they are small, thus probably need little food. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Underdark econ 101
